A young American Muslim who have had enough lashes out in a public forum:

http://www.slide.com/r/zj6hDTbC6D_f_QqtDdBHsKzzc4ACnKaH

To the 'wack a Mossie brigade':
Beware, she is out there to get you :-)

While we're watching for video clips this one is always good for a laugh

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1313.htm

Then we have the usual apes and pigs bit

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1471.htm

And, of course, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1588.htm

Did you know that vaccination was a Jewish plot?

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1522.htm

Definitely not for the faint hearted, this is from the Syrian TV production, The Diaspora

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK6R4tT71PA

This one's even worse, especially the last few minutes where the Christian child is killed so his blood can be used to make Matzah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h2N2ycVjSQ

Moving away from videos, there is no political correctness in Saudi Arabian textbooks:

See:

This is a Saudi textbook. (After the intolerance was removed.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769.html

Quote:

"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."

*WHACK*.....Take 'that' you...you... "Muslim" :)

FH.. I'm not sure why you posted that.... I'd happily debate her.....

my my...the language..

She is palestinian Arab ? hmmm my major observation is that she is using the freedom of life in the USA and its privileges to have a whack at her host country, 'blaming' them... quite a bit. I wonder if she has looked up some of the 'speeches' of her contemporaries in the Gaza strip or West bank ? Or seen the Hezbollah vid on 'death to Israel'

I wonder what she would say about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hegazy

The first Egyptian Muslim to convert to Christ and seek government recognition for it. His trial starts on Nov 13th. His first lawyer threw in the towell because of death threats. (I didn't see that coming)

TRIAL ?... trial? for simply becoming Christian?

OR...

>>Bahaa El Din Al Akkad, a 57 year old egyptian, ex-muslim sheikh who converted to christianity more than a year ago, and was therefore arrested by State Security and thrown in Jail. No real charges, except "Blasphemy against Islam",<<

Background here:

http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/10/19/an-egyptian-muslim-sheikh-thrown-in-jail-for-converting-to-christianity/

If the woman wants to have a good 'rant'..I'd rather she did it on a platform in a Church last sunday during "World day of prayer for the persecuted Church".... and ranted against those who say "We once ruled the world..and we will rule it again"

cheers mate.

I did not find this speech very interesting. Just another poor me display that evades discussing what the 'moderates' are doing about the not so moderates (i.e. very little). We have had numerous posts on OLO that paint Christians as terrorist. Every day Christ is mocked on TV, radio, internet etc. Should we all claim the victim status? Not in your life. This woman would not even get a say in the Islamic run countries. She should be grateful for the freedom she has and not looking for sympathy from the Bush haters.

And G'day to you too Boaz.

The video took me by surprise and I was wondering how frustrated this young woman must have felt to lash out the way she did. In order to successfully integrate the new generation, we need to contain the prejudice and ignorance. There are so many people on different forums who still can't tell the difference between what's contemporary, radical, modern and orthodox.

For the record and on the case you mentioned; I think the freedom to change religion should be regulated and allowed freely in today's world. People change their faith everyday everywhere there is no point being in denial about it.

Go to youtube and put Gary Miller in the search. Since he chose to become a Muslim, Gary Miller have been coping with a lot of abuse (watch it on video) from his ex missionary brethren.

Peace,

Hi F.H....I had a peek... can't find much 'flack' from Christians against him.. or that he was arrested without trial etc.

I did a further search and found the following:

>>He started reading the Qur'an more thoroughly hoping to find a mistake but he was shocked when he read a great verse which is verse number 82 in Surat Al-Nisa'a (Women) that says:

“Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy”.

Dr Miller says about this verse: “One of the well known scientific principles is the principle of finding mistakes or looking for mistakes in a theory until it’s proved to be right (Falsification Test). What’s amazing is that the Holy Qur'an asks Muslims and non-muslims to try to find mistakes in this book and it tells them that they will never find any”. He also says about this verse: "No writer in the world has the courage to write a book and say that it’s empty of mistakes, but the Qur'an, on the contrary, tells you that it has no mistakes and asks you to try to find one and you won’t find any."<<

COMMENT:

1/ His points are unfounded. "No errors" :) u and I well know why also. 'ABBBBBrogation'.. i.e.. Surah A says ABC and Surah B says xyz on the same issue. Classic example is Surah 2 'loves' Christians Surah 9 (later) hates & curses us :)

2/ His research was shallow.. he went only to the 'book' (the symptom) and not to the more important issue "where did this book COME from?" and what about the character etc of the man who wrote it.

