Australia was a British colony.

It no longer is.

Successive waves of migration have
shaped and influenced the development of a rich
multicultural society.

Why do some people fear multiculturalism?

Migration is fundamental to the Australian story.
It supports our economic success and drives the
increasing diversity of our society.

Successive waves of migration have shaped who we
are today and influenced the development of a
rich multicultural society.

Why the fear coming from some?

Oh what a great question Foxy.

You are completely right. It is pure, unadulterated fear. But what are they afraid of? The first answer is a fear of change. These zealots are completely scared out of their minds of change, refusing to accept that the only thing certain in life is change.

They are scared of loosing their perceived status. They are scared of others getting ‘more’ than them.

And of course there is their perceived superiority, be it culturally, intellectually, and moral.

It’s a hard battle. One in which logic seems to have no effect. Fear rules the roost.

There is a vast difference between a nation being multicultural and a nation having multiculturalism as its central policy core.

The former is a statement of fact. We have a lot of people from my different cultures and they retain some of that past culture in their daily lives as well as imbue the native culture with those alternate practices.

The latter - multiculturalism - is a government policy that seeks to promote and, when promotion doesn't succeed, enforce the view that all culture are equal and equally valuable and ought to be equally celebrated.

There has never been a successful long-term society that practices multiculturalism. There have been successful societies that have taken in others and absorbed them into the prevailing culture. But none who just try to have a nation of many cultures doing their own thing.

There is of course a fundamental misunderstanding that the immigration cheer-squad make as regards culture. They aren't the same and they most definitely aren't equal. There is a vast difference for a society like Australia to accept immigrants from Bristol or County Cork or even Greece than someone from Islamabad or Somalia. Some immigrants already share much of the heritage with the dominant culture and others are ambivalent toward and sometimes antagonistic toward the dominant culture.

We in Australia are fortunate in that we have managed to keep the numbers of that latter group low thanks to things like 'Stop the Boats' (thank you Mr Abbott). But you only need to look at the Rape Grooming Gangs in the UK that are current tearing that place asunder, or the massive increase in antisemitic crime in Canada, or the rise of anti-immigrant political groups in Germany, France, Austria and Italy to see what happens when the multicultural floodgates are torn down.

People aren't afraid of other cultures. They are rightly afraid of the type of society you engender when you seek to forcibly coerce the dominant culture into ceding power to an alien culture.

A million teenage British women fell victim to multicultural fetishism. Who would want that for their society?

Hi Aries54,

I 'm trying to make sense of the fears that do exist
and the reasons behind them. Some are certainly tied to
the past and wish for its return. Others see multiculturalism
as division. Wanting assimilation not integration. They see
integration as a threat to social cohesion.

Still others see enclaves that could endanger our country's
security by certain groups having loyalties to their own
homelands and not Australia.

Also values may vary depending on cultural perspectives and
could present challenges and problems. Not all are willing
to abide by the rule of our laws. Female Genital Mutilation
springs to mind, as does child brides. Then there's past
hatreds between groups. And the lists go on.

Still over all our governments through education and specific
programs and strict set criteria on who it accepts - has
set standards that it has adhered to and over all - our
country fingers-crossed, does not seem to have the problems
that exist in Europe and elsewhere.

We've not had a "take one and all" type of attitude.

These are exciting times we live in. We should learn from
our past. As I've posted so many times - from people
like Weary Dunlop, and Caroline Chisholm and Vincent
Lingiari and all their historical kin so that we can
become the Australia we aspire to live in.

An Australia that is uniquely Australian.

I suppose that Foxy and Aries welcome the Rape Grooming Gangs to Australia and the instability that this and other aspects bring. The Rape Grooming Gangs are just an extreme case of the impacts that policy of multiculturalism causes. Ironically it is a statement of cultural dominance of one culture over another- in this case a dominance of Muslim culture over Anglo culture.

If people that have views of multiculturalism receive the wages of that view, we shouldn't invest resources in solving the problem that they created.

Those that support multiculturalism are responsible for the rental crisis, of course they deny it. They don't understand cause and effect. Responsibility leads to stability. Irresponsibility leads to chaos.

You could equally argue that Epstein and Weinstein represent the dominance of Anglo people by Hebrew's, perhaps not all Hebrew's, but some would argue that the culture is complicit in a culture of rape.

It's interesting that Muslim's and Hebrew's are presented as enemies but seem to have similar dominance characteristics over their treatment of Anglo's.

Where you put two cultures together there will always be a competition for dominance. That is why every culture needs their own nation. Marxism seeks to destroy all cultures by social engineering of a multiplying cultural landscape of mixed races. Even Marx talked about the nature of race in the global context.

The Southport attack and killings seems to be a result of multicultural policies- I hope the "multiculturalist influencers" are very happy with themselves.

I see Canem is projecting again … I suppose that Foxy and Aries would welcome ( … insert catastrophic results of your choice here … )

His thinly veiled fear wrapped up and disguised by his pseudo-social science analysis (excuses) carries no weight when examined in the light of reason and tolerance. But as many leaders (both past and present) have understood, never let facts get in the way of your prejudices and fears.

He has surrendered to that truth - Prejudice is an emotional commitment to ignorance. Nathan Rutestein

Hi Foxy,

Thank you for the topic. It is a very complex one, being both present and dangerous. I believe that by fully understanding all the issues we can go a long way to solving the problem to everyone's benefit. But it has to be met with trust, tolerance, compassion and good will from all concerned. It is obvious that that is missing to various degrees from all sides. Being the optimist, I'm not prepared to give up just yet.

Aries54 seems to be advocating tolerance as the solution to cultural dominance- apologizing to the rape murderer for their conviction- an accessory after the fact- hiding them from the authorities in the basement- "The Aries54 Safehouse Of Pedophile Killers". Aries54 seems to be complicit in child rape and murder as long as it's Anglo people. Typical Anglophobia.

Remember NAMBLA, from memory a member of Socialist Alliance, for 18 years. At least NAMBLA just raped children's bodies not their minds. Remember "thank you Stalin for my wonderful childhood".

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

Disgusting

It's interesting.

Australians aren't seen as British by Britons. I remember
my neighbour travelling to see her relatives in Britain
and was quite upset when she was treated as a "foreigner".
Not as one of their own.

Also, when Australians arrive at Heathrow they are greeted
as foreign nationals.

Most Australians don't see themselves a being British either.
We may share a common heritage - but few Australians see themselves
as anything other than Australian.

Australia today is a democratic country where you usually get
ahead by merit not birthright. Being Australian means
acknowledging one of our great social creeds - mateship.
Lending a helping hand and looking out for others. Basically,
it means relating to all people not according to any birthright class
distinctions or caste. These are characteristics of the old
world.

But more than that. It means supporting your own.

The Australian relationship with Great Britain for some
older Australians especially will always remain strong
regardless of how Australia may in the future re-arrange its
constitutional arrangements. The late Queen Elizabeth II,
made it quite clear that the question of a republic and its
debate was a matter for Australians to decide.

And when the time comes, they will.

Hi Aries54,

The subject we're trying to discuss is multiculturalism
in our country not the problems in Great Britain. Thank
you for trying to maintain some human decency.

However, with some on this forum - I always try to
remember that I can only be responsible for what I
posted not how others understand or interpret what I
posted.

I subsequently end up ignoring the comments.
My silence means that I'm tired of explaining my feelings
and I don't have the energy to continue to explain them
any more. I usually try to move on gracefully and with
some dignity. It's not always easy. Especially when you
begin to suspect that you're not dealing with rational
people.

Take it easy

Nothing but sickening, disgusting racism from the usual suspects.
They are terrified of non white people. Thats what they fear.

Calling them rape gangs. You make me sick. I know for a fact that local white scumbag rape gangs are far more numerous than any immigrant ones. But you never hear a peep about them do you?

Stick your "dominant culture" right where it fits. Is that the culture of down the pub for a few then home to bash the wife and kids? The staid, boring, white man in charge world of the 60s? I dont belong to that culture and neither do most Australians.

Apropos the topic...I found this hilarious.
http://tiny.cc/qnl4001

"Australians aren't seen as British by Britons. "

Why do you find that interesting? I've been visiting England on business since the 1980s and never been thought of as British nor thought of myself as British. I think you're way, way, way out of date.

The only comment on ethnicity I ever got was that I couldn't be Australian because I didn't sound like the people from Ramsey St.

While we aren't British, we are part of the greater Anglosphere - Britain, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. People with a common language, common heritage, common religion, common legal systems, common adherence to free speech and rule of law, and democracy. In short a family of nations who inherited the benefits of British development from Magna Carta to the Industrial revolution.

And that's what we need to preserve, even as the British themselves seem intent on frittering it away.

