A TEENAGE girl's decision to tell her father she was converting from Islam to Christianity sparked a stabbing frenzy that left her mother dead and her father critically injured.

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20566159-2702,00.html

Sharia law in Australia?

obozo, did you read the whole article? Further down, a local imam pointed out:

"In certain Third World countries they have honour killings, but it has nothing to do with Islam. If a girl chooses to become a Christian, that is her choice and there are no sharia killings in this country."

and

"If (Dr Hussain) did kill his wife then that is absolutely un-Islamic and he is regarded as a murderer in Islam."

Your suggestion that the murder illustrates the advent of sharia law in Australia is not supported by facts, only by your prejudices.

I wish to offer one small correction to the article in the SMH.

They stated that the law about killing an apostate comes from the Quran, but in fact it is from the Hadith.

Here is the main treatment of the subject in various hadith and a discussion of the Quranic references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Hadith_reference

Best to read them for a comprehensive understanding.

One thing should be underlined:

ALL FOUR of the major schools of Islamic Law agree that death is the punishment for apostacy. Scary stuff.

Given the above point. It becomes clear that Islam as a religion and Muslims as people (if they are true to their traditions) are totally incompatable with Australian, Western and particularly Christian values.

While it might seem reasonable to accept the idea that most Muslims are 'moderate' and thus basically compatable, it is also born out by experience that when the pressure is on over faith and compatability issues, moderate Muslims tend to entrench themselves and dig in to the fundamentals of their faith.

It is at this point where the true incompatability emerges.

The Cronulla riots demonstrate this. Polarazation of the communities saw instances where on National TV a Muslim counsellor stated that the Muslim youths:
a) Felt superior to Australian
b) Hated Western values.

Others who were interviewed during the period, who appeared to be just ordinary people, but who were involved in the Maroubra revenge attacks, made statements like "They (aussies) have insulted Allah"

The actions of this man, represent the most fundamental but faithful approach to this incompatable faith.
Many people may start as 'moderates' but when community tension rises, end up as 'fundamentalists.

(with the noted exception of our resident Muslim crusader F.H. :)

This violence is tradgic and I feel for all concerned. The media does not say if the girl has any siblings or how they would view her.

The only thing that can be done to limit the gross violations of our culture, is to ensure that all future migrants are fully conversant with our cultural norms and the limits permitted to other cultures.

A tradgic end to a family that contributed to the well being of Australia.

Pericles,

You seem ignorant of Apostasy in Islam.

Check this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Find more testimonials at : http://www.faithfreedom.org/testimonials.htm

In islam, if anyone converts to another religion, he/she has to be killed and if any muslim girl marries a non-muslim boy, she should be killed. (ofcourse, muslim boys are free to marry non-muslim girls and convert them to islam).

July 20, 2006

Special Report - UK: Killing For Muslim "Honor"
Between 1993 and 2001, there have been 109 cases of so-called "honour killings" in Britain...

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002608.html

According to police reports, every year, 5000 women are murdered under the pretext of Honour Killing in Britain. This is just the tip of the iceberg. It is more than the innocent victims of international terrorism.

http://www.wpiraq.net/english/icahk251103.htm

obozo,
I have a feeling that developments in this story may be shelved by the major media.

will you, or any other person that is in a position to do so, keep this thread informed of future developments.

I have been a regular holiday visiter to Bali for many years. One of my sons has a Balinese wife and son and they live there. I have many friends, from various backgrounds, who either go to Bali regularly and/or live there. Although about 90% of Balinese, like my daughter-in-law, are Hindu, the other 10% are about equally divided between Muslim and Christian, with a fair number of Buddhists. There are also many Muslim and Christian people, from various Indonesian islands, working in Bali, mainly in the tourist industry.

Almost all of them get on very well indeed. The small number of Islamic trouble makers, who come from elsewhere, are small minority exceptions. The terrorists were recently described by a Muslim tour driver to one of my friends as "bloody idiots" and that's how most Indonesians would see them.

One of my English born friends lives in Bali and works for a tourist organisation. His wife is a Muslim girl from predominantly Muslim Java. We were at their house a while ago for a bar-b-que. Her and her sister were dressed in tops and jeans, just like young women from most cultures. Her father, who lives in Java, likes a drink [of alcohol] and doesn't see the need to hide the fact. One of her aunts, also living in Java, has converted to Christianity and is still a normal part of the family.

Indonesia has a number of religious extremists and some of them are in parliament [just like in Australia]. Again, just like in Australia, some of the unrepresentative ones sometimes try to force some ridiculous restrictions through parliament. This often leads to public demonstrations opposing such restrictions, which would include moderate Muslims.

Some people would try to tell us that genuinely moderate Muslims cannot exist. I suspect that most of those who think this way are either extremist Christians or Jews, or aren't aware of the realities in some societies.

Good to hear that Rex. Indonesia is a lovely country and has fascinating people. One of the guys from our church rolled up this morning with an Indonesian girl he met in Celebes. I yapped away at her in Indonesian and she was quite surprised, getting a bit tongue tied trying to say 'The day before yesterday' in English when asked 'When did you arrive'....

The Muslims in minority are more docile than those in majority. Even in majority it is in turn a minority of them.. on the extreme end of the spectrum who cause the trouble.

