pericles

I think you missed my point. Surely we should treat people the same, the guy who fixes tractors in a rural town is as much in the "brown stuff" as the farmer up the road yet he gets the same treatment as a surf bum in byron bay.

80% of Australia's agricultural produce is exported. In PF's case he/she grows barley. I assume the majority of this goes to feed lots to fatten cattle for export.

I am not saying farmers should not get help, but maybe they should look at how others are treated and have some sympathy for others who have their own exceptional circumstances.

Ok to add my 5c worth, which will take more then 1 post :)

Once again this is not a black and white debate, but many
shades of gray. A farmer needs to be in drought for 2 years,
to receive anything. I actually agree that some interest rate
subsidies are going to the wrong people. Its the farmers who
bought the most machinery, the most next door farms at the
highest prices, who did not put away for a rainy day etc.
They have the highest debts, the more conservate, smaller
farmers often the least, so don't get those subsidies.

A question: Steve, if I own a house in the city, can I still
receive the dole? After how many weeks of no income, can
I receive it?

Next point: If Graham wants the free market to operate ok,
but let it be free. Nobody can predict droughts very accurately
yet, but many farmers have gone broke, trying to feed too many
livestock through droughts. Processors make a killing from
droughts, as with limited slaughter capacity, farmers having
to sell, they are caught between a rock and a hard place
and have to accept whatever price is offered. Many try to
feed through, which is their mistake. Yet any meatworks could
double capacity by adding another shift, so increasing demand,
which would lift prices to farmers. The only thing holding that
back is Govt legislation, limiting Filipino and Chinese workers
being flown in for a few months. So Govt policy is one reason
for farmers needing subsidies. Free up the market as you claim
to believe and there would be no need!

Graham Y, busy arterial metropolitan roads earn their keep. You've got to be kidding. For those roads to earn their keep, first of all the bl@@dy city has to earn its keep.
If it weren't for the taxes pooring into the city, to pay for the public servants, & their offices, the major hospitals, the major education institutions, & the publicly funded cultural industry, the city would collapse.
Where do those taxes come from? Try mining & agriculture, & tourism. Even a large percentage of the private sector jobs are riding on the back of products produced in the bush.
Now you not only want our water, you want to have its provision to be subsidised by the Connanwealth.
I can imagine what you would say if your tap was dry. How much louder would you yell if you still had to pay your water rates, even though the tap was dry.
I'm crazy you say? A mate,[farmer] of mine has paid $15,000 a year, irrigation charges, for the last 2 years, but has not recieved one bl@@dy drop of water. Some subsidy

PF,

Good to see someone actually affected come in on the discussion. We hear a lot of opion from you blokes about how the city slickers don't have a clue about your problems. Well, old son, that works both ways, I'm afraid. I was brought up in the country, and worked in the family business. I remember very well how farmers thought they had special priviledges that the non-farming community did not have when it came to paying their bills - IN GOOD TIMES. You seem to think that, still.

You need to come to grips with the real world the rest of us have always lived in. If you can't cut the mustard in farming, you need to try something else. Farming is now a riskier business than it ever was. The good managers will survive. It sounds as though you will not, without taxpayer funded welfare.

Pericles, the argument isn't about having farming and not having farming, it is about who gets to operate the farms. When you sell most farms, it is to another farmer. PF your confusing personal assets with business assets. If the farmer wants to sell everything but the home paddock and then go and look for a job, I have no problem with them getting the dole.

Yabby, I suspect your argument assumes that demand for beef is completely elastic and that if there is twice the beef available at half the price we will eat twice as much beef per capita. It doesn't operate like that, so increasing the number of abbatoirs isn't going to solve the farmers' problem. Having said that, I've got some sympathy with the proposition that we ought to allow temporary immigrants from the South Pacific to work here. It will help our labour shortage, their need for income, and probably stabilise some of their societies, giving them a better standard of living, and improving our security.

Hasbeen, what would you do without the cities? Who would you sell your produce to and through, and who would provide you with the goods that you consume? I know that farmers often say the city dwellers are parasites on them, but man cannot live on bread alone, or beef. We all contribute to this country.

Graham, I'm only from the bush, I was not bl@@dy silly enough to even think about making a living on the land. I was a production engineer. I only bought a farm after I retired, & do not expect it to earn more than the rates.
The farmer has somehow missed his share of the wealth enjoyed by most Australians.
When I worked for General Motors, the income from selling 7 cows would buy a new ute. You've got to sell 25 now to get that new ute.
I went through uni with a kid from a dairy. They milked 75 cows, & supported three families, with 3 kids at uni. Although they worked hard, it was not an efficient farm.
My neighbour milks 170 cows, on an incredibly well run farm. He is struggling to support his wife & child, & his parents. His father works as hard as any young farmer, on the farm.
I could go on, but if you don't get the idea, you never will. The silly farmer is subsidising us with cheep food, & is being ripped off by the system, nationally, & internationally. Look at the mark up on bananas after the cyclone, by the large chains, who held stock bought cheeply.
I think it must be some type of genetic disease that makes them do it, & I was lucky to have only a mild case myself, which I could resist. Just be glad their out there, earning the export income to pay for your computer, TV, radio, etc. I used to make them, but now we import the lot.
Cut them a bit of slack in the worst times, they never have it realy good these days.