Opposition Leader Peter Dutton says he is not racist
as MPs condemn his Gaza visa ban stance.

He says that he doesn't believe people fleeing from
Gaza should be allowed into Australia.

Independent MP Zali Steggall called Dutton racist in
Parliament. She defended her stance.

The Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister - Tony Burke
have both defended the screening process - saying that the
process is the same now as it was under the Coalition
government.

Should Australia accept people fleeing from Gaza after
venting their suitability by the process currently in place?

Why or why not?

If Dutton is not racist then neither is Abbott.

if Dutton is not racist then neither is Abbott.

Should Australia accept people fleeing from Gaza?

If he was calling for the banning of all people from a particular RACE then that would be racist. He's not. QED.

All it shows is that he's more concerned about the welfare of Australians than the warm inner glow of feel-good policies.

Perhaps we should propose that all the Gazans bought here be housed in Zali Steggall's electorate. See how much she craves the warm inner glow then.

I don't understand Mr Dutton's concerns.

He wants to put a ban on refugees from Gaza because
they "may" be supporters of Hamas? - This doesn't make
any sense. In that case perhaps we should ban all
refugees - for who or what they "may" support.

Surely going through the venting process that is in place
should suffice?

Cartoonist Fiona Katauskas had a cartoon that read:

"They talk about what we could be but never about what
we are:

Starving, homeless, injured, traumatised, exhausted,
and in desperate need of help."

And another that pointed out:

"Amazing how many politicians and commentators think you
can't carry two placards at once. One saying - "Anti-Hamas."
The other - "Anti Israel bombing and starving innocent
people."

As for the Gazans being brought here being placed in
Zali Steggall's electorate?

I think coming from a refugee background she would not have a
problem with that. She'd have been used to the old chestnut
being asked - "What have refugees ever done for us?"

And she'd know the answers like - well there was the Snowy
Mountains Project. And, nation-building, and their
contribution to the Arts, and business, and the economy, and
comedy, and science, and sport."

And talking about a warm glow? Anyone feel like getting a
Pho or a Beef Vindaloo or a Lamb Rogan-Josh, or a Butter Chicken?

Yes she'd be able to answer the question - What have refugees
ever done for us. And she would have a warm glow doing it.

Hi Foxy,

Is Dutton a racist? Is the Pope a Catholic? Same answer. Innate racism and bigotry exists in conservative people by nature, its in their DNA. Conservatism, and Dutton is a conservative no question of that, such people harbour fears within themselves, fear of change, which brings on suspicion of others who are different to them. Conservatives have a class belief in their own superiority over all others, and the belief that only they are the natural rulers within society.

Besides, Palestinians are Muslims, and Dutton has a definite disdain, if not a hatred towards Muslims. Would he be jumping up and down if these people were old white Anglo male Christians, me thinks not!

Duel citizenship should be abolished. It's peoples taking advantage of bad from safe. The safe being used when necessity arises.
They should come here and stay here or not at all.
Remember when Abbott went to England for a homecoming. That sort of mentality does not gell with me.
Dutton is on his knees he has allot of disfunction in his camp. And being a racist has only added to his stress levels. He was not a well liked pick for the liberals for a start. With Scomo's liberalising port folio's to an extent never seen before., is not a good look.

This doesn't make any sense
Foxy,
You don't make any sense. Do you even know what's going on over there & for how long it's been going on ?
Dutton is correct. The whole of the Middle east is Arab & Muslim so ask yourself why the Palestinians want to come to Australia ? Why not just head for any of the arab Countries ?
For crying out loud do some thinking sometimes !

Paul1405,
No need to try so hard to call others racists, we all know that crown belongs to you ! Most refugees in the past jettisoned the hatred when they arrived here. Now, yo are doing your utmost to rekindle it here !

Indy,

The racists is the bloke on learning I had a small amount of Aboriginal blood called me a "CONCRETE JUNGLE BUNNY" that's YOU! Want to deny you wrote that about me? Twist and turn as much as you like, but we know who the racists are!

Dutton and associates like sky news they tend to like everything that is bad in this world. I sincerely hope Dutton never gets to be prime minister of AU. Him and Abbott are two of a kind. We do not want that again surely. Morrison was extremely bad for 9 years.
Dutton continually puts his foot in the wrong places. Surely there is better picks from their ranks. Maybe their all hard right fanatics.
I just do not believe in Dutton being in charge of a chook shed let alone a pig farm.

on learning I had a small amount of Aboriginal blood
Paul1405,
You can't even remember your own BS, you first stated you were part Indian from Mauritius & gradually you became part Aboriginal. Not very original at all !

So, terrorists & potential terrorists are now a Race ?

Yes Indy,

My maternal Great-Great Grandmother was indeed from the island of Mauritius, she was "Creole", being a mix of African her mother and French slave owning father, both women were slaves, my Great Great Grandmother was transported to NSW as a convict. Her daughter, my Great Grandmother married a man who was half Aboriginal and European. Now what else do you want to know, seems genealogy is not your strong point. That makes me 1/16 Aboriginal, my first cousin who also has Aboriginal blood on her fathers side, is a recognised Aboriginal, and accepted tribal member. BUT Cuz unlike YOU gets no government benefit for being Aboriginal, still working in her 70's.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concrete%20jungle%20bunny

The term for urban gangsters and black people that live in cities like New York and Los Angeles.

I believe Woke and Marxists are the biggest racists as they want to destroy all races and make everyone the same especially white people. But Woke Marxism is a threat to everyone and the worlds peoples need to marginalize their toxic ideology.

Isn't it the Woke and Marxists that decry the "sending down system" (that Doog appears to be using to besmirch Dutton) and yet it has been used extensively in Marxist countries in China and Soviet Russia to kill those with a moderately different point view.

Maybe people will be listening to Doog and will make an assassination attempt on Dutton (sounds similar to comments made by Paul1405, not sure about Foxy, but it might be good to parse Foxy's comments for inciting against what Woke/ Marxists consider "FAR RIGHT" or "EXTREMISM" yet within the law). (I can see Doog, Paul1405, Foxy begging Graham Young to remove their content before the AFP produce a subpoena, but there is perhaps little risk due to the bias in the current political/ legal environment).

100 Million people have been killed based on Marxism which seems to have very similar goals to Wokeism even if they deny some of the more extreme genocidal methods of Marxism.

We have seen creeping Woke policies but many are unable to see the links between contemporary Wokeism and Marxist Communism. As an exercise take a woke principle and it's often not hard to find a communist comparison to this woke principle. One principle is "equality of outcome" as opposed to "equality of opportunity".

It seems that Doog and Paul1405 are complicit in a culture of death similar to Marxism because they seem to be promoting similar principles.

Just because someone hypothetically denys Marxism and Communism doesn't mean that they aren't Marxist or Communist when they follow the principles of Marxism and Communism.

We have seen the result of Marxist Communism.

Individual.

You give too much credence to this author. She/it/he originated from a long line of simple peasants in Moldavia stretching back thousands of years.
Their language is barely distinguishable from cow chook pig and geese, the animals they slid around with inside the one room hut on the mud floor they jointly shared were somewhat advanced to the shepherd!

Hi CM & dd,
I can't even remember how I got to use that term. I must have heard or read it in the dim past & when I was confronted by this opportunistic hypocritical git, the term sounded jovial for city dwellers i.e. like rabbits milling around in concrete warrens.
Suddenly, it became racial & aimed at Aborigines which confused the hell out of me because I spent the bulk of my life in indigenous communities & never heard the term there. There are no massive buildings housing anyone & everyone lives in a decent home. I was the one who was shoved into old broken down houses whilst I & others build new homes & general infrastructure for the locals. We hardly ever benefitted from it because as soon as everything was completed we were moved to the next project & a repeat cycle. Many times I wished I could have claimed indigenous status to enjoy similar benefits. Despite being side-lined socially we're still referred to as white racists by those who benefitted the most from our activities.
Our resident Amoeba fits the mould of racist hyprocrite perfectly. My guess is that he/it would fully approve of the several break-ins & thefts we exoerienced.

mhaze...Love it ! Zali could contact the relo's and get a heap of roast (organic of course) chooks dropped off and invite all the nice Hamas sycophant/sympathisers around for a big "welcome to country" barbie in her backyard ! :)

gets no government benefit for being Aboriginal, still working in her 70's.
Paul1405,
Sounds like a straight-out lie to me !

"Pauline Hanson without the personality." has been the
way some have described Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's
comments on banning all refugees from Gaza. Many MPs
have condemned his Gaza visa stance.

The Opposition leader says he refuses to be a "punching
bag" after saying he doesn't believe people fleeing from
Gaza should be allowed into Australia.

I think it's a pity that this has come down to labeling
and name calling of each other. But I guess it is inevitable
with politics. Attempts will continue to be made- to
call each other out - and try to stir. If only our
politicians and commentators
would look at the comments they make that foster fear and
hatred against not only minority groups but each other.
It's an outmoded tactic reminiscent of the days of the
Cold War when words like "racist" "Marxist", "kraut"
"Jap" "commie" and so on were popular and described the
enemy. It's unfortunate that for some this terminology
has lasted even though the Cold War has been over for
over 30 years.

It would be much more productive to look at policies and
see what can be improved in that area instead of resorting
to just name calling and labelling.

The PM and the Home Affairs Minister have said that the
screening process is the same now as it was under the Coalition
government. If Mr Dutton objects to the screening process
and finds it inadequate - he should say so - and suggest an
alternative process instead of a ban.

Individual

Trying to win an argument with this lot is like trying to win a dry Weet Bix eating competition.

This is how it works; build a three bedroom brick veneered house, fill it up with twenty relos and victimhood remains intact: Were in overcrowding unsafe housing now, more please!

I've looked up the meaning of "racism."

According to the Human Rights Commission they say that:

"Racism is the process by which systems, policies, actions,
and attitudes create unequal opportunities and outcomes
for people. It's more than prejudice in thought and action.
It happens when whether individual or institutional is
accompanied by power to discriminate against, oppress, or
limit the rights of others."

Therefore it would appear that setting up barriers, and
bans for refugees coming from Gaza - does amount
to racism.

So according to this definition, racism has nothing to do with race.

Struth....

mhaze,

It's broader than just race. As explained its the process
by which systems, policies, actions, and attitdues create
unequal opportunities and outcomes for people. It can be
based on race, ethnicity, religion, culture, et cetera.

It's also more than prejudice in thought or action - again
as stated earlier - it happens where whether individual or
institutional actions are accompanied by power to discriminate
against, or oppress or limit the rights of others.

I hope this helps you - towards better understanding.

Peter Dutton has escalated the Coalition's rhetoric
against Palestinians fleeing the Gaza war zone claiming
none should be allowed into Australia due to an
unspecified "security risk."

This contradicts the assessment by ASIO Chief - Mike
Burgess.

The Prime Minister explained that "We take our advice
from the director-general of ASIO and the security agencies,
not from someone looking for a fight, or division."

I guess it all depends which view you share.

The PM explained that "We currently have a process where ASIO
vets people, where we have national security checking and -
memo to Mr Dutton - the government is using the same process
he used when in government."

Foxy said "According to the Human Rights Commission they say that: "Racism is the process by which systems, policies, actions,
and attitudes create unequal opportunities and outcomes for people. It's more than prejudice in thought and action. It happens when whether individual or institutional is accompanied by power to discriminate against, oppress, or limit the rights of others.""

Answer- I've thought for some time that the Human Rights Commission is itself biggoted and genocidal when it denies the rights of a people to protect itself from outside forces. Equality of Outcome seems to be a principle that has been around as part of Communism since the 1920-1930's. If the Commissioner of Human Rights is preaching Equality of Outcome I suspect their loyalty to the Australian nation and to the vested interest of those with deep roots. Does the founding descendants of a nation have a right to exist?

Equality of opportunity on the other hand is considered important as part of the concept of rule of law in mass societies.

What we are seeing is a conflict between different rights, the question is which rights should take precedence in different circumstances. I believe that those that created something have more rights than those who didn't. Marxists don't believe in property rights. All Marxist societies have failed to be productive and have destroyed themselves. Sun Tzu said that the military will eventually burn itself out because it is an unproductive kleptocracy- and so is Marxism.

The nation of Australia came into existance with the arrival of the British fleet and they preceded to create the built infrastructure that now exists in Australia, from nothing. Obviously an investment in built infrastructure and the very lives of the transported British requires the existence of some sort of return on investment. At this point Aboriginals can choose to live as a minority in a society of majority British ancestry which has some biased aspects or not. Obviously there was compromises in the past and into the future. Aboriginals have moved from a paleolithic culture to a more advanced one- they need to choose what they want- and how to maintain their internal integrity on that basis. Note that doesn't mean they can force their ideas externally to their culture. In theory a healthy culture can use internal group cohesion to protect itself against the odd external forces they can have their own culturally internal production of resources (food, housing, etc) and trade with other cultures according to their own interest. The superstructure of Australia provides significant support in this regard. Other "native" peoples have territorial reservations to provide a balance. Aboriginals don't own Australia. "Welcome to country" is an offensive concept and threatens the livelihoods of every person that seeks to own their own home. Aboriginals have a crises due to the expansion of their community beyond the Dunbar limit, this is causing it's fragmentation and it's instability, and sadly their culture is being subverted and "diluted" by Woke Marxist ideology. Everyone wants to party but someone has to pay for the party. Once the party is finished will there be anyone left to clean up? Marxism is a race to the bottom, an opium den of the half conscious and dying

For tens of thousands of years people worked all year to grow crops, when winter came they stored what they could based on the preservation technology of the time, they invented and borrowed new technology, many died, but through stoicism over tens of generations they painfully forged principles, life giving but fallible, and tamed their environment.

It will never be perfect, but it's better, some are better than others.

Native people will need to evolve from Stone Age culture through a similar painful process, they will need to borrow principles from other cultures in gratitude for life itself.

Of course Dutton is not a racist, and Steggall is a person of limited wit who used an abusive word instead of argument.

Also of limited wit are the people who think it is a good idea to bring people from Gaza when Muslim Arab countries will not have a bar of them.

And this question is also witless, when the few posters we have on 0LO all know what each other's answers will be. It's all about Marxist sh.t stirring by a bored housewife.

CM,

This seems apropos...
http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1d42f670e7f8ad2ac827890ee814dc76cfd99e511f22e2ffa1e89067d1836150.png

Very good mhaze. Kudos

mhaze,

Talking about apropos?

This also is very appropriate to the situation:

http://theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2024/aug/15/duttons-rhetoric-on-gaza-is-all-too-familiar

Dutton says he is not racist, but finds it hard to find anyone that agrees with him. So i would say he is racist. All Palestinian's are to blame for Dutton's racism. There is no good Palestinian's So what's the best thing to do with Dutton. i say he needs sweeping out of parliament and replace him with a non racist person. This shemozzle needs fixing fast.

I believe that Doog should be swept out first.

Even thinking about bringing Gazans to Australia is another win for Hamas, which already uses Penny Wong's demented criticism of Israel as proof of Labor's anti-Semitismi in their propaganda organ “Quds News”. They get the bilge from her social media. They must also be encouraged by the lunatic ravings of Steggall against Dutton in the Australian Parliament, as well as from the mainstream media and nutjobs on social media. Albanese's ‘no comments’ and I-want-to-go-do-wee wees’ demeanour makes it clear where that nincompoop stands.

The Opposition Leader went to Israel; the Prime Minister did not go to Israel. Even poor old Joe Biden was man enough to go to Israel.

