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The Forum > General Discussion > School Shooting, Finland

School Shooting, Finland

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"Society Blames Others For Its Illness

Yet another teenager today tried to awaken a numb world with the sacrifice of himself and several other students, this time in southern Finland for that country's first school shooting1. He opened fire at his high school, killing eight people and wounding ten, before police surrounded the building and presumably took him out.

You are expected to stand there open-mouthed and wonder aloud, "But how could anybody do this? Why would they do this?" but this feeble cover is really no longer anything but transparent. We know why they do it: teenagers are the people who have not yet inherited an adult world that is totally dysfunctional, and so they often reject it through suicide and/or removal of a few of the most troublesome obstructions they encounter.

When Pekka-Eric Auvinen shot up his high school, he was sending a message with his self-sacrifice. It's a message that adults should heed, since ignoring problems has gotten us global pollution, climate change, political instability, ghettoes, a culture dominated by moronic television and music, constant ethnic strife, and so on. The list goes on. It's no wonder teenagers don't want to join your world that by virtue of its insistence on obliviousness produces completely retarded results consistently.

The teenager had warned that he was discontent with an adult world, and was recommended anti-depressants by a disinterested YouTube moderator2, despite the lack of conclusive proof that anti-depressants stop the cause of depression, which has been increasing in the modern time and is the leading cause of disability in industrialized nations3. While most sources look for treatment, few ask the obvious question: is it possible that depression has an external cause, like our society being ugly and/or heading into Rome-esque failure..."

http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/jokela/
Posted by Incoherrant, Thursday, 8 November 2007 2:20:19 PM
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Incoherrant said:

DYSFUNCTIONAL

>>an adult world that is totally dysfunctional, and so they z(teens) often reject it through suicide and/or removal of a few of the most troublesome obstructions they encounter. <<

This sounds like what Paul was addressing in his letter to the Ephesian Christians:

NATURAL HUMAN CONDITION.

Eph2:1 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts."

Then Incoherrant raises the important question:

THE QUESTION......
>>While most sources look for treatment, few ask the obvious question: is it possible that depression has an external cause, like our society being ugly and/or heading into Rome-esque failure..."<<

ERR..YES. It is not only possible.. it is an on-going fact a work in progress if you will...

Since we abandoned the best as well as the worst of the values of the 50s and the connection to our Christian traditions.... we cut the moral anchor rope.. and now we are adrift in the cruel sea of carnality and casual relationships.

There can only be one 'end' for us... and it IS Rome-esque.

SOLUTION. There is only one.

National repentance to Almighty God in and through the humble acceptance of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of our lives. To seek other solutions is to try to grab bubbles from the air.. we grasp..and they explode.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 9 November 2007 7:44:24 AM
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http://www.corrupt.org/act/campaigns/high_school_shootings-our_society_fails_bright_kids

http://www.corrupt.org/articles/politics/brett_stevens/breaking_the_glass_of_denial

Woah. Thoughts?
Posted by Incoherrant, Friday, 9 November 2007 10:59:05 AM
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BOAZ, I find your rants tedjous and have refrained in the past but- get lost PLEASE.
Next you will suggest we arm H/school kids and so prepare for the second coming?

I'll probably never know why these sicko's need involve others, they're
needs are beyond me and a civil society.
fluff4
Posted by fluff4, Friday, 9 November 2007 11:26:15 AM
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luckily, australian education standard is so poor that the kids don't get clever enough to become so passionate and do things like that.
maybe that's what Bob Hawke meant by "we must become the clever Country" and the idea of personal freedom means anyone can be as listless and useless as they choose as long as taxpayer funding continues. ah yeah, and Ruddie wants to throw in a laptop for every kiddie that shows no promise and mommie's on a supporting mother's pension.
Posted by individual, Friday, 9 November 2007 11:51:57 AM
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"Yet another teenager today tried to awaken a numb world with the sacrifice of himself and several other students..."

What a guy!

Before I just send you off to watch the most recent Saw movies because they always offer some excuse for the sick and twisted perversity of the main character I see that in your own way you might be onto something.

I believe there is a truth in there in that things have got pretty screwy recently. Guns are banned so that people don't open fire randomly but there have been guns for many centuries and people didn't open fire in their classrooms or do the other strange things until toward to the end of the last century. And it doesn't stop the news reports of the disadvantaged being set on fire for entertainment or women getting raped and urinated on. Something more is involved.

People aren't just catching depression the world is depressing and the news focusses on the most depressing news feeding and developing an appetite for the same.

Helping keep things together, and in some cases cause improvement, have been technology and governmental structures reaching new heights and a handful of influential good people like Martin Luther King but this only camoflages a sickness about our general society that parallels the decadent Romans. Even the basic family unit is under increasing threat with massive increases in divorces over the decades.

