Remember the threads about it? the words thousands of them we chucked at one another?
The heated insults the barbed comments? Workchoices we talked the issues out agreed and disagreed, some hurled the word choices at me like a spear, saying you had a choice!
Today it is dead!
The leader of the opposition this very day told us it is dead, he in fact said they very things I said , unions said , non union low income victims said it was wrong.
While I watch with interest for Labors true national IR true reform may I invite both sides to talk about why conservatives inflicted this wound workchoices on themselves?
And what a national system will look like?
It will [as I said against a flood of lies ] not be a gift to unions.
It will not please unions or me, but it will not be challenged by any future government.
So may those who crossed verbal swords in the debate tell us why both sides now agree with Australia's unions? workchoices was unfair.

Dear Belly,

Workchoices was a big election issue and it's great that the Labor Party kept their election promise. Great for all workers that finally fairness has been returned to the workforce.

What's impressive is the way in which the present government is going about keeping all of its promises. With Kyoto, and now tackling the issues of education and health, with the cooperation of the states. This may well end up being the best government ever.

I see a very positive future for this country under the current government.

Yes Foxy it is not yet a month from the election day, how good is that?
In fact one month ago , just days before the event few would have thought this country would have changed so very much, and for the better.
Just six weeks ago workchoices had plenty of supporters here in this forum, many of them had very little understanding of its true impacts.
Now a conservative team in tatters yet trying to start the job of rebuilding has agreed with so very many voters.
And workchoices is dead.
This time is historic, we will one day look back and see Australia took a turn that we will be proud of.
Fresh air and ideas rushes around our country's capital and I for one am proud of my country and those who stood against workchoices.
Seasons greetings to you Foxy and all who post in OLO.

Belly
Ah Um, Well The world The Stock exchange paints a very different picture after the elections.
I know of one bank who has over three hundred morgage in possecions just sitting there.

They are holding off at the request of people in high places for fear of causing panic.

Many in the business world have dropped progects and pulled out of Australia because of the work choices problem.

Many more have stopped employing.

I just fail to see how that is good for any country.

Also there is no use saying one thing and meaning another our friendship with USA has changed a bit.

Its clear USA are going down but they would have pulled out that bit extra for Howard had the Aussies ever been in trouble.

They wont do that for Rudd Belly.

So please explain why a predicted crash which will effect thousands espeically in the middle western suburbs is so good?

Do you even follow the world market?
Do you fully understand whats going on?
Do you understand companies have stopped employing people as they were?
Do you understand why they predict a huge crash and very hard times in six months but getting much much harder over the next two years.

Dear Taryn,

The previous government made a mess, and the new government has to fix it.
Why blame Rudd -they've only been in power one month. Victoria has not to this day fully recovered from the mess that Liberals have created in this state.

As for the crash that you're predicting - that's a result of world economics, but with a stable government now in power there may be more control.

As for Howard and the USA - Bush is out in 2008, and the Democrats will get on very well with the current Australian Government.

It will be interesting to get your opinion in five years time.

Dear Belly, Taryn, and All of the OLO posters,

I wanted to add, to you and yours...

Merry Christmas and All The Best in the New Year. May it be a good
one for us all!

A Big Hug ...

How did sub prime loans become pert of the discourse on "work choices"?
The govt. will need to be quick on its feet to avoid this mess, I promise you.
Never has an election been lost at such an appropriate time.
All have a happy holiday with my best wishes. We live in dangerous times.
fluff4

The world market was heading in its current direction long before the election. The American subprime catastrophe had nothing to do with Kevin Rudd.

The legislation which will abolish WorkChoices hasn't been finalised, debated or passed yet, so if companies really are shutting up shop left, right and centre that can't be Rudd's fault either. And I'd like to know how you reconcile the assertion that employers are pulling up stumps with the latest employment figures which show unemployment dropping.

We're not the only country fed up to the back teeth with Bush's America. While you were waiting for the world market news on telly you might have seen scenes of jubilance at Bali every time someone told the United States to pull its head in.

The belief that our great and powerful ally will come to our aid in times of need is largely garbage. The ANZUS treaty guarantees nothing but grants American intervention when its own interests are threatened. As long as their Australian based military facilities are ok the rest of us staunch little Aussie allies can go to hell in a handbasket.

The interest rates rises that are now seeing banks foreclose on home loans in Australia happened before and during the last election. People didn't suddenly start losing their houses on the 24th November.

What did happen was that, as Belly pointed out, we became optimistic about being a fair and reasonable nation with big plans for improvement. We've seen some already and as Belly said, the more optimistic among us are happy about it even though we have some troubling economic issues to deal with.

Chin up Taryn. It's Christmas. Peace and joy and all that.

