mhaze,

I never said Thucydides had an “agenda” in the sense you’re now imputing.

What I said was that he documents Athenian logic in the Melian Dialogue and that the narrative context in which that logic appears matters.

That’s a claim about interpretation, not authorial motive. Saying a work functions as a warning is not the same thing as saying the author was pushing a program.

You’ve now reframed “description versus endorsement” into “agenda versus neutrality”, which is not what I argued and not what those words mean.

There’s also no reversal here. I haven’t moved from X to Y to Z. I’ve consistently made the same distinction: recording how actors justify power =/= endorsing that justification as exhaustive or wise.

You’ve already acknowledged that Thucydides does not endorse that logic. Once that’s conceded, the charge that I’m inventing an agenda simply doesn’t land.

If you want to point to a specific sentence where I claimed Thucydides was manipulating events to push a cause, quote it. Otherwise, accusing me of “games” is just a way of avoiding the actual point.

//Not playing.//

I'll bet.

Your credentials have done nothing to help you here, and now you've been caught out rewriting what has been said in a last ditch attempt to salvage some credibility.

Oh my days...

mhaze..

"Re the Russian language thing....Are you forgetful or just dishonest.

Lavrov said one of the justification for the Russian invasion of Ukraine was that the Ukrainians were trying to stop the use of the Russian language in Ukraine. As usual you fell for that."

No mate, you are the one who just cant accept or acknowledge you were wrong.

Which part of this do you not get?

"In 2014, Russian language "demands" weren't formal requests but rather grievances from pro-Russian groups and Russia itself, focusing on preserving Russian as a widely used language, especially after Ukraine's parliament tried to repeal the 2012 regional language law, which granted Russian 'regional language' status in some areas; these concerns were used by Russia as a pretext for intervention, claiming protection for Russian speakers against perceived anti-Russian 'nationalist' actions by the new Kyiv government, including banning Russian TV"

YYtsenyuk (You know the one Victoria Nuland bragged about choosing to Geoffrey Pyatt, you know 'Feck the EU'...)
He relented in repealing that law at the time, but they ended up doing so a few years later anyway.

You were wrong.
And you've been carry on like a 5yo kid throwing a tantrum at the shops because it can't get what it wants and trying to get one back and keeping score like a competition ever since...

Fecken years now mate...
GTF over it, move on with your life.
I don't care.

All you did was call Lavrov a liar, I damn well remember that.
So don't try to squirm out of it, saying you admitted anything.

A handful of those other ones I was wrong I admit it, but you have to put some of them into the right context.

Fester- Yes, I think Pres Trump did the right thing too in Venezuela.

Ttbn- Yes I couldn't remember which house Pauline was in. It's not unheard of for people to move, but it's risky. And there's our other Hanson. But my point was that the Liberals won't be in a position to ask for help, but only in a position to give help, if their numbers drop too low, because they aren't able to resolve the conflict in their policy between what's in the Overton Window (created by the Left), what the business community wants, and what the people want and need. It would be ironic if the Liberal Party and One Nations positions were reversed given that Pauline was kicked out of the Liberal Party.
Yes Barnaby Joyce could work perhaps. One Nation and Nationals might work well, at least some would.

When Trump annexes Venezuela, will he declare like another grub of history who said in 1938; "The Sudetenland is my last territorial demand in Europe." Trump can say; "Venezuela is my last territorial demand in America."

Yes Barnyard Joy could work perhaps. The Lovely Pauline and the Cow Cokey's might work well, at least some would. What a laugh, that mob of jackasses together. Add in Barnyard and he makes the icing on the cake!

Yes I get it now JD. When you said what you said, you didn't really say what you said and its completely inappropriate for me to point out that when you said what you said, you said what you said.

Just a note of advice. If you're not prepared to support you assertions AFTER the facts have been laid out before you, perhaps you ought not to make these assertions before getting all the facts lined up. You have this habit of making an assertion based on what you want to be true and then spending a week trying to defend it eg making claims about what Thukydides didn't and didn't mean while having zero understanding of Thukydides himself or his work.

AC,

do you not get it or do you not want to get it?

2014 - Ukraine passed a law essentially banning the Russian language in the country.

2019 - Ukraine reversed the law and not only allowed the use of Russian but laid out the protections for it.

2022 - Russia invading claiming that they were trying to defend the use of Russian within Ukraine.

You feel for it - as usual. I proved the Russian lied by showed you the translated (and original) 2019 legislation.

Its little wonder you fall for so much when you refuse to even learn from the errors you make.