Australia has already trashed its relationship with the only democracy in the Middle East. Bringing in even more of the “f..k the Jews”, Hamas-supporting Gazans will probably make the breach unrepairable. Albanese has completely trashed the Labor Party of Bob Hawke or, he has allowed his incompetent, viciously anti-Israel ministers, headed by the Foreign Minister, to do it for him - the coward.

2,500 visas for Gazans have already been issued. Approvals taking from just 1 hour to 24 hours in a country where Australia has no consul. 70% of Gazans support Hamas. Only an imbecile would think that the wheat could be sorted from the chaff in a war zone, particularly as there is nobody trustworthy enough to do it.

On top of the “refugees”, Australian taxpayers are fully-funding Arab Palestinian students to attend Australian universities. You can bet that their temporary visas will also lead to permanent residence.

These people are not wanted by surrounding Muslim Arab countries, because of the unacceptable risks. But, stupid, stupid Albanese Australia lays out the red carpet, and calls people concerned about their country's safety “racists”.

That'll fix it!

Hi Doog,

With Dutton as leader the Opposition's chances of
re-election aren't good. Just as Labor's wasn't with Shorten.

As for Canem Malum's comment about his belief that you should
be swept out?

Tell CM that only a genius can say these 4 words - 4 times
really fast without getting tongue twisted.

EYE, YAM, STEW, PEED.

___________________________________________________________________

We had ttbn earlier mention a "bored housewife."

Maybe he could send her his ironing so she'd have something
to do. Or if she's having a bit of a quiet day - maybe she
could sculpt him in butter?

___________________________________________________________________

Now back to the subject:

We need to remember that As a signatory to a number of
international treaties and as a party to the Refugee Convention
and other international obligations including being a member of
the United Nations - Australia has agreed to ensure that people
who meet the UN's definition of a refugee are not sent back
to a country or a war zone where their life or freedom would be
threatened.

"No man is an island, entire of itself: every man is a piece of
the continent, a part of the man." These words from 16th
century poet John Donne still resonates in our world today.

All countries need to act together to combat world issues such
as poverty, and human rights abuses. Australia is one of the 195
countries that has a shared signed responsibility to promote
security, health, and well being in the world. Australia is a
member of the UN, an organization set up to promote international
cooperation and world peace.

Membership of the UN presents an avenue for Australia to
fulfill its international obligations.

Hi Foxy,

Our little band of Forum racists are excelling once more, as they whip themselves, and each other, into states of exaltation over who can be the biggest racists! I have to give special mention to Nuremberg Dan he's just beside himself with; "Their language is barely distinguishable from cow chook pig and geese, the animals they slid around with inside the one room hut on the mud floor they jointly shared were somewhat advanced to the shepherd" Indy is his usual self, The Trumpster well, I don't know, thinks he maybe still waiting for his Klan membership to arrive. Kudos Kid spreading love and joy as only he can!

Lets have a good story, I know of a group here in Queensland who take disadvantage kids and others including refugees, out sailing and kayaking (for the not so brave) on Moreton Bay. These folk enjoy a day out with a BBQ/picnic lunch etc. My friend is a true Christian (yes there are a few of them), tells me the joy it brings to both children and adults, people who have had precious little other than misery in their lives, the fun of sailing they enjoy for a few hours is immeasurable. These refugees are not the 'Dutton Terrorists" as some like to make out, but ordinary people craving for a better life for their children and themselves.

I think that poor old Paul has adopted the view that its racist to point out that Dutton's stance isn't racist. It seems that, based on Foxy's definition, racism has nothing to do with race anyway.

As we've seen in so many other instances, calling someone racist is really just the equivalent of asserting that they are saying something you'd prefer left unsaid.

So Dutton is opposed to people from one location who have shown themselves to be uniquely violent from coming here, and rather than argue the point, the usual suspects just scream 'racist' because arguing the point is beyond their capabilities.

Apropos the competing cartoons, it seems the point went sailing over Foxy's head.

I do not like being told i need to be swept out. What sort of comment is that. Does it concern the line of subject to be answered. Some people just can not take an honest comment, that does not suite them. When i comment i really mean it as gospel. I always post factually and realistically.
“Dutton”as in dexta. Not my personal choice as a parliamentarian, trying to force nukes on au citizens is deplorable, not only no real information but factious dire tribe that only fare’s believe in.

Anyone, Dutton, Joe Bloggs, being called called a racist can be assured that they are dealing with a moron.

I wonder if clouds ever look down on us and say:

"Hey look, that one is shaped like an idiot."

____________________________________________________________________

Dear Paul,

I love positive stories. Thank you for sharing yours.

Some people do incredible things to help others.

We have a family friend who's not been able to have children.
So instead of doing nothing - she spends her week-ends
looking after foster-kids. Giving them a taste of family
life. She sometimes gets called up during the week as well.

She loves it. And it gives meaning to her life and those of
the kids. Amazing people do exist.

mhaze,

Missing the point?

You and I can wander whether the glass is half empty or
half full and we'd both be missing the point.

The glass is REFILLABLE.

After his strange appointment of a ‘special envoy on anti-Semitism’, Albanese promised one on Islamophobia, too, pretending an equivalence between anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, but really not wanting to upset Muslims or be seen to favour Jews - as if anyone would ever think he favoured Jews after allowing Wong to preach “restraint” to a country fighting for its very existence, and handing out money to UNRWA.

While he was spoilt for choice in finding a smart and articulate Jew, he hasn't been so lucky with a Muslim.

The ‘Australian’ reports that he hasn't been able to find one who will unequivocally condemn the Hamas atrocities of October 7th.

Not that the Jewish appointee will have much luck, given that she has to report to Minister Tony Burke who, apart from crapping himself over his Muslim constituents, has:

. supported anti-Israel protests that threatened the well-being of Jewish students on university campuses across the country
. quoted Hamas casualty figures as if they were fact
. supported the Canterbury-Bankstown Council’s decision to fly the Palestinian flag right after the October 7 massacre of Israelis

The posturing to protect himself against charges of anti-Semitism and trying to keep in good with the Muslims looks like biting Albanese on the bum.

https://dailydeclaration.org.au/2024/08/19/albanese-social-cohesion-plan

Think about all the things Doog could do if he was swept out. He could learn how to read.

Where are we up to with all this?
Is it time for me to make annother intelligent comment yet?

Dutton says he is not a racist. What proof has been stablished to deny that. It's clear cut. Self denial does not proof of anything. The man is swimming up stream with a forever cloud over himself. It's best to foreclose and move on.

Listen to me Bonger 1405, I speak the truth and the truth hurts. My ancestors were White Russians; Orthodox White Christians, Christianity is in our DNA.

As for the poor peasants I describe, well they was good folk sometimes too and would offer to share their hut with travellers caught in those sudden white blizzards Russia is renowned for, or as an alternative, if you couldn’t stand the putrid stink, it was acceptable to share the nearby haystack with the crows; at the least they’d have a feed on your corpse if you froze to death through the treacherous night!

Must admit though, we had a bad reputation with the Jews. Something to do with the Cossack upbringing I was told. You’d a probably made a good racist Cossack, (if you lived long enough), since your such an Antisemite!

Takes one to know one don’t it now!

Hi Indy,
"So, terrorists & potential terrorists are now a Race ?"
- Yes in England they're called the 'white working class' disgruntled about multiculturalism and immigration.
Those silly poms thought it was THEIR country.
What were they thinking?
Like anything the white working class care about actually matters in a multicultural society...
They're finding out it does not.

In a multicultural society the whites are there to be divided, conquered and exterminated.

It's time for another book burning however, for the opposite grounds this time !

Nuremberg Dan, Nimbin Paul calling...Ground control to space cadet Dan, come in Dan, you're lost in space!

Are you on the vodka, that last post was even more incoherent that you regular diatribes. I prefer a 'Black Russian' myself. You must stop wondering across Siberia in winter, don't you know its bad for the complexion! BTW how is your family of Yaks these days. Unlike our dear friend the forum Trumpster who said his family lived in trees on the island of Borneo, his brothers Orang and Tang are still up there, at least yours are living in mud huts and communicating with the pigs and goats! Hummm no TV ah?

Hi AC,

"the whites are there to be divided, conquered and exterminated" so you to go to the footy on a Saturday afternoon as well! Nothing like a bit of violence and mayhem to kill a couple of hours on a lazy afternoon. I see the Rioting Rascals got the better of the Pussy Police last week, were you at the match up, were you on the winning side?

Multiculturalism is nothing more than genocide of Caucasians ! The main point being that Caucasians aren't permitted to have a victimhood industry !

Kudos Indyvidual. Yes Multiculturalism is Anti-White/ Anglophobia. The ideology of Multiculturalism is mainly promoted in Western and European nations. Every culture needs to protect it's own identity- every race/ ethnicity needs to protect itself and has a right to exist. Those that believe in multiculturalism especially world multiculturalism seem to want to destroy all cultures and force everyone to be the same. This is racist genocide and will over time wipe out all cultures on Earth.

Similar genocidal campaigns occurred under Marxist Communism in the 20th century killing 100 million people in the name of "anti-counter- revolution".

European people have been under threat from the Middle East and Asia in small and large scale attempts at various points in history- ancient conflicts and migrations such as the Slavic, Persian (the Greek 300, Alexander the great, Trojan War), Ottoman's (Constantinople), the Chinese/ Mongolian Golden Horde of the 1200-1300's.

The Golden Horde European campaigns during the time of Venetian- Marco Polo seems to have started Medieval European Colonialism.

"In 1264, Nicolò and Maffio joined up with an embassy sent by the Ilkhan Hulagu to his brother, the Grand Khan Kublai. In 1266, they reached the seat of the Grand Khan in the Mongol capital Khanbaliq (present day Beijing, China). In his book, Il Milione, Marco explains how Kublai officially received the Polos and sent them back—with a Mongol named Koeketei as an ambassador to the pope. They brought with them a letter from the khan requesting educated people to come and teach Christianity and Western customs to his people"

That's not correct, White Anglos are into multiculturalism just like all the others! Here are the Forum Lads at their weekly meeting, I can recognise Nuremberg Dan, The Trumpster, Indy, Kudos Kid, ttbn....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gar-h8VRs28

You might think the above is just for show, no its not, when those "Terrible Terrorist" arrive from Gaza our lads led by Dud Dutton himself, will spring into action sticks and all. Why not, the lads are Australia's last line of defence!

Kudos Kid,

Why don't you move a 1,000 years forward and cut to the chase. It was people like you who believed in white supremacy and the Aryan race that supported those who murdered millions in the name of ethnic cleansing. National Socialism didn't die with a bullet to Hitlers head in 1945.

Multiculturalism promotes ethnic and religious differences at the cost of shared citizenship and civic identity.

Mass immigration is a tool of destruction being used by globalists to gain power.

“On security checks of refugees from Gaza a lot of weight is being put on a handful of sentences uttered by ASIO head Mike Burgess in his recent television interview”. (Peter Jennings, ‘Strategic Analysis Australia).

The boss of ASIO could only mumble “there is a visa process in place” when asked if the current crop of would-be imports were being properly screened.

After the Hamas attacks of October, Australian officials had no opportunity to conduct anything but the most cursory security checks.

ASIO does appear to have seen to only 43 cancelled visas - among nearly 3,000. There would have been a lot more cancelled, or not even considered, if proper measures were in place.

There is substantial support for Hamas in Gaza, and now in Australia, where it shouldn't be an issue at all: nothing to do with us.

Unlike the government, ASIO acknowledges that there is much more anti-Semitism in Australian than there is Islamophobia.

“As in Australia, immigration in the UK has become the political weapon of choice by left-wing thugs who brand all opposition as racism while working in the political silence to replace traditional ideas of virtue and public service with the distorted image of a socialist workers’ collective”.

UK police are being wasted on trawling through social media to find people saying something the extreme-Left Starmer Labour government doesn't like.

How long before Albanese jumps on the idea - if he hasn't already got it under way?

Besides, tyrants in the UK are already inferring that they might be able to extradite foreigners sounding off in countries with weak, globalist governments like Albanese Australia.

I am sorry to see so much negativity coming forward in
this discussion.

Personally I am proud of the fact that our country is a
society that has many different cultures living together.
That so many of us do accept that we are all Australians
regardless of our country or place of birth.

Most of us do respect cultural diversity and a recognition
of the positive value of diversity in itself and how it
enriches our community.

Of course we do need to understand the views of some who
apparently see multiculturalism in a negative way. As
privileging the good of certain groups over the common good.
They see erosion of the common good in favour of minority
interests.

To them it appears that they think national unity is impossible
if people see themselves as members of ethnic or racial groups
rather than as citizens of a common country.

Also there are individuals who feel that diverse cultures within
a society can dilute or erode the dominance of the traditional
or the majority culture. The fear or loss of their cultural
heritage, tradition and values is very real.

These are contentious and sensitive issues without any easy
answers. However, it is good to continue to debate these
issues in a constructive manner.

As far as Mr Dutton's views go? Whether we agree with Mr
Dutton's views or not - having the presence of an opposition
party itself prevents the ruling party from misusing their
power. It forces the ruling power to perform better.

Holding the government to account, to question their
policies and challenge the equity and efficacy through normal
institutional and civic means in parliament and through
news media is not a bad thing. It just may lead to
productive results.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10462#363528

Indyvidual said "I can't even remember how I got to use that term. I must have heard or read it in the dim past & when I was confronted by this opportunistic hypocritical git, the term sounded jovial for city dwellers i.e. like rabbits milling around in concrete warrens".

Answer- I don't think you need to apologize for being alive. Especially to someone like Paul1405. If you don't say anything offensive he will still find something to be offended about. Personally I find Paul1405 very offensive- but every few days I have to clean the toilet too.

Yes I agree that Paul1405 appears to be a bigot.

Perhaps Paul1405 thinks he is enlightened because he doesn't need to imagine Plato's Cave Analogy.

Albanese has the misguided belief that Australia has some duty of care to people from a lawless, terrorist part of the world. He thinks that an Australian commitment to universal human rights overrides his duty to maintain the safety of Australian citizens; that ‘compassion’ for people in a far off land nowhere near Australia, with whom we have nothing in common, has a higher priority than the rights of Australians.

No previous PM has ever tested the patience and public acceptance of mass immigration and soft treatment of illegal aliens as Albanese has.

He must be dealt with at the next election.

Regarding Foxy-

I agree with Foxy that she should be sorry and disappointed in herself for her role in the negativity that has arisen due to accusations of racism. At least she makes slight contrition to Peter Dutton and those whose interests fail to align with Foxy's- in spite of her doctrinaire propaganda in opposition to these interests.

ttbn-

Yes it appears that the different priorities imposed on ASIO mean that they can only reject Palestinian's based on evidence of criminal, terrorist, or anti-Australian behavior, rather than evidence of positive support of Australian loyalty. Once again our institutions appear to have been compromised by politics. Anyway something will break sooner or later and someone will lose their heads, maybe literally in this case.

Paul1405 said "That's not correct, White Anglos are into multiculturalism just like all the others".

Answer- So Paul1405 has changed his opinion from "multiculturalism is right", to "White people support multiculturalism".

I've always argued that multiculturalism doesn't seem to be in the interest of White people. If it isn't in the interest of white people then why don't we hear from them? Or according to Paul1405's assertion "White people support multiculturalism". Well there could be a few reasons. Maybe they have been influenced by biased information. Maybe they haven't been influenced by the biased information but they are afraid of voicing their opinion. There has been much effort put into corporate diversity (DIE) programs since the sixties- if diversity is accepted why are the corporate diversity programs necessary?