Indeed Haze.
As usual in this subject the point is missed.
The one group, the moslems are brought up from childhood that the Koran
is the superior source of wisdom and LAW !
Sharia law is superior to the law of the land.
They accept that the law must be complied with, but only reluctantly.
The problem is that the Koran is fixed truth and can never be altered
and interpretation is rigidly controlled.
There was never a new testament in the Koran. There was never a
reformation in Islam.
So we have a book, sold and published in this country that has content
which if published in any other name would bring down the law on it
and the publisher.
It advocates the killing of Christians and other non-believers.
It is those verses that are used by the Islamic attackers and killers
to validate their crimes.
In Europe some 20,000 islamic attacks are made in a year.
Two churches a day in France alone are attacked or vandalised.
In Africa hundreds of tribal villages & churches and Christians killed.
And we bring in thousands of moslems unchecked from Gaza !
There must have been dozens of ex Hamas. Did anyone check to see if
any of them had what look like battle wounds, gunshots etc ? Oh NO !
That would be Islamaphobia !
I know, I know Foxy, I am on my soap box again, so I aplolgise for
bringing reality onto your screen.
BTW Belly seems to be quite well although I have not managed to speak to him.

Talking about the "Anglosphere?"

Here's an old article that's still relevant today:

"The Anglosphere Illusion."

http://aspistrategist.org.au/the-anglosphere-illusion/

"nostalgia isn't what it used to be".

.

Dear Foxy,

.

My etymology dictionary tells me that xenophobia comes from the Greek words xenos (which can be translated as either "stranger" or “guest") and phobos (which means either "fear" or “flight”). There are a large number of words in English which are based on phobos. Xenos has given us far fewer words; words from this root include xenocentric (“oriented toward or preferring a culture other than one's own”) and xenial (“of, relating to, or constituting hospitality or relations between host and guest and especially among the ancient Greeks between persons of different cities”).

I understand that xenophobia is a natural phenomenon that we humans share with many, if not all, life species, including our closest brethren, the chimpanzees and bonobos with whom we share a common ancestor. Nature has endowed us humans, chimpanzees and bonobos, and probably all other animals, with a hormone called oxytocin, often referred to as the “love hormone” because it promotes social cohesion and social bonding but also promotes out-group hostility and in-group preference”.

In a recent publication of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, an international team of researchers from the University of Cambridge, Harvard University, the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and the French National Centre for Scientific Research reviewed decades of findings and research carried out on several wild chimpanzee and bonobo populations to investigate premises of parochial altruism in our closest living relatives.

The authors propose a new model of non-kin cooperation - applicable at a smaller scale than in humans - called the parochial cooperation model, in which, given the consequences of warfare on reproductive success, group-level cooperation is needed, displayed, and reinforced during out-group conflicts. Out-group conflicts promote out-group hostility and out-group hostility reinforces in-group favouritism.

This scheme functions in a reinforcement feedback loop in which repeated interactions among individuals of the same community and established social ties forge the cement by which collective actions and group-level cooperation can take place.

It seems some of us have a little more oxytocin than others !

Here is the link to the research report :

http://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2021.0149

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Strategic_Policy_Institute

"In February 2012, the Minister for Defence Stephen Smith (ALP) announced the appointment of Peter Jennings as ASPI's new executive director, effective in May 2012."

It seems that the ASPI is a mouthpiece of Defense and Defense Industry Partners and needs to be taken in that context. I wouldn't expect the Defense establishment to have an in depth understanding of political and cultural philosophy. But the ASPI is probably better and less politically influenced than some Australian institutions.

The ASPI seems to have a low opinion of the management of Chinese spies in Australian Universities

I just picked up on the fact that Foxy's article was written by Gareth Evans- yes the one from the ALP, seemingly ostensibly of the unity faction, and now Chancellor of the ANU, I shudder to think.

Of course the ALP will discredit the idea of an Anglosphere. Some of Evans comments such as the impact of UK's membership of the EU are relevant (perhaps overstated).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Evans_(politician)

I see the ALP as Marxist (and probably Maoist), as did B.A. Santa Maria. The ASPI needs to be seen as bipartisan, even if the Overton Window pulls political discourse wildly to the Socialist side.

Here we are into a New Year and it is about time that
we should recognise that today's Australia is a diverse
and multicultural nation with a rich cultural
heritage that goes beyond its British origins.

So many Australians were born overseas. Have a parent who
was born overseas and who speak a language other than
English at home. Many feel a sense of pride in the
country's achievement and its unique identity totally separate
from the United Kingdom.

We need to acknowledge the feelings of Australians towards the
UK's role in this country's history because it varies widely
and it is important to recognise that Australia's history is
a complex tapestry of different experiences and perspectives.

Of course to some Australians, the relationship with the UK
will always remain strong. But that doesn't mean that we
should criticise other Australians for not feeling the same
way. We should be able to acknowledge both positions.

We should not judge a nation at the worst of its history but
by how it overcomes that history and by its vision for
the future. That's why education and discussion is key.

No culture or way of life even one as strong and good as
Australia's is set in stone.

Countries are constantly adapting to a changing world and
changing demographics. Adaptation can be positive or
destructive as we've seen recently in America. We can't
take it for granted. We must stand up for it.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record. There will
always be problems and challenges but as stated earlier they
can only be solved by people being aware and thinking
about them.

Dear Banjo,

Thank you for broadening this discussion.

There are numerous false narratives that are being advanced
by mainstream media, by politicians and political parties
that influence people. As we've seen recently in the US -
trying to get rid of fact-checks won't help things.

With a coming election looming this year in this country
we can expect things will only get worse. There will be
even more attempts at political scoring.

When people and parties purposefully foster divisian
within Australian society. When they promote misleading
media content, make false accusations,, stir up moral
outrage wherever they can regardless of whether they are
dealing with genuine issues and with no regard who
it damages along the way. Be it regarding national
identity, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation,
place of birth, wealth or lack of it.

When people are prepared to sink so low. When people are
prepared to weaponise an issue to appeal to the worst in
human nature things seriously need to change

American lawyer David E. Springer said:

"At all times, vigilance if the price of liberty.
We must remain vigilant because while it might be
us today, it will be some other group down the road
20 years from now. The measure of our society over
history is our fidelity to our principles. We must
remind our government and our people to remain faithful
to those principles or otherwise our society, like so
many in the past, will be swept on the dust heap of history".

As Australians, we can become the Australians we aspire to
be and create the Australia we aspire to live in.

The proponents of the mythical multiculturalism are usuallys those living comfortably at society's expense quite disconnected from that world !
Take Foxy for example. My guess is she is on generous Public Service (beefed-up) Superannuation in a nice quiet suburb & her only experiences with normal society are from the Media.

Indyvidual,

I'm retired.

I'm a wife, mother, and grandmother.

My career has spanned over several continents.

What about yours?

My career has spanned over several continents.
Foxy,
Sounds impressive when you write it like that but judging by the content of most of your posts it hasn't done much to open your eyes. I'd have thought someone with so much exposure & opportunity to learn from all around the place you'd have a far less rose-coloured outlook.
Most people aren't "against" multiculturalism, they are rightly & justifiably concerned about the faux multiculturalism the ignorant West is pedalling.
Why is multiculturalism always a white thing ? As far as I'm aware White society has done way more to give multiculturalism a go yet this is mostly taken for granted or deemed insufficient.
What non-white countries can boast as many White & other immigrants successfully integrated into their society ? Any outstanding success stories as they are expected from Australian society ?

"I just picked up on the fact that Foxy's article was written by Gareth Evans"

Yeah but I can why Foxy likes the article. After all it tells her what she wants to hear and that's always Foxy main criteria. It also sets up a strawman argument - another Foxy favourite.

Evans describes the Anglosphere in a way that suits his purposes but isn't anything like what the proponents of it describe. Evans imagines it to be some united force and then proceeds to explain why it can't be that. But that's not what the proponents of it suggest.

The first to describe the anglosphere was Robert Conquest in his book "Reflections on a Ravaged Century" ( This is a book Foxy once claimed to had read and then proceeded to show she hadn't the slightest understanding of it).

Conquest, and others, see the Anglosphere to be an informal movement that operated as an example to the world as to how good governance and prosperity could be achieved. They never saw it as a formal alliance.

As always with these discussions, those who oppose open slather immigration finally get called racist or the more intellectually pious 'xenophobic' (Please explain!).

As I've explained before, I reject the accusation but happily accept a description as a culturalist. That is I don't agree with the notion that we reject people based on their race but fully support the notion that we select our immigrants based on their culture.

As I said earlier, there is a vast difference between an immigrant from Bristol and one from Islamabad. The difference isn't race but their culture. We need to import people, if we want to import people, who are conducive to our culture. So Christian Croats - yes; Muslim Croats - No. Same race different culture. I was completely in favour of bringing in Yazidi refugees but utterly opposed to bringing in Syrian refugees.

