The Total Christ

Peter Sellick and “Waterboy” agree that Pierre Teilhard SJ (1881-1955) “does not represent mainstream theology.” I asked “Where is mainstream theology?” and “Who are mainstream theologians?” Waterboy said Teilhard is “more of a `scientific’ mystic than a theologian. He is therefore widely misunderstood.” Gifted mystics or spiritual “seers” of all times, places and traditions tend to speak the same language because they have been to the same country.[1] They have at least caught a glimpse of the Promised Land – the Inner Kingdom also known as the “Secret Garden”, the “Garden of Eden”, God’s own “Little Acre”, “Paradise” or “Wonderland.”

Every servant girl in Jerusalem 2000 years ago knew that Jesus came from Nazareth. With all his Army Intelligence, Pontius Pilate would have known no less. But the Roman Governor was inspired to probe more deeply and ask “Where DO you come from?” (John 19:9).

It seems that Saul of Tarsus was in Jerusalam, studying under Gamaliel, but knew nothing of Jesus between the events of the first Christian Palm Sunday and the first Christian Pentecost. Arraigned between the Sanhedrin, Stephen’s face was angelic (Acts 6:15). Finally he said, “I see the heavens thrown open and the Son of Man at the right hand of God!” Rushed out of the city and being stoned to death, Stephen fell to his knees and asked God not to hold that sin against his executioners. Saul became caught up in the Anti-Christian hysteria and was soon on his way to Damascus to bring back to Jerusalem any followers of the Way of Christ that he could find. Reflecting on recent events, the Voice of Conscience suddenly seemed to be saying, “Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?” He began to sense the real presence of Christ in his followers. He too asked “Where do you come from?” and was led not so much to the “Jesus of History” [recent history] as to the “History of Jesus” which extends from before the beginning [15 billion years ago?] to beyond the end of time. That is the TOTAL Christ.

Dear Roch,

Thank you for this thread - and for arguing your case so beautifully.
It brought a lump to my throat.

We cannot prove everything in the Bible. The New Testament is almost 2,000 years old. The real Jesus lived 2,000 years ago. There are limitations to what one can know through historical inquiry.

People are still in sharp disagreement over events which happened within the lifetime of many of us such as the assassination of President John F. Kennedy or the accidental death of Princess Diana.

How much more so is it going to be difficult to speak conclusively concerning a person who lived 2,000 years ago.

But while the limitations of history do not allow us to speak absolutely, they do not prevent our speaking of possibilites and probabilities.

I cannot prove the virgin birth of Jesus through historical analysis,
but someone else cannot disprove it using the same method.

Again, Thank-You for presenting this subject on this Forum.

Cheers.

Sorry to butt in, but surely science can prove that female mammals cannot give birth if they have not had sex, and surely science can prove that this has been consistent throughout history? I don't know, but I'd imagine.

Not that I can see that it makes any difference. If you could prove it was possible, it wouldn't be a miracle, right? So doesn't it have to be impossible?

Or perhaps this is why I could never be a Christian. No good at theology.

What are you writing Vanilla? Do not you know that religious people can believe anything about their religious? Their right. Unfortunately I can not believe anything non logic, anything that contrary to sciences. But this is mine problem, my personal weakness. I do not have the charisma to believe the extraordinary religious stories. Sorry, that's me!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

What an inspring opening post. *amen*

Each post thus far has expressed doubt, if not total disbelief.

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Dear Vanilla,

The term "Virgin Conception" has long been one of Christianity's foundational beliefs - along with the inerrancy of the Bible; God's inspiration of the authors of the Bible, the Atonement, Resurrection, and the anticipated second coming of Jesus...

Of course there are no known cases of mammalian parthenogenesis in the wild. (In April 2004, scientists at Tokyo University of Agriculture used parthenogenesis successfully to create a fatherless mouse). In theory, artificial human parthenogenesis could be used to reproduce humans, but this is highly unlikely due to ethical concerns.

The use of an electrical or chemical stimulus can produce the beginning of the process of parthenogenesis in the sexual development of viable offspring.

Hans Kung in, "On Being a Christian," tells us - "Although the virgin birth cannot be understood as a historical - biological event, it can be regarded as a meaningful symbol at least for that time."