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The Forum > General Discussion > ignorance (feel free to refer to personal experience to illustrate response)

ignorance (feel free to refer to personal experience to illustrate response)

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Is knowing better than not knowing
This, I believe to be a pertinent question
Weather it is better to indulge in bliss of ignorance
Or to be aware, and by so knowing, indulge in situational practicalities
In order to be prepared, it is necessity to know
But the inner turmoil of knowing can negate the advantage conferred by knowing
That is, the muddy water of a mind subjected to a fact, cannot; in some circumstances, engage in the cognitive emotionless process required to combat said circumstance
Posted by thecat, Tuesday, 18 December 2007 1:24:34 PM
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I'm afraid I don't know.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 7:58:24 AM
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This could be a very interesting thread, will be intrigued to see what response is generated and where it leads.

Thecat, it is a pertinent question (philosophical ones generally are) ... the difficulty is, many people don't (or can't) confront the truth or the real issues. This is one of a range of psychological defense mechanism used to "cope".

Your thread reminds me of another, posted over 400 yrs ago,

"To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them ..."

It has been said "To be", in Hamlet's eyes, is a passive state, to "suffer" outrageous fortune's blows, while not being is the action of opposing those blows. Living is, in effect, a kind of slow death, a submission to fortune's power.

On the other hand, death is initiated by a life of action, rushing armed against a sea of troubles. A pretty hopeless project, if you think about it in terms of the questions you ask.
Posted by Q&A, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 9:18:39 AM
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Thecat,
Everything that happens is determined by what has gone on before .

Until we are smart enough to know what has gone on before,we are kidding ourselves if we say "we know".

Life is not a punt - but we will never really know how the 1+1 = the 2.
Posted by kartiya jim, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 10:37:52 AM
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One of my favourite examples of 'ignorance' is called, "A Letter From Granma."

I got a letter from my granma yesterday, she writes ...
The other day, I visited a local Christian bookshop and spotted a,
"Honk if you love Jesus" bumper sticker for the car.

So I bought the sticker and put it on the rear bumper of my
car.

Boy, am I glad I did! What an uplifting experience followed. I was
stopped at a red light at a very busy intersection, just lost in
thought about the Lord and how good he is and I didn't notice the
light had changed to green. It's a good thing someone else loves
Jesus too, because if he hadn't honked, I would never have noticed
the light change.

I found that lots of people love Jesus. Why, while I was sitting
there, the fellow behind me started honking like crazy, then he
leaned out of the window and screamed, "For the love of God,
GO! GO! GO! Jesus Christ, GO!" What an exuberant cheerleader he was
for Jesus.

I saw another man waving in a funny way with only his middle finger pointing up to the heavens. When I asked my teenage grandson in the back seat what that meant, he said it was an old native good-luck sign he'd read about.
Well I leaned out of the window and gave him the good-luck sign
back. My grandson burst out laughing. Even he was enjoying the
religious experience.

I noticed the light had changed to green for the second time,
so I waved to all my sisters and brothers, and drove on through the
intersection.

I noticed that mine was the only car that got through before the light changed to red again. I felt rather sad that I had to leave them
after all the love we had shared, so I slowed the car down, leaned
out of the window and gave them the native good luck sign with my
middle finger one last time as we drove away!

Praise the Lord for such wonderful people.
Love,
Gran.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 2:05:32 PM
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Foxy, I loved your post, couldn't stop laughing. Your Gran is a wise and funny woman :) I hope you'll be sharing another letter from your granma with us in the future.

Well, my answer to thecat's question would be that I'd love to know the truth about everything.
The thing is, that the truth always seems to be untouchable to me.
When I believe 'I've got the truth' about something, there's always some information around the corner that makes me doubt it.

If it's a choice between the security of faith, which is based on nothing but belief without evidence, or the truth- I'll have to say I'd choose to chase the truth even though the way to the truth is full of doubt.

