Hi Everyone,

This discussion has 3 parts, and I'd like to know what you all think.

What is your position on sanctions and regime changes?
Is it right to make war against nations in an underhanded nefarious manner?
Is it right to target nations through trade and to impose collective punishment of the citizenry?

What is your position on religions and those active in attaining 'End Times prophecies'?
Should the modern world and the non-religious accept ideologies which end up with the whole world blown up, without criticism, under the cover of 'freedom of religion'?

And how should we feel about military contractors, who arm states that are engaged in wrongdoing, such as bombing all their neighbours, genocide and ethnic cleansing, targeting embassies, consulates, journalists, schools, hospitals, and women and kids?

Hi AC,

What you ask relates to Trumps America, and his call to MAGA. No I don't agree with the bully boy tactics. Trump has no respect for world order, other people, or international law, he believes America is the master race, with the right to dominate, and all should serve American interest. That applies to both "friend" and foe. The fact is there is a mad man in the White House.

p/s With the situation in the Middle East, both Russia and China are showing a huge amount of restraint. China in particular should be demanding action, as America has cut off its oil supplies, which are vital to China's economy. Imagine if China had taken some punitive action that threatened the American economy in the way America has done to it and the rest of the world.

See how America is exploiting Venezuelan oil, and totally controlling the countries economy. The vast majority of Venezuelans are living in abject poverty as the parasites plunder the wealth of the nation.

Hi Paul,
Actually, Chinese-linked ships have continued to transit the Strait of Hormuz during the ongoing Iran conflict, with some vessels specifically identifying themselves as "Chinese" to avoid being targeted by Iranian forces.

I support the multipolar world, not the U.S. / Zionist dominated unipolar world.
I want all nations and peoples to be treated with respect, decency and dignity.
Some don't deserve it, they instead deserve criticism.

Hi AC, thanks for that info, I wasn't aware.

China as the worlds biggest buyer, and second largest consumer of oil has put itself in a better position than many other countries through strategic planning of energy. With only 10% of its total coming from the ME, the majority from internal production and the Russian pipeline 20%. China also has a huge stockpile of oil, anticipating Mad Donald, they increased imports by 16% in January/February to boost stocks, smart move. Plus they have 46 million barrels of Iran oil in tankers in the South China Sea.

What should I do, I've got a bit of a problem with me next door neighbour, Donald, tells me he's a good mate of mine, any time I need help just call. I did that at Xmas putting up the back fence, well Donald came over, sat in the shade, and drank all of my beer, no help with the fence. Recently Donald has taken to putting his garbage in my bin, in fact he throws my garbage over me front fence and put his in its place, says his bin isn't big enough, big pile of rotting garbage in my front yard now. Yesterday Donald came over and set me garden shed on fire, nearly burnt me house down, said it was a bit of a joke, I didn't see the funny side. Probably the cruncher was last week when Donald banged on the door, and said; "I want to borrow the misses for the night, mines gone away for a month, and you know I'm not getten none, I'll bring her back when I'm finished." I said nom but Donald took her anyway. I know he's a good mate, he told me so! Any advice?

Hi AC,

Iran is a horrible regime that has been sponsoring international terrorism, destabilising the Middle East, and murdering and terrorising its own citizens for the best part of half a century. Its Islamic neighbours are seeing the real regime and see no justification for the attacks by Iran against them.

The only shame in this is the inaction of so many democratic nations that could render assistance to destroy the regime and make the world more peaceful sooner.

China and Russia are assisting Iran, but the war in Ukraine has reduced the assistance significantly. The Iranian regime is getting smashed and the action of the US and Israel is morally justified.

The action of nations like the US and Israel underpin the freedoms of people like you and me AC. China and Russia would see us oppressed and living in fear.