Aaaah.. we won't cover ground we already have done to death many times, but you know how I would react to this blokes claims.

You know...it is soooo predictable when Muslims write about 'Christians' who convert that they used words like "He was shocked"... "It astounded him"... "He was amazed"...."He used common sense".. "Logic"..."reason".....

The report was a well crafted piece of deliberate propoganda :)

Boaz,

Just hold for a second you misunderstood my quote.
I was answering your quote in a secular sense that people should be free to change religions as they do everyday without any form of discrimination.

PS: If you are still hot on comparative religion, watch Gary Miller lectures on youtube titled 'history of religions'. it will be a topic for our next Maccas lunch.

Peace,

Hi mate....

well..I did have a listen to some of his stuff.. not really impressed :) but sure.. we can have a "Big Gary" next time 0_-

cheers.

Many years ago I remember reading a piece about the cold war, it argued that, whether we are, "Australian individualists, or British laborists, conservatives, or progressives, socializing democrats or democratic socialists, white, black or yellow, we can all accept that human dignity and respect for the individual must be the focus of everything. I believe that, too.

Yet the question arises: how can we hope to unite people around a principle - respect for the individual - that is such a uniquely western concept? The answer, of course, is that it is not.

Hinduism demands that "no man do to another that which would be repugnant to himself." The Torah instructs us, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Zoroaster observed, "What I hold good for myself, I should for all." Confucius said, "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do unto others." Buddha taught us to consider others as ourselves. The Stoics of ancient Greece argued that all men are "equal persons in the great court of liberty." The Christian gospel demands, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." The Quran warns that a true believer must love for his brother what he loves for himself.

Finally, the world's first known legal code had as its announced purpose,"to cause justice to prevail and to ensure that the strong do not oppress the weak."

This is, we might think, the kind of legal system the world should develop now as a gift to the people of Iraq. In fact, it is the law code of Hammurabi, a gift civilisation received four thousand years ago from ancient Babylon, now known as Iraq. What are we doing wrong?

There is a growing world wide inter-faith movement respecting each faith’s basic tenets while maintaining each individual’s right to practice their own faith; it is recognised by the main religions as a way to peace – in the name of God.

Unfortunately, there are fundamentalist extremists and self-righteous bigots on all sides who haven’t got the capacity to think outside the square, let alone engage in rational and reasoned discourse.

What are we doing wrong? We have lost respect for peace and understanding.

Quite fascinating how the thread has kind of veeered off into the direction of

"we can all accept that human dignity and respect for the individual must be the focus of everything."

...as foxy related.

It's an interesting reaction to the speech of a Palestinian woman.

The nice platitudes listed by Foxy certainly reach to our hearts, and sound a warm note, but then as Q&A points out 'fundamentalists' cause the problem.

But the deeper root core problem is that certain belief systems are mutually exclusive and absolutely incompatable. So.. according to one belief system, the over-riding requirement of mankind is to 'follow that belief system' and after that.... all the 'be nice' stuff is then in appropriate context. (according to them)

In regard to the Judaistic and Christian position, the simple fact is, there are moral absolutes.

We have 2 basic choices in life.

1/ There are NO absolutes. Thus we are free to make up our own truths and morality.

2/ There ARE absolutes... God has revealed His standards and morality, and we have to define all our behavior in terms of how that behavior relates to Gods standards.

Now..point 1 above will lead us in to anarchy. Yep..it will. Person A believes he has the right to exploit and subordinate other persons for his own reasons.. to enhance his power, his lifestyle and wealth.
Who is to criticize him ? By what standard can he be attacked ?
Foxy might say to him "But Hinduism says, and Confucious says"..and so on... to which he replies "I don't believe those things" and simply gets back to his business of world domination.

Which of course, leads us to point "2"... "God has spoken" aah..now this also leads us down a difficult pathway, which is.. If there are TWO or more versions of "God has spoken" and those two versions are not only incompatible, but hostile to each other.. we have strife and violence possibly as one idea seeks to assert itself over the other.

.....continued/

PART 2

So,...... herein lies the problem and dilemna of the human condition.

