"I don't mind your harsh words... I feel compassion for you.. after all, going around in political or philosophical circles with the overall directiong being 'nowhere' is not something to be envied, and definitely something to be addressed with a message which can save a person from it, and the Gospel of Christ is that message. The great thing about the Gospel also, (and our free society) is that you and anyone can just say 'get lost'... but don't try to shut people up on a forum please."

Oh shut up David, for crying out loud. You are a pest and a bore!

Onya Ditch... please remember this thread...is.. 'errr Jesus' ....

I was listening to a good talk before where the speaker related an even in Speakers Corner many years ago.

The methodist lay preacher went there every week.. and during the height of the 'Communisms is good' era a communist nearby noticed a derelict in an old scruffy coat and said to the preacher "Communism will put a NEW COAT on that man"...

without hesitating the preacher said "and Christ will put a new MAN in that coat"

The gospel...and those who proclaim it.. can be offensive.. but lets hope you can see past the offense.. to the one on whom all our offensiveness was placed...on a cross and in giving your life to Him, become one of those 'new men'.

Spanky: " just wanted to find out why all the discussions here, were leading to matters involving religion...thats all."

Clearly, it's because a small number of religious fanatics regard it as their duty to preach their delusions to the rest of us, with the futile intention of converting rational people to their primitive belief systems. To do this, they will shamelessly hijack any discussion at all and turn it into one about their imaginary friends and/or fairy tales.

Interestingly, the main offenders are exclusively Christian. I can't recall reading similar proselytising rubbish here from Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Ba'hais and so on. That's probably why I find fundamentalist Christianity to be more offensive than the other forms of organised delusion - simply because some people try to shove it down my digital throat on a daily basis.

Hopefully, one day the godbotherers will realise that their actions turn far more people away from their dotty beliefs than they will ever attract through their preaching and ranting.

You keep on saying it Boaz, but it still doesn't make it right.

>>Why do religions need to own God'? I suppose it might be like for Marxists who like to 'own' atheism ?<<

Now where, for goodness' sake, does it say anywhere in the Marxist creed, that they like to "own" atheism?

Atheism is a word of two parts. The a- indicates "without", as in aphasia, anaemia. The -theism means "belief in the existence of a god or gods, [esp] belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world"

No-one can own atheism, even if they wanted to or claimed to (which, as I said, I sincerely doubt). It is - unlike religion - a very personal thing, a decision that one has arrived at through thought and contemplation, rather than through evangelism, or even coercion, bullying or blackmail.

And this is pure evangelistic bunkum.

>>Discovering which is true.. is the best thing mankind can do.<<

Which religion you join, Boaz, is first of all an accident of birth. If you were born in Topeka, KS, you are far more likely to be a Pentecostalist than a Hindu, for example. After all, it is extraordinarily rare for a parent or a school to say "hey, we're Pentecostalists, but you wait and make up your own mind, as soon as you are old enough to figure it out."

"Changing religions" is, I believe, a relatively rare event - if anyone has done any statistical work on this, I'd of course be interested. Rejecting religion in favour of an atheistic or agnostic position is more common, but is not the result of atheist or agnostic evangelism. There's simply no such thing, because you cannot evangelize a non-belief system. It just doesn't stack up.

You can encourage people to think, rather than simply "have faith", but where that faith is strong - i.e. the individual feels that it is a necessary part of their make-up - rationality cannot win.

But that faith also tends to be to a particular brand. Atheism isn't a brand.

"The gospel...and those who proclaim it.. can be offensive.."

You just don't get it do you David. It isn't the gospel that's offensive, it's your proselytizing. It's the constant, predictable pushing of your fundamentalist views in this forum that is offensive. The comment by CJ Morgan above is right. You are doing more to turn people off your views than on to them. And that is why you are naive. You think we are going to swallow your preaching because you keep repeating it. No. That is not going to happen.

Members of this forum are intelligent enough to think for themselves. They do not need a self righteous evangelist to do it for them.

Dont be a "snivelling" Ditch. Its what christians do again and again and again...
Its how the Holy Spirit leads christians.
If you dont know Jesus when you pass on, it can be the outer darkness or the pits. We really dont want to see you guys there.
Look up Mary K Baxter...take the time... read her story of going to hell. Every night for 40 nights The Lord appeared at her bed and took her down into hell to show her what happens to the sinner who rejects God. Pits full of people all looking like skeletons and all with flames moving up over their bodies. Many lukewarm pastors and congregationalists in the USA turned back to Christ through her later public testimony of her journey.
God is a very Holy God and men who reject Jesus and trample their consciences to do what feels good are in big trouble. Best to be friends with God through Jesus Christ. "Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved"...Romans 10:13. In need? Jesus is just a prayer away. Get serious with Him today. Invite Him in and get set free.
Mary K Baxter Ditch...have the grit to read her testimony.