Corporates and other special interest groups gain advantage by promoting diversity even if society doesn't. Marxist's seemingly use principle "capitalists will sell you the rope to hang them with" that prioritizes money to achieve Marxist goals by creating a market structure that achieves this goal. Governments purchase from companies that support diversity internally/ suppliers then this creates positive pressure for diversity independent of society's support mandate. Liberal Democratic Political Philosophy sees laws created without societies support as invalid.

Peter Dutton says he is not a racist.

Andrew Bolt says those screaming "racist" at Peter
Dutton are scoundrels.

Greg Sheridan tells us that Peter Dutton is not remotely
racist.

Bridget McKenzie says that the back lash against Dutton
will only stir up hatred and violence. That Peter Dutton is
not a racist.

Zali Steggall thinks he is.

Bernard Keane tell us that:

"Peter Dutton, has no record of race-based language.
Well, except when it comes to Africans. And Lebanese Muslims.
And China. And South Africa. And Palestine.
But apart from that, nothing."

And racism for white people as we know is not longer a big
issue. We have formally abandoned the White Australia policy.
We have legislation like the Race Discrimination Act. It's
illegal to segregate people based on their skin colour and
overt racism is thought to be socially unacceptable.

Look at the progress we've made.. In 2018, the Australian
Human Rights Commission found of those who occupy 2,490
of the most senior positions in Australia only 76% have an
Anglo-Celtic background. Only 19% have a European background.
And the numbers have risen for people from a non-European
background to 5% and 0.4% for our Indigenous background
people.

So it is easy for white people to assume racism is no
longer a big issue. For them it isn't. I'm sure we can all
agree.

Here's an appropriate link to the situation:

http://echo.net.au/2024/07/can-peter-dutton-win-the-next-election/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hwkhM041ig&t=12s&pp=ygUQaXNsYW0gaW4gdWsgMjAyNA%3D%3D
Same subject, different country !

One of Murdoch's men;

"Foxtel CEO Patrick Delany today met with David Ossip, President of the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies, and issued a “full and unreserved apology” after a photo surfaced showing Delany performing a Nazi salute."

Hi Foxy,

Good link from the Australian Human rights Commission on the basic question of; "Why are people racists?" Truthfully we are all prejudices to some degree, and tend to both prejudge and stereotype people without actually getting to know them first. Differences breeds suspicion about others, their beliefs, practices and intent. Dutton is a clear example of a person with strong prejudicial views about others, in this case Palestinian refugees, I'm sure there is also a good measure of the political animal in Dutton's call to ban people from Gaza entering Australia, he sees them as a presented opportunity to be used to gain political advantage over the government, and be damned with the consequences. I would have expected this Dutton type outburst from the likes of the known racists Pauline Hanson, and not someone aspiring to lead the country after the next election.

http://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/education/why-are-people-racist

.

Should we accept Palestinians in Australia for humanitarian reasons ?

.

It depends on who we are, what we stand for, and what are values are.

Australia is a modern democracy. We are a multicultural country. We are a secular country that guarantees freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

The Golden Rule in Australia is that everyone should have a Fair Go – that means equal opportunity, treated equally – “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

If that’s what we are, what we stand for, and what are values are, we should have no trouble answering the question.

And if we happen to be Christians, Jesus makes it very clear to us :

Luke 10:30-34

30: Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31: A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32: So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33: But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34: He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
.

A Samaritan is a Palestinian from Samaria, the central region of ancient Palestine.

So, maybe it’s our turn to give a helping hand to some of those Palestinians in need today.

http://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2011-10-0010-parable-of-the-good-samaritan?lang=eng

.

"It depends on who we are, what we stand for, and what are values are".

NO. It depends on what THEY are and what THEY stand for, and what THEIR values are.

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your post and link. It made my morning so much
brighter. Positive and respectful comments tend to do that.

Dear Banjo,

What a beautiful post. I love your reference to the
Good Samaritan. As always - you have the capacity of putting
things so well.

Thank you.

We can't keep blaming others for our own behaviour.

It is a matter of our own values and what we believe in.

To argue about who is racist and who is not is nothing more than
avoiding the main issue.
The issue IS could Amas have slipped one or two of their operatives
into the group coming to Australia.
By putting on a song and dance about them fleeing the trouble in
Gaza is only a distraction.
How will you feel if a couple of them kill ten or twenty people at
an AFL match or blow up a part of Sydney Opera House with part of
the public in the building.
Will you say, well its all the Israelis fault and calm your guilt feelings ?
No, it will be the fault of those that did not detect them.
But whose fault would that be ?

The Golden Rule in Australia is that everyone should have a Fair Go
Banjo Paterson,
A fair go is when you help someone to get back from a dose of bad luck. A fair go is not when your good will is opportunistically exploited with the goal to out-breed you !
This plan is available in book form !

"I am sorry to see so much negativity coming forward in
this discussion."

It takes a significant amount of ego-centricity to assume and/or assert that anyone who disagrees with you is being negative.

You might want to live in a fairyland world where every immigrant is going to be a model citizen who contributes mightily to the nation, but others live in the real world where at least some of those immigrants are going to be problematic.

That's not being negative. Its being realistic. You should try it one day.

Disagreeing with up-themselves people is not negative: it's just the expression of an opinion different from the one that the up-herself/himself person thinks everyone should agree with.

Further, it is a total waste of time arguing with people whose values are not the same as your own. It's a waste of time for conservatives to argue with socialists; their values are just too different; and never the twain shall meet.

This is a good place for anyone to express his/her opinion. But, I've watched people arguing the toss pretty much since OLO came into being: and it is just a silly now as it was at the beginning.

I haven't changed my opinions or values; neither have all other posters who have been here for as long as I have.

Arguing with people whom you know are not going to change their thinking any more than you are is a form of insanity.

Frankly, I don't give a stuff about opinions that differ from mine, and it's quite OK for others to feel the same. At my age, I don't feel the need to argue with idiots and the ignorant, many of whom have not seen or experienced what I have; nor have they had it taught to them by a bunch of Commie teachers.

In my opinion, it would be a good idea if we all expressed our opinions on topics and left others to do the same without commenting on those opinions whether you like them or not. You aren't going to change anyone's minds, even if you have God-like delusions, as a few of you seem to have.

Here's an explainer on Australian immigration and asylum:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/21/the-opposition-says-australias-approach-to-refugees-is-too-generous-who-is-actually-being-let-in

My apologies.

Here's the link again:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/21/the-opposition-says-australias-approach-to-refugees-from-gaza-is-too-generous-who-is-actually-being-let-in

the central region of ancient Palestine.
Banjo Paterson,
It was only recently that I saw a map showing this land as Judea & Samaria. The word Palestine was nowhere to be seen.

Applying the Dutton logic, about 1 in 60 Australians will commit a serious enough crime in their lifetime to warrant incarceration, very bad karma. With over 300,000 births per year, should we not bop 5,000 babies on the head at birth to reduce the future crime rate? Pete thinks its a good idea!

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« … I don't give a stuff about opinions that differ from mine, and it's quite OK for others to feel the same. »

Well said, ttbn ! . I think we all agree on that. Who could ask for more ?

Maybe some come here to proselytize their beliefs and convictions, but I think it is true to say that many, if not most, simply want to express their ideas and exchange with others.

The object of discussion is not so much to agree or disagree but to see things in a different light, gain a broader view and, hopefully, a better understanding of issues of common interest.

As you say, “Disagreeing with … people is not negative …”. Seeing things from a different perspective can be quite enlightening.

Unfortunately, some can't disagree without being disagreeable. It seems to be beyond them !

“The Confessions” of Jean-Jacques Rousseau come to mind :

Book 1 [1712-1728]

I will present myself, whenever the last trumpet shall sound, before the Sovereign Judge with this book in my hand, and loudly proclaim, « Thus have I acted; these were my thoughts; such was I. With equal freedom and veracity have I related what was laudable or wicked, I have concealed no crimes, added no virtues; and if I have sometimes introduced superfluous ornament, it was merely to occupy a void occasioned by defect of memory: I may have supposed that certain, which I only knew to be probable, but have never asserted as truth, a conscious falsehood. Such as I was, I have declared myself; sometimes vile and despicable, at others, virtuous, generous, and sublime; even as Thou hast read my inmost soul: Power Eternal! assemble round Thy throne an innumerable throng of my fellow-mortals, let them listen to my confessions, let them blush at my depravity, let them tremble at my sufferings; let each in his turn expose with equal sincerity the failings, the wanderings of his heart, and if he dare, aver, I was better than that man. »

.

.

Dear Indyvidual,

.

You wrote :

« It was only recently that I saw a map showing this land as Judea & Samaria. The word Palestine was nowhere to be seen »
.

This brief note and map in the Encyclopædia Britannica should help, Indyvidual :

http://www.britannica.com/place/Samaria-historical-region-Palestine

.

Hi ttbn,
"...it is a total waste of time arguing with people whose values are not the same as your own. It's a waste of time for conservatives to argue with socialists; their values are just too different"

Well that means democracy is a waste of time too if all the left will ever do is disagree with the right and vice-versa.

No-one will ever get what they want.
Not one side or the other, it's a recipe where everyone's a loser.

Lose-lose, not win-win.
Because unity is an impossibility, democracy is now just a downward spiral, a race to the bottom.

Well said AC,

That's why in politics the art of compromise is a great asset. Governments do it all the time,they are swayed by both public opinion and necessity, sometimes referred to as pragmatism.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/455630607014984

Is that what the Woke aspire to ?

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier. This is a contentious
and sensitive issue without any easy answers. But it
is good to continue to debate these issues in a
constructive and productive way.

We also need to remember that Australia is a signatory to
a number of international treaties and as a party to the
Refugee Convention and other international obligations
including being a member of the United Nations - Australia
has agreed to ensure that people who meet the UN's definition
of a refugee are not sent back to a country or a War Zone
where their life or freedom would be threatened.

We should also be aware of who is actually being let in -
and the vetting processes that are being used. This may help
to re-assure - and get rid of the misinformation and fear.

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/21/the-opposition-says-australias-approach-to-refugees-from-gaza-is-too-generous-who-is-actually-being-let-in

AC

You comment is worth a bit of my time because you are so wrong. Not arguing with dingbats does not mean what you say about democracy.

Most people don't argue with others on OLO or social media: they know it's a waste of time, and they have lives to live.

What they do is make up their own minds, without nutjobs, and they go off to vote every 3 or 4 years. That's democracy. Voting is the average person's only tool.

And, after most elections, I am always surprised by just how smart the 'silent majority' is. It got rid of a crap government last time - gave Labor another chance - and I think they will do the same thing next time, with Dutton now looking to be the sort of leader that the Liberal Party hasn't had since John Howard.

If you think it's worth arguing with wackjobs, go for it. But people other than the handful here will be making the decisions at the coming election.

It's easy to judge.

It's more difficult to try to understand.

Understanding requires compassion.

We can see from what's happening around the world today
that as Prof. Ilan Pappe writes:

"History lies at the core of every conflict. A true and
unbiased understanding of the past offers the possibility
of peace. The distortion or manipulation of history, in
contrast will only sow disaster. As the example of the
Israeli-Palestine conflict shows."

"Historical disinformation, even of the most recent past,
can do tremendous harm. This wilful misunderstanding of
of history can promote oppression and protect a regime of
colonization and occupation."

"It is not surprising , therefore, that policies of
disinformation and distortion continue to the present and
play an important part in perpetuating the conflict,
leaving very little hope for the future."

"Constructed fallacies about the past and the present in
Israel and Palestine hinder us from understanding the
origins of the conflict . Meanwhile, the constant
manipulation of the relevant facts works against the
interests of all those victimized by the ongoing
bloodshed and violence."

Understanding requires compassion and a willingness to
believe that good people on both sides sometimes choose
poor methods. Through judging we separate. Through
understanding, we grow.

Let us open up our hearts to try to understand.

I recently saw a t-shirt that I think is appropriate
here:

It had written on the front:

I WOULD NEVER
HURT AN ANIMAL
"I'm more of a people person."

Former department of immigration deputy secretary, Abdul Rizi, has called the absurd and dangerous tourist visas for 3,000 Gazas (10 times the number of any other Western country, and 3,000 times the the number of Muslim countries) “politically driven and almost certainly undertaken against departmental advice.

I wonder if the excitable Ms. Steggall would call Abdul a “racist”. We saw him on TV when he was in the job, and afterwards; he is certainly not one of the only people that can be “racist” according to Steggall, et al.

"Understanding requires compassion."

Why? Why is that the case?

I understand the reasons behind the rise of the Nazis. I have no compassion for it.

I understand the reasons for the Holodomor. I have no compassion for it.

I understand why Gazans would prefer to live here rather than Gaza or Jordon or Iran. I have no compassion for it.

"Understanding requires compassion" is just something some say to try to boost their own view that people who don't agree with them lack compassion. Its not true and shows a lack of understanding.

OTOH saying something like "History lies at the core of every conflict" is just bonkers. Its like saying the rotation of the earth is behind every sunrise. True and completely beside the point and just something someone says to try to sound erudite.

Australia, or for that matter the rest of the western world, has no moral or political obligation to take these people in. Let them go to the West Bank or Jordon or Saudi Arabia or Qatar (which already houses most of their leaders) or Iran which has financed their military for decades. If their own kind and supporters won't offer them a home, why are we required to?

Or better still, decide to make Gaza liveable. Surrender to the IDF, and then promise to work toward making Gaza the paradise it could have been had they taken the monumental level of funding they received from the west and used it for economic gain rather than turned it into rockets aimed as Israel. Beg the west for a second chance and this time make sure their leaders work to improve the lives of the Gazans rather than fulfill their anti-Jewish dreams.

Hell, I'd show the requisite level of compassion and contribute to that.

AC

As someone who seems to enjoy arguing, you might not be aware that very few people change their minds, opinions and attitudes once they are formed. Some 'experts' say that 5-7 years of age is the most impressionable period - which is why tyrannical governments like to get them early (child "care" centres, e.g).

I don't know enough to comment on that. But the human brain is not fully developed until the age 25 years, and 27 years is the age where other 'experts' say it's all over.

Further, people under 50 years of age are deemed to be a waste of space, thanks to the changes that took place in education and brainwashing in the 60s.

Whatever the truth is, you have proof here, on OLO, that some people anyway never change their minds. So, there is no good reason to argue with them. Unless, of course, you enjoy it. It will make no difference, though.

Support your side, vote wisely, and hope for the best. There are about 18 million other Australians doing that without the help of online keyboard warriors.

Humans operate on different frequencies. If someone
disagrees with us - it's not necessarily because they're
wrong and we're right. It's because they believe in
something that we don't believe.

Most of us live in a perpetual echo chamber. We tend to
befriend people like us. We tend to read news and media
outlets that are on the same political frequency as us.
And this means that our opinions are probably not being
tested nearly as much as they should.

That's why expert opinions help.

They give us an opportunity to take
a fresh look at issues through the eyes of people who
know them best. Each issue usually has an explanation
as well as recommendations for how to improve and fix
issues. Experts usually - provide a path forward to
improvement. It isn't enough to tell us something isn't
working.

It's also helpful to try not to belittle the other person.
To not ostracize or ridicule them. Although this may be
hard to avoid - given the circumstances. However, we
should remember that this has a counter-productive effect
of activating the other person's defences and solidifies
their position. The moment you belittle - you've lost
the battle.

I find it helpful to read expert opinions of people who
are on the front-line of issues who promote ideas and
guidelines based on best practice from experts in their
relevant fields. As stated experts provide a path
forward to improvement. That of course is a personal
and a subjective view.

I enjoy OLO - because of the variety of views expressed.
I may not agree with many of the views. However I have
been made from time to time - to try to see things
from different perspectives.

