Trumpster,

As an anti-vaxxer sovereign citizen, your whole argument, without world wide statistics, seems a load of crap! Whey didn't you follow the Dangerous Doctor Donald's advice at the time, and drink Pine-O-Clean? I know you didn't because you are still here, how disloyal of you. It is estimated that more than 100 people in the US died from taking the advice of DDD and swigging on diso, you not being one.

Japan vaccination rates were over 80% for the first dose.
Japan excess death rates were 7.55% (2022), 5.7% (2023 and 2024)

Canada vaccination rates were over 83% for the first dose.
Canada excess death rates were 13.5% (2022), 5% (2023).

I couldn't be bothered checking the rest of your claims...Bulgaria and Portugal!!

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"your whole argument.....seems a load of crap!"

Well not my argument. I was merely passing on the scientific findings. Paul's a big believer in following the science, so long as it tells him what he wants to hear.

" It is estimated that more than 100 people in the US died from taking the advice of DDD and swigging on diso"

There are two types of statistics... those you look up and those you make up. Looking up facts is difficult for Paul since he's not sure what a fact its, so all of his statistics are made up.

mhaze,

You’re just listing vaccination rates next to excess mortality and implying that proves something.

Japan and Canada both had big Omicron waves in 2022-23. Excess deaths during infection waves don’t automatically become vaccine deaths.

The question isn’t "did a vaccinated country have excess mortality?" Most countries did. The question is whether highly vaccinated countries consistently had more excess mortality than lower-vaccinated ones.

That pattern isn’t clear at all.

Bulgaria had low vaccination and very high excess mortality. Portugal had very high vaccination and lower excess mortality than a number of lower-vaccinated Eastern European states.

If vaccines were the primary driver, you’d expect that relationship to show up more cleanly across countries.

So where’s the broader cross-country analysis showing that higher vaccination independently predicts higher excess deaths once infection waves are accounted for?

Just lining numbers up side-by-side doesn’t establish that.

Trumpster/Anti Vaxxer/Sovereign Citizen

Your title is growing. That is a reasonable question from John;
What is the relationship between vaccination rates and mortality rates?

The stats for Australia show the mortality rate for those vaccinated (3 does) was substantially lower than for the un-vaccinated, particularly amongst people over 60

"Just lining numbers up side-by-side doesn’t establish that."

Nor does declaring the figures from random nations are significant and then retreating with alacrity when the actual figures are revealed.

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Paul,
you should consider applying for the Paralympics given the speed you showed in running away from your 'detergent' fabrications.

There's no retreat here, mhaze.

Japan and Canada having excess mortality doesn't demonstrate vaccine causation. Most countries had excess mortality during major infection waves.

The test isn't "did a vaccinated country have excess deaths?" The test is whether higher vaccination predicts higher excess mortality once infection waves and demographics are accounted for.

If vaccines were a primary driver, we should see a consistent positive relationship across countries. Not isolated examples, and not numbers presented without context.

So the question still stands: where is the cross-country analysis showing vaccination rate independently predicts excess mortality?

That's not retreating. It's asking for the evidence required to support the scale of the claim.