Seasons greetings everyone.

TarynW please understand I am not trying to be offensive, truly.
I truly honestly find no reason at all, none, to place any value on your thoughts.
I have far more of an understanding of the issues than you give me credit for.
Read threads I started long before the election.
Such as the credit one, just maybe it was before those American loans became an issue.
Posts months before spoke of my growing concerns at both personal dept and national balance of payments.
Oh yes I have an understanding.
America is in real peril, financial risks by money hungry people have created this, selling cheap unsupported homes then bulk selling the risk on.
Rebut me if you wish, but understand I do know workchoices has nothing to do with the coming credit squeeze.

And Taryn know for sure and certain it will not be the reason for repossessions of thousands of homes we will see in the next ten years in Australia.
Today and tomorrow people already in deep trouble, already using credit cards to pay housing loans, interest on interest, are shopping on those cards for Christmas they can not afford.
Last test me! nine years from this day Kevin Rudd will still lead this country.
Bill Shorten a great ALP PM of the future has as much chance of replacing him as any conservative leader.
I again swim in the joy of the death of workchoices and remind every one fair go mate! is not yet dead in Australia.

Ah Belly
Merry Christmas mate - because next year it will all start to unravel.
Brendan Nelson will tell you that Workchoices was a bad thing but only because it lost them the election through a scare campaign.
Give Labor two terms in office to dismantle the economy and then the Coalition will do the hard yards again and attempt to rebuild it to some semblance of a developed nation. It may be too late by then but, as long as the unions have what they want, then the rest of us won't matter very much.
Rudd has already backtracked on the environment. Signing Kyoto just let him enter the club but wait for the Garnault report and we will have excuses galore. He will pull our forces out of Iraq (it will save money) but he will leave them in Afghanistan because it is popular to do so and will keep the US just enough on side. He will kowtow to China and forget that Tibet exists.
He is already looking for savings in social welfare - reportedly $1.8 billion worth of savings from the most vulnerable sections of the community. Oh, and don't forget that it all sounds good and family and community friendly and it is what people voted for - only they did not realise that it was cost savings by another name.
How long before those who voted Labor realise what they voted for? Soon I hope...Rudd is still getting far too much praise. He needs to be analysed and asked some of the hard questions....but everyone seems to be frightened of doing so.
As I said Merry Christmas Belly - make the most of it mate. It ain't gonna last.

Thanks Communicat you too and every one a truly great Christmas and new year.
As we know the election is over I have no need to sell Kevin Rudd, he is here for 3 terms.
See if we look back on our debates in the 2 years past we can see who was closer to the truth.
Unions still fear Kevin Rudd! yes we do! and Julia is not going to save us either.
We unionists would have preferred the Paul Keiting plan, return to post 1993 IR.
We will not get that ever, but given the choice between workchoices and Rudd?
I can not understand how so many still are blind to the intentions of workchoices and its impact on the already poor.
But it is clear the conservatives know its impacts on them.
Childish giggles in my radio shack PC room, I do!
No easy task personal debt and national debt is going to be bought home to us all.
Americas problems are not little ones the world is due for economic troubles.
But Nelson? only a plug in a very large hole, a time server, Rudd will win two more elections and give him no chance at a double one or regret it.
No unraveling no return to extremely high interests no easy task for your mob.
The miss use of that mandate will haunt conservatives for generations.
The dead hand of the NSW conservative right must be cut of.
My new year is assured Communicat lets revisit these two posts next Christmas
regards
Belly
proud trade unionist forever
If I ever let you down remind me I am worthless!
[ my pledge to each member]
unionists do not have horns or worship the devil, they live just down the road from us all.

Ah yes Belly - I noted the little phrase about 'non-union contract workers' in this morning's paper - you know the people you unionists are going out on strike over at Qantas. Seems they can be superbly well qualified in every other way but if they don't pay your club then they are not welcome....thought we were supposed to be past such things but it seems not.

Bottom of the barrel stuff that Communicat, after all the thread is about the death of workchoices.
Or is it the death of conservative government in Australia?
No can not be that you still have Brisbane city council!
I think just maybe the story you highlight is made up, well maybe not but who from what union complained about non union labour?
In truth, yes I believe it! non union labour is not something unions can ignore.
Strange as you may find it most non unionists have every right not to be unionists, there it is out there I do think that way.
And I do think non unionists , every single one of them, should not profit from union won conditions and wages.
Let them set their own negotiated income and working conditions, it holds no fear for me.
Unionists do better, by the way I do not agree with every union , or every union action.
You should try to find fault with your side of politics after all Australia has.
Have a great new year Communicat truly the best yet to you and every one who posts in OLO.
Me and Mr Rudd like Australia will
regards