Hi Fester,

You can't kill innocent women and children and then claim moral justification. Everything is cause and effect, "Iran is a horrible regime that has been sponsoring international terrorism, destabilising the Middle East, and murdering and terrorising its own citizens for the best part of half a century." The question is what caused that terrible regime to develop in the first place? Nothing happens in spontaneous isolation, today's terrible regime, is the result of a past terrible regime, of which Western imperial powers particularly Britain and America must take some responsibility for. We pocked and prodded the snake for long enough, to our advantage, now the snake is lashing out at us, it seems we must now kill the snake.

For how long have the misinformed on this forum claimed Islam is one gigantic homogeneous religious block, when in fact its made up of many differing groups/sects, with differing attitudes and beliefs. Not the least is the differences between Sunni and Shia which stretch back 1300 years, the Iranians and its supporters being Shia, and the Muslim countries they are attacking being Sunni, and they don't like each other. And within the two main sects there are sub sects, with differing views. Christianity had the same problem for hundreds of years with Catholics and Protestants, how many died because of that.

So, I'm looking at our clown leaders and trying to figure out what message they're sending...

Albo was the first off the blocks to give his thumbs up for Trumps war of aggression attacking and killing the Iranian Supreme leader and his family in their own home...

And now

Chris Bowen declares rush on jerry cans ‘un-Australian’ as he urges end to panic buying of petrol
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-03-19/anthony-albanese-iran-fuel-prices-budget-jim-chalmers/106464080

First to cheer on the attack, first to cower away (sensibly)
look over there at the trees, look down at the ground
You need help America, nope sorry - no can do.
We're not looking to be your cannon fodder on a suicide mission, no.
But we hope it works out, tootles.

This Chris Bowen bloke..
Who is he to define what is and isn't Australian?
Was this bloke absent for the great Covid toilet roll rush

'Send out a warning to try and scare them, tell 'em their insurance might be voided if the keep mower fuel at home'
'Tell 'em their all un-Australian',

And I'm thinking to myself 'these morons supported firing the opening shots that didn't just kill the leader of the country and his family, but also a double tap strike on a girls school and their parents when they rushed to save them'....

They said 'No-one could have predicted Iran's response...'
OMG

And I think to myself 'What did they think OPERATION TRUE PROMISE 4' meant?
Did they not see what Iran did last time, and what they said they would do if there was a next time?

And now they're telling me 'do not buy extra fuel, do not prepare for 'just in case''

What did they expect Iran to do.

Thrown themselves on the ground and roll around in a puddle of their own soilings, like Albo did the moment he was asked for help

CLOWNS

Hi Paul,

You might claim that the murdering psychopath was created by the US and Israel, but I think that amounts to victim blaming.

"You can't kill innocent women and children and then claim moral justification."

On that basis there would be no moral justification for responding to any act of aggression with lethal force, as with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. What might make the deaths immoral is deliberate targeting of innocent people. Iran does that as a matter of policy, but that would seem to be excused by you because it's all the fault of Israel and the US by your reasoning.

"For how long have the misinformed on this forum claimed Islam is one gigantic homogeneous religious block"

I don't recall people claiming any such thing. What Iran's neighbours have expressed concern about are the attacks by Iran against civilians and fossil fuel production and transport, an act of international terrorism.

Where is the moral justification for a government calling for the extermination of Jews and the destruction of Israel? Oh, that's right, the Jews brought it all on themselves, didn't they?

It looks like many democratic nations are coming to the realisation that Iran's terrorist regime cannot be allowed to keep reigning terror upon all and sundry.

Hi Fester,

Deliberate targeting by Iran... YES. Deliberate targeting by Israel... YES. Deliberate targeting by America... YES. None of it is right, its ALL morally reprehensible, in my view. There is no moral justification for killing innocent people. You may believe the ends justifies the means, I don't see it that way.

"Oh, that's right, the Jews brought it all on themselves, didn't they?" No, not entirely in my view, others played their part in what is a disgusting situation in the Middle East today.

"Islam is one gigantic homogeneous religious block"

"I (Fester) don't recall people claiming any such thing." you must not be reading the comments by our resident "Islamic Expert" ' the ignorant Bezza, and a couple of others, who believe all 2 billion Muslims are bad (just like the Lovely Pauline claims), all have a single purpose, that is to takeover the world, and exterminate everyone else. Suddenly we've found millions of good Muslims in the Middle East, a case of my enemies, enemy is my friend.