NO there are no absolutes.. we are free.. PROBLEMS. (different versions of how things ought to be)

YES there are absolutes... we are free withIN those constraints. PROBLEMS (Different versions of what those absolutes are)

Does it surprise anyone that Jesus said "My kingdom....is NOT 'of' this world" :)

If we look around, we can clearly see that the ideal of 'respect for human dignity' is an extremely subjective concept. It also fails to recognize that one mans 'dignity' is another man's 'debauchery' and there aint no dignity in debauchery.

If we say "debauchery" is a subjective idea, then.. we could not have government...it would be impossible. Too many people would be at each others throats about what 'ought' to be.

If we look at the roots of the Palestinian problem, honestly, they began with Abraham.. from the moment that God said "I will give you (Abraham) this land" it created an 'us/them' mentality. This is unavoidable given human nature not matter how true the situation is.

From then on.... poeple simply choose the point in history which most suits their case and cause.. and argue on that basis.

God to Abraham: >>"To you and your desecendants I give this land as an inheritance forever"<< (Genesis)

Hamas Charter Part 3 Article 11

>>This is the status [of the land] in Islamic Shari’a, and it is similar to all lands conquered by Islam by force, and made thereby Waqf lands upon their conquest, for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection.<<

Now.. if anyone can see how the ideas Foxy espoused "respect for the dignity of man" can work under this polarization.. I'd be interested in hearing

Boaz,

You said:
“If we look at the roots of the Palestinian problem, honestly, they began with Abraham”

For someone who claim to read a lot this comment is untrue and misleading. The history of Israel proves religion have nothing to do with it. Theodor Hertzel dream was a secular Israel which could have been anywhere (Australia, Africa and Latin America were all options at the time). The Palestinian problem started in 1948 with the rise of the Nazi (ironically started as a Christian movement) and the persecution of Jews.

The prophecy of the “the old will die and the young will forget” was quoted by Ben Gorion not Abraham. You can’t ignore masses feeling of injustice for 6 decades hoping it will go away. Hamas wouldn’t have any success if the two states solution was in place since 1948 (Hamas only appeared late 70’s).

The world (including Israelis) has come to terms that the 2 states solution is the best hope we all have for future peace and stability. The Bible is a spiritual reference and not a history book.

Peace,

FH... I'm aware of all that 'recent' history mate.. but if you dig deep enough.. my points will emerge as valid. It is my reading which supports my claim.

It depends a little on which 'dimension' of the Palestinian problem we are talking about actually. I pointed to the 'extreme poles' of the problem.. basically the views of the Settlers and the Hamas mob.

The thing is... they are both major players in the game.. so we cannot ignore their views when considering solutions.

You mentioned the world is at rest with a 2 state solution, and I tend to think that one one level this could work, but the sticking point .. (and this is where the digging is needed) will always come back to the Temple Mount, though this issue is usually camoflaged in the words "Status of Jerusalem".

So, I'm simply trying to point out what this problem involves, as in barriers and opportunities.

Bear in mind, I'm of the view that the Sovereignty of the Almighty will win out, and I don't see a whole lot to be gained by me personally rallying support for Israel so much, because my support is neither here nor there in the long run. But I enjoy a good stouche on he verbal level :)

I'm rather feeling euphoric at the moment :) no..I haven't started taking druggggs.. its a glorious 25 deg.. sunny, business is going well...most things under control... friends are a joy.. and I just managed to get rid of 2 of the four kittens harrasing my work area.
I'm looking forward to our end of year family holiday. The kids will catch 'whoppers' and I'll catch some walks and dvd's...and catch up with rellies... aaaah :)

Fellow_Human,

This lovely American girl is undoubtedly sincere. I doubt very much if she has even been in Palestinian territories. I have heard the same words used by similarly sincere people about other places of conflict in the world. Same words - different places - now so often as to appear banal and trite. Like other people, she comes from a place of security with neither knowledge nor experience of reality.

Many have first-hand experience; and these Arabs are increasingly speaking out, like: Nonie Darwish ( daughter of a jihadist “martyr”;and founder of “Arabs for Israel”), Rashid Khalidi, director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute, Dr Tawfik Hamid (former member of al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya terrorist organization), Professor Salim Mansur, Raji Sourani, (director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza), Khaleel Mohammed, Tashbih Sayyed, Walid Shoebat (former member of the militant wing of the PLO), Khaled Abu Toameh (an Israeli-Arab Journalist covering West Bank Territories and Gaza for Jerusalem Post, and previously a correspondent for PLO's Al-Fajr), Joseph Farrah (journalist), Sarah El-Shazly, Salma Abdallah, Ahmad Al-Qloushi, Zachariah Anani (another ex militant), and Wafa Sultan. The list continues ...