Albert Einstein:
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."
Posted by Celivia, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 5:04:22 PM
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I often reflect upon the worthiness of Goethe's maxim--

'Nothing's worse than active ignorance"
Posted by digiwigi, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 9:07:02 PM
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Celivia:
I agree with you! It would be nice to know the truth about everything, painful as it sometimes would be for us!....."The truth is mightier than the sword!"
Unfortunately our system seems to thrive on "untruths" of varying degrees, but generally we are just a bunch of human "mushrooms".
Imagine the chaos that would result should the masses be told the truth about happenings/past events such as: The John Fitzgerald Kennedy Assassination, The Marilyn Monroe "Suicide", The Earl Mountbatten Assassination, The Twin Towers "Conspiracy" and last but not least..... The Diana and Dodi Vehicle "Accident".....just to name a few!
Unfortunately we MUST be kept in the dark about most issues that adversely affect our everyday lives, or the political and corporate raiders who prosper from the extraction of pennies from our purses, would suddenly find themselves out of the rich pickings that they currently procure, and at the same time, with this exposed knowledge the masses world-wide would tend to become a little "testy" to say the least.
Posted by Cuphandle, Thursday, 20 December 2007 6:52:21 AM
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Foxy, that was fantastic!

As for ignorance or truth ... well, what is truth? Truth tends to be transitory, and what is true today may be proved false tomorrow.

An example of ignorance vs truth for me is my exposure to global warming and climate change, my work has led me into academic and scientific circles, with many of the leading advocates and detractors of global warming. The more I learn the more confused it becomes, without boring y'all with the details, the underlying truth of many of the responses has less to do with fact than it does with motivation.

Therefore, it's not just a matter of knowing but deciphering that becomes the issue.

Truth was explained to me as a two sided coin, my truth and yours.

Even things that were held dearly as true (the world is flat, Earth was the centre of the universe ... our planet contains the only living creatures in existence) can be turned on their head with just a little time.

Would I like to be omnipotent ... no way, too much knowledge to contain if you ask me! For with ignorance also comes the opportunity for discovery, new experiences, new ways of seeing and learning.
Posted by Corri, Thursday, 20 December 2007 8:32:51 AM
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I've come to realize that the more I learn, the more there is to know... as the saying goes - you spend your life learning and still die ignorant (words to that effect). I've always loved history and thought that from its study you will learn the 'truth.' However, I now know - that it depends whose account of history you're reading.

Everything is open to interpretation ...
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 20 December 2007 9:06:14 AM
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"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." Shakespeare ... though does that not mean that the wise man therefore is a fool who thinks he's wise?
Posted by Corri, Thursday, 20 December 2007 2:43:20 PM
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Dear Corri,

Yes, that's the way it reads.

But it doesn't matter because as Oscar Wilde said, "Only the shallow know themselves!"
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 20 December 2007 3:04:05 PM
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We could have as much fun posting quotes ... Confucious says (really):

"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
Posted by Corri, Thursday, 20 December 2007 3:30:21 PM
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Here's my offering:

"At thirty man suspects himself a fool;
Knows it at forty, and reforms his plan;
At fifty chides his infamous delay,
Pushes his prudent purpose to resolve;
In all the magnanimity of thought
Resolves; and re-resolves; then dies the same."

- Edward Young (1683 - 1765).
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 20 December 2007 5:52:46 PM
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Hello and have a good x-mas. A fool is only a fool if one believes he or she is. Freedom of the mind is for all to enjoy, not just the chosen few who thinks that there mind is right.
You all want, what you cant get, so who is the fool. Its funny this old world we all live in, and 85% of you are taking it up the jaxie. You all preach what you have been programed to say, and with that, your minds will make the best of it.

Always think for yourself, cause the little minds will be what their are. NOTHING!

P/S Its easy behind a computer screen, isn't it!
Posted by evolution, Friday, 21 December 2007 12:30:50 AM
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Evolution: Your comment "You all want, what you cant get, so who is the fool" intrigues me.