If we all agreed - this forum would not be as interesting as
it currently is.

Foxy,
Can you be honest ? Would you prefer to live in an unworkable democracy or under Sharia ?
I believe that Democracy could benefit from a very minor slice of Sharia.
Even better would be the ten Commandments as part of Democratic Law. The Woke certainly need to become a thing of the past asap ! Merit based remuneration would sort this out instantly !

on learning I had a small amount of Aboriginal blood called me a "CONCRETE JUNGLE BUNNY"
Paul1405,
I only just read your quip again & it only just hit me that I never called "you" that. I referred to people living in city high rise concrete warrens. It was you who decided rather opportunistically that I targeted you. You called yourself a CJB !

That's okay Indy, with the passing of time you can attempt to cloud what you said, feel free to lie to justify your racism. YOU never mentioned CONCRETE JUNGLE BUNNY in relation to "people" living in city high rise, YOU directed it at me after I disclosed I live in a city, and I have a fraction of Aboriginal blood, but whatever you say, I and others know the truth.

ttbn,

The idea that people's attitudes are set in stone after the age of seven isn’t true. People can change their opinions at all stages of life as they experience new things and learn - particularly those who score high in openness. You’ve also overlooked genetic influences in opinion forming, too.

Your point about so-called “tyrannical” governments using care centres for the young to indoctrinate is a baseless conspiracy theory, unless you consider playing in sandpits or with wooden blocks indoctrination.

That brain development is "over" at age 27 isn’t entirely true. Clearly you are talking from your own personal experience only. For most of us, learning and cognitive growth still continue throughout life as the brain continues to make new connections and adapts to new circumstances.

To say that anyone under 50 is obviously wrong. Given the subtle point you’re trying to make there, you could have just said 46 - but then that probably wouldn’t have been so subtle, would it? It would be more accurate to say that the experiences of the oldest generation are no longer relevant to today's world now that we know so much more, but even that’s unfair.

Ironically, critical thinking has become central to Western education systems since the ‘60’s. So, your point there is baseless and sounds petulant.

Your defeatist claim that debate is a waste of time because just because a few, like yourself, are unwilling to change their minds dismisses the importance of discourse. You may be intransigent in your opinions, but many others are willing to modify theirs when presented with evidence.

I and others know the truth.
Paul1405,
No, you don't & you wouldn't know if it fell on top of you. None of what you replied contains any truth. Integrity is a foreign word for you. Hypocrisy is what keeps you going ! Racism is your DNA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgozmt7aGs

.

Judging from his posts, ttbn appears to be more inclined to favour some form of authoritarian rule rather than the freedom (seen as laxity) generally associated with democracy.

He now draws a parallel between the various stages of an individual’s human brain development (that ceases prior to age 30), and the fossilisation of individual opinion.

How people form their opinions and decide that they “know” versus what they “think”, “believe” or “doubt” that something is true, is a field of research known by specialists as epistemic cognition.

Epistemic cognition ranges from absolutist thinking, the belief that only one claim can be right, to multiplist thinking, that more than one claim could be right, to evaluativist thinking, that assertions can be evaluated in terms of both logic and evidence.

Under that definition, ttbn would clearly classify as an “absolutist thinker” without the slightest shadow of a doubt.

In 2023, a team of researchers studied the way different generations in Romania determined the truth of information following the country’s transition from an authoritarian communist regime to a democracy.

Not surprisingly, they found that those who were born and raised after the transition, were more likely than those who were born before the transition, to compare and evaluate different perspectives before deciding who or what was right.

The researchers added that they believed their findings could also help explain why unfettered access to information, social media and a plethora of personal opinions sometimes lead in the opposite direction — toward absolutist thinking and authoritarian politics.

They noted that “along with the rise of the internet and social media, there has been, in the United States, a rise in the importance of personal opinion, along with a decline in the importance of agreed-upon facts”.

And while the trend toward increasing sources of information and opinions in Romania has been associated with the democratisation and opening up of society, in the U.S., the indiscriminate application of the principle that everyone has a right to their own opinion has led to information silos and absolutist thinking.

Quid, then, the future of US democracy ?

.

My impression is of yet another example of cult leader Albo treating democracy as an inconvenience, something to be sidestepped.

On this latest occasion the intention seems to have been to keep secret the granting of a few thousand tourist visas to Gaza residents. Albo has been reinforcing this view by steadfastly refusing to address questions on the matter in federal parliament.

Dutton is being criticised as lacking humanity, but why then wasn't the granting of visas openly promoted to Australian's as a humanitarian act and endorsing the virtue of Labor over the coalition? Instead, it has been kept hidden.

Hiding such matters shows a contempt for democratic process upon which the Australian nation was founded. People do not deserve to be treated like mushrooms, which is just how cult leader Albo is treating them with an ongoing refusal to answer questions. Albo is a grub.

Not so Fester, the government announced that there would be a limited number of visa's granted to both Israelis and Palestinians some time ago. What the Noalition is banging on about is trying to link all Palestinians to Hamas implying they must be "terrorists". Disgusting behaviour for political advantage. Dutton would sell a loyal supporter like you down the river if he thought it would win him a couple of votes.

A simple question: “Why would we be considered racist for refusing to take people that Muslim nations refuse to take?”

. It’s not racist to insist that our refugee program assists rather than damages social cohesion.

. It’s not racist to insist that our refugee program targets those in need whose values most closely align with our own.

. It’s not racist to insist that the safety of the Australian community must not be compromised by our refugee program.

. And it’s not racist to insist that where proper security checks cannot be done, people should not be admitted.

Corinthians 11:19 - No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.

Not much help to non-believers, of course.

All of the rubbish being preached by the Albanese government and its useful idiots about “compassion” for Gazans who might be a threat to Australia, always comes back to anti-Semitism: mindless siding with people who hate Jews and Israel.

Historian Mervyn Bendle recognises that, “incredible as it may seem”, it is no longer possible to ignore the growing parallels between anti-Semitism in Australia and the rest of the West with that which occurred in Germany and Europe, leading to the Holocaust.

An organised “coalition of Progressivist and Islamist forces wishes the greatest possible harm upon not only Israel but the Jewish diaspora as a whole”: especially in a multicultural society like Australia which has “has imported entrenched anti-Semitism”.

. sections of the political elite and civil society, including academia, the education system, the media and the arts have been captured by these forces

. federal and state governments are seeking to withdraw or render incapable all relevant levels of protection for Australian Jews

A deliberate anti-Semitic policy has “already been implemented” by NSW and VIC police forces by refusing to apply laws relating to hate speech and anti-Semitic demonstrations.

The AHRC has also “remained deliberately inactive in the face of clear violations of human rights suffered by our Jewish citizens”.

I'm tiring of all this fake compassion for Palestine. If people were really so concerned why don't they go to Gaza & help them secure that territory & make it peaceful & prosper instead of causing mayhem here ? The Palestinians wouldn't be refugees needing to come to Australia. If they despise the Jews that much why don't they go there & help fight them ?
Is it because they're all cowardly hypocrites who'd rather see this Nation go under & for what ? If only being stupid could physically hurt these stupid instead of hurting us socially ?

" Hello, I'm Miriam Margolyes, and I wanted to say
something in support of the Jewish Council of Australia.
I am an Australian citizen. I'm 83 and I have never
been so ashamed of Israel as I am at this moment. To me
it seems as if Hitler has won."

" He's changed us Jews from being compassionate and
caring and do unto others as you would have them do
unto you, into a vicious, genocidal, nationalist nation
pursuing and killing women and children."

"Of course I condemn tha Hamas action, of course I do.
But what we are doing, Jewish people over in Israel, is
shocking, embarrassing, and wicked and I cannot understand
why all Jewish people particularly members of synagogues do
not want to stop immediately what is going on."

"And in the name of humanity, I call upon all Jews to shout,
beg, scream, for a ceasefire."

" It's not antisemitic to have a different opinion on the
wartime action now. We have to do, as my mother used to say,
the right thing: the right thing is a ceasefire to stop the
killing certainly to beg and insist on the release of hostages.
But there is an opinion about Israel's actions which is not
antisemitic to voice. What Israel is doing is wrong. It is
wicked."

"And if you want to say this, is very bad for Israel, please
call on your rabbis, on your communities, on all the people
you know. Voice your disgust and detestation of the Israeli
actions. Please, you are then doing the right thing and
behaving in accordance to the Jewish tradition."

"Thank you."

There are so many Jews who agree with Miriam world wide and
including many who are protesting in Israel.

http://theguardian.com/film/2024/apr/09/miriam-margolyes-condemns-israels-policy-in-gaza-calling-on-jews-to-shout-beg-scream-for-a-ceasefire

Easy for Margoylese to say, she doesn't live there !

Indyvidual,

She's Jewish and has visited Israel and seen with her
own eyes how the Palestinian people were treated. She
highly recommends visiting the occupied territories
and see for yourself.

_____________________________________________________________________

Now back to the topic:

Amnesty International says:

"The Australian government's rejection of over 7,000 Palestinians
fleeing Israel's relentless assault on Gaza is a shocking
abdication of its legal and moral obligations to provide safety
to those in crisis. Despite the catastrophic toll on Gaza's
population, the government's response remains inadequate."

"For more than 2 million Palestinians there's nowhere to go.
The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA)
estimates 75% of the population of Gaza are displaced yet
Australia has failed to offer them adequate humanitarian
protection."

"The International Court of Justice has recognized the grave
risk of genocide faced by Palestinians in Gaza exacerbated by
Israel's siege on Gaza and the blockade of essential aid."

"In contrast Canada has announced the expansion of its visa
cap."

"News of the mass visa rejections coincide with Peter Dutton's
dangerous call to deny all Palestinians entry to Australia,
escalating anti-Palestinian rhetoric and influencing harmful
policy decisions. "

We're told that - "Australia must step up and fulfill its
obligations to those in desperate need."

There's more at the following:

http://amnesty.org.au/gaza-mass-visa-rejections-for-palestinians-an-abrogation-of-australias-responsibility-in-humanitarian-crises/

Just a bit more information from the link given earlier:

" Since the 7th October 2023, Israel has killed 40,000
Palestinians including 14,000 children with 92,000
injured and thousands buried under rubble. 1.7 million
Palestinians endure relentless bombardment, displacement,
and starvation used as a weapon of war."

"Israel has continued to flagrantly violate international
law resulting in civilians fleeing a humanitarian catastrophe
unlike anything we have seen in recent history."

" Despite the severity of this crisis, Palestinians are
offered only tourist visas, leaving them without rights and
entirely dependent on their families or communities until they
apply for a Bridging Visa E. Many of these
visas are due to expire which causes increased distress and
anxiety within the communities who are seeking permanent
protection for their family."

"According to the Department of Home Affairs over 7,000 visas
have been rejected and only 2,922 visas approved. Of those only
1,300 of women, men, and children have safely arrived in
Australia."

And of course Australia continues to support Israel - who
continues to claim victimhood status and considers any
criticism of its policies as being antisemitic.

"There are so many Jews who agree with Miriam world wide and
including many who are protesting in Israel."

Yes there are...world-wide.

But the ones actually in Israel, the ones attacked on 7/10, the ones who had to abandon house and home in Northern Israel because of rockets coming from Lebanon, the ones who live constantly in the knowledge that, given the chance their enemies would, and want to, wipe them from the face of the earth....those ones who don't have the luxury of pontificating from afar, they are overwhelming supportive of ensuring 7/10 never happens again.

http://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

(73% of Israelis say Israel’s military response against Hamas in Gaza has been about right, and/or not gone far enough) (and that includes Arab-Israelis).

__________________________________________________________________

"Amnesty International says:"

By all means, let's listen to what Amnesty tells us we are obligated to do!!

You know, I searched in vain for articles where Amnesty told Jordan what it should do give refuge to Gazans .

I searched in vain for articles where Amnesty told Qatar what it should do give refuge to Gazans.

I searched in vain for articles where Amnesty told Egypt what it should do give refuge to Gazans.

Or Saudi Arabia. Or Iran. Or Russia. Or other Mohammedan nations. What's Indonesia doing? What's Pakistan doing? Afghanistan? Malaysia?

Nope, it seems that Amnesty thinks only western nations have an obligation to help Gazans escape the chaos they themselves created.

Foxy,

Thanks for the link. I would love to agree wholeheartedly with Miriam Margolyes there, but can’t bring myself to. The issue is way more complex than how she portrays it.

The result of Israel’s actions in Gaza are tragic, but they are a response to an existential threat posed by Hamas, who openly call for Israel's destruction and engage in acts of terrorism targeting Israeli civilians.

The loss of civilian life is an unfortunate but inevitable consequence of warfare, especially when combatants deliberately embed themselves within the civilian population as Hamas do.

Her comparison of Israel's actions to those of Nazi Germany (by reference to Hitler) is inappropriate and historically inaccurate. Her comparison trivialises the Holocaust and only serves to demonise.

Without addressing their security concerns first, a ceasefire would leave Israel vulnerable to further attacks. If Hamas were to stop attacking Israel, disarm, and quit using civilian areas for military purposes, it would remove Israel's justification for military action.

The ball is in Hamas’s court.

You know there's another reason why Gazans, particularly the female Gazans, might want to get the hell outta there ... to escape the tender mercies of the UN agencies.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2024/07/un-report-warns-of-looming-epidemic-of.html

http://psea.interagencystandingcommittee.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/OPT%20Risk%20Identification%20Report.pdf

Rape and sexual exploitation by the UN and other aid agencies of vulnerable Gazan mothers and girls.

By all means, let's ask these aid agencies and the UN about the moral response to the problem!! </sarc>

Hi John Daysh,

Prof. Ilan Pappe points out that:

"Colonized people even under the United Nations Charter
have the right to struggle for their liberation, even
with an army, and the successful ending to such a struggle
lies in the creation of a democratic state that includes
all of its inhabitants."

A discussion of the future with both sides being willing to
make concessions would help to bring peace to Israel and
Palestine. Unfortunately neither side appears to be
willing to make any concessions - and the future looks bleak.

For Australia - the choice of how it will fulfill its
international obligations towards accepting Palestinian
refugees remains a controversial and sensitive issue that
it will have to deal with. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

The crisis is severe. And can't be ignored much longer.

Jews/Israelis have their left wing twits also. And the Left wing Guardian is more than happy to publish their comments. So what! What a foul-mouthed old lesbian woman thinks is neither here nor there. We have our own Lefty Israeli on OLO.

It appears that any deal between Israel and Hamas will
unfortunately be difficult. Both keep circling the
same issues. Israel saying the war will only end with the
destruction of Hamas as a military and political force.

While Hamas wants a permanent ceasefire and Israel's
military and political presence out of Gaza - especially
along the border with Egypt. They want the free passage of
Palestinians inside the territory.

Hamas accuses Washington of favouring Israel. The list
goes on of the demands that each side wants.

It's a situation that at present appears to be a very complex
one with no immediate resolution. Neither side appears ready to
make any concessions.

For us living outside the region it is difficult to clarify
and understand some of the misunderstandings
at the heart of the Israel-Palestine problem.
Both in the past and the present.

For many, inherited assumptions are not questioned. They provide
an immunity shield for inhuman behaviour. Setting the historical
record straight might have an impact on peace negotiations.
One can only hope. Australia however could look at helping
Palestinians. Our vetting system is on record as being thorough.
As are our security agencies. We could do more to fulfill our
signatory obligations. What we've done to date has been relatively
small compared to Canada and other countries.

