Boaz,

You said:
“If we look at the roots of the Palestinian problem, honestly, they began with Abraham”

For someone who claim to read a lot this comment is untrue and misleading. The history of Israel proves religion have nothing to do with it. Theodor Hertzel dream was a secular Israel which could have been anywhere (Australia, Africa and Latin America were all options at the time). The Palestinian problem started in 1948 with the rise of the Nazi (ironically started as a Christian movement) and the persecution of Jews.

The prophecy of the “the old will die and the young will forget” was quoted by Ben Gorion not Abraham. You can’t ignore masses feeling of injustice for 6 decades hoping it will go away. Hamas wouldn’t have any success if the two states solution was in place since 1948 (Hamas only appeared late 70’s).

The world (including Israelis) has come to terms that the 2 states solution is the best hope we all have for future peace and stability. The Bible is a spiritual reference and not a history book.

Peace,

FH... I'm aware of all that 'recent' history mate.. but if you dig deep enough.. my points will emerge as valid. It is my reading which supports my claim.

It depends a little on which 'dimension' of the Palestinian problem we are talking about actually. I pointed to the 'extreme poles' of the problem.. basically the views of the Settlers and the Hamas mob.

The thing is... they are both major players in the game.. so we cannot ignore their views when considering solutions.

You mentioned the world is at rest with a 2 state solution, and I tend to think that one one level this could work, but the sticking point .. (and this is where the digging is needed) will always come back to the Temple Mount, though this issue is usually camoflaged in the words "Status of Jerusalem".

So, I'm simply trying to point out what this problem involves, as in barriers and opportunities.

Bear in mind, I'm of the view that the Sovereignty of the Almighty will win out, and I don't see a whole lot to be gained by me personally rallying support for Israel so much, because my support is neither here nor there in the long run. But I enjoy a good stouche on he verbal level :)

I'm rather feeling euphoric at the moment :) no..I haven't started taking druggggs.. its a glorious 25 deg.. sunny, business is going well...most things under control... friends are a joy.. and I just managed to get rid of 2 of the four kittens harrasing my work area.
I'm looking forward to our end of year family holiday. The kids will catch 'whoppers' and I'll catch some walks and dvd's...and catch up with rellies... aaaah :)

Fellow_Human,

This lovely American girl is undoubtedly sincere. I doubt very much if she has even been in Palestinian territories. I have heard the same words used by similarly sincere people about other places of conflict in the world. Same words - different places - now so often as to appear banal and trite. Like other people, she comes from a place of security with neither knowledge nor experience of reality.

Many have first-hand experience; and these Arabs are increasingly speaking out, like: Nonie Darwish ( daughter of a jihadist “martyr”;and founder of “Arabs for Israel”), Rashid Khalidi, director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute, Dr Tawfik Hamid (former member of al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya terrorist organization), Professor Salim Mansur, Raji Sourani, (director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza), Khaleel Mohammed, Tashbih Sayyed, Walid Shoebat (former member of the militant wing of the PLO), Khaled Abu Toameh (an Israeli-Arab Journalist covering West Bank Territories and Gaza for Jerusalem Post, and previously a correspondent for PLO's Al-Fajr), Joseph Farrah (journalist), Sarah El-Shazly, Salma Abdallah, Ahmad Al-Qloushi, Zachariah Anani (another ex militant), and Wafa Sultan. The list continues ...

Why no mention of the Weismann-Faisal agreement of the 1919 Paris Peace Conference agreeing to a Jewish homeland, signed by both Emir Faisal , son of Sherif Hussein, leader of the Arab revolt against the Turks, also Keeper of the Holy Places, and Chaim Weismann and other Zionists? This agreement acknowledged:

“racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people” ... and ... “the surest means of working out the consumation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration of the development of the Arab states and Palestine (a Jewish state).”

In fulfilment of the Balfour Declaration, the agreement called upon measures to:

“encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale ... as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land ...”

This agreement was conditioned upon British wartime promises of Arab independence, which, tragically, were not kept.

cont ...

The fact that the leader of the Arab nationalist movement and the Zionist movement reached such a close understanding, indicates that Jewish and Arab aspirations are not mutually exclusive.

Last June, Muslim religious leader, Sheikh Hamad Al-Bitawi, issued a fatwa against Arabs leaving Palestinian territories - except temporarily for education.

PA Foreign Ministry spokesman, Ahmed Suboh, reported at a news conference in Ramallah, November 2006, that 10,000 Arabs had received permits from Western diplomats to enter their countries since July 2006; most were university graduates or able to invest financially in a new country. He called for a halt to the Arab brain drain, and confirmed some 45,000 more had requested permission to emigrate. 50 businesses have relocated. This due in part to economic mismanagement, but primarily to insecurity and ever present fear because of the constant violence and killing between the Fatah and Hamas terrorist groups, which indiscrimately kills bystanders.

One Palestinian observed that if you stopped your car, you had a gun pushed into your face. Not newsworthy enough to be reported in our press?

Why hasn’t the UN condemned the daily rocket attacks on Israel from where the terrorists have now bunkered down? The UN, as usual, remains silent ... is it because of the composition of its members?

Why it is that Palestinians living in Arab countries are treated with contempt, living in appalling circumstances, with none of the rights Arabs have in Israel? Indeed, they have no rights at all. Most have now been born on Arab soil. Why are they not considered nationals?

Sometime ago you questioned the actions of Israel against the Hezbollah in Lebanon; not taking them on in hand-to-hand combat. Your question is answered in:

“Combat Techniques: The SAS and Elite Forces Guide - modern infantry tactics, weapons and systems” (2007), ISBN -13: 978-1-86227-387-0

This manual confirms that the Israelis acted with the appropriate response. To have done otherwise would have resulted in unnecessary military deaths on both sides, massive civilian casualties, including greater and longer lasting damage to Lebanon’s infrastructure.

Pax as alway

Hey Dannielle.. I find your posts fascinating :)

r u plugged into the Evangelical Alliance email notifications ?
rl-research@crossnet.org.au

FH.. you might find the information uncovered from that source quite challenging and informative.

Its a great difficulty when people deep down want to find solutions to injustice and suffering, and they are more vulnerable to emotive speakers like this woman who is only portraying one side of the issue from what I can see.

Hi Danielle,

Thanks for your post.
My point above was to deal with root causes and to highlight that everyconflict is two sides. I am aware of the long term historical good relation between arabs and Jews. There are two points I am not sure I understand in the progress of the conflict. Would appreciate if you can clarify:

1. How does encouraging settlement of Jewish people in Palestine progress into separatism? One can claim that because of the civil war in Iraq we can absorb more Iraqi refugees. But are they entitled to declare part of Qld as an Iraqi state?

2. Post 1948 and the decision to partition Palestine, I believe Israel’s acquiring more Palestinian lands helps escalating the conflict. Do you have any views?

Re my previous comment on the Israeli Military operation against Hezbollah in Lebanon, (I am impressed you remembered it!), my point was this: the IDF resorted to the use of heavy military equipment, heavy shelling in highly populated areas to avoid military casualty on the Israeli side. Your article supports my view, I am confused now : - )

Boaz,

If you want to know my view on evangelism watch Dr. Gary Miller on Evangelism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7KUU6g5dzE (6 parts 55 minutes).

Peace as always,