For achieving the unlikely is the nature of evolution - it is this search and drive to discover that differentiates our mind and provides the freedom to dream, aspire and seek.

As for preaching what you're programmed to say - well we are all programmed, every one of us at birth were lmited in our use of language, then programmed to use a common form, in this case English. The use of these words however, once again, is what creates our poetry, our songs and words of learning.

For me, wanting what I can't have just might get me something I didn't expect. So, I guess this makes me proud to be a fool.

To one and all a Merry Christmas and all the best for the new year.
Posted by Corri, Friday, 21 December 2007 7:56:15 AM
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foxy! what a taunt you are!!
You have evoked, with ribaldry some of the best posts I've read, no abuse just good fun and learning, thankyou.
To all posters on the forum have a great holiday.

fluff4
Posted by fluff4, Friday, 21 December 2007 8:44:12 AM
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Thanks to all of the people who posted.
The outcome to this discussion was predictable WHO KNOWS, but it was interesting to see the differing points of view. merry Xmas to all
Posted by thecat, Friday, 21 December 2007 10:55:03 AM
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And socrates said (in response to the oracle at delphi's claim that none were wiser than he) that he was wise only because he knew that he did not know and this made him wise
Posted by thecat, Friday, 21 December 2007 10:58:44 AM
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Thank you, thecat and all others, I've enjoyed reading your comments.

Merry Christmas to all of you!
Posted by Celivia, Friday, 21 December 2007 11:41:44 AM
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Thecat ,
We have just had four inches [100 mm] of rain in about Four hours, on top of an inch yesterday!

Cattle marooned,Dams and house tanks full and overflowing .

Parched red-gums and black box trees are having a decent drink at last .

It's been the biggest rain here in at least 20 years .

Didn't know it was coming and the funny part of it is that some farmers didn't want it ! That's not us .

Thank the Lord the multinationals have't got hold of the weather .

Have a great Christmas and a Happy and mind stimulating New Year and thanks to OLO, The Forum and the writers .
Posted by kartiya jim, Friday, 21 December 2007 9:46:51 PM
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I think there are many truths ,the two biggest are life and death.They are also the greatest mysteries.
Posted by mickijo, Saturday, 22 December 2007 2:19:49 PM
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For every action,there is a reaction. This can be or is applied throughout the universe.Whether we talk about our mind our physical being,the things and examples which are created by nature and its offspring.As a reaction to "every action there is a reaction" one should look at chopping down a tree, it reacts by falling down and dying. If we didn't know what could happen we could thru our ignorence be smashed to smitherenes.We have the knowledge to foresee the future but have forgotten the knowledge to use and apply it.Lobsang Rampa discribed it beautifully, we all have this wave of knowledge above our heads, we can grasp it and pull it down if we want it.There is heaps of ancient knowledge all pointing out to nature and survival of the fittest. My answer would be to that, look after your progeny and health and protect others from harm,whether physical or mental.Just as a Xmas greetings and warm wishes to everyone I'll show you this cartoon: http://www.newstarget.com/022411.html
Posted by eftfnc, Monday, 24 December 2007 11:46:52 AM
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Surely, thecat, it depends entirely on what you know and don't know, and don't know you don't know or don't want to know that you don't know? I mean, do you really want to know that you spelled whether wrongly? Or would it foment great tribulation within the confines of your cranium?
I suggest you make a list of everything you don't want to know, and stick to it...
What I would like to know, Celivia, is what Pilate also wanted to know... What is truth?
Posted by ybgirp, Monday, 24 December 2007 9:34:23 PM
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To all posters,
Great stuff, I enjoyed it immensely. Just the ticket for now. To hell with doing anything today, its put me in the mood to watch the cricket. All the best for new year.
Posted by Banjo, Friday, 28 December 2007 7:43:01 AM
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