Oh Dear, I have gone through many of the posts on this thread and it
seems to me that all those keystrokes are wasted.
No real cease fire is possible, except for a brief one to give temporary
relief for a coincidence of need.
Looks like Israel must decide that without proof of life that all the
hostages are dead.
No agreement is possible, so just let them get on with it.
The demand that Israel stand down is meaningless unless Hamas agrees
to the same but they have vowed to do it again & again.
All the non combatents could be allowed over the border and just leave
both armies in place to slug it out.
Depressing isn't it ?

“Asio has been transformed from a silent and neutral body divorced from politics into an organisation all too ready to take part in the political debate and allowed itself to be used to provide ammunition for the benefit of either side of politics”, according to former minister in charge of ASIO, Neil Brown

Asio and Burgess have now become active participants in the debate over admitting refugees from Gaza into Australia.

Burgess “pops up like a media star”, giving us the benefit of his opinion.

Albanese tried to defend his indefensible position on refugees from Gaza brazenly saying hat Burgess agreed with him, then deceitfully misquoting him.

Burgess’s claim that security checks on Cazans are adequate is “nonsense”. There have been no manual checks (all done online). And Burgess claims that support for Hamas shouldn’t block Gazans from getting visas, if that hadn't taken part in terrorist acts!

“ … respect (for ASIO) is now being eroded; it should be stopped before more damage is done".

How futile all this is. Go there & do your thing for the party you support & be done with it. Stop dragging all this mindless crap to our shores. You achieve only an escalation of stupidity !
The more Palestinians run away, the easier it'll be for the Israelis to gain control. If the Palestinians don't have the will to fight for their own country then so be it, just stop coming here & creating the same idiotic mess.
Either you believe in your cause or you don't, you either stay & fight or leave & stop causing problems elsewhere !

Paul,

"Not so Fester, the government announced that there would be a limited number of visa's granted to both Israelis and Palestinians some time ago. What the Noalition is banging on about is trying to link all Palestinians to Hamas implying they must be "terrorists". Disgusting behaviour for political advantage."

So why all the lying and obfuscation in parliament by Albo? Why is he not open and proud about what he stands for? Albo is a grub and his leadership has been disastrous for Australians if you don't count those on the take with generous public subsidies for doing nation building things like clubbing koalas.

.

Some helpful facts :

.

According to a Palestinian public opinion poll, 71% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza supported the Hamas attack on Oct. 7. Many see it as a triumph of resistance to Israeli oppression. But only 1 in 5 Palestinians surveyed in the poll said they saw videos showing what Israelis endured the day of the Hamas assault.

Hamas and Israel each see themselves as the victim and the other as the aggressor.

After 2,000 years without a home, Israel was created for the Jewish people in Palestine in 1948.

In 1947, the UN General Assembly voted on a plan to create two states. The Arab state with a territory of 11,100 km or 42%, the Jewish state with a territory of 14,100 km or 56%, while the remaining 2%—comprising the cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem and the adjoining area—would become an international zone.

The Jews accepted the plan, but the Arabs rejected it. It was obviously unfair. The Arab population was twice the size of the Jewish population, and they owned most of the land. The Jews only owned 6-7% of it.

War broke out and more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs – about half the Palestinian Arab population at the time – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Zionist paramilitaries, and later by the Israeli army following the establishment of the state of Israel.

The expulsion and flight of the Palestinian Arabs is known as the Nakba. Many Arabs were massacred, their villages were destroyed, their village wells poisoned, and their properties looted to prevent them from returning.

Palestinians still lack a homeland 76 years later, in 2024. There are now 6 million Palestinian refugees, representing successive generations of families who fled or were forced from their homes and not allowed to return.

.

(Continued …)

.

.

(Continued …)

.

This is what the Special Rapporteur of the UN wrote regarding Human Rights in the occupied Palestinian territory on 21 March 2022 :

« In the Palestinian territory that Israel has occupied since 1967, there are now five million stateless Palestinians living without rights, in an acute state of subjugation, and with no path to self-determination or a viable independent state which the international community has repeatedly promised is their right. Over the past five decades, Israel has created 300 Jewish-only civilian settlements, all of them illegal, with 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers now living in East Jerusalem and the West Bank in the midst of, but apart from, three million Palestinians.

In Gaza, Israel has barricaded the two million Palestinians into what former British Prime Minister David Cameron called “an open-air prison,” a method of population control unique in the modern world.

In recent years, Israeli prime ministers have regularly and openly proclaimed that the country’s rule over the Palestinians and their land is permanent and that no Palestinian state will emerge.

Michael Ben-Yair, a former Attorney-General of Israel, said in 2022 that Israel has become: “…an apartheid regime… a one-state reality, with two different peoples living with unequal rights”. Ami Ayalon, the former Director of Shin Bet, wrote in his memoir: “We’ve already created an apartheid situation in Judea and Samaria, where we control the Palestinians by force, denying them self-determination”. Two former Israeli ambassadors to South Africa – Ilan Baruch and Alon Liel – stated in 2021 that Israel’s systematic discrimination: “…on the basis of nationality and ethnicity” now constitutes apartheid ».

Israel occupied both the West Bank and Gaza, following the 1967 Six-Day War.

The disengagement was proposed in 2003 by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and approved by the Knesset in 2005 as the Disengagement Plan Implementation Law. The motivation behind the disengagement was described by Sharon's top aide as a means of isolating Gaza and avoiding international pressure on Israel to reach a political settlement with the Palestinians.

.

It's hard to be optimistic about the future of the Israeli
Palestine conflict. Made even more difficult by brutal
political operators who try to elevate their own positions
by attacks on minorities.

Peter Dutton's record with his attacks on
African immigrants, Lebanese refugees and our Indigenous
people speaks for itself. He walked out of Kevin Rudd's
apology to the Stolen Generations and he pushed boundaries
of international law in his treatment of asylum seekers as
Home Affairs Minister.

However, the man is capable of surprises. His support of
gay marriage a few years ago and more recently of Julian
Assange. He just may change his mind regarding allowing
Palestinians to settle in Australia. Circumstances can
change. They must.

The fact remains that the Palestinian situation is dire.
And the world cannot simply turn away. We surely can't
ignore the devastation of the hospitals that the Israelis
have bombed and much worse.

The Palestinian people are not being treated in a humane
way. Their lives have been disrupted, made miserable.
They are being humiliated, arrested, and most poignant
of all, being torn from their homes, and their lands
taken away. Their daily lives are being squeezed and
destroyed and since they never see Israelis to talk to
they feel a hatred for them.

Most of us would if we were treated that way. Jews have
the full right of return. No Palestinian does. It's just
not fair. The Israelis seem to think that they can carry
through things without reference to international law.
What they are doing is illegal. Yet nobody seems to be
taking any notice. Especially not the US. Hopefully this
may change with a new American president.

It's time things changed - and a solution was seriously
sought. Forcing both sides to compromise and negotiate.
Miracles have happened, as we know - in the past. The
time for another one is way overdue.

I have to confess that decades ago - I didn't know much
about Palestine. I thought that the creation of Israel
was good. But little by little, especially travelling
and living overseas - became more educated as I read
books and articles about the situation, criticisms arose.

Today, I feel strongly about various issues. For example,
how are we ever going to solve threats to all of humanity
(and the planet) by over population, poverty, climate
change and other serious environmental problems if we
are going to keep killing each other in the name of
different prophets of the same god?

Humanity cannot afford to have fundamentalists with their
fingers on the nuclear war button.

Diversity is our Strength

http://tiny.cc/w49jzz

http://tiny.cc/OLO_ArabAttackInGermany

Let's get some more diversity.

Peter Dutton's record with his attacks on
African immigrants, Lebanese refugees and our Indigenous
people speaks for itself.
Foxy,
FFS, stop saying such stupid things ! if you're too stupid to understand what it means to stand for defending the Nation you live in you'd better shut up !
Dutton is not" attacking' he is stating facts & totally reasonable opinion. You're one of the "attackers" not Dutton !

Indyvidual,

In the case of Peter Dutton take a look at his track
record as the Minister for Home Affairs and then
take a short stroll through his parliamentary record.
The facts are all there. A person's behaviour speaks
for itself. And Dutton's record is on file.

mhaze,

We need to keep in mind that the religiously-minded
modern person is not a" card-carrying" fundamentalist
or extremist. The latter are a tiny minority. Of
whatever faith, a psychologist would be likely to
declare them to be of unsound mind.

Enjoy your week-end.

Cheers.

Hi Foxy,

For political advantage Dutton is trying to link ALL Palestinians to Hamas, and in turn to terrorism. Are all Americans south of the Mason-Dixon Line card carrying members of the KKK, and therefore should be band from Australia as dangerous racists? Me thinks not, the dangerous racists are north of the line and post such rubbish on this forum!

Hi Paul,

Some people lack the ability to laugh at themselves.
That's where we come in.

I've been accused of giving advice. That doesn't mean
that I know more that anyone else. It just means
that I've done more stupid stuff.

I've also been accused of being childish. Well,
my maturity level depends on who I'm with. (smile).

Anyway, there are people who'll attack everything.
It's a diversion. But I think most of us enjoy sparring.
That's why we keep coming back.

Father's Day is just around the corner.

I suspect there's quite a few on this forum who are
giants - with the heart of a teddy.

Hi Foxy,

A good story; We ran a 'Jukebox Karaoke' afternoon a couple of Saturdays back 1pm to 4pm went to 5pm for disabled folk young and old and their carers, and others including family, people from all kinds of backgrounds. First time with 'Karaoke Music Man' running things, everything donated and a side table of food and soft drinks, big donation of pizza's from Pizza Hut, a real party atmosphere with the hall decorated by volunteers. Didn't know how it would go, but turned out a real success, have another one sometime in the future. Our total spend was less than a few hundred for about 80 people.

p/s Got to hear some real life stories, and people through no fault of their own ended up the way they are. To give you an idea, one lady in her 60's said she become progressively disabled, when at 4 years of age she fell out onto the road from the backseat of the family car while dad was driving, the car door came open, in the days before seat belts, and she fell out, lucky to survive, now she needing full time care and confined to a chair. BTW, ABBA got a real workout that afternoon.

Hi Paul,

So good to hear something positive. I've been feeling
a bit down lately. My daughter-in-law flew out today
so visit her family overseas. Her dad's not well.
Father's Day is coming up next Sunday. Looking forward
to more family time. A pizza afternoon. Yum!

Hi Paul,

Talking about celebrations.

I'm currently cooking up a storm - for the grand kids.
I'm going to be making the traditional dishes of- soups,
from pumpkin to borsch. Potato pancakes, to other
blini or pancakes. And of course - Russian salads and
desserts. And roasts. It should keep me busy for a couple
of days. But I want to spoil the kids a bit while their
mum's away.

Hi Foxy,

Glad you are cooking, I enjoy cooking as well. Besides the bad things, so many good things happen in the world, not just big things, but everyday little events, little happenings in the local community (last Sunday nights "Karma On The Beach" event, wife and neighbour went along, something different). Reading the posts of some on here, these conservative old guys, their life must be a complete misery, filled with doom and gloom, always negative about everything, and anyone not like them. Sad really.

The Prime Minister of Singapore has the Woke & the dangers caused by them accurately summed up !
If only the West had leaders of his calibre !

Rest easy in the knowledge that the good Albo and Pen Pen never waste an opportunity to invest taxpayer dollars wisely. In this instance the funding of UNRWA will go toward assisting Hamas in their terrorist activities as well as state sponsored child abuse, ensuring that another generation of Palestinian children will be indoctrinated with a genocidal hatred of their neighbours. Well done cult leader Albo and side kick Pen Pen, heroes of Australia both.

https://unwatch.org/hillel-neuer-on-sky-news-concerns-mount-over-unrwa-terror-ties-following-investigation/

Fester, you are now ranting like some halfwit Nazi. Your last post is an absurdity, lacking in credibility. You have previously claimed to be some "middle of the road" conservative, pity that was an obvious lie. Truthfully you hate Labor, so be it. I'm not that keen on Dutton and the Noalition, unlike you, I've never tried to make out otherwise.

.

Avi Shlaim (age 79) is an Israeli and British historian of Arab-Jewish descent. He is one of Israel's "New Historians", a group of Israeli scholars who put forward critical interpretations of the history of Zionism and Israel.

In this video interview with Ash Sarkar (age 32), a British journalist, he provides clear insights into the lead-up to the creation of Israel and its far-reaching consequences beyond the current crisis.

Given Israel’s opposition to a two-state solution with the Palestinians, he preconises :

« One democratic state from the river to the sea with equal rights for all the people who live there, regardless of religion and ethnicity ».

Here is the video (about 1 hr) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMJJiZlXOi0

.

Hi Foxy,

Glad you are a COOK and not a COOKER, we have a lot of COOKERS on the forum, see the slang meaning of Cooker. mhaze, Indy, ttbn, a few others, are "COOKERS" as are most of the extreme right.

COOKER; Crazy person who believes in extreme irrational conspiracy theories. That's our lads.

Paul

"Fester, you are now ranting like some halfwit Nazi. Your last post is an absurdity, lacking in credibility."

Me a Nazi? You are the dyed in the wool uber Jew hater, not me. I only reject the idea of hatred and division being instilled in society. Just because you think that UNRWA doesn't support terrorism and child abuse does not make it so. Hopefully the NT vote will set a national precedent. I've had enough of cult leader Albo's secrecy, hatred, divisiveness, incompetence and disrespect of democracy.

What makes you the arbiter of credibility anyway?

Kudos ttbn, mhaze, Indyvidual, Armchair Critic, others.

I find the Iron Law Of Oligarchy interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

"Who says organization, says oligarchy."

I think Foxy is Anti-White/ Anglophobic.

In my nation I think we need to protect the institutions from the threat of Foxy and her insurgent attacks on poor local peoples.

Foxy reminds me of Gramsci, remember his method of passive aggression.

Perhaps Foxy is a ""card-carrying" fundamentalist or extremist... of unsound mind". Sadly Psychologists seem to be complicit in Globalist Woke Marxism.

It's interesting what the Heritage Foundation have to say about Cultural Marxism.
http://www.heritage.org/progressivism/report/how-cultural-marxism-threatens-the-united-states-and-how-americans-can-fight

Didn't 50% or something vote for Hamas so most Palestinian's are complicit with Hamas. Perhaps Paul1405 is a "dangerous racist" "halfwit Stazi".

Every culture needs their own nation.

All cultures have a right to protect their own culture and live with their own culture without being molestered

Some people are distinguished for ignorance.

They have only one idea and it is wrong.

Hi Foxy,

Fun fact: What happened to all the Gestapo agents that ended up in East Germany? Apparently many of them became Stasi agents. That might seem strange, but only if you think of the distribution of hatred as a bell curve. If you see it as circle then it makes sense as people who choose hatred all end up in the same place.

Enjoy your day!

CM

I don't think we need to bother about protecting Australia from the two Marxists, neither of whom know their arses from their elbows.

I had experience of two of their sort on the bus yesterday. Both got on without scanning metro cards cards. The female called the bus driver a c..t twice for no apparent reason. The male laughed and talked to himself, f..k being every second word.

Once upon a time, people like that were kept in secure institutions that were closed down by governments who are not interested in protecting society. There is nowhere for them to go, now.

In the case of the two here, we have to think of OLO as a bus. They can't be prevented from boarding, but we need to look away.

Re Cooking. During a recent get together in the a near-by small town, I made the acquaintance of an abattoir worker who promised to get me some quality offal. Offal is hard to find these days.

Since then I've made some old favourites from a time when people actually didn't waste the best parts of the animal.....lamb's fry and bacon, sweetbread, lamb's brains.

Hi Fester,

Thank you for your well wishes.