Kids often start off in broken homes (where boys get the depressing to them message that a father is redundant) and look forward to "global pollution, climate change, political instability, ghettoes, a culture dominated by moronic television and music, constant ethnic strife, and so on. The list goes on.". Meanwhile the pimple faced brats of the 60s who thought they new better than millenia of genius and common folk alike keep flogging a dead horse claiming more of their political correctness and other nonsense will solve the problem.
Posted by mjpb, Friday, 9 November 2007 12:41:14 PM
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My own boy's high school in 1970 had a school armoury which sported 100 Lee Enfield rifles and four Bren light machine guns. This was because my school was part of the school cadet program in which most private and about a third of public schools participated.

Teenage boys in school or cadet uniforms were routinely seen boarding buses and trains with military rifles on their shoulders, and nobody batted an eye.

Not only was the legal age to purchase a firearm 16 years of age, firearm licences did not exist and guns could be bought from the local men's hairdresser. There were even "boy's rifles" like the popular "Steven's favourite" which sported shortened stocks and barrels.

But there were no schools shootings, no school stabbings, and 100 teachers were not being assaulted every week by pupils, like in NSW schools today.

The reason for this difference was that a strict censorship regime prevented the media from submitting the ideas to immature kids that Real Men were violent men who took bloody revenge for any imagined grievance or slight, or that violent criminals were heroes to be admired and emulated.

If we as a society can understand that "incidental" smoking scenes in movies by movie stars can influence thousands of gullible young people who are desperate to present themselves with a positive adult self image, to take up smoking a cancer causing addictive drug, how can we not make the same conclusion about movies glamorising violence, sadism, and criminality?

"Incoherent's" (singularly appropriate name) little rant in which claims that society is all to blame for being cruel to teenagers is laughable. Got news for you bub. There is no Great Depression going on, our nation is not fighting a desperate war of survival, and we have never had it so good. If teenagers today are getting "depressed" today, it is because of the ingestion of expensive ilegal drugs. This is also being promoted by movies and the pop music industry, along with Hermes handbags, Ipod's, and Glocks.
Posted by redneck, Saturday, 10 November 2007 4:46:29 AM
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Well done, Redneck, I couldn't have made the point better myself. In the 'olden days', people could turn out either way, no matter what their upbringing or trauma experiences. Its too easy now to blame society and childhood wrongs for the psycho element amongst us.

mjbp, what has Martin Lucifer Koon got to do with it? This is not a race-related issue (anyone can go on a shooting spree), so bringing that covert communist's name up is puzzling. If you want to mention influential good people, there are many better examples. But that's not the subject of this thread so I'll leave it there.
Posted by Jack the Lad, Saturday, 10 November 2007 9:56:04 AM
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Jack,

I have never heard of any association between Martin Luther King and communism. Indeed communist leaders typically hate Christians so I don't expect a Christian to be a communist. One example of this hatred was when 14.5 million Ukranian Orthodox Christians were slaughtered by communists in the Soviet Union. Martin Luther King was a reverend so you can see why the idea would never crossed my mind.

That said I cited his example as in a sea of bad influential people he appeared to be a good one. He was apparently highly effectual in catalysing some of the problems of racism in his part of the world.

There may be better examples if (surprisingly) he is communist but he was one that came to mind.
Posted by mjpb, Thursday, 15 November 2007 11:58:53 AM
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Redneck: it wasn’t my rant, it was quoted. But I’m pleased you like the name. This is my rant. The claim was not that society is being ‘cruel’ to teenagers. But it is horrifically dysfunctional & does produce fatalistic offspring.

Look at Auvinen’s ‘Manifesto’ - http://atlantis.dreamland.org/~mnc/temp/jokela/ (note English was not his first language). He was frustrated with the design of society.

This is not a question of drugs. Most of the intelligent youth I know get down because they’re inheriting a disaster, & it’s going to take a hell of a lot of work to put it back on track & adapt to the already fixed consequences.

They live in a society obsessed with ‘growth’ and 'progression', with economics the indicator. But what if we judge our societies in terms of what they create, preserve, and how the populace feels? Does your suggestion that most kids today are depressed because of drugs not beg the question – why would most kids resort to drugs?

They notice the type of person our society tends to reward - concerned with little more than their own immediate distorted hedonism, whereby they gain what they are told is fulfilling and then, realising that it isn't, fill the void with large quantities of consumer goods, alcohol, work, 'new age spirituality', or holidays away from the society they hate.

They hear phrases like ‘live & let live’, but realise that the behaviour of each of us impact on the living of others. Some have to freedom, for instance, to mutilate the natural world provided they can play the bureaucratic game. Others have the freedom to leave it be. Everyone is exercising their freedom. See how the system is perfect? Live and let live!
Posted by Incoherrant, Saturday, 17 November 2007 10:22:50 AM
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With this attitude we get the obnoxious collage of mediocre creations that signify modern society: the onslaught of advertising in every sphere of life; the time and effort that goes into the manufacture of ridiculous products and the accompanying campaigns; the hideous, mammoth billboards that adorn public places; the turning of these spaces into ugly, cheap housing developments; books, covers loud and irrelevant, are lucky to last a week in tact; music - inferior, disposable. We have sacrificed quality because the profitable masses have few standards. They are told that stuff signifies status (liberal populations are conditioned to follow a particular model of the good life while being assured they have done so 'freely'), and so they just want stuff.