Numbers also matter. Europe is now living proof of what happens when you let too many (way too many) people in from an alien culture. I get that some want to avert their eyes from what's happening in Rotherham or Berlin or Vienna. But the only difference between us and them is the number of people who have no intention of integrating that were permitted in. We stopped the boats and they didn't.

We are constantly sloganised with the chant that Diversity is Strength. But there isn't the slightest evidence for that. Britain's diversity is tearing it apart. Germany too. Poland, who rejected all alien immigrants now looks on them with disdain as they reap the rewards of their far-sightedness.

Although both major parties have ignored the wishes of the electorate in regards to the numbers of immigrants, they have heeded the warnings of Europe in regards to who comes in. Let's hope that remains the case.

mikk wrote: "I know for a fact that local white scumbag rape gangs are far more numerous than any immigrant ones."

Well we were talking about the gangs in Britain but that was clearly too complex. Still if you have 'facts' (smirk) about white rape gangs in your locale you should pass it on to your local constabulary. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to be presented with all those facts.

I am tired of explaining things. I'm losing the energy
to keep on explaining.

But I'll give it one more try.

Talking about the "Anglosphere?"

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute is the commentary
and analysis site of an independent non-partisan think tank
based in Canberra. I chose an article in The Strategist
because ASPI is regarded as one of the most authoritative
and widely quoted contributors to public discussions and
strategic policy issues in Australia and a recognised and
authoritative Australian voice in international
discussions of strategic issues, especially in the Indo-
Pacific.

The author, Gareth Evans was Australia's Foreign Minister
1988-1996 and then was the Chancellor of the Australian National
University 2010-2020. He's an Honorary Fellow of Magdalen
College in Oxford amongst other things.

I thought that an article from an experienced former Australian
Foreign Minister and politician would be of value (have merit)
on the subject of the "Anglosphere".

Apparently not. Some prefer the anonymous posters on this forum.
The self-proclaimed experts on "Woke Marxism"as well as
American real estate salesmen, fish and chip shop ladies,
and former police men wanting to be PMs.

I guess each to their preferences.

It's only fair to point out that many Australians however are
more concerned with other relationships than with that of the
UK. I guess it may be because it is highly complex to
organise some kind of network within five states in different
parts of the world.

You don't get it Foxy. I suspect you'll never get it.

Talking about the Anglosphere isn't the same as talking about our relationship with the UK. Indeed given the depths to which England is currently descending, the last thing Australia currently needs is to strengthen or rely on its relationship to Albion.

But the Anglosphere is more than England. Its more than any location. Its a concept, a way of thinking, a way of life, a way of organising society. Its about the common law, rule of law, democracy, free market capitalism, freedom of religion. Its about Australia being part of a centuries old societal project that so successful created the modern world and, given the chance, will continue to guide the modern world.

If you ever get around to reading Conquest's 'Reflections' it'll make more sense to you.

mhaze- I suppose that Foxy will read it one day when she isn't so tired and low in energy. At least she admits that she isn't at her best at the moment. I've got the book by Conquest in my reading list now. But it will probably take a while to get to it. I'm still trying to get through Carl Schmidt's book that ttbn mentioned.

I get the impression that Conquest's book covers much more than just multiculturalism. Also I agree with what he says about the EU.

Thanks mhaze for putting us onto the book.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute may have been representative of the Australian Defense Institution in Australia when Howard created it and when it was 100% funded by them. Now the funding is 43% funded by Defense and also includes funding from major defense contractors and IT companies including Microsoft, Google, and others. Nothing is really objective in a sense, but knowing their bias enables us to put their comments in context.

Recently there have been concerns about changes to the ASPI that make it more politicized.

I thought that an article from an experienced former Australian
Foreign Minister and politician would be of value (have merit)
on the subject of the "Anglosphere".
Foxy,
One would expect that but Evans wasn't of such calibre hence the situation now !

enclaves that could endanger our country's
security by certain groups
Foxy,
Not 'could', are !

mhaze,

Thanks for Robert Conquests book suggestion.

I've got several of his books (The Harvest of Sorow, et al).
But not the one you've suggested. I'll try to get a hold of it.
At the moment I'm reading Antony Loewenstein's "The Palestine
Laboratory".

Indyvidual,

Multiculturalism works best when countries have selected
iimmigration policies that ensure migrants are qualified
and able to intergrade into society.

Also co-operative inter-action with people from different
groups can reduce prejudice and hostility. Problems arise
and can make it difficult to maintain national unity
if people see themselves as members of ethnic or racial
groups rather than citizens of a common country.

Countries like German and the UK are having problems because
for decades they had the "come one and all" policies. Allowing
migrants with poor language skills and qualifications who found
themselves on the welfare state.

Australia had a selective migration system that ensured
migrants who were willing and able to fit into our society,
to integrate were allowed in. That is why ours worked better and
Germany, UK,has problems today.

I find Foxy offensive and Anglophobic.

Hi Foxy,

The Kudos Kid said; "I find Foxy offensive and Anglophobic". I hope you are relived and take some comfort by that statement. Given the hate and vilification the Kid likes to engage in, with all his wacky Marxism nonsense spewing out all the time, if he found you agreeable then you would have a problem.

Rape gang story in a form some might find more understandable...

http://tiny.cc/gyw4001

"Police, whose duty it was to look after the most vulnerable, either arrested the girls, dismissed their pleas for help or left them with their tormentors. For that famously kind and decent land had fallen under a strange enchantment, which was called MULTICULTURALISM. It said that, no matter how wicked or cruel the men were to the children, you must never speak of it. The dark spell, and what a powerful spell it was (enough to vanquish justice and compassion), caused any who dared to say that Pakistani Muslim men were targeting white girls to become the bad people. Because ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL, you see, even ones that don’t believe in equality or which agree that girls who aren’t virgins are whores and deserve to be punished."

"And when the monsters swore at the children whom they were raping, saying, “White slag!” “White c—!” – well, that wasn’t at all racist. Because MULTICULTURALISM and the BBC say it cannot be so."

"And the monsters drugged and bribed them, they made them sex slaves, branding the girls’ flesh with their initials, ramming large implements into their tiny bodies the better to accommodate four men."

"Then, one day, the richest man in the whole wide world came along and broke the dark spell. "

"Sir Keir genuinely seems more outraged about Elon Musk...than he is about the 12-year-old who was driven at night to a Yorkshire wood where she was forced to give oral sex to at least 10 men (more cars kept arriving as word spread) before being left alone in the dark."

"Countries like German and the UK are having problems because or decades they had the "come one and all" policies. Allowing migrants with poor language skills and qualifications who found themselves on the welfare state."

Well done Foxy!

Finally caught on, or caught up.

Foxy started off asking "Why are some people against multiculturalism?" and has now answered her own question. Or partially answered it.

The multiculturalism mantra is unravelling all around the world, or at least in those parts of the world which have previously fallen for it. Australia is behind the curve here, but we'll catch up. Part of the reason for that is that we never imported alien cultures in the numbers that other nations did. And that's down to the good sense of our past politicians from Howard's "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances under which they come" to Abbott's "Stop the Boats" victory.

They were vilified as racist at the time but are now clearly beacons for Australia and the world.

Hi Again Foxy,

I didn't answer your original question. "Why are some people against multiculturalism?" Fear, loathing, hate, racisms, lots of reasons. There is the likes of the Trumpster and others here, trying to equate what are vile and disgusting crimes in England to peoples ethnicity. News buddy, all ethnic groups produce criminals, Arab, Asian, African, even Anglos like you.

On the subject, post war immigration to Australia has been an absolute boon for the countries development. It has been the primary reason for the post war rise in living standards enjoyed by all, including the Trumpster and others who try to denigrate migrants. Fortunately the sieg heiling goose steppers in snappy black uniforms are in the minority these days.

p/s I am a strong believer in diversity, and the benefits it has brought to the majority of us. Unfortunately there's nothing in it for the Old Farts, well, nothing they can perceive.

"News buddy, all ethnic groups produce criminals"

Paul, we all know you are fact adverse but literally no one is denying these rape gangs were almost entirely Pakistani men and boys who raped young white girls and the occasional Sikh girl. No one knows how many but numbers of 250,000 girls are in the ball park. And they did it because of their culture. Sorry that the facts don't fit you fantasies, but they rarely do.

" post war immigration to Australia has been an absolute boon for the countries development. "

Its the laziest of logic. Bringing in Italian refugees in 1950 helped us build the Snowy-Hydro therefore bringing in Afghan goat herders in 2018 is good!! Logic takes a holiday.

I guess it should not come as a surprise that there
are some Australians who are still against
multiculturalism.

Australia's history is filled with attempts to
shape policies
and attitudes towards cultural diversity
and immigration - both welcoming and unwelcoming to migrants.

We've had the White Australia Policy formerly the Immigration
Restriction Act that was introduced back in 1901 as a response
to Chinese arrivals through the gold rush of the
19th century. It gave British migrants preference.