Anything is possible. Decades ago I remember reading
about the accusations of Nazi criminals fleeing to
countries all over the world, including Australia.
On the law of averages if Nazis could do that - I guess
so could other political crims. Switching sides for
convenience. Anything is possible. Conspiracy theories
will continue to abound.

___________________________________________________________________

As for CM's and ttbn's provocations?

You take the lies out of both of them and they'll shrink
to the size of your hat. You take the malice out of them, and
they'll disappear.

I have so much more for them to be mad about.

They need to just be patient.

Perhaps they need new haters to join their club?

The old ones are starting to like me.

As for me being anti white and anti English?

I'm actually color blind. I don't see things in terms
of color. And how can I be anti-English - when I have
an English mix in my own family.

In any case - the English are very good at forgiving their
enemies: it releases them from the obligation
of liking their friends.

George Bernard Shaw wrote:

The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented
cricket to give them some idea of eternity.

Lol.

"Fun fact: What happened to all the Gestapo agents that ended up in East Germany? Apparently many of them became Stasi agents."

Well going from supporting the Nazi state to supporting the Communist state was a small step. I have written here previously how vast numbers of German communists migrated to the Nazis in the early 1930s because the movements were so similar. Just change your uniform but do and believe the same things.

So it wasn't all that difficult for them to swap back in late 1945. Change your uniform, do and believe the same things.

You take the lies out ...
Foxy,
You're accusing decent folk of doing what you're actually the most guilty of !
Do accuse Dutton of racism instead of trying to understand his determination to save this Nation is not only frighteningly wrong, it is also alarmingly treasonous !

"Well going from supporting the Nazi state to supporting the Communist state was a small step."

More a pirouette I think. There is no such thing as good hatred as far as I can see.

Dear Fester,

Thank you.

Indyvidual,

You sound rather hysterical.

That's concerning.

I am not accusing anyone.

Stating facts from Peter Dutton's parliamentary and track
record is just that - statements of facts.

I can't be held responsible for his record.

Here's a link that may help clarify things for you:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/21/the-opposition-says-australias-approach-to-refugees-from-gaza-is-too-generous-who-is-actually-being-let-in

It was former US President Barack Obama who told
Americans - "We shouldn't fear the future.
We should shape it."

I, like him, have faith in the world. In the triumph of
good over evil. In our own generous big-hearted country.
Yes, we have been tested by so many challenges. And
undoubtedly there will be many more to test us. But we
should remain optimistic about our future as a nation.

We need to stop fanning people's fears,
and spreading division. Instead lets look with
hope, tolerance, and reason, to our future.

How would any of us feel if we were discriminated against
because some lunatics in our religion did bad things and
as a result - we were all tarred with the same brush?
If your children were spat upon at school?

People don't think of the pain and suffering that a few
can cause to many. But we as a community - can indicate
that bad behaviour will not be tolerated - from anyone.

It's up to us - what kind of country we want for ourselves,
and for others. Australia as a signatory to international
treaties is obligated to help with refugee intakes. Our
government has vetting processes in place. Surely we should
just let them do their job?

The following link gives an account of how and who Australia
is actually letting in.

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/21/the-opposition-says-australias-approach-to-refugees-from-gaza-is-too-generous-who-is-actually-being-let-in

Yes Foxy reminds me of the Red Guards who loved the disbelievers to death. The end result of the policies that Foxy promotes seems to be the destruction of the descendants of the founders of Australia. This policy is Anti-White/ Anglophobia.

The policy view that all countries (especially White ones) should have open borders is racist and is Marxist in the sense that it denies that cultures need territory to maintain their identity in order to destroy that identity and subsume it within an alternate totalitarian identity.

Most understand that there is a requirement for light touch regulation at regional and global levels, but the rising globalism isn't light touch, but is totalitarian.

In ancient time subsidiarity hierarchies of regional, local power structures was necessary due to limitations of communication and transport. Sadly we have allowed technology to dominate us rather than for us to dominate the technology. The world is what we make it.

Cosmopolitanism is chaos but people prefer stability. Contemporarily there has been a merging of Woke Marxism and Capitalism where "red tape and government spending" are the saddle that Woke Marxist Academics use to "ride" business and through business the community.

I say that people should be able to live peacefully in their own communities that work for themselves based on their own traditions on the territory of their ancestors. Foxy seems to be saying that everyone should live according to her fetishized beliefs of globalized policy. I believe Foxy is a tyrant. I hope to see her with less power.

This is from a speech given by former US President Barack
Obama on September 27th 2007 which is still relevant today:

"One of the things I think the next president has to do is
to stop fanning people's fears. If we spend all our time
feeding the American people fear and conflict and division,
then they become fearful and conflicted and divided. And
if we feed them hope and we feed them reason, and tolerance,
then they will be tolerant and reasonable and hopeful."

We shouldn't fear the future. We should shape it.

We're in good hands with our security agencies. They don't
have a "carte blanche" system. Visas are subject to
extensive screening and security checks. Our agencies
can be trusted to ensure our safety.

And as a democratic country with signatory obligations - we
must apply the same humanitarian processes for all with no
distinction on the basis of race, language, place of birth
or faith.

That's the Australian wa - of a "fair-go." Of which we can all
be proud.

If you research business owners such as Westfield and many others in Australia their apparent "capitalist tyrannical" nature seems to derive from a lack of connection with the founding culture of Australia. This gives license for Astro-Turf Marxist Worker False Flag groups to rise up against "the man" and his "false consciousness" that enslaves "the workers", by uniting with global workers. And bringing swathes of global workers into Australia in the name of protecting the Australian worker. Destroying Australian culture doesn't protect the Australian worker, it makes the core founding culture weaker, and the insurgent foreign influence beach-head larger. The Marxist Gramsci talked about changing a community from within the institutions, including tactics of "holding the decision process hostage".

There are certain foreign and anti-tradition groups that work surreptitiously on both sides of politics to destroy traditional localized power, under the auspices of fair play. It is not fair play to destroy a people, eventually these people will fold all cultures into their totalitarianism, in the name of freedom, all the while saying that we are "the hateful ones".

They will call Traditional principles old fashioned, excepting their own.

The founding people of Australia have been saddled and controlled by the principle of "fair play" but this process hasn't been fair.

Traditional cultures need to "stop agreeing to fair play" and "start looking after cultural survival". Don't listen to those with policies designed to destroy them by overt and covert means. Don't let evil divide parents and children, men and women, rich and poor, etc.

Live within and support your culture as much as you can.

Reward those who support your culture, and punish those who attack it, work with other cultures to create a more stable future for both, but don't allow cooperation to undermine the integrity of your culture.

Don't give up your nation, your territory, your home to thieves.

It seems that Foxy is fearful of White people being in control of their own countries.

CM

As a bored housewife with little education, ignorantly relying on extreme Left/Marxist institutions and websites for the little she knows about anything, the woman has no power whatsoever. She is definitely a wannabe tyrant, though, and we can be thankful that she is just another nutty keyboard warrior, trying to relieve her personal problems and psychological shortcomings with bizarre outbursts and sprays into the ether.

Such self-loathing and displays of being a victim of serious brainwashing are rare in a person of her age: they found mainly in the young and easily-led.

She has displayed her obsession with race, minorities, multiculturalism and general anti-Australianism for long enough. Sending her to Coventry is the only way to get any peace. Anything else only encourages her.

On the matters of race and culture and the wickedness of Australians - things that have clearly sent her mad, I read this today, by Carp Schmitt, ‘The Concept of the Political’ -

“ …the idea of a large group of people with mutually exclusive values and radically different cultures coming together and working out all of their differences through an exchange of ideas is, on its face, an unrealistic fantasy”.

There's a refreshing and obvious truth, slowly being realised by people of goodwill and good sense throughout the West, as the results of multiculturalism and inappropriate immigration are becoming more apparent, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Western countries all over the world.

Thanks ttbn for the quote. Schmitt is interesting for comparative Hegelianism and critical political philosophy, and for sticking with his principles under fire, a leader in law and political philosophy. I plan on reading more despite, or perhaps because, he is a controversial figure. Always you need to remember, not what people say, but why they say it!

This is some information about Schmitt's relationship with Hebrew American- Leo Strauss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss#Encounters_with_Carl_Schmitt_and_Alexandre_Koj%C3%A8ve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt#Dialogue_with_Leo_Strauss

Hi Foxy,

Take no notice of the diatribe delivered against your by a couple of forum far right nut jobs, as they rave on about you being a Marxist/Communist. Old men with old ideas, that's all they are.

We shouldn't fear the future. We should shape it.
Foxy,
To suit who ? The idiot Woke ? Get real ! You really are trying hard to come across as silly as our resident amoeba. Do yourself a favour & start looking up common sense, you'd be wasting a lot less of our time here !

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your kind words and concern.

Hi Paul,

I usually care very little about personal attacks.
If anything, they quickly devalue a person to me
instantly and I cease to care about anything they
have to say. If that's the best they can do they'll
never change my mind on anything.

Using language like they do about me and against me?
Who does that? A hell of a thing to say on a discussion
forum. Personal attacks have no place on discussion forums.
The arguments should be attacked not the person you don't know
and make false assumptions and accusations about.

Being consistently attacked so viciously is wearing a bit thin.
As is having my buttons pushed. But sometimes - the comments
are hard to ignore. Dodging spit balls is no fun.
Ah well, that's life here on OLO.

The fragility of those puffed up in their glass houses. Mostly I take peoples insults, and get them to see their reflection. A bit childish but it makes a point. Often insults seem to be a projection of their blindness, not insulting but annoying and frighteningly dangerous. If someone of dangerous contempt insults me, it's a compliment.

Another item- some have advocated substituting philosophy for psychology, as a superior more socially holistic method of addressing personal internal conflict and it's relationship to society. Philosophy has been the means to address "psychology" (foundation attributed to the Freud and his family) for centuries.
Perhaps the western tradition of philosophy is what inspired Jungian holisticism.

Talking previously about those trying to weaken Anglo-European society and the subtle frameworks and reframing used to achieve these ends, it seems that in a sense "psychology" also creates fragmentation of social structure.

The relationship between the views of Freud (Analyst) and Jung (Relativist) seems to parallel others such as Isaac Newton (Analyst) and Liebnitz (Relativist) and Einstein (Relativist); Transformational (Analytic) vs Transactional (Relativist) management. Both analytic and relativist approaches are useful for context- most practitioners seem to be one or the other.

The idealism/ realism dichotomy also seems to be related.

Talking about glass houses?

No stone throwing please. Regardless of your housing
situation.

Online there is a lack of personal eye-to-eye contact and
of course on some forums, a certain level of anonymity.
No one is going to give anyone else a black eye for
something they say. Especially when most people live so far
away from each other.

Because people are not together in person, there are those who
seem to think that ordinary rules of behaviour don't apply.
The days of "agreeing to disagree" appear to be out, being
replaced by trolling, flaming, and out and out personal abuse.

What do people get out of it?

They get the freedom to say whatever they want to whoever they
want, without fear of every having to look others in the eye.
They get to think only about themselves and if they're a
member of a political party they get to make derogatory and
insulting comments about other political parties and
other people.

They often puik their diatribe rife with generalizations
and thinking they're going to get away with it. And, most of
the time they do.

Not sure what the following adage has to do with anything but
it's certainly pithy:

You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be led.

Cheers.

Hi Foxy,

I see those unnecessary personal attacks on you from others, because they disagree with your social progressive stance on issues, typical of negative people, but just ignore it.

I on the other hand are most fortunate, I have a loyal band of followers on OLO, ttbn, mhaze, Indy, CM several others who agree with every word I say. I'm actually embarrassed by all that fawningness I receive from The Lads for my unbiased social comment, and not to mention the kudos I am constantly showered with from the Kudos Kid, I can't do without that!

Anyway, its coming on to dark, its 4.30 already, the chooks are off to roost, and its beddy-bye's time for 'The Lads' down at 'The Shady Pines Rest Home For Old Farts', Nursey will be along soon with their nightly 'Doz Ezy' tab for each one, and a fresh dry incontinence pad. Sweet dreams old fellas!

puik their diatribe rife with generalizations
Foxy,
Yes, you're one of the worst !

Hi Paul,

I watched "Q & A" this evening. The panel were a good mix.
Good representation of all sides of politics. They showed
what politics should be like. It gave me hope that our
future looks good.

This discussion has certainly been robust. And undoubtedly
the issues won't go away any time soon.

I look forward to the next discussion.

Cheers.

Indyvidual,

Negative comments come from negative minds.

Sad, but true.

So remember to stay positive.
(smile).

.

Cyberbullying …

.

Bullying, harassment, vilification, intimidation, etc. is unsocial behaviour. It is illegal in Australia under federal, state and territory law.

In Victoria, where I understand Foxy lives, “Brodie’s Law” applies with a maximum penalty of 10 years prison.

Brodie’s Law applies to all forms of serious bullying, including physical bullying, psychological bullying, verbal bullying and cyberbullying. It applies to bullying occurring anywhere in the community, such as workplaces, schools, sporting clubs and on the internet including email or social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter.

There is ample evidence that Foxy is constantly victim of cyberbullying on this OLO Forum by regular posters whose anonymity could legally be lifted by the police and brought to justice.

I don’t think Graham or any of us would like to see that happen, so I suggest that the would-be alpha males and their cohorts cease their incivilities and adopt a more respectful attitude towards Foxy immediately - not just on this thread, but right throughout OLO and the Forum on all future posts of whatever nature.

The Australian Human Rights Commission reminds us that "just as we have human rights we also have responsibilities to respect and protect the rights of others. A supportive bystander will take action to protect the rights of others".

.

Dear Banjo,

Thank you so very, very, much for your post on cyberbullying.

It's a subject that I find hard to understand.

Also, this is a subject that I don't find easy to talk about
right now.

All I can do is tell you that I feel honoured for your
support and I appreciate it more than words can ever say.

Once again - Thank You.

Cyber Bullying,
BP, lefties such as yourself are quite happy to poke and prod whilst on a conservative opinion site, why are you here? Can't handle conservatives having a say?
Same question to Foxy, why are you here? You only provoke and prod and when people eventually react you cry "why am I being attacked?"
BP goes one step further, vaguely threatens legal action through the HRC, what are you afraid of mate, people offering honest opinions or maybe you enjoy being the "white knight" and racing into defending another leftie from being given a truth lesson?
A teaspoon of cement dust may help!!

PS Only lefties think Mr Dutton is a racist. Prove me wrong.

Kudos FireballXL5.

Actually I didn't "react" in a sense. I just took XXX's "their comments" and put them in quotes and appended- "Perhaps <XXX> is <their comments>" I could have used AI to do it the amount of intelligence I put into it.

They obviously didn't like their own words used against themselves even if I only implied rather than asserted as they generally do to others from memory.

Anyway Kudos FireballXL5

.

Dear FireballXL5,

.

You ask :

1. « Why are you here ? »
.

I am here because OLO describes itself as follows :

« On Line Opinion is a not-for-profit e-journal that aims to provide a forum for public social and political debate about current Australian issues. We publish articles to stimulate a public discourse on a range of topics. It is not the editors’ intention to dominate these pages – these articles are gathered from a variety of independent sources and are published in the belief that ideas are the essence of progress and that issues and opinions should be addressed, not suppressed. We welcome any rational contribution to what has become a robust public debate not available in any other media or forum.

We hope this site will be a useful resource to all people with an interest in Australian public affairs. Thanks for your interest - we welcome your involvement. »
.

2. « Can't handle conservatives having a say? »
.