Hi Fester,
I think it's kind of curious how you and I completely disagree on just about everything but we can still be friendly towards each other.
- And it's not just that we disagree is it?
it's also that we both wholehearted believe our positions are right and nothing the other says will likely change each others positions.
- And I see it more as an opportunity to learn something I suppose, or at the very least I should..
See it as an opportunity to learn something rather than it be a reason to argue or for conflict.

"The action of nations like the US and Israel underpin the freedoms of people like you and me AC. China and Russia would see us oppressed and living in fear."

- I don't think so.
I think Netayahu and a compliant West have been over there having their wars and stirring up all the Muslims like beating on a Hornets's nest for the past 3 decades plotting and scheming and playing people off against each other, starting conflicts in and between neighbouring states using some groups as fighters and then hanging them out to dry when it suits.
And in Iran, long before that too.
Iran's real attempt at democracy was with Mohammad Mosaddeq, and the West had probably been exploiting them long before that.

>>Mohammad Mosaddeq was the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran (1951–1953) who championed sovereignty, constitutional rule, and the nationalization of Iran's oil industry, challenging British control. His popular, nationalist government was overthrown in a 1953 CIA-backed coup, which many view as a crucial, destructive turning point for democracy in Iran.<<

[Cont.]

On the matter of oil tycoons.. democracy.. and 'national interests'
If Iranians voted this bloke in, and his election promise was to stop foreign companies taking all the nations wealth...
Which is more important?
What the people wanted - to take more of what they considered theirs, or the foreign company that invested a million dollars to build a well, and believed this bought a right to have the lions share flowing into their foreign pockets forever?
And would go to war with that country to install a government that supports their 'national interests'? (money flowing)

Empires don't last forever, they rise and fall.
America's in it's final days, the worlds headed for more conflict.
You can cling onto the old and we can all go down with the ship.
Or we can instead think for ourselves about what would be best and what comes next.

I support a multipolar world, one where all peoples have their own nations, where everyone gets a seat at a big round table, not a long one with a bully sitting at the head of it, and everyone else sitting in quiet subservience.

Hi Paul,

"the Iranians and its supporters being Shia, and the Muslim countries they are attacking being Sunni, and they don't like each other."

Well I think its just as much a military strategy as much as anything.
US / Israel V's Iran, with the Gulf states having U.S. bases, oil supply, air defence, ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance) and launch attacks against Iran from, and they probably see the U.S. and Israel as being in cahoots against them and the Gulf nations + Iraq and Jordan as being complicit also having U.S. bases.
They've looked at all of this, plus all the targets in Israel and worked out a foolproof plan.

They've pre-planned and scripted this entire war.
Wave after wave, target after target, with the ability for each smaller group capable of functioning without a command structure.
Looked at everyone's strengths and weaknesses, and charted a course to not lose.
Everyone's replacement is already trained, and their replacement too.
First they needed to target U.S. bases, command and control, get them to exhaust their supply of missile interceptors, and target all their radars.
The Gulf countries are legitimate targets because they host U.S. bases.

U.S. bases in the region do not have underground bunkers, soldiers were being sent to hotels, that's why hotels were targeted. CIA bases, anyone connected to the U.S. military target rich environment.

They also had to stay in control of escalation dominance.
So anytime they were punched, they had to punch back harder.

Google? 'Israel and Iran targeting banks'

AI Overview
Israel and Iran are actively targeting each other's financial infrastructure as part of an escalating economic war
. Israel has identified the Central Bank of Iran and institutions like Bank Sepah as kinetic military targets, while also targeting Hezbollah-linked banks. Iran has threatened to target US and Israeli banks and economic centers, specifically after accusing them of striking Iranian banks.

[Cont.]