Then after WWII the White Australia Policy was gradually
dismantled. Thousands of refugees arrived in Australia.
The government was searching for ways to address the severe
labour shortage. Populate or Perish was the catch phrase.

Of course bias and prejudice did raise its head at times.
Outmoded labels like "Wog", "Dago" and many other terms were
flung about and people were told to "Speak English" on
buses, trams, and trains. Assimilation was expected. As was
"Britishness".

Many refugees changed or Anglosized their names to try to fit in.
Yet,

Cultural diversity slowly became a reality in Australia.
With groups insisting on wanting to preserve their
culture.

The government in turn became focused on policies and
programs to try and help New Australians integrate into
society. Instead of assimilation - integration became key.

Things changed even further under Malcolm Fraser. More than
50,000 Vietnamese refugees were settled in Australia. A
series of institutions were created to cater to the country's
increasing diverse community, including the SBS (Special
Broadcasting Service).

And so it went. Criticisms of course persisted. And it undoubtedly
will continue.

I won't continue to go into this country's history. The main thing
for most of us is to try to not focus on the worst things of
the past but to try to celebrate the good things that have been
achieved and to look to the future in a celebratory and
positive way. We have much to be grateful for.
We need to try to correct the mistakes of the past. And look with
hope to the future. The past can't be reversed. The future
can be of benefit to all.

mhaze,

Afgans who've come to Australia work in many professions.
Including skilled work, community service, construction, Dept. of
Foreign Affairs and Trade, Australian Defence Force, Australian
Federal Police, Politics,. They've been coming since the mid
1800s. They've made names for themselves as -
cameleers, athletes, journalists, writers, and other
professionals.

They've even started their own businesses.With great success.

But whatever humps your camel.

Oh,o ... I thought Foxy had finally cottoned on. But then...

Well, resume normal transmission.

Its the laziest of logic. Some immigrants are successful therefore multiculturalism is successful.

Not everyone fails, not everyone succeeds at what they chose
to do. And there are different measures of success dpending
on your values.

My parents wanted us to learn about the history of this country.
They also wanted us to learn about our own occupied country. They
felt it important to know and try to understand the heritage of
our past as well as our future heritage.

They wanted us to be culturally aware so that we could
acknowledge our world views and knowledge.

At the same time I grew up experiencing many other cultures as
well. Growing up in the Western suburbs of Sydney - it was
hard not to.

I found that it all helped me grow as a person.
Travelling also helped. It built empathy and helped me navigate social
complexities. I got a better understanding of the differences in
the cultures and beliefs of others.

Cultures and their heritages reflect and shape values, beliefs
and aspirations - defining a people's national identity.
Therefore it is important to preserve our own national heritage
because it keeps our integrity as a people.

Multiculturalism has worked because Australian governments
with thrit services and programs amd immigration systems
have tried to eliminate racism and discrimination.

Something of which we can all now be proud. And which has finally
allowed for individual differences and successes.

"Synagogue in southern Sydney vandalised in 'horrifying' incident"

http://tiny.cc/gyw4001

Three cheers... another example of the success of multiculturalism.

The success or failure of multiculturalism isn't about the success or otherwise of individuals. Its about the effects on society. In Australia, mixing of cultures is bearable because the numbers of those from alien cultures has been kept small and manageable by those who understand the potential problem.

Multiculturalism has monumentally failed in other locations like England, France, Germany and to some extent the US because numbers weren't controlled and those from alien cultures were allowed in in numbers that destabilised the economy and the national consensus.

Saying multiculturalism is fine and acceptable only when numbers are small is like saying leprosy is okey-dokey so long as its restricted to the pinkie.

If people want to continue their multicultural fantasies then so be it. So long as that doesn't extend to wanting to expand what is clearly a failed experiment.

The reality is multiculturalism in Australia is not
a "failed experiment". On the contrary. It's been
a successful one. And the reason it happened was because
Aussie lions stopped being led by British donkeys.

It may have been forgotten, or some never knew that we had a grooming
gang here in Sydney quite some years back. Called the Bilal gang.
One girl was courageous enough to speak out and unlike Britain the
Police acted. I cannot remember if some were sent to gaol.
It did get to the courts however and it was a moslem gang.
It never got, as far as I know, to the organised level that it was in the UK.
There were a few people that tried to hush it up.

Well the Bilal Skaf gang was a larger gang than I remembered.
The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to 14 youths led by Bilal Skaf against Australian women and teenage girls (2 with Italian parents, 1 with Greek parents and one Aboriginal Australian girl),[1] as young as 14, in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia across several days in 2000. The crimes, described as ethnically motivated hate crimes by officials and commentators,[2][3] were covered extensively by the news media, and prompted the passing of new laws. In 2002, the nine men convicted of the gang rapes were sentenced to a total of more than 240 years in jail. According to court transcripts, Judge Michael Finnane described the rapes as events that "you hear about or read about only in the context of wartime atrocities"

I wonder if there are any such gangs active now.
I remember at the time there was concern about their intelligence due
to their common practice of cousin marriage.

Trumpster,

"No one knows how many but numbers of 250,000 girls are in the ball park." As usual Trumpster admits he is clueless, so lets wack in a real big shocking number, like 250,000, why not say 47 million since you don't know, and be done with it.

"And they did it because of their culture" Trumpster is good on extrapolation, presents his opinions as facts, no its because they had dicks.

Back to the topic. As an educated skin head, you throw out that old anti-migrant furphy, "Bringing in Italian refugees in 1950 helped us (des us include you, me thinks not) build the Snowy-Hydro (btw it was named the Snowy Mountain Scheme, get it right) no mention of the millions, the vast majority of post war migrants, Europeans and others, who contributed the successful wealth producing industrial base development here. Then the classic; "bringing in Afghan goat herders in 2018" how many? 250,000 seems to be your fanciful number when you don't know. GIVE ME THE NUMBER, of ex-goat herders from Afghanistan who arrived in Australia in 2018, otherwise I say you are full of it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots#Background

"There remains a great deal of debate as to whether previous racially charged attacks in the area like the Sydney gang rapes contributed to the tensions, or if the subsequent trials were used as justification for the attacks, despite many reporting otherwise."

Kudos Kid,

"like the Sydney gang rapes" are you referring to the gang rape and murder of Anita Cobby by 5 Anglo men John Travers, Michael Murdoch and Michael, Gary and Les Murphy, they were given life sentences. Was that a "cultural thing", or a despicable crime committed by human feces! According to people like you, when it suits your mantra its cultural, when it don't its just a crime.

Was that a "cultural thing", or a despicable crime committed by human feces!
Paul1405,
My guess is that they did it because they are human faeces !
Your lowest of low opportunistic quip is akin to a Caucasian saying only five of many non-Caucasians are good !

There's more at the following link:

http://cis.org.au/publication/the-future-of-australian-multiculturalism/#:

The given link from the Centre for Independent Studies
is a series of essays that raise relevant issues:

"The success of Australia's cohesive and multicultural
society over the past sixty years or more has depended on
a simple compact in return for the citizen being free to
maintain private cultural and religious traditions, the
state expects observance of our norms and laws".

What follows are views on diversity. Is it division or
unity and is there a multicultural threat to Australia's
liberal democracy and what next for multiculturalism?

Worth a read. Food for thought.

http://cis.org.au/publication/the-future-of-australian-multiculturalism/#:

It seems that multiculturalism has been idling along without a great
deal of hassle. "Their a queer mob" was an example of that.
If the problems with Arabs could be deleted, the atmosphere would be
much calmer.
I see an Ice Hockey match is cancelled "for security reasons".
Guess where the visiting team is from ?
Why should we put up with this nonsense ?

The Centre For Independent Studies is a Libertarian group adopting a naive ideological multicultural philosophy without considering the survival of the locals. According to the article- "Multiculturalism and the promotion of diversity was originally intended to counter the ‘whiteness’ of Australian society that was a legacy of its founding."

The CIS seems to say that multiculturalism is inherently anti-white and Anglophobic and that this is a good thing.

The CIS seems to imply that killing cultures is necessary for "objectivity". This is the sort of fanatisicm that is causing genocide, seemingly in the mouths of people such as Foxy.

Principles of Libertarianism can be useful tools within certain constraints, as production is necessary for survival, but when the principles of production are extended perversely to destroying the people being produced for, it subverts nature, turning life giving production into death.

As Francisco D'Anconia says in the speech, money represents the production of value, but...
http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

Libertarian's believe that all problems can be solved with money. Money is usually a strength- but as Rand says- it doesn't replace stupidity.

Culture should be subjective not objective to their own survival and their own nation. Why would anybody try to convince someone that they should be "objective" about their own survival?- A morbid evil seduction.

Cause and effect. Another case of bait and switch, paradoxical trickery, substituting life for death. Transparent attempt of one culture killing another culture- money for death- but what use is the money if it kills you.

