Are the cola companies in some way responsible for the great increase in juvenile crime?
Is Caffeine the quiet enemy in a violent society?
A guy gets out of his car and punches someones lights out then gets back in his car and drives off.
Yes, it was a hot day and the traffic was quite heavy but what other factors might have been involved?
Ever since he was a kid, a very little kid, the guys diet has included a million litres each year of either coke or pepsie or some other brand of cola. As he grew he graduated onto coffee, coffee doubles were common. He never sleeps any more than a few hours at night and always... is he on edge. Always is he ready to punch those lights out, at a moments notice.
So what is Caffeine doing to the kids? Is it making them wild animals and beasts as they grow?
Are we more violent today, because of the great increase in Caffeine use, than we were several decades ago?
Mum and dad wouldnt let us kids get into tea or coffee until we were about 11 or 12 years old.
Are kids getting onto it early?
Are the major cola companies accountable for much of the great increase in juvenile crime?
Should cops test for Caffeine in order to bring the crime rate back under control?

Gibo, an interesting question. A brief browse of the web suggest that
the evidence for the impacts of caffeine on behaviour are still not well understood. Some summary work at

http://books.google.com/books?id=uZaaCk-8s9sC&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=caffine+agressive+juvenile&source=web&ots=UZnpLjsPrq&sig=sJgh5nhNjWpiMb4OuVQbnmuA2y4

and http://books.google.com/books?id=uZaaCk-8s9sC&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=caffine+agressive+juvenile&source=web&ots=UZnpLjsPrq&sig=sJgh5nhNjWpiMb4OuVQbnmuA2y4

Overall what I've seen on a brief skim seems to suggest that caffeine increases aggressive behaviour in male rats but may reduce aggressive behaviour in humans.

As for the impact of childhood usage I've not seen much yet. I try to stop my son using caffeine based drinks, I don't see them as a good thing for kids but I'm undecided on the aggressive factor.

R0bert

Thanks RObert. Handy references.
I drink coffee and occasionally ordinary tea. Madura makes a good 0.3% decaf. My problem is that the coffee goes down good (it is a happy juice) but about 6-10 hours later I can be edgy. I limit myself to generally about 2 or 3 in the morning. Then none after that time.
Everywhere I go I see school kids with coke in their hands and I wonder about the increase in assaults and how it might effect studies and sleep.
It sure has got to be an extremely aggressive society in the last two decades or so and there has to be another cause, it seems to me, other than an increase in the rat race.

I gave up coffee for a year to see if it would help with my insomnia. It didn't, though I still limit myself to a cup or less a day, and I'm not all that big on cola.

I don't think caffeine can really be blamed for much violence... it may contribute a miniscule amount to those who are already aggressive, but I think it would be exceptionally unlikely that it was the tipping point.

That being said, it's quite possibly a cause of hyperactivity in kids, and I wouldn't know whether it's a possible contributor to ADHD.

The fault, dear Cassius, lies not in our stars
But in ourselves.

Don't blame it on caffeine, blame it on sheer bad manners. We now tolerate the sort of rubbish in public behaviour that would have had juveniles flogged in my great-grandfather's time, as in Singapore today. It starts young, in schools, where teachers are no longer allowed to give stroppy young men of 14-18 the good thrashing they sometimes richly deserve. Manners can be taught in the home, but schools need to be alowed to back up the teaching with a good dose of fear if need be. Counselling delinquent juveniles is laughable. They grow up to be delinquent adults, if not rude ones.

It is an interesting ponderance Gibo.

I am inclined to think that caffeine is not a major factor in aggressive or antisocial behaviour. But I do think that alcohol is. I reckon it changes brain chemistry and tends to make people more depressed, angry, edgy, less tolerant, etc.

But the really big factor in juvenile crime, road-rage and so on is the chronic lack of effective policing.

The sort of mentality that leads to these law infringements has always been with us. It’s a fundamental part of human nature. A good portion of the populace will assert their sense of dominance or aggression, and will steal or assault if they think they can get away with it.

This is primaeval. Look at the way chimpanzees or other apes and monkeys behave….and all manner of other creatures down the evolutionary line.

We need to understand the nature of... well, human nature... and of animal nature.

We can't change it. So what we really need is a much more effective rule of law. And this necessitates a much more effective police force.

I agree, Gibo, there is definitely a link between diet and behaviour.

Some people in particular are sensitive to sugar, and this affects their brain chemistry and as a result their mood and how they behave. Western countries nowadays consume massive amounts of sugar - about twenty times as much per person compared to early last century. Factor in chemicals, processed foods, depleted soils etc and it is no wonder the food we eat today is proving toxic.