Key Developments in Financial Targeting
Israeli Action: Israeli officials have designated the Central Bank of Iran and affiliated entities as terrorist entities, signaling potential kinetic military strikes, notes Geopolitical Monitor. Reports suggest an apparent cyberattack hit Bank Melli, causing widespread service disruption, notes Geopolitical Monitor.
Iranian Retaliation Threats: Following what Iran called a strike on one of its banks by the US and Israel, Tehran announced it would target American and Israeli economic centers and banks in the region, according to [link]. Iranian officials warned individuals to stay at least one kilometer away from such institutions.

It means if the West blows up an apartment building in Iran, Iran has to counterstrike harder in response..
That Iran are the ones attacking now, not merely defending the Wests attacks.
Hospitals, Energy Refineries and Ports, Water Treatment, even so far as if Iran is hit with a nuke, they will hit Dimona with a dozen 2 tonne hypersonic missiles.

Right now they are beating on each other.
As of yesterday they're up to wave 65.
(Though I'm not sure they exactly follow sequential order)
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2026/03/19/765587/true-promise-4-iran-resistance-axis-ops-against-us-israeli-sites-mar-19

This whole Idea of unblocking the strait is pretty stupid.
Because Iran's dead hand is 'blow everything in the gulf up'.
There won't be any ports or refineries or wells not on fire.
Bring the West to it's knees, let the whole economic system implode, teach America a lesson, 'You existed here because we allow it, we control the strait and we can smack you and Israel down anytime we choose, and you have stretched our patience.
America has no choice, it can't be seen to back down now.

The only way to truly beat America is economically
And so, - long war, exactly what the West or Trump (and his midterms) DOESN'T WANT.

Iran aren't just 'blowing things up'
They are following a very carefully crafted master plan.

Hi AC,

"I think it's kind of curious how you and I completely disagree on just about everything but we can still be friendly towards each other."

So true, but my view of this is that despite having opposite views on just about everything, we both like people and want to see a better world. Divided by politics and united by humanity if you like.

In the case of the Iran war, I view Iran's attacks on fossil fuel production and exports as international terrorism with the objective of forcing Israel and the US to back down. A regime so willing to hold the world to ransom will always be a danger.

Trump remarked on Pearl Harbour in Japan, but note that after being defeated by the US, Japan has become a prosperous democracy. I believe that ordinary Iranians have the most to lose if the regime stays in place.

So true, but my view of this is that despite having opposite views on just about everything, we both like people and want to see a better world. Divided by politics and united by humanity if you like.

- Yeah, I think something like that.
Like we're both trying to get to a better place maybe
but essentially just disagree on how to get there...

Hi Fester,
"In the case of the Iran war, I view Iran's attacks on fossil fuel production and exports as international terrorism with the objective of forcing Israel and the US to back down. A regime so willing to hold the world to ransom will always be a danger."

'Like calling it a regime will make me support attacking it'...
- So that I'm ok with it and that someone gained my silent approval to bomb them'?

But they're not the real keywords in your comment.
The keywords were 'International terrorism', your words.

Going back before February 28,
Before the U.S. and Israel killed the Ayatollah and 170 schoolgirls / parents....

Q: Was Iran attacking fossil fuel production and exports prior to Feb 28?
A: Nope

But then...

Q: Were we, 'the West' attacking Iran's fossil fuel production and exports?
A: Yes we were, via sanctions.

- And you've just stated that you consider that act 'international terrorism'.
What do we do with that?
Reflect on it?

Isn't it funny how when others DO TO US EXACTLY what we're doing to them, and the somehow we see it in a completely different way?

We've been doing this to them for like forever right, with sanctions [shrugs]
Now they're sanctioning us?

And what is it 3 weeks after WE
(Or specifically the U.S. and Israel, we played cheerleader)
ATTTACKED THEM (another inconvenient fact)

... and we're now saying THEY'RE international terrorists because they've only done to us what we been doing to them for years?

Terrorism?
It might also be karma, right?

