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The Forum > General Discussion > Hate Speech-Are Human Rights groups the forerunner to ORWELLIAN social control ?

Hate Speech-Are Human Rights groups the forerunner to ORWELLIAN social control ?

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Dear Horus,

"It's a big big country but it's a small small world."

John Kennedy's "Love Gone Wrong."

Some people mistakenly believe that the public expression of racist attitudes is a legal and acceptable form of free speech. In Australia and internationally, the right of freedom of speech carries with it certain responsibilities and restrictions which protect the rights of others against open hostility and discrimination. Religion is such a sensitive area, especially to non-westerners as we know. So why
deliberately provoke people - in the name of "Free Speech."

Sorry Horus. I don't agree with you. As for my supposed "Anti Anglo"
stance... I'm not anti any nationality - what I am against is bigoted,
narrow-minded attitudes of certain people. And they come in all nationalities, as we all know.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 31 January 2008 9:14:11 AM
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Whenever this thread gets bumped to the top I get a fresh rush of hilarity.

Is there somewhere we can vote for most ridiculous topic title of the year
Posted by Vanilla, Thursday, 31 January 2008 9:27:35 AM
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Foxy,
On another thread you criticised early settlers/settlement of Aust.
Now, suppose I didn't like to hear disparaging comments about our earlier
history.Suppose that it offends my nationalist sensitivities.
Should I have the right to silence you?
(not realistic?) Actually, in Turkey at the moment there is precisely this
scenario.There's a professor on trial because he talked-down the glories of their
earlier history.

In Aust, a professor is more likely to be ridiculed & outed for talking-up
the glories of the past.

Why deliberately provoke people– two points:
i) By-and-large a groups feeling of provocation will expand to match what they feel they can get away with. Are we are going to avoid confronting certain issues/groups because of how someone might react –what does that say about us/our motives(?) ,&
ii) Why is it considered ok, progressive even, to confront/provoke Western sensitivities, but not Ok to confront non-Western sensitivities (?)

Since you're fond of quoting famous people, here's a story from Salman Rushdie:
-When the Pakistani censors found that the movie El Cid ended with a dead Charlton
Heston leading the Christians to victory of the Muslims, they had it banned, until, they
had the idea of simply cutting out the ending of the film,so thereafter the
film was screened but faded out with El Cid mortally wounded...
It all goes to show , there is no end to sensitivities!
Posted by Horus, Friday, 1 February 2008 1:19:11 AM
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Dear Horus,

I think that it must be our different upbringing that results in our different ways of looking at things.

The early history of Australia's settlement was not something that I raised in another post with the intention of provocation. It was factual material (not cartoons) found in government files and archives for all to read. It actually happened and is part of this country's documented history - although some people refuse to acknowledge it.

Deliberately pocking fun of somebody's beliefs is a different scenario alltogether. And as I stated earlier -"Do unto others..." It amounts to showing respect for other cultures - which I don't regard as impinging on "Freedom of Speech," at all.

I find that arguing with you is really pointless. You go on thinking the way that you do -that's your privilege. Mine is to disagree with
you...
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 February 2008 10:43:34 AM
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Vanilla... fudge... slice..

If ONLY it was as simple as a 'rediculous' topic.

If I ranted the way I feel I'd just go on an on :) as you by now know.

But why do I 'feel' so passionate?

Let me put it another way... how CLOSE do you think we are to being actually "controlled" by Islamic interests?

By 'Controlled' I mean where our politicians are living in fear of their lives from Muslims who can easily identify them and what they say, and then deliver not so suttle death threats against them for simply sticking up for freedom and the publics feelings.

EXAMPLE. "Mega Mosque-East London"

1/ Much opposition from the community.
2/ East London councillor speaks out against it (in a very gentle and restrained manner by the way)
3/ He is given a death threat on youtube, where he and his daughters are pictured with RIP attached! (now..If I could use 50 exlamation marks there...I'd do so)

So.. here is the problem we must be free to criticize and do so in an emphatic underlined, exclamitary way about such things, withOUT fear of being dragged off by the thought police to the local gulag, under some hate speech law.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23419736-details/Death+threats+on+YouTube+for+mosque+opponent/article.do

The person who put that video up..Abdullah1425 can be heard on other videos on youtube.. sounds like a moron.
THE POINT IS... this person could be tracked down.. and found/arrested/jailed. But...has he ?

Again..I re-iterate..the problem with 'hate speech' laws are when they prevent members of the community or media from EXPOSING the real source of religious hate...which is the Quran.

1/ 'Christian opposes the mosque'
2/ 'Muslim makes death threat against him and publishes his family photo on youtube.
3/ Where does this muslim get his ideas from ?

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm

For a British Islamic justification for killing those who oppose/insult Islam/prophet.

( can't wait for Perilous to tell ME I'm 'selecting for my purpose' here :)

http://www.islam101.com/quran/quranYusuf/005.htm Is Verse 33 in the mind of that Muslim ? (please take the trouble to actually read it)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 1 February 2008 11:06:17 AM
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Horus, you're a classic!

>>No creed or personage is above examination and (yes) even lampooning. And, that’s pretty much the way it has been . Until recently, when there has been a trend where some positions have been deemed to be too holy (or, more likely, too threatening ) to be lampooned.<<

You are obviously referring to Harbhajan Singh's remarks to Andrew Symonds. Absolutely agree. Our cricketers - the archetypal sledgers from way back - have become a bunch of precious little mummy's boys, now someone has actually answered them back.

I assume you also believe that our slander and libel laws are far too namby-pamby - hey, you should be allowed to say what you like about whomever you like, right?

And Boaz clearly agrees with you.

>>we must be free to criticize and do so in an emphatic underlined, exclamitary way about such things, withOUT fear of being dragged off by the thought police to the local gulag, under some hate speech law<<

If only Boaz had explained this to Ricky Ponting before the Sydney Test.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 1 February 2008 12:02:43 PM
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