I would point out though, that the "Islam" of most Indonesians is pretty nominal.. kind of like Aussies who goto church at Christmas and Easter only. (or weddings and funerals).

Pericles should have got the hint by now with 2 of us giving him the same link about apostacy.
Cheers all.

Religious law, my foot.
We saw this with the Greeks in this country, where they were so against the females marrying outside of the Greek tribe that they would marry them off to some really old Greek rather than a young Australian. Of course they were not quite so strict with their sons maybe sowing a few wild oats amongst the other tribe but they still preferred them to marry “a nice Greek Girl.”

This is out and out racism or rather tribalism, cloaked in the usual justifying religious idealogy.

Any ethnic group that would go to such lengths as murder to stop their children marrying into the other ethnic groups in their adopted country is extremely dangerous to the peace of that country in the longer term.

The Muslims may think that they are unique in history with this kind of behaviour but this strong tribal reaction to children marrying outside of their tribe has been going on forever. I saw a Jewish mother in Sydney in a documentary not long ago collapse into her chair in anguished disapproval when one of her sons became engaged to an Australian girl. She was devastated.

These honour killings have been part of history before too,with girls being killed for marrying outside of their tribes. HONOUR?
RUBBISH! Just plain simple human racism.

Boaz, smug is not a good look.

>>Pericles should have got the hint by now with 2 of us giving him the same link about apostacy.<<

It is not for me to discern which interpretation of Islamic law the imam selected in order to make his point. But frankly, in my world, when it comes to issues of religion, I prefer to side with the opinions of members of the religion in question over those of members of an opposing - and openly hostile - religion such as Boaz'.

I have much the same problem with people who have never played cricket in their lives making critical observations on the game. While they have every right to their opinion, I will always listen more closely to someone who has played the game professionally for many years.

The link that you and obozo kindly provided shows "apostasy is punishable by death" is only one line of thought.

"However, there are also some scholars that reject Mawdudi's interpretation. S. A. Rahman in ( Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, Institute of Islamic Culture, Lahore, l972, pp. 10-13 ) concluded "that not only is there no punishment for apostasy provided in the Book but that the Word of God clearly envisages the natural death of the apostate. He will be punished only in the Hereafter...." (p. 54)

He continues and says that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an."

As so often, Boaz, you choose the angle that suits your "religious cleansing" view, where Islam is evil and your particular version of Christianity can do no wrong.

No civilized country condones this type of behaviour. It is noticeable that in every one of the UK cases obozo pointed to that has corroborration, the perpetrator received the appropriate sentence from the courts.

While obozo hints obliquely at "Sharia law in Australia?", it is clear that the UK still retains the life sentence for murder, with religion forming no part of the judgement. I expect we will do the same.

Obozo,

Honour killing is tribalism and religion can be used as catalyst. Here are simple verifiable examples:

Mediterranean countries such as south of Italy (a non-Mulsim country as you may figure) honour killing is nicknamed by the media as 'italian divorce'. The case is similar in many African countries and among Christian arabs.

PS: I quoted no link so you can google 'honour killing' and do your own homework.

Boazy,

A 'poisoned' nugget as usual in your half-baked half-truth does of facts on Islam.

Apostacy in Islam is referred to a hadith by the prophet although many other hadith quote the prophet of not pursuing it (ie the Arab who converted back to paganism the next day and the story of the Christian man who reverted and wanted to forcefully revert his two children).

I am unsure why is it pursued if it conflicts with the Qu'ran but I am no expert. The issue with the hadith that is being collected a century or more after the prophet's (pbuh) death. I am reluctant on the over reliance on hadith as its is proven neither the prophet nor the caliphs wanted to collect it. The prophet wanted Muslims to focus on the message only (the Qu'ran) as per his famous warning 'do not glorigy me like what what the nasara (Followers of Christ) did with Jesus the son Of Mary'. I guess I will stop there because you are a living proof of 'over glorifying a prophet' :):)

why shouldnt she?

Fellow_Human,

where are you? So, you say the Italian mafia kill their daughters when they marry males of other gangs.. In other words, islam = italian mafia?

Now, go and ask the sheik what's his view?

There's no doubt Sheik was speaking about sydney gang rapes.

Now, let's look at the girl who was raped:

18-year-old white girl, was raped 25 times by up to 14 muslim men including Skaf in 2000, was being Australian.

What was her dress?
A typical dress suited for job-interview. (may be a skirt which exposed the meat (legs) to a small extent.

What was she doing?
Sitting on a train, dressed for a job interview in her best suit, and reading The Great Gatsby.

What did the rapist(s) say during rape?
she was a slut, an "Aussie pig" as they called her later, while boasting: "I'm going to f--- you Leb style."

What did the the father of rapist(s) say?
"What do they expect to happen to them? Girls from Pakistan don't go out at night."

What did Sheik Feiz Mohammad say about that?
A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world," Sheik Feiz Mohammad told 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall last year. "Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world ... strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses."

what did Sheik Hilaly say during that ramadan sermon?

"A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years."

My goodness!!

obozo, time for some retraction.

The matter still has to come to court but your claims that the male did the killing don't appear to match the current official version. The girl has been charged.

Does this suggest that christains are murderous villians or rather that human beings have their failings regardless of what faith they hold to?

Time for an apology - are you up to it?

R0bert