And all this over Irans 'nuclear' ambitions...
- Trump himself backed out of the JCPOA

And...
There's a plan to take out Iran going back since 9/!! and prior under the Clean Break Policy Document, 'The (real) War on Terror' and later in Brookings Institute 'Which Path to Persia?'

Furthermore, Trumps 'Heritage Foundation Project 2025' plans to dominate global oil.

Iran war is Greater Israel and Nordstream Part 2 all rolled into one..

See where sanctions and overthows lead us?
(and not by accident, by design)

Look at the JCPOA as well.

That agreement gave Iran sanctions relief in return for non-enrichment
Does sanctions relief also mean 'blackmail relief' or 'terrorism relief'? (your word)

The U.S under Trump backed out of that deal and re-imposed sanctions.

Therefore the deal was then NULL and VOID.
With sanctions re-imposed there was no reason for them o stay to agreed limits

But Europe (The other signatories) tried to hold Iran's feet to the fire and make them stick to the terms of the deal which we're now forfeited due to the re-imposing of U.S. sanctions.

And do you all want to know the ugly truth?

Khomeini, they bloke you all just supported assassinating for Israel
He was the one guy that had for years vehemently stood against getting a nuclear weapon.
And now he's gone and his son, much more hardline has now come to power and you all just supported murdering his entire family.

What's worse is that you all think Iranian Shi'ites are the ones responsible for terrorist attacks, but they're not, they helped the west fight ISIS.
Shi'ites are not the ones who dictate how all the other Muslims should act.
Those Muslims are Sunni.

And the even uglier truth?

Iran wasn't enriching it's nuclear material for a weapons program.
It was a trap, the West engineered all of it, and Iran foolishly enriched simply because the West backed out of the deal and reimposed sanctions and so Iran needed a barganing chip to negotiate away the sanctions with.

The whole entire thing has been smokes and mirrors since before 9/11 to confuse everyone's sense of reason.

Hi AC,

Iran had enough highly enriched U for ten nuclear weapons, all with approval from Khamenei. I don't see that as being consistent with an opposition to developing nuclear weapons.

Regime simply refers to an authoritarian government: I think this consistent with having school kids chant "Death to America", "Death to Israel" etc, along with people hanged from cranes in streets in many cities. I'd imagine that in such an environment, you or I would look much like Albo did at the mosque the other day.

Peace is bipartisan and unconditional. What we have had with Iran for the past 47 years is appeasement. I have no idea whether the US and Israel will succeed or not, but I do believe a peaceful Iran a great benefit for the world.

Also, you keep mentioning the murdered school kids, but was the action of the US and Israel a deliberate murder of children or a horrible mistake? The Australian gave accounts of some of the tens of thousands of murders by the Iranian regime recently. Those murders were deliberate, which is why Mossad is having trouble getting the murderers to lose their weapons and join the people. And here's you thinking that the Jews want to kill people: They don't.

HI Fester,

"Iran had enough highly enriched U for ten nuclear weapons, all with approval from Khamenei. I don't see that as being consistent with an opposition to developing nuclear weapons."

Yes apparently so.
I think 60% was the non-weapons grade accepted limit before Netanyahu started spakking it though. You could argue that it's too close a time-frame to full weapons grade and I'd probably agree.

I'm not entirely opposed to Iran having nukes, I'm just not sure I support a religious theocracy having them either.

But I have no more or less reservations than I do about Israel having them, especially when Israel is a nation under constant conflict because of territorial ambitions.
I could see a valid argument that says Iran having a nuke would hold the Israeli's in check and has as much a chance of ensuring peace across the region than the current situation that has instead emboldened the Israelis to engage in hostile actions against neighbours without reproach..
- It'd be similar to the kind of discussion that argued it's good the Russians have nukes simply to prevent the Americans from doing whatever they wanted.

I'm not entire sure what you mean by Albo at the mosque.
If I was a Muslim, I'd be offended at him showing his face in my mosque, after he just cheered on the killing of the Ayatollah.

That'd be like expecting pats on the back down at the local parish after you just publicly cheered on assassinating the pope and we're discussing sending troops to march on the Vatican.