They see morons and fools free to exercise their purchasing power in whatever way they ‘choose’. And the freedom to vote, thereby determining what portions of the population are rewarded here and now, not the way in which the nation shall develop into a greater living entity. And what is democracy but a cathartic system for an inevitably divided society? Lacking a basis on which to gauge the value of ideas we find a government that can only profess the simplest ones, so as to not offend sections of its populace. As a secure democratic regime must be supported by a majority of its politically active citizens what is desired by most is proposed and followed, but this may bear no relation to what is in the interests of the country.

They see a mass of largely unintelligent, uneducated, irrational, and self-interested voters select which egotistical lawyer or economist advances their own political ‘career’. They see politicians jumping on the environmentalist bandwagon but utterly ignoring the greatest factors, such as population growth.

They see the quality of their fellow man plummeting, & realise that most people need to be told what to do & that popularity should never determine what is a good creation or a good idea. With some shiny things, television, and drugs to squander many are happy to 'kill time' until something kills them.
Posted by Incoherrant, Saturday, 17 November 2007 10:25:13 AM
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Individualism gets the government off the hook; the individual is now 'free', no longer constrained by community or cultural standards. If civilians do naughty things it is because they are selfish; if they do pointless things it is because they have found meaning in them; if they are unhappy it is because they are not utilising the plethora of cool opportunities and products that their society provides for them (or are druggies, apparently).

We have achieved in growing and in consuming more than ever. People are earning more money. People are spending more money. People are surrounded by more 'stuff'. Yet why do we want more of these things, if not for the good of the individual, the community or the environment? Have these things made happier citizens, or psychotically mediocre self-obsessed idiots and the odd genius suffering from adequate perception of their social surroundings? Have we produced functional, rewarding communities, or enforced fundamental division on a people, denied them the right to preserve a way of life away from fashions and social pretence and limited their perceptions of success to actions which contribute to brutal individualism? Have we preserved the environment that spawned us, sustains us and inspires us?

We have been screwed. Buildings reflect what trend prevailed the week they were planned. We are blasted with phenomenally crappy music while those who pretended to make it have 'succeeded'. Hundreds of thousands of people are streaming into our thoroughly overpopulated cities despite the obvious impact on sustainability & quality of life. We live in increasingly violent and senseless suburbs with little chance for community. The next generation appears not to give a damn about much at all. Is this surprising? They're living amongst the same utter shyt and waste of time that inspires an alcoholic culture amongst their elders. This is what happens when we allow people to pursue their own conception of 'the good' - they self-destruct, for we are social beings and surround one another with distasteful alternatives to our own model.
Posted by Incoherrant, Saturday, 17 November 2007 10:28:25 AM
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We need to clear our minds (www.anus.com) & remake modern society (www.corrupt.org).

Quote:
"I encourage all who read this to look critically at our society. Are we producing better people...? Are we producing great art, or did artists find a way to make Britney Spears-level junk art look profound? Are we producing culture, or an endless series of disingenuous hipsters who lack ideas because they're afraid of reality? Are we taking on the moral challenge to grow better like the ancient Greeks and Romans, or are we becoming fat, lazy and incompetent like the remains of third-world dictatorships?Are we using our technology to become better, or are we simply growing more (7 billion) people with barely enough intelligence to watch TV and perform menial jobs, while we consume planet earth?"
- http://www.corrupt.org/articles/poli...lass_of_denial

Quote:
"Another person added, "This tragedy needs to be viewed in the larger context of our insane society which produces this destruction rather than isolating it down to an individual and claim he was just a psychopath." ... without a connection to some shared ideal that is greater than the individual, human societies collapse into individualism -- a fancy word for "selfishness." Societies that decline tend to become more unstable and less reliable, while they drive to suicide anyone who can see the error of their path, and eventually devolve into third-world republics with average IQs of 89-94 points and no interesting future at all.

You can help make sure the victims of Jokela, and the shooter, are not forgotten, by acting on the message we've received from this event instead of ignoring it. To blame gun control, or a lone individual, for a problem that is so pervasive it happens worldwide, is madness. Our society has corrupted itself and is now of a bad design, and we need to fix that design before the collapse deepens. For more information, see www.corrupt.org."
- http://www.corrupt.org/news/response...er_was_correct

http://www.corrupt.org/act/campaigns/high_school_shootings-our_society_fails_bright_kids

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pZRZuHqBK0Q
Posted by Incoherrant, Saturday, 17 November 2007 10:31:32 AM
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mjpb, of course it was never public knowledge of MLK being a communist. He certainly had many communist associates and probably being a Christian preacher was his cover. Isn't the so-called 'battle against racism' a communist-inspired crusade?

You probably brought him to mind because of his manufactured image of good intentions and strong character, but image and intention are not always the same.
Posted by Jack the Lad, Saturday, 17 November 2007 11:31:16 AM
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