After becoming quite unwell myself, I discovered that I was one of the many people who are sugar sensitive and have since done a fair bit of research to find answers. Changing my diet has made an enormous difference. I see daily the links between what I eat and how I feel and function. I am completely convinced about the links between food and mood.

The following website is a good place to start if anyone else is interested in further researching this area.

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/

Im with you HenryVIII.
A school teacher friend tells nightmare stories of what goes on with teenage thugs, male and female, abusing teachers in NSW highschools. There needs to be a Royal Commission. The system is collapsing. The cane has to come back; and I believe it will when youth crime gets so incredibly out of control they are forced to do it. No pansy mind games with kids in those days. I think the birch will return as will capital punishment.
If we read 2 Timothy 3 (click on it)...we can see where it going.
I have a prophecy from a powerful pentecostal pastor, a real used by God man of God, that says there is a day coming when there will be an invader in the northern part of Australia and crime will be so out of control police will be shooting people for minor offences...(from "WHAT WILL BECOME OF AUSTRALIA" by pastor Jack Burrell). That, to me, is where crime and reaction to crime is going. If you want to read about the invader try http://steakface.wordpress.com/2007/07/26conversation-with-a-fundamentalist/
Warning though... its got heavy information in it you may not want to know about.
Ludwig. Your right about alcohol. I lost a wonderful career because of alcohol (Im out of the rotten drug now as a born again Christian). No sooner was I out of the training than I was in with a bunch of wayward, alcohol co-workers and down I went over the next four years. Alcohol is so readily accepted in this country...I dont think we can do much about it but help those who want to recover to recover and perhaps warn the kids as they grow up. My answer is lead them to Jesus Christ and let Him deal with it. This is how I got set free as did many other born again christians. "He came to set us free".

Thanks Bronwyn.
The truth is I dont know what Im eating anymore. All I know, as a Christian, is that its not the fresh, unpolluted fruits, nuts and vegetables Adam and Eve were eating in the Garden at Eden (yep...I truly believe this part of Gods Word. The Book of Genesis is a brilliant description of the beginning).
The chemical companies are killing us. They know it but the money is more important. Death by increment, increment, increment is what the spraying is doing.
Im glad The Lord is coming back.
If He tarries... time for the earth I would say would be down to less than 100 years anyway. If the crime doesnt get us, the wars will (they are spreading like wildfire) or the chemicals will.

That conversation with a fundamentalist can be taken up by clicking on the far right column on wordpress.

Its possible that caffine can create reactions in people , the only way we could study it is have police take blood tests when booking road ragers and other naughty people.

I noticed that my children became naughty when they got tired. The wife gets abrasive when she is tired, office workers get coarse in the afternoons after being on the computer and phone all day wether they drink coffee or soft drinks or not. Shop keepers are not so smiley in the afternoon, Shift workers are especially narky, car accidents mainly minor prangs peak at peak hour when the otherwise astute driver becomes weary. I suspect the problem is that we are an over tired society.

Most of us can handle it, a few people get tipped over the edge and over tiredness leads to depression and other psychological problems. I notice that road ragers are without exception immature. If a driver has the mind of a child and is overtired , then watchout. Courts perhaps should set a 7.30 bed time for road ragers so they dont get so tired and grumpy. Or perhaps Tv stations and the internet should close at ten, or business should operate in sensible hours, or something constructive. Or perhaps we should accept we are on the road to nowhere and get on with it.

West

I agree, tiredness is a factor in poor mood control, and many of us frequently get a lot less sleep than the optimum 7-8 hours these days. I would argue though that poor diet is a bigger contributor to the problem.

I don't suffer from the afternoon slump any more. I used to be very dependent on coffee to give me a lift but don't miss it at all now. Eating small amounts of protein and low GI foods every few hours is the key to sustaining energy and mood levels. This, along with eliminating and/or cutting right back on sugar, alcohol and caffeine and eating quality and natural foods over junk and processed as much as possible. Nutritional supplementation can be required as well and has probably been another factor in my health turnaround. Lack of sleep still affects me but nothing like it used to.

I am, perhaps wrongly, a bit cynical when people start blaming their
problems, on something other than themsalves.

I spent a few years playing with boats, those fairly big ones that carted 200, or 300 tourists around the barrier reef.
We worked 10/11 hour days, with one 17 hour day each week. Through the peak season [5/6 months] we rarely had more than 2 days off, per month.

Up in my wheel house, prattling away with my commentary, I always had a coke, or a coffee by my elbow. I averaged at least 12 a day, & more on the 17 hour day. All were caffeine, & sugar.