The sort of Edward Bernays style- evil consumerist "heart before mind" strategy to cause mass psychosis sociopathic formation. Uncle Freud seemingly projected his own 'issues' onto western society.

We need to transcend the paradox.

People are practical or theoretical but both are held hostage to their position in hierarchical society. That doesn't mean that hierarchies are bad, they have "limitations". The wise have an amazing vocation, to give their lives, and very soul, tortured till pure, to the conceptual patterns of dreams, to create the fabric of society, embued in their spirit.

100 generations ago- Aristotle was about practical experience, real politik, Plato about abstract theoretical conceptualisation, ideology, idealism. Socrates- might is not right. Thought is hostage to survival in interesting ways.

Machiavelli 10 generations ago, compared the subsidiarity localization practical experiential model of the Catholic Church, with the "mighty" authoritarianism theoretical "objective" model of the Ottoman Turk's.

Nietzsche 3 generations ago, compared the 100 generations of the Knightly practical "productivity" code of morality, with the Priestly/ Academic theoretical "pity" code.

The members of a decaying social system will try and preserve it, to preserve their individual position, waiting for a new leader arrives. When the decay is great enough, spontaneuous systemic explosive fragmentation occurs. Individuals and diads in tune with nature have a better chance. But what is the cause of the fragmentation- has it simply extended beyond the scale of design- are there toxins in the oitment- or is it cyclical??

The psychotic paradoxes of toxic thinking.

Academia and universities have definitely used multiculturalism and immigration "successfully" it seems, in a contemptible sort of way, as the major beneficiaries of the Education Industry. It's given professors a way to buy new foreign cars in exchange for their betrayal of the Australian ancestral people.

Being a traitor can be a very profitable success, at least in the short term, to individuals and their families.

It seems that Foxy considers it a success.

" It's given professors a way to buy new foreign cars in exchange for their betrayal of the Australian ancestral people. Being a traitor can be a very profitable success, at least in the short term, to individuals and their families."

This is typical neo-fascists talk; All the problems of the "proletariat" are caused by the underservicing elite class of the "inteligencia", supported by a Marxist political class, all profiting from the misery of the working class.

What the Kudos Kid doesn't realise is, that as a neo-fascists himself, his political ideology is closer to Marxism (horseshoe politics) than to any moderate main stream democratic liberalism. Given power these far right extremists would move quickly to shut down any opposition, that would include expulsing society of the parasitic so a new utopian (fascisms) social order can be instigated. Hitler and Mussolini did it, so to on the other side, Stalin and Mao did likewise.

Kudos Kid, is it true all those university professors are driving around in taxpayer funded Lamborghini's? You're probably that far gone you most likely believe it.

I don't think a Lamborghini would bestow the right kind of social status on a professor- too much glitter not enough power- although their penchant for sexy profligate adventures with the unaware vulnerables may be similar- think more taxpayer or student fee funded Audi's or Mercedes- just look around the university carpark.

Maybe we need leaders that are builders...

Not that I am an expert- Fascism and Marxism both come from the Hegelian "absolute naive idealism" school of Political Philosopy- that's probably the biggest similarity.

Classical Fascism seems to distribute power through an armed population, Marxism seems to concentrate it in the secret police. I can't see an armed population being enslaved- so Fascism would presumably be less totalitarian than Marxism.

I would prefer to have an armed population than a secret police state.

I'm not sure about the horseshoe theory, but it probably has it's use, in the correct context. You could say that a straight line is really a circle too, at infinity, and there are different types of infinity, what is infinity x infinity, the wonders of mathematical abstraction ...

In a sense Fascism perhaps sees itself as a better Marxism, a hybridization of Traditionalism and Marxism, but it's probably much more Traditional than Marxist.

Classical Fascism believes in traditional structures such as the family, Marxism does not.

Classical Fascism believes in Localist Nationalism, Marxism is Globalist and Industrialist similar to Capitalism.

Marxism believes that academics should be in control, Capitalists believe that leaders need to be tested against reality.

Notice I didn't use an Ad Hitlerum (Ad Hominem) attack on Paul1405 here- I just implied he might be wrong- it's up to the read to make the explicit judgement. It's naive to believe that zellots can be rational, but we hope that most can potentially learn.

I consider myself a Traditionalist, in spite of Paul1405's erudite ascribations, I feel uncomfortable with Hegelianism.

I believe that we need to protect our culture and territory, preferably without violence, but with violence if necessary. State violence is different than individual violence, just as order is different than chaos.

So much irony, but two questions really. One is the effect of immigration. No per capita economic benefit from Albo's million+ with seven successive quarters of negative per capita growth, and a housing shortage with it. I think it can work a bit better with better planning.

The other aspect is multiculturalism, and in this respect western civilisation is exemplary as a demonstration of how much further and faster a civilisation can develop by encouraging the interaction of human beings and ideas.

I find it interesting to hear about life in other nations. One I know from an authoritarian country: cult leader, government officials beyond question/accountability and huge corruption consequently, anti-intellectualism, especially when it does not support the cult leader's vision, elevation of the indigenous monoculture, obsession with misinformation and disinformation, great Satan America, all white people are racist: Very much the same as the philosophy of cult leader Albo.

But as shining an example of the triumph of multiculturalism that Australia is, there is so much irony, as I often observe exponents revering uncontaminated monocultures as perfect societies. I also frequently see them carrying a self-loathing of Australia's civilisation as well as a hatred of the descendants of those who first brought multiculturalism to the continent.

It must be the commies!

So much has changed over time due to waves of migration,
a growing population, a significant increase in immigrants
from Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. And of course,
this has resluted in changing attitudes.

We've had refugees from wars, the number of international
students has more than doubled in the last two decades,
Plus, more than half of our population are born overseas
or have a parent born overseas. English is our country's
language, but there are many other languages spoken in
homes, apart from English and their influences have had
an affect.

Attitudes have changed. Many Australians support multiculturalism
and believe that migrants are good for the country. However,
discrimination and prejudice based on skin colour, ethnic
origin or religion remains a challenge. The conflict in the
Middle East has brought demonstrations and unrest, and
violence onto our streets.

We've seen so many changes. From the composition of our people,
to our immigration policies, to what we prohibit on
discrimination, equality, and the law concerning people and
various cultural policies that promote diversity (SBS). All
have changed with time.

The biggest change has been that up until the 1960s Australians
saw themselves as being British ( but also Australian).
This changed as Britain went into Europe and former British
colonies like Australia established their own trading
relationships , Today Australia is more American in its culture
than British.

Who knows what the future holds for us.

There's more at:

http://nationhood.org.au/our_australian_identity#:

Paul has this interesting way of arguing from his ignorance. First he deliberately remains ignorant on an issue, then assumes everyone else is equally ignorant and then says since we are all ignorant we can't draw any conclusions. And then he draws conclusions!!

So as to the number of women raped, people Paul hasn't the slightest concern for, he writes "As usual Trumpster admits he is clueless, so lets wack in a real big shocking number, like 250,000, why not say 47 million since you don't know, and be done with it."

Paul, being deliberately ignorant, thinks the 250,000 number is made up. Since I can't say if its 249,793 or 251,803 it is completely fictious, to the thinking (for want of a better word) of Paul.

What, in his ignorance, he doesn't realise is that no one knows how many were raped, because the British establishment, the Labour Party, the bureaucracy, the police, the social workers, the feminists, and most of all the Pakistani community itself, deliberately sought to keep it secret and unexamined. Struth, just yesterday the British Labour Party voted to NOT have an inquiry because, it is assumed, it will reveal how badly they were implicated in facilitating the mass rape of 12-15 yr old white kids. And just how far their leader was involved in the cover-up.

But the 250,000 number isn't made up. Its extrapolated from what is known. 'Extrapolated'... well now Paul is confused.

If Paul were to decide to become less ignorant on this (now that's a laugh) he'd find hundreds of articles using the 250,000 figure eg http://tiny.cc/uh25001 ..."As per certain estimates, more than 250,000 White girls have been abused to date by the grooming gangs, the majority of whom were barely teenagers. Their ordeal as captured in transcripts is too graphic to share, making one wonder how perverse a human being can become to a vulnerable child."

Or how perverse one has to be to take offence at being made aware of the depravity.

.

Our Aboriginal compatriots inhabited the country for over 65,000 years There was no multiculturism in those days.

Multiculturism began with the arrival of the first fleet of British convicts in 1788. That’s when the problems began.

Almost ten generations later, many of our Aboriginal compatriots still have problems integrating the new culture.

In addition, subsequent waves of migrants continue to pose problems, not only for our Aboriginal compatriots but also for the preceding waves of foreign migrants – though to a far lesser extent than the ten generations of migrants of multicultural ancestry caused our monocultural indigenous peoples.

While I thoroughly abhor all the pain and suffering engendered by the clash of our two cultures, I nevertheless consider that multiculturism is preferable to monoculturalism and am pleased that the former prevailed.