"What we have had with Iran for the past 47 years is appeasement."
- I'm not sure they feel that way.

"I do believe a peaceful Iran a great benefit for the world."
Me too, but the realist in me thinks it's a fantasy right now.
What are they going to do after killing Khomeini?
Kill the next appointed Ayatollah that takes his place, and the next and the next etc. until they get every last one?
Unrealistic.

Ultimately Israel would never actually allow a prosperous Iran I don't think.

That country will be destroyed just like they did in all the others.

The sad fact really I think, is that if we really want Iran to change, we need to change what we're doing.

There's one thing both Iran and Russia want.
They both want to deal with the root causes of these conflicts, but the U.S. doesn't do diplomacy.
It knows only threats, blackmail, regime change and military intervention.

"Also, you keep mentioning the murdered school kids, but was the action of the US and Israel a deliberate murder of children or a horrible mistake?"

- I think it's likely to be a horrible mistake.
Even if you deliberately wanted to attack civilians, it wouldn't be advisable on the day you launched your opening attack.

Here's what I do know.
Targeting packages are not generated by humans, they're generated by AI.
Pete Hegseth took away some of the checks and balances that may have identified the building as a school. (So even if it was a mistake, it's one that could've been prevented if they didn't throw the rule book out and act like Israel does)
Next is what happened.

They fired at least 5 Tomahawk Block IV missiles at that group of buildings. The block IV have the ability to circle and loiter over a target and send back live video, so what they did was use 4 of those missiles to hit those IRGC buildings and the school, while the 5th missile circled overhead sending back the live feed Battle Damage Assessment.
Then, they saw movement at the school after the first missile hit.
It was kids, teachers, parents and other rescuers running around.
Those missiles also allow remaining fuel to be dispersed and act as a fuel-air explosive (thermobaric/vacuum weapon) upon impact.
The ignited cloud of fuel generates a powerful blast wave, which can be more potent than the main warhead itself in the case of a close-range target.
And so they saw people running around, may have considered it an active IRGC base and they hit it again.

That's what happened.

The proliferation of nuclear weapons, has not prevented war, it may have prevented the use of such weapons. When one power (USA) alone had a nuclear bomb it quickly used it, knowing there was no possibility of retaliation in kind against America. The USSR developed nuclear weapons in response, as a deterrent to any American preemptive strike against it, which the Soviets believed was inevitable if they didn't have a deterrent.

"The USSR developed nuclear weapons in response, as a deterrent to any American preemptive strike against it, which the Soviets believed was inevitable if they didn't have a deterrent."

The Soviets had their first test of an A-Bomb in August 1949, more than 4 years AFTER the US had dropped their first bomb. If the US was going to use their technological advantage pre-emptively they had plenty of time do do so.

But they didn't do that because they never had any intention of doing so. They used two bombs to bring a war to a close, saving millions of lives in the process. But they had no reason to use the bomb on the Soviets and therefore didn't. It was just Stalinist paranoia that caused the Soviets to think the bomb would be used against them, since, if they had that advantage they would most definitely have used it and couldn't imagine the US wouldn't do likewise.

(An interesting aside....the first Soviet bombs were almost identical to the first US bombs because most of it was designed from plans and information stolen from the US by Russian spies).

It should be noted that Israel has had a bomb since 1967 and never used it, even in the dark days of the 6 Day War and the Yom Kippur War. They hold the bombs as a final desperate option if the state is about to be overrun. The mad Mullahs on the other hand were open in saying they saw the bomb, if they could get it, as a means to destroy Israel ie as a first resort, not a last resort. Hence the current war.

Of course, the mullahs knew that if they used the bomb Israel would retaliate. But for them, death in war is a promotion and guarantees them a place in Paradise with their 72 virgins. (BTW, since the current Supreme Leader is gay, does that mean he gets 72 male slaves when he goes to meet Allah?.)

Trumpster,

"If the US was going to use their technological advantage pre-emptively they had plenty of time do do so. But they didn't do that because they never had any intention of doing so."