I am quite happy for anybody and everybody to “have a say”, FireballXL5 – including conservatives and yourself – irrespective of gender, religion, ethnicity, political allegiance, etc.
.

You state :

« BP … vaguely threatens legal action through the HRC … »
.

That was not a “threat”, FireballXL5. It was a warning. I warned that “In Victoria, Brodie’s Law applies to all forms of serious bullying … subject to a maximum penalty of 10 years prison. I did not indicate that legal action would be made “through the HRC”. In a democracy such as Australia, legal action is made through a court of law not through the HRC or any other organisation or entity.
.

Finally, you ask :

« what are you afraid of …, people offering honest opinions … ? »
.

I’m happy for people to offer their opinions, whatever they may be – honest or dishonest, good or bad, etc. I am always willing to listen.

.

.

Dear FireballXL5,

.

I forgot to comment on your remark that “Only lefties think Mr Dutton is a racist” and your request to “prove [you] wrong”.
.

I have no way of knowing if “only lefties think Mr Dutton is a racist”, FireballXL5. I doubt that anyone has the means of interviewing the 26 million Australians to find out, and even if they did, there’s no way of knowing if everybody is telling the truth or not.

I nevertheless googled the question on the internet and discovered that Peter Dutton, himself, declared that he is not a racist. Again, I have no way of knowing if he is telling the truth or not.

As a result, I’m afraid I can’t prove you wrong, as you request.

If you can do it, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me how.
.

By the way, FireballXL5, as you seem to be interested in conservative party politics, I forgot to mention in my previous post that Brodie’s Law criminalising cyberbullying was established by the conservative Liberal–National Party Alliance government of Victoria in 2011.

I thought it might be of interest to you and your conservative friends here on OLO.

.

Dear Banjo,

Thank you for answering Fireball's questions. You've
covered them rather well on behalf of us both.

I've made the decision to focus on the positives and
not the negatives and not allow myself to be in any
way reduced by any of this.

We have so much to be grateful for in this wonderful country
of ours, as I've stated so many times on this forum.

We should be proud of the society that's been enriched by
the joint ventures and endeavours of both sides of
politics - which have created what we are today.

We need to see the good in all dimensions of our Australian
society, including our Indigenous culture.

As for the question of Peter Dutton being a racist?

Politically, Peter Dutton has, as I wrote earlier, proven
himself to be a brutal operator. He's repeatedly sought
to elevate his own position by attacks on minorities, including
African immigrants, Lebanese refugees, and Aboriginal people.

He walked out of Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations
and he pushed boundaries of international law in his treatment
of asylum seekers as Home Affairs Minister.

All anyone has to do is again, as I stated earlier - take a
stroll through his parliamentary records. The facts speak
for themselves. People can't be blamed for the man's track
record.

At the same time, I also pointed out that Peter Dutton is
capable of surprise. His support of gay marriage a few
years ago and more recently of Julian Assange. I also
stated that it was beneficial having a strong opposition which
holds governments to account and makes them perform better.

However we must apply the same humanitarian processes for
all with no distinction on the basis of race, language,
place of birth or faith.

One of the things we all should be doing is stop fanning
people's fears. Also political divisions amongst ourselves
of Right, Left, et cetera - aren't very constructive.

Divisive comments by political leaders put a target on
certain communities and fan sentiments of discord between
communities and affect cohesion throughout the country.

Yes FirebirdXL5. How can it be bad to protect the mainly British people that founded the nation Australia under the British program.

Marxism doesn't support the idea of personal property ownership in a sense, so the idea of open borders that many on the Left support, seems to coincide.

Marxist "state ideological ownership" is similar to "open borders".

In history nations and peoples have identified with particular territories, some more than others.

In a sense "Marxist ideology" is a form of "culture and perhaps ethnicity" (ethnicity if you consider the extent of ideological euthanasia cleansing in Marxist countries still unaccounted for)(Perhaps Marxists tried to change peoples physical brains by euthanasia breeding out counter-revolutionary genes).

It seems that Marxist's consider themselves superior to others, it's ok for Marxist Culture/ Ethnicity to have their own territory but not other cultures.
____________

I don't like to use the terms Left and Right. I find describing the movements to be a more accurate description of the political landscape ie Marxist, Classic Traditional Labor movement, Workers Parties, Business Parties, Traditionalism (the original political system that the "Lefties" call the Far Right Extremism in order to denigrate it and to imply a veiled immorality and illegality), etc.

See political spectrum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

The Left Right "Single Axis" model seems heavily influenced by the Frankfurt School of political thought producing many "Leftist/ Marxist" activists including the Hebrew Gay Psychologist, Herbert Marcuse "Father Of The New Left".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Marcuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Frankfurt_Institute_for_Social_Research

"The Institute was founded in Frankfurt am Main in 1923, where it was (and as of 2005 once again is) affiliated with the University of Frankfurt am Main. It was founded by Felix Weil, a student of the Marxist philosopher Karl Korsch, with an endowment provided by Weil's wealthy father Hermann Weil. Its first director, Kurt Albert Gerlach, who proposed the idea of creating the institute with Weil, died before making his mark, and was swiftly followed by Carl Grünberg, a Marxist historian who gathered together fellow "orthodox" Marxists at the Institute, including his former pupil Henryk Grossman."

Not only do Woke Marxist's attack the founding peoples of nations, such as British Australian's, but they often use proxies such as the Islamic community (for example with the Pro-Palestinian protests) some of whom also claim Socialist beliefs, but of a more ethno-nationalist flavour. From memory the Sunni Baath Party claims the principles of Socialism, Nationalism, Islamism. In a sense the Marxist's have recruited Islamic mercenaries to fight it's battles, similar to the recruiting of the Irish mercenaries by the English against the Scots (in the British Isles context).

Viewing through Machiavelli's "The Prince", Marxism could be said to be rooted in Asia Minor/ Middle East based on it's structure. This seems plausible when you consider that Marx was Hebrew. Hebrew's identifying heavily with ancient Judea and Jerusalem in the Middle East. Machiavelli said that Turkish political structure was more monolithic around the sovereign, with it's rotating officials without personal armies, than more distributed European political structures, with lords and personal armies. So in a sense Middle Eastern political structures seem to be more tyrannical in a sense than Europe if you believe Machiavelli.

This Middle Eastern tyrannical structure seems even more the case in ancient China and during the Golden Hordes period of the 1200-1300's that led to a new period of European expansion.

Apparently the Frankfurt School has significant links with Columbia University in New York state.

Wikipedia tells us that:

"The culture of Australia is primarily a Western culture,
originally derived from the United Kingdom."

We're told that "The unique geography of Australia and the
cultural input of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and
other Australian people also influenced its culture."

We're told that "The British Colonisation of Australia
began in 1788 and waves of multi-ethnic migration followed."

George Brandis, former Liberal Attorney-General, stated
that we should be proud of our society that has evolved
with joint endeavours from both sides of politics - which
has created what we are today.

Our system of government while heavily influenced by the
British and US systems of government -
our Australian democracy differs from other
countries in several ways:

1) Australia was created peacefully when 6 colonies voted to
federate - join together in 1901. We are a Federation.

2) Australia is the only English-speaking country where voting
is compulsory.

3) Australians vote for representatives in both the House of
Representatives and the Senate.

4) Australians use preferential voting to make sure the
governments we elect have the support of the majority of voters.

Another key feature of our democracy is the secret ballot.
In fact it used to be called the Australian ballot.

Yes indeed, so many of the features of our Australian heritage
we can and do see the good in all dimensions of our Australian
society - of which we should (and most of us are) so very proud
today.

Protect the British people?

I'm sure we Australians would come to their defence if
needed, as we've done in the past. As I'm sure that they
would come to help us, if needed as would the US, and other
kindred spirits.

Australia's relationship with Britain will always remain
strong. We share a heritage. However we have to recognize
the simple fact that we are no longer British. Not in
Britain, Australia, or anywhere else in the world are we
seen as anything other than Australian.

Australia today is a democratic and egalitarian country.
Where you get ahead by merit not birthright. Being an
Aussie means acknowledging one of our great values -
mateship. Which means lending a helping hand and looking
out for others - not just a select few.

It means relating to all people as equals and not according
to class distinctions or caste. As these are characteristics
of the old world. And more than that - it means we support
our own.

When you arrive at Heathrow you're greeted as a foreign
national. Australians are not seen as British by Britons.
And we don't see ourselves as British. But that doesn't mean
that we don't have a strong relationship with Britain - we
certainly do. And this will remain strong regardless of how
we may re-arrange our constitutional arrangements in the
future - should we decide to become a republic.

.

Dear Foxy,

.

I’m afraid I only take an episodic interest in politics. It’s at the bottom of my priorities, only rising a notch or two when voting time comes around and whenever some unforeseen political crisis demands my attention.

I steer clear of ideologies that happen to cross my path and I have a visceral aversion to human herd behaviour. I don’t want any blinkers on my eyes.

As for Peter Dutton, I see him as a political henchman doing the dirty work that many Australians want done but are ashamed to admit. Some pretend the opposite, most simply remain silent. A few protest.

Metaphorically, Dutton represents the dark side of the Australian ethos. He assumes the role well. He does the job efficiently and effectively, without the slightest remorse, and is rewarded for it in terms of political power and influence. But we are all morally and legally responsible.

As I see it, whether Dutton is a racist or not is irrelevant.

It’s up to us to decide, collectively, what we consider to be the best solutions to our problems, and have the courage to assume the consequences of those decisions.

.

Politicians didn't ask the Australian people about immigration. This is not democratic it is tyranny. Foxy if she is promoting immigration immigration on this basis would therefore be tyrannical too. Perhaps not a fully constructed syllogism- but enough.

Talking about promoting immigration?

I'm not promoting anything. Just stating historical facts
that are on record. The question of immigration is dealt
with by our governments. The people we elect to represent us
and who make decisions on our behalf. If we don't like the
decisions they make - we vote them out. Nothing was or is
forced on us. The White Australia policy was formally
abolished and, other legislation such as the Race Discrimination
Act was passed. And now cuts are being made in the intake and
type of immigrants.

_____________________________________________________________________

Dear Banjo,

It will be interesting to see how Australia
votes at the next election. As well as which path
will America follow?
Interesting times ahead. If only Putin could get kicked out.
Sadly, for the Russians, - it's hard to reform and transform an
authoritarian political system. But hopefully, one day. Putin's
replacement may try. Realistically I can't see it happening
in my lifetime.

Also, -

My hope is for a ceasefire in the Middle-East conflict.
Though that is also problematic with neither-side willing to
compromise - or so it appears.

Banjo, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record. But again
thank you for taking the time to be part of my discussion
topics. It encourages me to read and do research, and learn
things that I normally wouldn't do. At the moment I'm into
researching Persian poets (my doctor is Persian) and we started
a discussion recently on Omar Khayyam. I got his Rubaiyat
mixed up with Coleridge's - Kubla Khan.

I have to do a bit more research to make things clearer to
myself. How did Coleridge come to write something like
Kubla Khan?

This all started because I wanted to make a gift to my GP of
a book of Persian poetry as a Thank you. He makes house visits
and often does not charge us - as he regards us as family.
Imagine that. Anyway, I'll keep on searching the information.

The question of immigration is dealt
with by our governments.
Foxy,
No, it's not hence so many discussions about immigration ! Unless of course you call what's going on successful management in which case you have a problem also !

Indy, how did YOU get into the country? Now be honest!

Paul1405,
Legally, can you say the same ? My guess is that you cost Australia way more than I !

Paraphrasing the Declaration of Independence.

When a government is not of a people, by a people, for a people, the government is a dictatorship and a tyranny and it's the right and duty of the people to throw off that government if necessary by force.

It pays for those that seek office within the institutions of democracy to remember these words.

Irony- See that Indyvidual you should look Paul1405 in the eye and be straight with him because he's such a paragon of virtue, there's a good boy. Paul1405 might enjoy the game "evil Jesus". From the ridiculous to the sublime- without the sublime.

If Paul1405 is typical of the philosophy and principles of "The Australian Greens Party" I wouldn't trust them.

Indy,

I didn't "get into the country" I was born here, and still paying taxes. Australia welcomes migrants who make a contribution, from all parts of the world, and like all the decent native born we pay them an Aged Pension when they retire from active work. Then you said you gave work a miss when Gough got in, in 72', 50 years ago, and sacked you from the PS, been on the benefit ever since. Still paying 8 bucks for a schooner down at God's Waiting Room. Disgusting!, you're in for another pay rise in September, what's aged welfare now $500 a day? When Seniors National Service is up and running, I can see we're going to have to "crack the whip" on fellas like you.

Kudos Kid,

When people like you start voting for the Greens, then I know I'm voting for the wrong party. Anyway I think you're an American, a good ole'boy from Alabama, a card carrying member of the KKK, who likes to quote some Greek cafe' owner named Arsethrottle!

A Muslim group supporting Palestine has been awarded charity status by the you-beaut Albanese anti-Semites.

https://dailydeclaration.org.au/2024/08/28/muslim-group-charity-status/

Chalmers should be sacked for his mad attack on Peter Dutton.

https://dailydeclaration.org.au/2024/08/28/albo-should-fire-jim-chalmers/

Top 10 world's fastest growing countries:

South Sudan—4.65 percent growth rate
Niger—3.66 percent
Angola—3.33 percent
Benin—3.29 percent
Equatorial Guinea—3.23 percent
Uganda—3.18 percent
Democratic Republic of the Congo—3.11 percent
Chad—3.01 percent
Mali—2.9 percent
Zambia—2.83 percent

No wonder their governments are so keen to divest themselves of their population instead of doing something about it where they are breeding.

It's just too easy to help them head for the West, encouraged by Western politicians who simply a) cannot say no, or b) want to replace us with dumber demos more easily controlled. They even tolerate the crime these people often bring with them. It's all those white people spreading “misinformation” about climate change, peaceful Islam and the government's lack of action on defence, the economy, Western values, family values, Christianity, the rule of law, the presumption of innocence - all the things we believed up until about 50 years ago.

While these countries are breeding like rabbits, the US - a huge importer of people legally and illegally - is way down at number 131 on the growth list. Growth rate 0.67%.

Australia? Well Australia doesn't get a mention, as is often the case, but we are not replacing ourselves. 1.4 children being born and placed in Albanese's brain-washing “early learning centres”, while Mum goes out to work in mindless, bullsh.t jobs like the Soviet were forced to do, under the ugly sort of government we appear doomed to experience

Top 10 world's fastest growing countries:
ttbn,
Rephrase that to top 10 refugee exporting !

The Guardian did an Essential Poll recently which shows
that many Australians ( though not a majority) respond
positively to Peter Dutton's call for a pause on refugees
from Gaza.

However, having said that - The Guardian also points out
that this latest move by Peter Dutton is part of his
political strategy. The Guardian tells us that:

"When the issue is welfare - Dutton pivots to immigration.
When it's refugees Dutton hones in on our national security.
If the issue is jobs - Dutton makes sure Australians see new
arrivals as competitors not compatriots."

We're told that - "He is literally on a race to the bottom."

The Treasurer Jim Chalmers has described him as being -
"the most divisive leader of a political party."

And Dutton powers on.

Politics as we know is - unfortunately, a blood sport.

There's more at the following:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/27/peter-dutton-gaza-refugee-visas-palestine-ntwnfb

"Dutton makes sure Australians see new arrivals as competitors not compatriots".

That's just the Guardian scribbler's opinion.

How Australians "see new arrivals" is up to them to decide, not Dutton.

Australians don't need Dutton or the Guardian to make up there minds.

Except for Foxy, of course, who relies entirely on the Guardian and other communistic organisations for all of her "opinions".