Here are some of the pros and cons of the two systems :

http://eitherchoice.com/fight/multiculturalism-vs-monoculturalism

.

There are a few mantras that the faithful chant without thought or evidence but which they nonetheless believe with the surety of the converted...

Diversity is Strength.... this is said so often that its become a truism. But ask for evidence and... crickets. There is no evidence. Its one of those things we are told we just have to believe lest we are labelled the dreaded 'racist'. And for the left, that's the worst of all possible fates.

Multiculturalism is good for the economy.... Fester has pointed out that, despite massive immigration recently, per capita GDP has stalled. But its worse, far far worse than that. Because its not just about increases in GDP (or lack thereof) but about what we lost by going down the multi-culti path.

At the beginning of the 20th century Australia was ranked number 1 in the world in per capita income. (Alongside Argentina). By 1950 we'd slipped to number 5 (alongside Venezuela!!). That's when we started bringing in these migrants that were going to super-charge the economy.

By 1970 when we started down the multiculturalism path we'd slipped to number 12.
Now? Now we are ranked number 23....and falling.

Sure each Australian is richer today that any other time. But we've missed oportunities to have an even higher standard of living. If we'd maintained our 1950 position, each person would have, on average, a standard of living 25% higher than now.

We gave up a lot for the warm inner-glow of multiculturalism.

There goes Trumpster with supposition; " By 1950 we'd slipped to number 5 (alongside Venezuela!!).. If we'd maintained our 1950 position, each person would have, on average, a standard of living 25% higher than now." Trumpster why 1950, we could be number one like according to you; "At the beginning of the 20th century Australia was ranked number 1 in the world in per capita income. (Alongside Argentina)" I don't think too many Australians want to have the same living standard as the average Venezuelan, or the average Argentinian for that matter. Where the Venezuelans and Argentinians went wrong was they failed to embrace multiculturalism, instead of only letting in Nazi refugees and the odd Spaniard, with multiculturalism they could be enjoying in 2025 the same standard of living as the average Australian.

Dear Paul,

The past year has been tumultuous. But hey, we survived.

I am getting old. I feel it in my bones. When our
Australian Lithuanian newspaper from Sydney, "Musu
Pastoge", arrives my first reaction is -
"Who died?" So many of our friends have left us.

Still, hard as it is, I am determined to not give up
just yet. There's still fun to be had.

With that thought in mind as I hurtle towards
incontinence and immobility - I shall continue to
appreciate what I have today. And I shall continue
to find things that will make me smile.

I am grateful for the past and what it gave me.

I firmly believe in telling the true story of a
nation's history.

Anyway, here's something to make you smile:

I made myself a snowball
As perfect as could be
I thought I'd keep it as a pet
And let it sleep with me

I made it some pyjamas
And a pillow for its head
Then late last night it ran away
But first- it wet the bed!

Paul remains determined to demonstrate his ignorance.

I wasn't suggesting that we try to keep up with Venezuela or Argentina. That was in the past. I only mentioned them because it shows how badly nations can fail. BTW they didn't fail because of multiculturalism. Argentina failed because, instead of investing their wealth in the early 20th century in nation building, they spent it on welfare and luxuries. Venezuela failed because they elected communists and that's ALWAYS a short-cut to destitution.

But what I was saying is that, had we maintained our relatively position as number 5 from 1950 to 2020, we'd be significantly better-off. BTW the state that is currently ranked 5 is Norway and they have a standard of living significantly higher than ours.

If this is all too complex for you, see if you can find a vaguely numerate 10 year to walk you through it.

The upshot of all that is that the claim that multiculturalism is integral to our prosperity doesn't stand scrutiny and is just another of those claims, like Diversity is Strength, that is asserted but never demonstrated.

Australia used to be a cultural backwater. When the
choices for goods and services was so limited. When
Christmas decorations were paper streamers and
balloons. When bread was on one kind. When dentists
puled out teeth instead of trying to fix them.

When ballet, opera, theatre, film, art, architecture,
fashion, medicine, science, and more,
was quite limited. When innovation did not exist.
All that changed with immigration = and mirgants demanding
products, goods and services. Many got rich as a result.
And the country benefited and was able to compete glabally.

Diversity fosters innovation and problem solving by
pushing people to look at things from different perspectives.
And that to most of us is a strength. One that has been
demostrated in this country many times over decades.

"And the country benefited and was able to compete glabally."

And yet we went backwards economically as compared to other nations. I suspect this is such an alien concept to those who've fallen for the tenets of multiculturalism as to be beyond understanding.

You see its all just assertions. Diversity causes innovation? Why? How? Where's the evidence? In fact looking through history, the most innovative nations are those that are most homogeneous.

"I nevertheless consider that multiculturism is preferable to monoculturalism and am pleased that the former prevailed."

Wait, What? they're the only options? No grey here? How about a system which allows people of similar, but differing, culture to immigrate but encourages them to assimilate with the dominant culture and adhere to the principles of the culture that created the country they wanted to come to. You know, a multicultural nation that doesn't buy into the tenets of multiculuralism.

Foxy said "Australia used to be a cultural backwater".

A- Foxy is offensive and Anglophobic to me.

Hi Foxy,

The Forums Usual Suspects, only want migrants like themselves, white male Anglo geriatrics who can play parcheesi with the like minded. It would do wonders for the incontinence pad industry, not to mention the mass production of Doz-Ezy pills for the old fellas down at the Shangri-La Rest Home for Old Farts, don't you agree?

To The Trumpster, who thinks Australia should be white only and rank along side Venezuela with a two bob economy, civil unrest and rampant inflation.

Australia is a highly developed country with a mixed economy. Here are some economic highlights for Australia:
Size
Australia is one of the world's largest economies, ranking 13th in the world by GDP.
Growth
Australia's economy is consistently growing faster than other advanced economies.
Trade
Australia is a major regional exporter, with exports of goods and services growing from $3.2 billion in 1963-64 to $331.2 billion in 2013-14.
Resources
Australia has abundant natural resources, including minerals, sunshine, wind, waves, and tidal rhythms.
Energy
Australia is a world leader in solar capacity per capita and has held the world record for the most efficient solar cells for 30 of the last 37 years.
Global rankings
Australia consistently ranks highly in global indexes as a desirable destination to live, work, study, and invest.
Australia's economic prosperity is built on strong foundations, including good governance, open markets, and the rule of law.

"who thinks Australia should be white only and rank along side Venezuela"

Couldn't find that 10 year old to explain this to you Paul?

Trumpster,

It was YOU who linked Australia to Venezuela, not me. They run your kinda elections, and Nicolas Maduro seems to be your kinda president, a chip of the old Trump block. BTW; US has just give temporary visas to 600,000 Venezuelans, you must hate that! Anyway your man Trump has vowed to kick the bastards out! back down to his old mate Maduro.

How we look at the changes that have happened in this
country over the decades I guess is subjective and our
perspectives will undoubtedly vary from our own
experiences. My father died of a massive coronary at the
age of 52. In those days they didn't have the medicial
help that is available today for heart attacks. He may
have lived longer had his attack happened today.

Today there are many things that diversity has brought us.
We have diversity today in -
What we drink, eat, wear, drive. The careers we choose
and what sort of education and careers we pursue. We
have better innovation in science, infrastructure,
medicine, health, aged care. People have many choices in their
lifestyles. Sexual orientation, gender, religious inclinations
(or not) and the lists go on.We are not expected to all be
exactly the same.

Of course there are challenges and problems. There always
will be. But for me at least - I like the wider choices that
we have today in so many things.

As for being anti-white? No. I don't judge people by their
colour but by their behaviour. There's rotters in every colour.

And as for being Anglophobic? That's a lazy term thrown
around by those who've run out of arguments. Like Anti-Semitic,
Woke Marxist, et cetera. I love this country. I love our
system of government. I acknowledge our British history. No history
is perfect but I prefer our institutions and government to the American one.
I like the safeguards that we have in place.

And our feelings towards Britain will always remain strong
no matter what the future may hold for us. I am indeed
grateful for the foundation that my past has given me.
It's not something I can or would turn my back on.

But I also look to the future to make things even better
for us all.

"It was YOU who linked Australia to Venezuela, not me."

I was giving some historical context.

Why am I not surprised it went over your head?

"Why are some people against multiculturalism?"

Am I automatically supposed to be supportive of multiculturalism?
Why are some people for multiculturalism?
Do the benefits outweigh the problems?

That's up to you to decide.

We all have our own experiences and perspectives on
this subject. Hence this discussion to debate the
issues.

Come on AC,

I spotted you down at the Golden Dragon the other night knocking back that feed of Chicken Chow Min and Rice. I bet you got all culturized and had a Short Soup and a traditional Fried Ice Cream for afters. AND I seen ya using those plastic chop sticks, no worries those stains down the front of the shirt will come out in the wash..maybe! Its all part of the cultural experience.

