Well said Wobbles. Have you ever met a non-unionist who refused to put their hand out to accept the benefits won by unions? Neither have I.

When I meet people who have been sacked unfairly or been given a really hard time by an unscrupulous employer, my heart sinks when they answer "No" to my first question, "Are you a member of the union?" It's like a family whose house has been burnt down weeping when they realise that they neglected to take out insurance. Tragic.

“I'm not a massive unionist, but I also don't have any faith in my employer to do right by me if it comes to the crunch.”

Likewise StG.

Most posters are polarised for or against unions, but the truth is that there are advantages and disadvantages and that a balance somewhere in the middle ground would provide the best overall outcome.

“How many of these were just spontaneously handed out by philanthropic employers and governments? None?”

Agreed wobbles.

But there are downsides to the things that you mention, such as enormous pressure sometimes being exerted on employers, threats to viability or reasonable profit margins, work efficiency, etc, etc.

Don't condemn unions, but don’t worship them either.

One day we may be able to debate unions with understanding and truth, to know not all unions carry the brand of extremism.
That the industrial relations world DEMOS see,s does not exist.
Yes once most unions had roots in Communism or Socialism, the only Way in the years 1900, to at least 1950 to get results from employers who almost thought they owned workers.
Who won the 40 hour week? who took the need for 4 hours work on Saturday away?
Now is it not clear the 38, and 36 hour week came via unions?
Our lifestyle changes have been good for this country.
Workplace warfare? it is not true! unless and until no other way exists to be heard.
Would DEMOS know some small country town workers will get a warning in the last pay week before the election?
Vote Labor and do not come to work on Monday!
Can it be any here do not understand the actions of bad unions are just that, dreadful!
But surely you know the actions of bad bosses are just as likely and just as bad?
Why ignore the bosses unions?
The power behind workchoices.
How can we judge unions as always wrong and the other side as always right?
Come DEMOS with me to reality, see the resolution of disputes based on just fair minded discussion, hardly your view of IR.
The lie Howard and Costello sell on this subject is known by them to be a lie.
Yes like me they know it is just not true.
Even the thugs and mugs union ,[my true lifetime view of them] has no power to turn Rudd.
And for that I am grateful.

Take a look at what the nurses have achieved in Victoria. They've improved staffing conditions in hospitals and now their salaries are comparable with nurses in other states. Could they have achieved all that without a union?

If only I could take the most anti union posters to work with me, yes then they could go with some Ferrel's in the movement but a balance and understanding would result.
Just one workplace warfare story.
A very big job using cheapest contractors.
One key contractor is not giving meal breaks, gear is unsafe trucks have bald tyers.
Lack of personal protective clothing, even sun screen for out door workers.
Unions have the power even now to stop that job, take away the key contractor that stops the job.
It did not happen.
Prime contractor was informed of issues and told without action we stop it on Monday.
They agreed.
Contractor agreed to use three day shut down to fix every issue.
Would union haters want unsafe practices to kill?
Or is there merit in closing a job down if it can be fixed without danger in closed down times on weekends?
Fair go blokes most unions are just workplace insurance.
The difference is some very small minority's would wait till Monday and stop the job just to prove they can do it.

Dear Belly,

If unions would have been around in my dad's day - he might have had it a bit easier, and be still alive today. Dad worked in a rubber tyre factory, double shifts, and died of a massive coronary at the age of 52. I remember the conditions he had to work under - it was a nightmare...today things would have been different - that much I know!
Sure, unions aren't perfect - but what is? But as you wrote - it's the only insurance we have.