I have never gone to bed so early, or slept so well, as I did then. Those long days are very tiring, as is all that fresh air. Just check the tourists, coming back to port on an outer reef trip, 70% will be asleep.

I was also neither stressed, or aggressive, so I am either a superior being, [who should be cloned for the good of society], or, blaming these things for our problems, is just a prop for those who are struggling.

I reckon Gibo's on to something here. CAFFEINE was planted on Earth by SATAN to lead people into HELLFIRE and ETERNAL DAMNATION!

The proof is all those latte-sipping COMMOS and ATHEISTS you see lurking around those coffee shops that are springing up everywhere.

CJ, you've convinced me.

Lets stamp out caffeine, & save all gods children.

You know what else is often seen in those coffee houses, CJ?
.......Books!
That's a dead giveaway of Satans influence, that is.

Hasbeen

"I am, perhaps wrongly, a bit cynical when people start blaming their
problems, on something other than themselves."

I was too, until I succumbed myself a few years back. Your own experience tends to colour your view on other people's weaknesses!

You were lucky to survive the long hours at sea on a diet of caffeine and sugar. You were possibly young and fit at the time and probably don't have the genetic susceptibility anyway. Besides, there were good offsets to the long hours and the coffee and sugar diet like the fresh air, open seas and mixing with relaxed people. No doubt, of course, you are a 'superior being' as well!

I guarantee though if you'd maintained those high stress/low sleep levels for many years, continued on the coffee and sugar diet, didn't exercise enough and had the hereditary predisposition, you would have eventually come unstuck to one degree or another.

My understanding is that it's the coming together of several factors and it builds over time, often coming to a head in times of hormonal flux like puberty and menopause or periods of high stress.

CJ's that's preposterous. I never thought you'd buy into such ridiculous notions.

Clearly, the caffeine is a residue left behind by the flying saucers, in an effort to weaken our minds and open them up to capitalist heathen pursuits.
Someday, when the anti-christ comes, he will know the sinners and rally his followers via the barcodes on their hands, which will only have been put there due to the dark influences that have crept into society through the twin evils of caffeine and secularism.

I'd have thought this was patently obvious.

Duh.

Why dont you guys get into Stan Deyo's "THE COSMIC CONSPIRACY". Its about flying disc technology and he makes a believable story about their manufacture. The truth is out there on the net.

Why would we bother, when we've already got Gibo's various "COMIC CONSPIRACIES" available to us right here at OLO?

Admittedly, the "truths" contained therein are decidedly "out there" somewhere :)

Gibo "Why dont you guys get into Stan Deyo's "THE COSMIC CONSPIRACY". Its about flying disc technology and he makes a believable story about their manufacture."

Gibo the believable story is the bit that makes conspiracy theories work. A blend of a bit of fact, some pseudo science and in the case of Deyo some religious trimmings and it's a trap for those looking for something more.

I fell for some of that stuff when "end times" teachings were big in parts of the church almost 30 years ago. The mistake I made was in trying to find some independant verification of Deyo's claims and I kept discovering that his "science" was not. He used idea's that people may have heard of but not understood (skin effect, subliminal learning etc) but gave them greatly exagerated powers. It's not real.

I don't remember just when it was published but I think I started reading it in the early 80's. Almost 30 years and nobody has come up with any serious work which verifies his claims.

This stuff is designed to appeal to the poorly educated seeking something more to their christian experience. It helps people feel that they have some extra knowledge, it serves to keep people isolated and therefore dependant on their group by making them look like complete and utter fruitcakes to those outside their group.

Old techniques used by scamers through the ages.

I'm sort of surprised that any part of the church is still giving that stuff any credibility. Are you getting it in church or from some splinter group (home bible study group)? Seeing the stuff you publish I'd suggest that if you are getting it from your pastor you are probably in a cult.

Talk to some respected penticostal teachers (OK that seems like an oxymoron to me but for you it might make sense) from outside your group. Run some of this stuff by them and see what advice they give.

R0bert

RObert. You didnt get saved reading his book? I read it and God touched me and I got born again. As I was reading the prayer of repentence the Holy Spirit poured into my life. Maybe my needs were greater at that time, than yours were when you read it. I didnt pick on his science. I went for the WHOLE story with the preaching of Jesus Christ as Saviour.

Ah R0bert - ever the voice of reason. I wish I had your patience.

And I'm truly delighted that you managed to survive the "end times" - without even being whisked away by a flying saucer and having your bum probed :D

Seriously, you are truly a model OLO citizen.