PS, I'm more into the traditional Italian culture myself, A Dominos Meat Lovers Pizza with a Garlic Bread on the side, and a can of Fanta to wash it all down, can't get more culturized than that. If me Aussie lions cut in then its down to Greasy Freddy's Take Away near your place, for a good old Aussie style Chiko Roll.

If anyone ever makes you feel like an outsider
Sing at the top of your voice:

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream, and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian".

We'll share a dream,
Foxy,
Many of us do, many don't want us to have a dream because hatred doesn't come in dream form. Just look at the Woke !

& sing with one voice; again many do but many don't & even kneel while the sincere are standing, singing the lyrics !

Every culture needs their own nation. Multiculturalism is genocide. Globalism is genocide. Marxism and Capitalism are both global industrialist ideologies. Traditionalism believes in continuity of culture.

I believe that Foxy and Paul1405 are racist.

"I spotted you down at the Golden Dragon the other night"
That'd be my mate Stir-Man down at the Redland Bay Chinese cafe.

I had to laugh at your comment since I actually did grab the Chinese $9.90 special down at the Victoria Point Shopping Centre earlier today, it's not as good as Stir-Man, more like a City Wok Special, but it was alright, load in the beef and blackbean, honey chicken and chicken and vegetable all in one tub and seperate them with fried rice and load more of the same on top and cram that lid down...

Thank you Mr Chinese man.

Deep fried Ice cream... I don't think I've had that since I was a kid.

If you like a good pizza try Panchos, though Wynnum Pizza and Pizzaland weren't bad back in the day.

I don't hate foreigners, I just don't want to play 'spot the Aussie' in my own country either.
Surely there's some middle ground.

Rental prices have skyrocketed of late, and Aussies are living in the local parks by the thousands, this doesn't seem like a good outcome to me.

"We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream, and sing with one voice
"I am, you are, we are Australian".

We did share a dream, now it's ruined by bloody immigrants..
Can't even get a house rental for under $1000 a week around here.
And I bet that's cheap compared to other places.

More than 1000 rescues this summer amid spike in NSW beach visits
http://www.9news.com.au/national/nsw-news-more-than-1000-rescues-this-summer-amid-spike-in-beach-visits/55de6b91-c0ab-43c9-b63d-69864d35f3da

Mostly foreigners I bet.
Maybe the Surf Life Saving Clubs shuld stop trying to raise money from the locals and start charging the foreign born and tourists for their rescues.

Hi CM,

I consider the question of multiculturalism a little differently. In looking at the nations and people of the world, I take the view that it is the interaction of people, for good or bad, that has been the most powerful driver of the development of civilisation. People at the centre of that flux of people and ideas have developed at a vastly greater rate than those walled off or at the end of the railway line.

No, I don't think Foxy or Paul are racist. I've taken a liking to them, as I have to many here. OLO is a little mug of the swirling soup of ideas and argument that drive the world onward, giving hope that our civilisation will continue to grow and prosper.

What confuses me is why Foxy and Paul should choose to favour a people who shun multiculturalism over a people who embrace it. A people living in a land of a monoculture, xenophobic, homophobic, and raising their children to believe it their duty to kill every Jew on earth, hardly sounds to me a place that exponents of multiculturalism would be championing.

Marxism is about the global rule of the academy idealists in the style of Plato, they want to destabilize and absorb other global structures using social engineering, not just white structures. Machiavelli compared Asian to European models of government. Marxism seems to be essentially an Asian style of government. They are using the European principle of "equality under law" against itself.

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/57037/pg57037-images.html

CHAPTER IV
WHY THE KINGDOM OF DARIUS, OCCUPIED BY ALEXANDER, DID NOT REBEL AGAINST THE SUCCESSORS OF THE LATTER AFTER HIS DEATH.

"the kingdoms known to history have been governed in two ways: either by a prince and his servants, who, as ministers by his grace and permission, assist in governing the realm; or by a prince and by barons, who hold their positions not by favour of the ruler but by antiquity of blood. Such barons have states and subjects of their own, who recognise them as their lords, and are naturally attached to them."

"In those states which are governed by a prince and his servants, the prince possesses more authority, because there is no one in the state regarded as a superior besides himself, and if others are obeyed it is merely as ministers and officials of the prince, and no one regards them with any special affection. Examples of these two kinds of government in our own time are the Turk and the King of France. All the Turkish monarchy is governed by one ruler, the others are his servants, and dividing his kingdom into "sangiacates," he sends to them various administrators, and changes or recalls them at his pleasure. But the King of France is surrounded by a large number of ancient nobles, recognised as such by their subjects, and loved by them; they have their prerogatives, which the king cannot deprive them of without danger to himself. Whoever now considers these two states will see that it would be difficult to acquire the state of the Turk; but having conquered it, it would be very easy to hold it."

"Therefore, whoever assaults the Turk must be prepared to meet his united forces, and must rely more on his own strength than on the disorders of others"

_______________

At least the capitalist's believe in testing their leaders against reality, in the style of Aristotle

Godamn this place is a cesspit of racism and hatred. You right wing nut jobs need to take a chill pill or better still just go towards the light.
Never seen such disgusting bigotry and fear of non whites since the olden days. No way is that bs coming back.

Hi AC,

PIzzaland at Manly West, best pizza's this side of Rome, $36 (was $29) for the family wopper, but still good value. Run by Asians these days, but they make a great pizza, makes the American fast food jobs pale into the shade. Also Vin's (Vietnamese) fish and chips next door has terrific fish n' chips, Only a young bloke, but he and his wife work really hard 6 days a week, their stuff is always fresh. If I want a decent hamburger I go to Wayne's Take-Away at Wynnum North, Wayne is also Asian (Don't think his name is Wayne), still making the old style hamburger with beetroot etc on a huge bun. Honestly take-aways run by Asian people are always the best in town, well usually, do you agree?

"Godamn this place is a cesspit of racism and hatred."
Maybe that's because multiculturalism has enriched many people, but driven others out of business and entrenched the poverty and hardship of others.
It's not exactly a win-win for everyone.
It is for some, but for others its a zero-sum game.

Am I a racist?

I don't think I am. I don't believe that any race
or ethnicity has inherent superiority. And I don't
discriminate or show prejudice or antagonism against
people on the basis of their race or ethnicity. I judge
people by their behaviour. Because as I posted earlier -
there are rotters in all races and ethnicities. I

There are so many stereotypes - but it is educational
when these stereotypes are broken. That's how we learn
and grow.

And I have learned so much from posting on this forum.
Even though quite often - it's what not to do.

As for those who find multiculturalism a zero-sum game?
Well, that's inevitable I guess. Based on our own
values, beliefs, and experiences in life. I consider
myself so lucky in having the family that I've had. In
the beliefs that I've acquired, but beliefs that
are not set in concrete. And in my continued
learning - through my experiences.

I have been very fortunate. And there's still so much
more to learn - especially if we manage to get rid of our
stereotypes.

Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone on this forum - for
hopefully making me a better person by making me see
things through a different lens at times. It's been
frustrating at times, that I have to admit. But well worth
the experience and the result.

mikk,
You don't know what racism is by the sounds of it.

"Am I a racist?
I don't think I am. I don't believe that any race or ethnicity has inherent superiority."

So... I watched this segment on youth crime out in regional Australia, maybe out near Kingaroy or Murgon, maybe aboriginal kids it wasn't stated.

Watch: Residents of Queensland town at breaking point over youth crime | A Current Affair
http://youtu.be/fCVV8lmvkEk

Some towns don't even have a permanent police presence.

Meanwhile we've given the Jewish community who represent 0.4% of the community 91 million in the last year or 2, to spend on security, (got to protect them when they are conducting a genocide) inc. several million towards holocaust museums and the like - and the rest of the country 99.6% received 37 million for similar services.
(We need to be able to send people like me to be re-educated with guilt - even though I'm not responsible for anything that happened before I was born)
And get this, we even engage the counter terrorism task force when some people decide to go spray a few swastikas here and there.

Who cares about the rest of the country being held ransom to youth crime, and government slaps on the wrist.
Meanwhile, I bet the people who sprayed those swastikas will get life imprisonment for terrorism when caught.
Can't have foreign counties standing up and getting in the way of Israels genocide of women and kids.

Ultimately, it seems we already have a supremacist society in Australia.
- Meanwhile the rest of the country doesn't even matter.

Am I a racist for pointing out the double standards?

