Pericles

When you sort out the chaff from the wheat in everything you've said, this what it amounts to:

1. My son's firm is really happy with him as manager: productivity is up and the shareholders are delighted with their improved dividends.
2. My son is happy because he is running a big enterprise very successfully and he gets great job satisfaction.
3. The workers are happy because they are taking home a fair pay for a fair day's work and know where they stand with their employment conditions.
4. The union is happy because they are doing a good job negotiating excellent terms on behalf of their members.
5. The Government is very happy because the company pays its taxes on time and their export earnings are among the best in the nation.

6. Pericles is not happy because he knows better than all the above and can't get his mind around the fact that the interested parties are cooperating to produce a good all-round outcome. Oh, and the union (wash your mouth out!) is playing a part.

Ah, well! You can't keep everyone happy.

We have good unions and bad unions we also have good bosses and bad bosses.
You must be careful in talking about the differences in unions or you will be censored but the truth remains in place.
Workchoices was a mistake that hurt workers as much as it hurts Howard now.
Unions will continue to exist and the good ones grow, my enmity to those who are not good unions, who hurt workers by actions that are indeed thuggish remain.
But are matched by actions of bad bosses every day.
Down on the ground ,the workshop floor the debate is real the results are too, who else but unions cares if the boss insults his workers hourly?
why is it wrong to demand it stop?

On the contrary, FrankGol, I am blissfully happy that all is so beautiful in your son's garden. It must be those sandals.

However, I reserve the right to disbelieve you on a couple of points, one of which is that the unions are a necessary part of this model company.

All of the points you make - except of course the happiness attributed to the unions - are part and parcel of any well-run business. What you haven't been able to explain is what it is that the unions provide, that management cannot.

What is the missing element that they provide, that a modern, aware and above all competent, management cannot?

What is it that they bring to the table that shouldn't, in a proper business, be there already?

I'm asking what, exactly, is the fairy dust?

It shouldn't be knowledge and understanding of the business, its competitors or its regulatory environment; management should know that.

It shouldn't be knowledge and understanding of the needs and concerns of the employees; management should know that.

Given that we are no longer in the dark ages in terms of industrial development, what, exactly, is the value to the business of separating the workers from the management by communicating only through the union's mouthpiece?

Who benefits?

Apart from those happy union officials, of course.

Pericles

I’m glad I’ve made you happy – except you complain that I haven’t told you what unions do that management don’t.

The obvious answer is that unions' prime role is to protect and further the interests of their members. That is, they do exactly what the Australian Bankers’ Association do, or the Australian Chamber of Commerce & Industry, or the Australian Industry Group, or the Business Council of Australia or the National Farmers Federation.

Although unions come in all shapes and sizes ranging from the AMA, the Bar Council, the CFMEU, the AEU, the Nurses Federation, the Police Association, the AWU and the SDA, they all do the same sort of things.

Unions:

1. negotiate better wages and work conditions than employers might care to offer;
2. ensure that workplaces are safe and healthy and raise awareness about these issues among both workers and employers;
3. protect against unfair treatment including unfair dismissal;
4. act as advocates in matters such as redundancy pay, compensation and superannuation rights when enterprises go belly up;
5. provide expert advice to members on all of the above, and especially act for workers in disputes;
6. negotiate consumer discounts for members;
7. lobby governments on improvements to workplace laws.

You may be interested to know that In Australia today, Union members

• earn on average $118 a week more than non-union employees in similar jobs;
• get better sick leave and holiday leave entitlements;
• are more likely to receive long service leave and paid maternity leave;
• are safer at work;
• are better trained, have better working conditions and more job security.

Are you happier now? Shouldn't you be joining today?

"You may be interested to know that In Australia today, Union members

• earn on average $118 a week more than non-union employees in similar jobs;
• get better sick leave and holiday leave entitlements;
• are more likely to receive long service leave and paid maternity leave;
• are safer at work;
• are better trained, have better working conditions and more job security."

I'd appreciate seeing your evidence for those claims Frank. Care to oblige?

Thanks.

Ditch

I take it you’re serious in your quest for information about unions, rather than just a time-waster. So here’s some sources of information about union benefits and some commentary. You don't normally find this information in the daily press.

ACTU:
http://www.actu.asn.au/joinaunion/UnionMembership/default.aspx

Evatt Foundation:
http://evatt.labor.net.au/publications/papers/175.html

ABS:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/6310.0Media%20Release1Aug%202006?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6310.0&issue=Aug%202006&num=&view=

Speech on unions and WorkChoices by Senator FAULKNER Senate Hansard 29 November 2005

Mark Bahnisch, “Just how unpopular are the dreaded unions?”
Crikey.com 15 June 2007

Pericles,

This reference might interest you too:

Stephen Mayne, (founder of Crikey, member of the MEAA and Independent candidate for Higgins – Peter Costello’s seat), compiled a list of “Unionists who cross the Rubicon”, Crikey.com 29 March 2006. In that article, Mayne provides an extensive list of former union leaders who now work in management.

It’s worth reading his introductory paragraph:

“Industrial Relations can make or break a business. Look behind successful companies like Grocon, Linfox, Multiplex and Westfield and you'll find IR managers who understand the unions and how to stay sweet with them. It's not unusual for these managers to have risen through the ranks of union officialdom themselves, and it is this familiarity that make them a potent weapon in the hands of business. Here we list former union officials who have crossed the rubicon into management...”

His long list is frequently up-dated.

Liberal sympathisers who comment on the current lack of talent in the State Liberal Parties often comment on how the ALP gets a huge advantage by having young men and women learning important skills (management, relationships, organisational, debating, communication, personal, etc) in the unions before entering parliaments.