Why no mention of the Weismann-Faisal agreement of the 1919 Paris Peace Conference agreeing to a Jewish homeland, signed by both Emir Faisal , son of Sherif Hussein, leader of the Arab revolt against the Turks, also Keeper of the Holy Places, and Chaim Weismann and other Zionists? This agreement acknowledged:

“racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people” ... and ... “the surest means of working out the consumation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration of the development of the Arab states and Palestine (a Jewish state).”

In fulfilment of the Balfour Declaration, the agreement called upon measures to:

“encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale ... as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land ...”

This agreement was conditioned upon British wartime promises of Arab independence, which, tragically, were not kept.

cont ...

The fact that the leader of the Arab nationalist movement and the Zionist movement reached such a close understanding, indicates that Jewish and Arab aspirations are not mutually exclusive.

Last June, Muslim religious leader, Sheikh Hamad Al-Bitawi, issued a fatwa against Arabs leaving Palestinian territories - except temporarily for education.

PA Foreign Ministry spokesman, Ahmed Suboh, reported at a news conference in Ramallah, November 2006, that 10,000 Arabs had received permits from Western diplomats to enter their countries since July 2006; most were university graduates or able to invest financially in a new country. He called for a halt to the Arab brain drain, and confirmed some 45,000 more had requested permission to emigrate. 50 businesses have relocated. This due in part to economic mismanagement, but primarily to insecurity and ever present fear because of the constant violence and killing between the Fatah and Hamas terrorist groups, which indiscrimately kills bystanders.

One Palestinian observed that if you stopped your car, you had a gun pushed into your face. Not newsworthy enough to be reported in our press?

Why hasn’t the UN condemned the daily rocket attacks on Israel from where the terrorists have now bunkered down? The UN, as usual, remains silent ... is it because of the composition of its members?

Why it is that Palestinians living in Arab countries are treated with contempt, living in appalling circumstances, with none of the rights Arabs have in Israel? Indeed, they have no rights at all. Most have now been born on Arab soil. Why are they not considered nationals?

Sometime ago you questioned the actions of Israel against the Hezbollah in Lebanon; not taking them on in hand-to-hand combat. Your question is answered in:

“Combat Techniques: The SAS and Elite Forces Guide - modern infantry tactics, weapons and systems” (2007), ISBN -13: 978-1-86227-387-0

This manual confirms that the Israelis acted with the appropriate response. To have done otherwise would have resulted in unnecessary military deaths on both sides, massive civilian casualties, including greater and longer lasting damage to Lebanon’s infrastructure.

Pax as alway

Hey Dannielle.. I find your posts fascinating :)

r u plugged into the Evangelical Alliance email notifications ?
rl-research@crossnet.org.au

FH.. you might find the information uncovered from that source quite challenging and informative.

Its a great difficulty when people deep down want to find solutions to injustice and suffering, and they are more vulnerable to emotive speakers like this woman who is only portraying one side of the issue from what I can see.

Hi Danielle,

Thanks for your post.
My point above was to deal with root causes and to highlight that everyconflict is two sides. I am aware of the long term historical good relation between arabs and Jews. There are two points I am not sure I understand in the progress of the conflict. Would appreciate if you can clarify:

1. How does encouraging settlement of Jewish people in Palestine progress into separatism? One can claim that because of the civil war in Iraq we can absorb more Iraqi refugees. But are they entitled to declare part of Qld as an Iraqi state?

2. Post 1948 and the decision to partition Palestine, I believe Israel’s acquiring more Palestinian lands helps escalating the conflict. Do you have any views?

Re my previous comment on the Israeli Military operation against Hezbollah in Lebanon, (I am impressed you remembered it!), my point was this: the IDF resorted to the use of heavy military equipment, heavy shelling in highly populated areas to avoid military casualty on the Israeli side. Your article supports my view, I am confused now : - )

Boaz,

If you want to know my view on evangelism watch Dr. Gary Miller on Evangelism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7KUU6g5dzE (6 parts 55 minutes).

Peace as always,