From what I see- Of course Foxy feels lucky, she was born into an immigrant family, that escaped instability from across the sea, to a land of open opportunity that her family was just given, and didn't have to forge life out of bare stone. Building a motor is hard. But it's harder to build a motor when you have to get the steel out of the rocks, or from 18,000 kms away, rather than going to the shop. Civilizations that have a deep understanding of this, are strong resilient people that produce value on the earth. These are the people that created Australia- they are my people. People that want to criticise, the system of concrete belief's, need to understand first what it means to live without it, or not to live. People that create systems that create life are in a sense superior to those that don't- nature is a harch teacher- but if we learn the lessons we can make things easier for those that follow- but hope that this doesn't make them weak

Foxy was born into a family of refugees who lost
everything. Their country, their family, and much
more. They were not "given"anything. They worked
for everything. Worked very hard. They were invited
to this country to help solve the acute labour
shortage at the time. They had to sign two year contracts
and had to go and work wherever they were required and
sent.

They smashed rocks, built roads, cut sugar cane, worked
in hospitals, factories, built dams,saved rivers,
and did whatever
was necessar and more.y.
They raised their children to be independent
and to contribute to communities both professionally and
financially. Their children graduated from universities,
raised the bar of education, graduated from military
academies, joined the military through merit, and some even
became politicians, state premiers, sportsmen and women,
and gave back so much, and still do.

If people want their ancestries respected, they need to respect
the contributions that so many others have also made to this
country as well. There are many here past and present who
have made this country what it is today. We are one and we
are many, and from all the lands on earth we come...

It's time that we all acknowledged this - and stop making
people feel like outsiders. Or you will subsequently be
ignored - or worse - you'll be the outsiders and no
longer relevant - you will be cast on the ash heap of history.
And that would be a shame.

I firmly believe that the present is linked to the past.
That people need to be proud of their ancestry and to support
their communities. Which I have done both professionally and
by championing their causes and financially.

I believe in telling the true story of a nation's history.
And the importance of culture.

No one has the right to encourage division - that is not who we
are as Australians.

I am grateful to the past and what has been achieved.
And I look forward to the future and what more can
be achieved - united - together, not divided as
Australians all.

Is the "founder" less than the "leader"?
Is there such a thing as culture?
Do cultures have a right to self determination?
Do cultures have a right to their territory?
Is there such a thing as cultural property?
Is there such a thing as cultural appropriation?
Should we force others to need us?
etc

Ockham's Razor says "the simplest ideas are the best". In many cases, it might be appropriate to find the simplest solution, having least contradictions, until the solution meets issues of scale or similar. Therefore ask small questions first.

Woke Marxism seems to use civilization's greatness to destroy it. If civilization is good, big civilization is better, no! Globalization is not diversity, it's conformity. Marxist's perhaps want us to choke on our own principles. You like water, let us dump you in the Pacific Ocean and see if you still like it! You like equality of law, if we drown you in multiplying equality, you will cry out for tyranny.

Foxy seemingly will be happy to force civilizations and cultures into contact and conformity even if they don't want to be. After all if Foxy is superior in wisdom, she has a duty to educate the barbarians, to death and 'the ash heap of history' if necessary. The barbarian's want a future too, free from Foxy's molestations. Does Foxy want to be free to molest?
It appears that Foxy just wants what she wants, and doesn't care about those that want a different future than Foxy's one. It is this kind of dictatorial thinking that has led to the current impasse.

Confucius might be ashamed of Foxy and her pronouncements from 'on high'.

Most people just want to live with their families in peace.

Perhaps Foxy is afraid that her family will lose it's place in the hierarchy, and become stateless.
I'm sure that she can find a home, there are many people and states that will help. Even help her construct her own state.

Every culture needs their own nation.

With Foxy's idea's she is not part of my culture.

Where exaclt is your culture CM?

It's long gone both in the UK and in Oz.

And BTW - your validation is not necessary to tell me where
I belong. Never was, never will be!
(smile).

Hi CM,

I thought that groups of people created culture, not the other way round. As for racial purity, that makes it more likely that you won't be at the cutting edge of civilisation.

Australia Day should indeed be celebrated on January 26th. It is the day that the first illegal boat people arrived and marks the start of a modern multicultural continent.

If you try to destroy my culture from within, I'll do everything I can, to put you outside.
Destroying a culture from within is similar to the Marxist strategy of insertionism.

According to Britannica as the British Empire
expanded the country absorbed people throughout
the globe. English culture has been accented
with diverse contributions from Afro Caribbeans,
Asians, Muslims, and other immigrant groups.

Fish and chips and bangers and mash have been
replaced and given way to Indian, Chinese, Italian,
and other cuisines. Guitar based rock bands blend with
South Asian rap, and Afro-Caribbean salsa and even the
English language abounds in neologisms drawn from
nearly every one of the world's tongues.

CM,

You are the one who has placed himself - outside,
of reality.

Hi Fester,

Thank You!

I've got 2 things to say.
1. Foxy if you were born here, then you don't really need to validate yourself. Just say I'm Aussie, I was born here so ping ding.
2. If you keep defending immigrants and telling your story to validate it, people will keep thinking of you as an immigrant, because that's what you're identifying yourself as.

Finally, you can say how great immigrants are and what they've contributed to the country, but you're kind of skating on thin ice doing so.
The country is full to the brim right now with Albo's million in a year, we don't need more immigrants at this time.
Aussies that used to live in the 'lucky country' are now living homeless in local parks while the government splashes cash around to immigrants and minorities like it grows on trees.

I've been giving a great deal of thought to the
subject of this discussion. Tonight we're having
stir-fried noodles with chicken. My doctor is
from Persia (my Chinese doctor has retired). And
my family is made up of English, German, Scotish,
Irish, Welsh,Swedish, Ukrainian, and Russian, ancestries.

We're a diverse blend of values, traditions, and customs
that are influenced by a variety of cultures. We're known
for being laid-back, more individual, and outgoing.

This is reflected in our society in food, art, sport, film,
in our culture, fashion and music. That's why so many want
to come to this country. We should be proud of our
achievements and who we are today. We've come a long way.
We still have a long way to go.

Should we change our national anthem? Do we still want to
keep on singing the same national anthem for the next 50 years?
Something to ponder with Australia Day just around the corner.
We stopped singing "God Save The Queen", and replaced it with
"Advance Australia Fair", Does this really represent us?

Something to think about. Look at the words.

Hi AC,

It's an occupational habit. My wanting to correct and
set the record straight especially in response to
personal attacks. But thanks for your advice. As for
Aussies being homeless and living in parks. How come
immigrants manage to work, find homes, pay taxes, and
contribute to society instead of living off the welfare
state? Many work at 3 jobs to stay afloat.

The government has special criteris that it tries to meet
with its immigration system. Immigrants do provide skilled
labour and are prepared to work hard. If I were you
I'd not make generalisations - look deeper as to the real reasons
that ptoblems exist. Immigrant do carry their share of the
load. They always have.

Migrants should respect the dominant culture ... indeed, why would they want to come here if there was a cultural conflict.

Paul mentions the Sydney gang rapes by Anglo men. These creatures were individuals and did not represent their society.

When you hear of a leader of a particular group refer to Australian women as "cat's meat" in the context of rape, this demonstrates a cultural clash with Australian values.

I lived for ten years in a Muslim society, Europeans were very careful not to offend Muslim values. We dressed very modestly. Europeans respected and adhered to the dominant culture.

Hi Foxy,
Here's a woman who just stated that her friends rent went up $260 a week, and that Albo let in 105,000 immigrants last month.
I know that people may have taken offense in the past by saying 'Get lost we're full' but right now it really is true.
Like this is Albo's response to the cost of living crisis?

He couldn't even stop the power prices going up.
And the guy wants to put every battlers rent up?

http://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/1782566663122305063

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7zYOb9sd-s

That's just one recent example ! How would ALP deal with this ?

I am grateful to the past and what has been achieved.
Foxy,
Yeah ? Considering most of the building of this Nation was by conservative effort yet you attack Conservatism at every opportunity !

Hi Foxy,

I think of multiculturalism as being in the here and now, whereas the civilisation we enjoy is the culmination of past interactions. I think it commonplace for countries to recognise their origins over the contemporary makeup. You yourself did as much in arguing for the Voice. Nonetheless, we live in a democracy and things can change with enough public support.

Hi AC,

I've never been a fan of mass immigration, especially when it is not matched with the provision of housing, infrastructure and services, Cult leader Albo's levels are extreme, as is the hardship it is causing. It's yet another example of his pursuit of a radical ideology devoid of humanitarian considerations.

"Considering most of the building of this Nation was by conservative effort yet you attack Conservatism at every opportunity !"

Indy (The Man from the Un-Named Land) you are either joking or delusional, given what rubbish you post, I would think the latter applies to an old bloke like you.

Progress is achieved by the efforts of Progressive people. Conservatives by their nature resist change, they are people who see themselves as benefiting from the status quo. You see your unearned aged welfare as a benefit to you that you want protected at all cost, so your take a conservative attitude.

Paul1405,
You need to read up on the difference between people who create progress & those who call themselves progressive by hypocritically exploiting the former. Ring a bell with you ?