Indyvidual,

I firmly believe that children need guidance and
direction.

They need to be taught what's right and
what's wrong. I certainly don't believe that kids
should do whatever they want. But I
don't believe that if they do something wrong they
should be punished in the process.

Unfortunately punishment and discipline have too often
been used as inter-changeable terms. They shouldn't be.
Punishment is causing deliberate harm as a retribution.
Making something bad happen to someone as a way to make
them "pay" for what they did.

I prefer discipline.

Discipline is teaching and directing your child to
understand and take responsibility for their actions.

Punishment isn't effective in the long term. After a while
It no longer works. And has to be increased.

It encourages kids to lie and avoid punishment rather
than avoid the behaviour you're trying to stop.
And it only works for a while than has to be increased
once it stops working. Not a win-win situation.

In any case - that's my take on things.

I've worked with children - from tiny tots to teens, to
older students. There's been many challenges. But the
rewards have been enormous and a real learning process
which I suspect will continue for as long as I live.

Many of the perpetrators of domestic violence, and violence in general today, are people who were subjected to violence themselves as children. Sometimes the violence was directed towards the child, and sometimes the child witnessed violent behaviour from someone else towards another, often the victim would be their own mother, or a sibling. The "clip behind the ear" as a response simply reinforces the notion that violence is a legitimate response to negative behaviour, violence then becomes learned behaviour. As for the "de-sexing" rubbish, just nonsense.

Now the term "violence" is introduced. Again, this is a clear indicator of people losing track of normal, common sense.
The scenario I first described is the most common reaction of new age, post Baby boomer parents. The utter lack of basic, instinctive discipline & utter lack of understanding it has instantly been twisted into violence & extreme examples. A young child who misbehaves will not comprehend that a soft-spoken "please don't be naughty" is something to heed. A slight "clip behind the ear" or a "slap" on the backside will be interpreted as something to heed.
Is it any wonder that school children run amok & the worse than their children parents are totally off the rail at the slightest disciplining by someone who has to actually take the step of disciplining them because the me, me dumb-as-crap social "experts' object ?
These out of control kids are the young adults we'll have to deal with, not the stupid parents !
I just hope those objecting to basic harmless discipline will become victims of these indisciplined little craps one day just to experience how stupid their views actually are !
I have & forgiveness is not the way after you've lost over fifty grand worth of equipment & have the little craps laugh at you because they know they can & do it to others as well without repercussion !!

Indyvidual

The leading post was in reference to a five and six YO. Your last post has introduced a new dimension of Juvenile crime. What that does is links early child hood discipline with a later stage developmental outcome. That linking may or may not be so relevant when there may be many more factors involved, or more water under the bridge since early childhood.

Juvenile crime is much more linked to peer pressure and other environmental factors such as family breakdown which is rife; drugs and alcohol play a significant role in anti social behaviour, and poverty of the individual culprits. Lack of resources will induce crime.

So which issue do you want to deal with? It seems to me your judgment is to blame all, current and future behavioural issues on early childhood activity.
This is what I point out, the two are not necessarily contiguous.

your judgment is to blame all, current and future behavioural issues on early childhood activity.
diver dan,
Allowing a mentality of indifference towards others to flourish unchallenged is not caused by early childhood activity. It is caused by unqualified parenting snow-balling !

Nuremberg Dan, Nimbin Paul Here,

I actually agree with something you've said;

"Juvenile crime is much more linked to peer pressure and other environmental factors such as family breakdown which is rife; drugs and alcohol play a significant role in anti social behaviour, and poverty of the individual culprits. Lack of resources will induce crime."

I see that in my own grandchildren, the environment they were brought up in is what has them now becoming decent adults, as they pass from their teens to adults. Well adjusted through a good home environment, schooling and their social environment, those things, "have done them well". I've met kids who never had a chance from the start, very sad home life.

Me thinks there is one old bloke who just wants the perverted pleasure of belting little children on their bare backsides.