"Maybe we can learn something from it ?"

I think so. I think in really investigating the "love the sin, hate the sinner" philosophy, we can pinpoint where Christianity has led the west ethically astray all these centuries. It is an absurd dualism that stands in opposition to compassionate understanding. It is a fundamentally immoral point of view. It says, "I hate the way you've acted and I'll punish you without mercy, but, to avoid looking at my own prejudice and hatred, I pay lip service to the integrity of your invisible, immortal soul."

It's a way of avoiding delving deep into the psyche of people who don't fit in, people who do bad things, people who challenge us by making choices we would not. If you're a Christian, you don't have to stretch your great, elastic mind into contortions that might give you cramps. You can simply hate, then forgive yourself for hating, by loving. By loving in theory.

Better, I believe, to look deep in the eyes of someone who scares you, and say, this will be hard, but bring it on.

Dear Vanilla,

Well - you got to me even more so this time. Your last sentence actually brought tears to my eyes.

You are truly magnificent - and I take my hat off to you.

Wish there were more like you...

Dear Vanilla,

Your last sentence actually brought tears to my eyes.

You are truly magnificent - and I take my hat off to you.

Wish there were more like you on this Forum.

Foxy and Vanilla thankyou for that.
I regard Homophobia on a par with racism.
Alas David Jesus would be turning over in his grave if he read any of your posts.
Desmond Tutu has always been a great man unheralded but in the same ilk as Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King.
Hate can only be erased through education unfortunately the bible needs to be updated to bring it closer to the 21st century.
Gays, Transexuals and Transvestites are mostly kind and generous folk it is up to Society to recognise that they should not be ridiculed and if they chose to be who they are then so be it. It was amusing that the President of Iran said that there are no Homsexuals in Iran. Who would dare to confess that they are shades of Germany 1935 to 1945.

Err Vanilla... you misquoted that saying its "Love the sinner... hate the sin"

Our legal system is based on that.

The Christian concept of 'Love the sinner, but not the sin' is one which DOES look deeper than the outward symptom of specific behavior. In fact, it is much deeper than you think. It means that we don't hammer into a person who did the wrong thing, simply basing our actions on what they did. We try to look deeper.. 'why'.. 'what's going on inside'?

Our diagnosis is that most people do wrong things because they are alientated from the Creator. (medical/mental illness issues aside)

So, to correctly assess a persons actions b4 the Law.. all those things are looked at. Guilty or innocent, people are still creations of God, and thus His grace is open for them. The key (for those of sound mind) is repentance.

Julie.. sorry, but I must know a different set of 'gays' than you do. The ones I see are at the mardi gras.. flouting their way of life, ridiculing (illegally) Fred Nile and the Church generally.. and basically 'in your face' with there lifestyle.. I recall at least one occasion when the mardi Gras finished with a huge sex orgy at some stadium.. only one word for it.. disgusting!

So.. I have an alternative offer.. the Gays can catch up with a sexual practice that is in line with their created purpose. Man..penis.. Woman..vagina.. designed...for each other. Get the mind to match the body. There are many things in life that where we deny what we think are our natural inclinations for the sake of social/moral harmony and compliance with the law. Dogs wag tails..not tails wag dogs.
Men can love men..and women can love woman-platonically..but SEX with the same gender is deviant and sinful.

..and Julie, please don't presume to know the mind of Jesus better than he himself as expressed in his own words. Remember when the rich man came to Jesus asking "What must I do to have eternal life?" Jesus said "You know the commandments"...

The Church is there to promote the nature of God and his creational principles. If we are to condone sins against God in the Church then the Church has no role in the World. The Church promotes purity from sins and social evils that destroy society. We are to love and respect all persons but we do not condone their base behaviours without a sincere repentance [abandoning their sin]. If people are merely looking for acceptance and secure emotional relationships in ways not designed by God then the Church cannot accept such and pretend it is approved by God.