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Nation
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Posted by Incoherrant, Friday, 9 November 2007 10:45:06 AM
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All multiculturalism is, is plural monocultualism!
The people who move to Australia only want Australia’s money and security! They all wish that the “Australians” were not there but sadly for them the Australians are intrinsic to the security and economic success. So they champion the multiculturalist agenda so as to distance themselves from main stream Australians but are still able to keep their tentacles on the security and the money! Posted by EasyTimes, Friday, 9 November 2007 1:49:29 PM
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Actually Nationalism by definition, as well as being "a love for one's country" - also implies a hatred of other countries.
To equate immigration (by some groups only) with a desire just to come here, get rid of us and "take our money" seems a little off target to me. I tend to think there are other motives involved. Posted by wobbles, Friday, 9 November 2007 2:12:29 PM
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I would call a resolute love of one's country patriotism. Nationalism has more to do with a preference for societies to be based around culture rather than bureaucracy, & holism above immediate short term 'benefit' (as defined by the regime) for individuals. What do multicultural Australians have in common? We spend money in the same territory & the same politicians pretend to represent us.
"Actually Nationalism by definition, as well as being "a love for one's country" - also implies a hatred of other countries." I hope this was a joke, because it's moronic. If you are serious, back it up please. Pan-Nationalism implies the utmost respect for all other countries by acknowledging their right to life and autonomy. Converting the world into a consumerist monoculture = hatred of all nations, including your own. Posted by Incoherrant, Saturday, 10 November 2007 8:09:58 AM
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INCOHERRANT....that was an amazing web site :)
One little gem from it: "Reasons for exclusion need not be rooted in hatred, nor does nationalism in any way necessitate the view that one's own culture is more righteous than another" EXACTLY.... about time someone OTHER than the likes of me started saying this. Then Wobbles gets a bit shakey by saying: >>Actually Nationalism by definition, as well as being "a love for one's country" - also implies a hatred of other countries.<< To which I have to respond rather passionately WHY? In fact..I totally disagree. Do you 'hate' other families just because you love your own? I surely hope not. I view it as a difference of degree...if our love for our country is based on our values, and our values are noble, the most this neccessitates of us is that we 'disagree' with the values of certain other nations. But what if they share our values? We don't even need to disagree. Its just a matter of simple geography, tribe, race, culture. Difference does not imply 'hate' of difference. As I'm often told here 'tolerance' is the key. Only when tolerance will endanger your own freedom (By tolerating INtolerance) does it become a problem. >>Active Nihilism is a worldview which recognizes that 'good' and 'bad' are just concepts or judgments which can never refer to anything in reality except by doing so subjectively, i.e., by drawing more from the make-up, or the fears and desires, of the observer than from any inherently 'good' or 'bad' nature of the objects of reference.<< CONCLUSION That web site actually confirms what I and others have been arguing ad-nauseum... "Apart from the Almighty, there is no right or wrong"..there is only 'beneficial and unbeneficial'. So.. -I've been saying it. -Pericles and others have been denying it. -This organization confirms it. (and it surely is not Christian) -The Bible confirms it. Believe it....or not. Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 11 November 2007 8:01:51 AM
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The problem with multiculturalism is that cultures are, for the most part, grounded in religion and religious practices, therefore they demand conformity and deny individualism. we are expected to endorse child genital mutilation because it is 'cultural' when it is religious. We are expected to approve someone's desire to murder homosexuals by crushing them beneath a wall because that is their culture... but it is their religion.
The only social philosophy that cares for the rights and welfare and duties of every individial, is a pluralist, secular, informed democracy. Cultures are the opposite of that, they twist and crush individuals into conformist clones, creating misery and alienation along the way. As for nationalism, anyone who loves and admires and defends his/her country unquestioningly is an utter fool. There's nothing to admire in a country that goes to war on the other side of the globe in order to secure cheap oil and contracts for re-building after the battle. There's nothing to admire in a country that elects a government that thinks the only important thing is money and to hell with clean air, sustainable living, pure water, conservation of natural resources, protection and conservation of indigenous plants and animals....... that's a country to be ashamed of. Posted by ybgirp, Monday, 12 November 2007 9:49:55 AM
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“…anyone who loves and admires and defends his/her country unquestioningly is an utter fool”.