But I bet even you have been known to drink coffee or even the odd cola drink! All your good efforts are therefore in vain and you are doomed to BURN IN HELL!

Sorry about that. I just can't treat this guy or his ideas seriously.

And I won't even get started about the caffeine content of tea and its abhorrent effects on those who drink it...

CJ a bit more than the odd coffee and back in the era when Deyo was popular far to many cola drinks.

My recollection is that the Deyo stuff tries to find an explaination for UFO's without aliens. A long time ago so I may have that wrong. Aliens cause lots of theological dilema's for fundies, do they sin, how do they get the message about christ, are they made in Gods image, were they created and if so when? Much neater not to have them but it's risky not to have an alternative explanation.

I'm kind of hoping that Gibo is just seriously mislead rather than evil of heart. I wanted to write a satirical piece but felt to sorry for Gibo for that to sit well.

Gibo if you have not picked up on the science it will help your cause to keep quiet about the flying saucers until you do independant research. It's a con. Sold a lot of books and made for some fame for Deyo for a time but it was not and is not truth. As I suggested in my earlier post talk to some respected teachers who don't teach that stuff.

R0bert

it's not the caffeine folks, but it's absence. My road rage is caused by people stealing the space I was about to occupy; causing me to spill my coffee under heavy braking, drop my phone mid-sentence and knock the end off my ciggie.

Good to see you are well MOrgan

Listen to R0bert Gibo. What reason would he have to lie?

Honestly, your posts on flying saucers seem funny to me at times, but if you're really believing all that, there's an edge there that worries me as well.

For just a brief moment - step outside your view and realise that there have been many different beliefs throughout the ages.
It may seem that Deyo has brought them together, but when you don't actually scrutinise what is being said against things that can be verified, what are you left with?

I know it's tempting to just take recourse back to the bible, but even those with very strong christian beliefs, tend to acknowledge that an element of reason is important as well.

A belief system can't purely exist without making recourse to the world that exists around us.
Whilst I acknowledge that loaded theological issues such creation or the existence of god often lack sufficient scientific knowledge to be able to rule out the work of a deity, there are things in life which man can and has proven through science.
You can't reject reason and science totally, any more than you can reject the existence of the computer you're using to read these posts.

For your own sake Gibo, check in with some pastors at other churches. Listen to what they say about the theories of Deyo.
Science mightn't be able to challenge the bible in the eyes of much of the world, and I guess I can accept that - but the things of which you speak... they're beyond christianity and sound like the words of someone in the grip of a cult, a cult which relies on people not questioning the facts that form its basis.

Also TRTL of course - another beacon of reason at OLO :)

And thanks old 'pal' - glad to see you're well too. I've just come back from a few days camping and trout fishing in some pretty stunning and wild country.

Good for the soul, I reckon - but I confess to actually drinking quite strong coffee in the misty and glimmering mountain dawn before venturing out to catch the 'dawn rise' of the elusive trout.

I don't recall feeling much rage, despite being teased mercilessly by my quarry. But then again, I was in the opposite of traffic :)

CJ Morgan

I'm an admirer of your wit and usually applaud your choice of target! This time though I feel you've overdone the ridicule.

I'm an atheist and like you I'm totally dismissive of Gibo's religious rants, but I'm not so blind as to overlook the odd occasion he might raise a valid concern.

It's obviously drawing too long a bow to blame rage solely onto caffeine, but there is definitely some linkage. It is well documented and worthy of at least some serious discussion!

Good for you Morgan.

I haven't seen the well known Sydney landmark for a while- that old geezer with the cockie on his shoulder holding the sign "UFO's. The Return of Christ" .

Welcome back.

Yeah, fair cop Yvonne. I have indeed ignored the potentially interesting aspect of Gibo's original post.

Of course, caffeine is the legal drug that most pervades our society - more so even than alcohol, I'd suggest. And the proliferation in recent years of syrupy caffeine/guarana/sugar concoctions at every servo is undoubtedly one small factor in the etiology of the recent social phenomenon of 'road rage'.

However, as you say, it's drawing a long bow to attribute that sociopathy predominantly to the consumption of cola drinks that contain caffeine. But I was unnecessarily mean to poor old Gibo, and I've already apologised for it :)

Pal, thanks for the welcome back :) I haven't lived in Sydney since 1984, so I'm not familiar with the character you describe. However, before that I drove taxis around Sydney for about 5 years as a student, and I recall various notable characters that I'd come across repeatedly in my travels...

And Yvonne - thanks so much for the compliment. I like your contributions too.

Oh Gawd - of course I meant Bronwyn instead of Yvonne!