Have you been channelling that hay seed American president Harry Truman, YOU wouldn't have a clue. When the Americans alone had nuclear weapons, they quickly used them to their advantage. The "millions of lives saved" is nonsense, the reality is 250,000 innocent people were murdered.
A small fact that escapes you, is the second bomb on Nagasaki, 80,000 murdered, was simply to determine what atomic bomb type was most effective in murdering innocent people.

BTW, How is your claimed great peacemaker (what a joke) Trump doing as he and his cronies are profiteering from the stock market with their insider trading, they made $400 million in a couple of hours. And their gambling on America's war of aggression on Iran? Making Trump and his cronies even richer. Do you support this? Me thinks so!

When Trump blabs on about wars and cowards, note this;

Donald Trump did not serve in the military. He received four student deferments while in college and a 1968 medical deferment (4-F) for "bone spurs" (made up rubbish) in his heels during the Vietnam War, allowing him to avoid military service. TRUMP WAS HIMSELF WAS A WARMONGERING SNIVELLING COWARD.

"YOU wouldn't have a clue. "

Well you see Paul. I read history. (You should try it some time). I know they wouldn't have used the bomb on Russia or anyone other than Japan, even when there was no deterrent because they DIDN'T. The fact that they didn't seems rather conclusive although in your fantasy world, mere facts are just a hindrance to what you want to be true.

On the A-Bomb:

1. Dropping the bomb meant that the projected 500,000 US lives lost due to invasion weren't lost; the projected 2million Japanese deaths due to invasion weren't lost; the 10000 deaths per day in Japan's Asian camps were saved; the 5,000 deaths per day in China and elsewhere due to famine weren't lost. The bomb bought the suffering to a rapid end.

2. The second bomb was dropped because the Japanese weren't planning on surrendering after the first. The US had broken the Japanese codes and were privy to the internal Japanese government discussions. They knew that the Japanese scientists were saying that it was unlikely that the US would have a second bomb for several months and they knew that the Japanese army was planning on fighting on. the second bomb changed all that.

You learn all that when you read history.

"BTW, How is your claimed great peacemaker (what a joke) Trump doing as he and his cronies are profiteering from the stock market with their insider trading, they made $400 million in a couple of hours."

I saw that, I was thinking Jared Kushner.
But it may have been the Trump family.
Gotta profit off the wars you start, right?
Who knows.

Apparently the whole Trump administration are all about profit.

Trumpster,

Reading American propaganda, is not history. How are PROJECTIONS history? What a load of rubbish. You can't murder 250,000 innocent people, and then claim you saved lives. RUBBISH! No lives were saved, 250,000 were taken!
As we know, Americans killed in wars are overwhelmingly considered trailer-trash types in their own country, blacks Hispanics and poor whites, totally worthless to people like Trump! He said so.

Regime change might appear drastic, but sometimes it is necessary.
The control exercised by Iranian leaders has a negative effect on the people there, and also on the world.
So, unless there is regime change in Iran, it can only get worse.
Without regime change, I see no point to the current 'war'.
However much you grind them down, the regime will regroup and rebuild if any of them are still able to.
Remnants must be replaced with a more democratic system.
This change is necessary.
But Trump seems to be failing?

I think all religions are aimed at having control and obtaining money.
This is not all bad.
Long ago, control of the restless rabble was a good thing.
Peace amongst the troups is definitely desirable.
However, religion is based on an artificial set of standards.
These were dreamt up long ago, when there was only a need to impress illiterate persons.
And it is convenient for these standards to be considered ageless.
It gives constancy to them.
But the truth is that the standards are as faulty now as they were when they began.
No thinking person will take them seriously.

The first rule for living in a democracy is not to harm another member of the group.
Only those authorised to deal with problems should do so.
You can defend yourself and others if harm is significant and immediate, but that is all.
Otherwise, no taking the law in to your own hands.
When you have legitimate concerns, these must be relayed to a proper authority.
And the only reason for war is the need for the immediate defence of a group.
The unwarranted and vicious harming of non-combatants is beyond contempt.