As is the person who thinks this is what nationalism amounts to. Oh, but you’re not a conformist clone of the liberal regime, are you? Did you even read the article linked at the start of this thread? Posted by Incoherrant, Monday, 12 November 2007 12:49:58 PM
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incoherrant wrote, 'I'm a moron, so when reading that I get offended & think that counts as legitimate rebuttal. What about you?'
I'm not offended so I can't be a moron. Why are some people so often 'offended' when they come across an ideology different from their own? There are many website of the opposite view out there but I'm not offended. Love of one's country does not mean hatred of others. The assaults on Nationalism are communist-based as the first step to dominating a nation is to destabilise it. As for “…anyone who loves and admires and defends his/her country unquestioningly is an utter fool”, if you substitute 'government' for 'country', I would agree. Posted by Jack the Lad, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 11:22:23 AM
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People get caught up in the 'good vs. evil' divide. Atheists too. It's a simple system for simple minds, as their reasoning can remain the same from when they were watching cartoons as a kid. Pick a team, & hate everything else. Reminds one of liberal democratic politics. Any sensible person will step back & realise that all of the options are utter crap, but nutters get zealous about which useless party they'll be voting for.
If you have left this behind, you should check out nihilism- The American Nihilist Underground Society: www.anus.com The Australian Nihilist Underground Society: www.anus.com/tribes/au Witty acronyms, I know. Seeing past that to consider the ideas = the first test, if you will. Posted by Incoherrant, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 9:14:21 AM
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Inchoerrant... [with the emphasis on errant, I imagine?]
You're touting for nihilism, a negative philosophy espousing an extreme form of scepticism that denies all existence; holds that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. Nihilism rejects all distinctions in moral value and repudiates all previous theories of morality, while believing that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement. Nihilism scorns authority and tradition and believes in reason, materialism, and radical change in society and government through terrorism and assassination. Yes, sure, that will solve all our problems. Posted by ybgirp, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 11:06:03 AM
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ybgirp, I'm seeing a trend here. You've attacked nationalism for something it is not. Now you've attacked my espousal of nihilism for something that it is not. I posted links for a reason - to educate those who're unsure. You're getting vicious at a straw man. That's a waste of everyone's time. I should add, however, that you haven't argued against that straw man. You've merely expressed sarcasm & hoped that liberal sentiments will win you a debate. Fascinating.
See: http://www.anus.com/zine/nihilism/ http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/ http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/ http://www.anus.com/tribes/au/entry/29/Overview Posted by Incoherrant, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 12:47:14 PM
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http://www.anus.com/tribes/au/entry/17/Nationalism
"Reasons for exclusion need not be rooted in hatred, nor does nationalism in any way necessitate the view that one's own culture is more righteous than another. I do not see universal validity in any one culture (the culture of fashions implicitly yearned for by promoters of multiculturalism included). I recognise that people are not the same around the world - there is diversity, and this should be preserved both for its own sake and as a means of avoiding a pervasive anti-culture where the acquisition of money is seen as the good. I think our differences are real, to be celebrated, and should be protected. To say otherwise is to be a sadomasochistic bigot regarding race and culture."
"Communities should not be forced into sparse residence of suburbia, within which attempting to live as they would like while being absorbed into a new way of life. Multicultural societies do not allow for cultural diversity in the long run, for there must be significant compromise. Our new residents must adhere to the overriding dogma of liberal democracy that let them in, which effectively homogenises societies into tacky individualists following a culture that, unlike the low culture of the past, lacks continuity, ingenuity, and bases status on consumption rather than creation. After a few generations whatever culture is left will be commodified remnants; the 'richness' of multicultural societies has a lifespan."
"...those advocating multiculturalism are merely supporting small-scale, incomplete nationalism... They are fond of ethnic communities being able to preserve their culture, attend their own schools and churches, learn their language and their people's heritage, hold community events, et cetera. Yet they so vehemently oppose nationalism, which strives for the same goals, but recognises that to accomplish and preserve these communities need their own territory and leaders who represent a particular way of life."
I'm a moron, so when reading that I get offended & think that counts as legitimate rebuttal. What about you?
http://www.anus.com/tribes/arn/
http://www.anus.com/zine/db/race/race_and_culture.html
http://www.pan-nationalism.org/