I can only offer my most abject apologies to both Bronwyn and Yvonne. My faux pas is truly unforgivable.

All I can say in amelioration is that I usually really like the stuff that both of you write here.

I suppose a #*%^'s out of the question, then :P

Pal. I think the old guy with the UFO/Jesus Soon placard might have passed on to be with The Lord. He hasnt been seen as far as I know for a while. He was different... but who knows what God uses to trigger a response for Jesus in someones life? He kept Christs Name alive in a small way in front of tens of thousands. I was thankful to see him on the median strip in early morning traffic.
TurnRightThenleft.
I wouldnt really speak to any of my pastors about Stan Deyo's book. The younger pastors probably havent read The Cosmic Conspiracy and the experience of getting born again whilst reading the prayer of repentence in the centre of the book was just that...a personal experience.
A lot of us die hards are also a bit akin to the Amish.
We have actually shut down regarding much of the worlds talk and we actually block it off quite a bit just to preserve what we have. I can do somethings but not others. Watch somethings but not others. I would like to go back to bush living myself, and I may very well, with contact with only a few bush pastors and a few brethren and only a few others (thats not the Brethren either). Its self protection in a degenerating world that morally soon is going to become Apocalyto. I see the big cities of the future, should the Second Coming of Jesus Christ tarry, as hunting grounds from wild men.
Already the sexual violence because of the uncontrolled pornography, the stresses, massive caffiene intakes:) and the general ungodliness of youth is dragging world society into a dark hole. The coming civil war with Islam inside Australia wont help any either.

"We have actually shut down regarding much of the worlds talk and we actually block it off quite a bit just to preserve what we have."

To the rest of us Gibo, that paragraph sounds like you just don't want to have to confront the truth that if you were to start looking, your beliefs would crumble in the face of reason.

"Already the sexual violence because of the uncontrolled pornography, the stresses, massive caffiene intakes:) and the general ungodliness of youth is dragging world society into a dark hole. The coming civil war with Islam inside Australia wont help any either."

Just curious, Gibo, have you read some religious material on the perils of caffeine recently? You've listed the usual doom and gloom culprits here, but the caffeine one seems a bit out of left field.

CJ Morgan

Yes, I accept your apology, minor mistake. And yes your offer is certainly out of the question! Playing safe there, not sure what the offer was or who it was directed to, but I definitely don't think I need to know!

I'm disappointed I didn't get to read your apology to Gibo though!

TRTL. The Bible says we are to dwell on things of good report. All thats coming through the media is mostly darkness and sad stories to do with the failures of governments and people. Africa. What a mess. Is China seeking to secretly tear it down to her advantage? Endless shootings in the USA. Uncommitted government here. Crime everwhere. Girls cant walk down the street anymore because of pornographys' sex criminals. Sex crims are taking over the world. No wonder I want to block most of it out.
Actually I find it applicable to put myself into an old English forest...sort of a bit like one might find in Wind in the Willows...with a little white church in the glade and sunlight through the trees and the animals, birds, badger and mole, and rat.
Their world. I find that releasing.

Gibo, I think the reason you try to avoid those things, is apparently you think things are far worse than they actually are.

"Girls cant walk down the street anymore because of pornographys' sex criminals. Sex crims are taking over the world."

No. They're not. I don't know what kind of crazed world you think you're living in, but it really isn't that bad.

TRTL. Maybe we should ask the girls. Do they feel safe on our streets?
Sex crime has exploded in recent years, the only real and apparent cause...pornography.
I wonder if Australian girls feel safe walking in our cities? Are they more cautious than several decades ago?
Women on the Brisbane walking paths and cycleways have recently had a very bad time.
I dont think its safe anywhere anymore.

Bronwyn, I don't think Gibo is due an apology from me. He wants to preach his loopy ideas at us but on his own admission doesn't want to read sensible replies that refute his decidedly paranoid worldview.

I feel sympathy for poor old Gibo, but not enough to prevent me from subjecting his twaddle to the lampooning it deserves.

I have watched this thread develop and have given much thought to the considered opinions offered here.

Gibo has a point about caffeine. I can confirm his worst fears. I am a very old person, but if I do not get my daily shot of caffeine, I am a danger to all on the road. I find thuggery quite compelling, and frankly have to confess that the boys are not safe walking down the street.

I am very much worserer when I do get the caffeine so it is a real problem.

CJ

You misread my post. I didn't say you should apologize to Gibo.

I was just referring to your earlier statement where you said,

"I was unnecessarily mean to poor old Gibo, and I've already apologised for it".

I couldn't see it and was just curious to know what you would have said, that's all.