You can't murder 250,000 innocent people, and then claim you saved lives."

You can if you understand the history. But we are talking to Paul so alas....

"they made $400 million in a couple of hours."

Evidence? Sorry to use a term you don't understand. Here, I'll help... http://tiny.cc/nbx0101

"Regime change might appear drastic,"

Not when you're talking about a regime that was prepared to kill up to 50,000 of its own people over a weekend in order to retain its privileges. For most of us it seems that removing such a regime would be highly beneficial to the Iranians, the region in general and the furtherance of human development. Of course, there are those who support the authoritarian regimes and for them, overthrowing that regime would be considered to be a tragedy.

Whether the regime will be overthrown is very much in the hands of the Iranian people themselves. The US/Israel have set , or are setting, the conditions to allow the overthrow but its up to the people to take their future into their own hands. At the moment the US is advising the people to remain indoors while the USAF/IAF complete their annihilation of the IRGC's infrastructure. But once that's done, they will tell the people to rise up if they have the will and then we'll see what happens

They're already saying additional wars against Iran will be required.

Expectations lower in face of Iran resistance
http://thejewishindependent.com.au/us-israeli-war-iran-analysis
'Despite massive damage to Iran’s military capabilities, doubts emerge over whether Netanyahu and Trump will be able to claim victory in the face of the regime’s survival.'

>>On the first day of the US-Israeli war against Iran, with the assassination of Iranian supreme leader Ali Khamenei, the collapse of the Iranian regime seemed to Israel to be an attainable goal.

With some encouragement and a lot of firepower, the crowds would turn out and topple their oppressors, it was hoped.

A week and a half later, no protests against the regime have surfaced despite parts of Iran being pulverised. What has actually collapsed, instead, is the idea that the regime will collapse during this war. At the same time, doubts are emerging over whether Israel will be able to claim victory in the face of the regime’s survival....<<

>>Meanwhile, the notion that the war will permanently disable Iran’s military and missile capabilities is also in question, especially given the fact that Donald Trump can halt the war at any time he sees fit. Indeed, some analysts are now openly saying that additional wars with Iran will be necessary to suppress a threat of Iran rebuilding its capabilities.<<

You read this stuff and you get a feel for how they see things.

This Grace Tame one was interesting too.

Why Grace Tame should be allowed to speak at Melbourne Writers Festival
http://thejewishindependent.com.au/grace-tame-melbourne-writers-festival

If you stand back and see the bigger picture, it's that these are a people at constant war with the whole entire world around them and determined to march directly into constant conflict.
They are a nation at war with other peoples valid opinions.

It's not that they don't want to cancel her, but in this instance they think the repercussions would be worse.

Please allow me to add a few further thoughts.

Do you think there are only good and bad people?
Do the 'good ones' walk with peaceful demeanour?
Dispensing good humour as they go?
Whilst the 'bad ones' walk with cunning expression?
Twirling a luxurious mustachio suggestively?
Ready to tie poor Nell to the railroad track?
I don't think that is anywhere near the truth.

I think it is reasonably well established that everything about a person's genetic makeup is there right from the start.
Basic character and personality are embedded in a person's DNA?
The person can learn skills to add to these things.
So he learns to control the way he behaves to some degree.
But we have no practical means of making significant changes to our basic genetic makeup.
So a person will remain who he is and what he is.

Every living thing on earth is programmed to behave in a particular way.
We are all born with a mental outlook which is different.
However different that is, that way is 'normal' for us.
Many are born without conscience, which is normal for most of the animal kingdom.
Those without conscience can act in a way we consider to be harmful.
And will do this without pause or regret.

So, some of those 'strange' persons you see causing unrest overseas are being 'normal' by their natural standards.
They believe just as fervently in the justness of their cause and their actions as you do of yours.
They do not see themselves as behaving badly, and neither should we.
And note there is not a twirled moustache in sight.
Though there might be a beard or two.

Read the last paragraph again, and consider it carefully.