Just like Albanese tries to appeal to Leftist voters, Dutton tries to appeal to the Right. Dutton is gaining, Albanese is failing - at the moment. That’s politics.

I have to say that I have changed my mind about Dutton in his revived form. He is now becoming more like the tough immigration minister he once was.

If Australian is to get back on track, we need Dutton as PM and another tough immigration minister.

I will be putting aside my preference for small, right wing parties at the next election, and voting according to the Liberal ticket: because that is the only practical way to get rid of Albanese and his communists. Dutton is better equipped to deal with the wets than the last two Liberal drongo PMs were, and there is always the Senate for real right wingers to keep an eye on things.

It would be more constructive as John Daysh, and others,
have pointed out time and time again on this forum -

"To try to contribute to the discussion than getting
yourself all tangled up trying to undermine the
credibility of others."

There is nothing to discuss, only opinions to be aired. Referring to the opinions of people and institutions outside of OLO is meaningless. References to opinions other than your own do not make your opinions any stronger or weaker; right or wrong.

If you, just for example, are of the opinion that I am an arsehole, dredging up references to everyone else who also thinks that I am an arsehole won't make your opinion any stronger or more valid. And it won't stop me from being an arsehole no matter how much people "discuss" the opinion.

Finally, the thing that really pisses me off about the use 'references' is that they obviously back up the user's opinion, or b) that's where she got the idea in the first place. Pointless! If you want to agree or disagree with the source, tell them about it. You are not going to change anyone's opinion here.

Kudos ttbn.

Some irony, a bit unsavoury, but there you go-

I think if Paul1405's cultural giant was labelled "arsethrottle" he or some proxy would make a great show of being offended.

Paul1405 seemingly calls the great western philosopher Aristotle "arsethrottle" presumably in order to support his argument.

So it seems that we can't avoid Paul1405's orifices...

Maybe he is using a different orifice to express/ impress himself, does he do the same when he eats? Does Foxy do the same in support of her political ally? Do others within his philosophical sphere see this particular orifice when they see the world. Do people of Paul1405's philosophy "eat" from these orifices. The world through the eyes of different orifices, this seems to be the world of Paul1405. What an "interesting perspective" on the human condition...

"They" talk about "a race to the bottom", not sure which bottom, but it sure sounds fairly mediocre to me. Cheers to mediocrity and to Paul1405's orifices!

Woke Marxist's also seem to see the world through a similar orifice to Paul1405. It has been called "the philosophy of envy" and "a race to mediocrity" (or is it bottom). It seems the solution to the problem might be for Paul1405 and Woke Marxist's to input and output through different orifices. And maybe the world won't be sprayed.

But what about the freedom of those that see that they have a right to spray and/or to be sprayed, those that see the virtue or not of the spray. To restrict someones spray could be seen as a form of tyranny, a repression, a blockage (there should be some medicine for this condition). Maybe there is the right of some to spray more than others, the "intersectional" spray. Different sprays might be appropriate to different cultures. Could some stockpile sprays as ammunition, perhaps take a different diet (maybe vegetarian), this could be done on a whole of cultural mobilization.

Maybe if we all were more careful and self regulated our orifices, careful of what we put in our orifices, what we put in the orifices of others, what orifices we get the material from that we give to others, what orifices are appropriate to different cultural contexts, what we accept from others orifices, the world would be a better place.

In a world of orifices, is the biggest orifice the king? Would you still want to be?

It's interesting that different orifices have different levels of sophisticated control than others, just like people.

Given that "Paul1405 seems to love to talk about orifices", in a purely intellectual way, I wait with bated (or baited) breath for his next Aristotle "arsethrottle installment". (I'll probably need to hold my breath after the installment too.)

http://www.vocabulary.com/articles/pardon-the-expression/bated-breath-vs-baited-breath/

This orifice debate is starting to give me the willies !

Wow! It must be a full Moon, The dogs are howling! The lads are beside themselves with repugnant indignation. Our very own Three Stooges at it again, one old fella wants Chalmers sacked for some perceived insult of his latest folk hero Dud Dutton, what happened to your love for Corny Banana? He's shocked when a religious nut job, a Brian Pickering, tells him about the evils of Muslims through his ultra right sin sheet the 'Daily Deceleration'. He also shocked that the black fellas of Africa are breeding faster than fly's in a cow pat. Backed up by number two, a refo himself on welfare who thinks they are all heading for Australia. The Kudos Kid kicks in with more of his diatribe, his cracked record of Woke/Marxists, I think he's a Marxists himself, probably Groucho, certainly not Harpo, never shuts up with his favourite subject of Marxists/Communists, they out there like them fly's and refos. There can't be much going on down Alabama way, he's constantly posting extended nonsense on OLO. Besides Daffy and Donald, do any other ducks read his nonsense? Me thinks not!

Hi Paul,

I'm doing more reading on Peter Dutton. Trying to better
understand the opposition leader. Frankly I have to admit
how his controversial career seems to have registered
little with the general public.

As someone said, "I know f-all about him." "Seems pretty
boring. I miss ScoMo. He had personality."

Dutton, to many, even in Queensland is not known from the
proverbial bar of soap. Some others said, "I know of him.
Ex-cop - right?"

I guess his unsmiling face on the 6pm news or hearing his
monotone - doesn't make people see him as Australia's
saviour. The new glasses do help.

However, I suppose that beating Labor is more important than
popularity. And we need to remember that John Howard at many
times during his career was also deeply unpopular.

It will be interesting to see prior to the election next
year how Dutton's is seen by the general public.

Will it be a case of - "Make Australia afraid again?"

Must we have our own Trump moment for Peter Dutton
to become Prime Minister?

Only time will tell.

Voters usually get it right in the end.

CM

Some people seem to talk/think through their fundamental orifices; including anyone who would call Aristotle “arsethrottle”. How could anyone who would do that be taken seriously! There is no way you could “discuss” anything with a genius like that.

I suppose, though, it's something of a feat that they can talk out of said orifices with their heads stuck up them.

I don't know why people are worried about a fairly normal bloke like Peter Dutton instead of taking notice of what the raving lunatic Adam Bandt is saying. Bandt announced last Wednesday “the biggest campaigns in Greens history to win lower house seats”. He reckons that the Greens could win five seats, and share POWER with Labor.

Now, that's really scary. Bandt wants POWER.

Remember Gillard and the two middle of the road dimwits who aided and abetted her minority government?

Well, think about how a much further Left than Gillard Albanese minority government aided, and abetted by virtual communist Greens, would be.

Kudos Indydividual, ttbn. Bit of fun. I could have said more but it's not worth it.

When things come out of our orifices either our mouths or some other orifice it reflects on our family and colleagues. I suppose to those with their heads in their anuses the world looks fairly dark, but light can replace darkness with a pull of the neck, sometimes it looks fairly dark anyway, but it takes discipline and an understanding of virtue to create a world worth living in. I just hope that Paul1405's mother doesn't have to endure being kissed with that excrement. Not sure why she didn't better toilet train Paul1405.

Probably "Arsethrottle Paul" will fail to throttle his anus, and triple down, rather than take his lead foot off the pedal, but that's his choice.

Anyway, enough for now.

That a person deemed by some voters to be fit to serve in Parliament was stupid enough call the Leader of the Opposition a ‘racist’ for his concern about bringing into our country people from a war zone when our current terror alert is PROBABLE should be more than enough to indicate that the Parliament needs a radical clean out at the coming election.

Out with the extreme Left of Labor, what there is of the Greens, and definitely the ‘experimental’ Teals; and the wets in the Liberal Party.

With a 50-50 chance of a terrorist attack in the next 12 months, we need something better in Parliament than a silly woman calling a potential Prime Minister schoolyard names.

Although it is true that our voting system is a “protection racket” for the two major parties, the one now in power has brought Australia so low in less than one term, that we must give the other a go.

This foolishness about giving a first term government another chance is far too risky in the case of Albanese Labor.

ABC prime git Sarah Ferguson said "Putting Australians first is not a very Australian thing to say" after Dutton told her his priority was the security for Australians.

Peter Dutton's relatively small cliques of leftwing
decryers and rightwing admirers according to recent
surveys and polls, they over estimate how his controversial
career has registered with the majority of the general
public.

In any case, come what may, hurling spit balls at who
is perceived as the enemy - won't make a heap of difference
in the general scheme of things. It's the majority who will
decide at the next election - as to who they want as Prime
Minister. Whether Dutton's issues of - crime, race,
national security - all timeless political issues will
generate with the majority or not - we shall have to wait
and see.

Until then, we do have interesting times ahead. Perhaps Dutton
may succeed in winning people over if he broadens his focus
to include issues that are of concern to people. Also having
some long-term plans and policies would help.

.

Speaking of Peter Dutton,

.

I have serious doubts that Peter Dutton could ever become Prime Minister of Australia.

Not because of his political, racial or religious convictions but – with all due respect – because of his looks.

Physical image, especially head and facial attractiveness, is an important component of human interaction. It weighs heavily on voters, even more so if the personality matches the looks.

Labor frontbencher Tanya Plibersek is quoted as having observed that Peter Dutton looked like the Harry Potter villain, Voldermort, (she later apologised, and Dutton accepted). Others see a resemblance with Vladimir Putin, though Putin is not completely bald but only has a receding forehead.

There has been quite a bit of research on what influences voters, and facial images of political candidates on posters have been “relooked” to carry a message and make them as attractive as possible.

Indications are that the impact of visual manipulation of candidate images does influence voters, but, happily, the informational context of the elections may have a competing influence.

In the case of federal elections for Prime Minister, the constant exposure of candidates to multimedia outlets reduces the impact of simple poster images however brilliantly the latter may be manipulated.

So, like Hans Christian Andersen’s Emperor, Peter Dutton is almost certain to be revealed exactly as he is – bald – so that a little boy might cry : “ Mr. Dutton has no hair ! ”.

Unless, of course, he goes to a hairdresser and has some hair tailored to fit his crown. Or, failing that, maybe he could wear a hat.

A digger’s hat might do the trick. Even though he has never been in the army, Peter Dutton served as Defence Minister for one year from 2021 to 2022 :

http://militaryshop.com.au/products/akubra-australian-army-slouch-hat.html

.

Hi Banjo!

Are you saying Mr Potato Head or Uncle Fester could never be PM? I'll have you know, Benito Mussolini did quite well at the political leadership game, until some organised feisty cuffs in the form of WWII got in the way. Besides, 'El Duce' never lost an election. There's hope for Pete yet. Also are you saying Pete lacks charisma, charm, personality, good looks, empathy, intelligence, jocularity, he may be slightly lacking in those attributes, but he does play a mean game of 'Parchis' which should hold him in good stead with the voters. Did you ask about policy, please don't mention policy around Pete, its an uncomfortable subject......there is policy, Pete wants to see a 'Parchis' board in every home by 3050! and if he has to sack the entire public service to achieve it, by god he will!

Hi Foxy,

You ask about Dud Dutton's working life, the short answer is he never had one. That's not quite correct, Dud joined the Queensland Police Force as a Constable Clod, 10 years later he was invalided out as Senior Constable Clod, a meteoric rise one would say. Why you ask? rumour has it Dud was doing the late night Macca's run for serg and the lads when he rolled the station squad car, resulting in the demise of several happy meals and a couple of apple pies, unfortunately the lads had to eat cold pizza's that night, most inconvenient. Following that kerfuffle Dud tried to sue the Queensland taxpayer for $125,000! That's a lot of 'Big Macs'! Don't know how that went. After the coppers, Pete went to "work" in Daddy Duttons construction business. That's also an interesting tale. Do know how true these stories are.

Dear Banjo,

I've not thought about Peter Dutton's looks regarding
his being elected or not as PM. Historically we've
had many leaders whose looks were not all that friendly.
But, personally I agree. To me the man does look like
something out of Harry Potter. Someone you wouldn't
trust - who scares little kids.

Having said that perhaps wearing glasses, a wig, or
a digger's hat might improve his image.
After all - image does matter.

Dear Paul,

I've never researched Dutton's career in any great depth.
He is ambitious and whether he gets elected as PM - will
depend on the image he's capable of putting forward to
the voters. As I said - interesting times ahead. I'm not
sure if Australia is ready or willing to buy into another
Trump.

Hi Foxy,

When the question was put to Pete's 2IC 'Squeaky' Ley by ace reporter 'Scoop' Scandal from the "Daily Hogwash"; What Do you think of Peter Dutton's Image? Squeaky answered; "Glad you asked that question, I've been working on it, no I DO NOT aspire to the job of party leader, BUT if you insist, well could do, by the way, Fearless Leader has my FULL SUPPORT!

http://www.reddit.com/r/AusMemes/comments/1dg8j1h/peter_dutton_should_stick_to_dreaming_about/

Dear Paul,

We can draw on so many world leaders who were not known
for their good looks. From Abraham Lincoln, Winston
Churchill, Golda Meir, to name just a few.

Looks have never been a hardship in politics. The important
thing seems to have been - is for a leader to be memorable.
Baby-faced, portly, cigar-chomping Winston Churchill
striding around blitzed London was not anyone's idea of an
Adonis - yet he will probably remain Britain's best loved
leader.

On the other side of the coin - even Shakespeare's Richard III
is not just a portrayal of evil. The character reveals that
ugliness, even monstrosity can be charismatic. Hitler, Stalin,
are other examp[les.

Hi Foxy

How one comes across on TV both looks and how one answer questions is important. Until post war political leaders had very little direct media exposure. Hitler was one of the first to see the value in modern media, and how it could be used to advantage.

Hi Paul,

You're right. Politicians are paying far more attention
to their images in modern times. Look at the recent
re-vamps that have occurred - with weight loss, new
hair-styles, new glasses, more trendy suits, et cetera.
Even Trump's orange face and comb-overs and using the media
consistently shows the importance of being seen.

I have to admit that Peter Dutton's new glasses look good.
As for not having hair. Well, neither did Eisenhower.

.

Alternative LNP candidate for PM in 2025 federal election,

.

The names that come to mind as possible alternative candidates for the LNP as PM in the 2025 federal election are, of course, those of Sussan Ley, deputy leader of the Liberal Party and Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and David Littleproud, Leader of the National Party.

Both have a full head of hair and, based on the little I know of their backgrounds and respective political positions, I have the impression Littleproud has his feet firmly on the ground and his head among the stars which to me is quite positive, whereas I can’t say I get the same vibes from Sussan Ley who gives me the impression she is wading in a quagmire and can’t find solid ground.

If the worst came to the worst, I think I would prefer Littlepond to either Dutton or Ley.

.

Plibersek presents as being very proficient, but look at the mess with the gold mine. What happened? Where is the transparency? What is the solution? As for the "investment" of taxpayer dollars, solar panels, batteries and steel production are oversupplied markets, again leaving questions as to how the decisions were made.

I'd imagine competence to be more important than appearance, but with the breadth of incompetence I can understand the Albo cult's focus on appearance.

If only it were as simple as "Oooh. Voldemort.". Maybe it is, and Albo will find out soon.

Get your lives back, w..kers, if you ever had lives worth anything. When you start deriding people for the looks you are well and truly finished.

I also like Littleproud. And I like the new rising stars
in the Liberal Party - Keith Wolahan and James Paterson.
Both seem competent as well. I always liked Josh Frydenberg.
But not sure if he'd make a come-back.

Sussan Ley - to me does not appear stable.

As for the Labor side? The only one who comes to mind is -
Penny Wong. I think she's competent. No one else comes to mind.

Interesting as it is Foxy's comment on Peter Dutton looking like Voldemort. JK Rowling at least seems to have woken up to the dangers of Woke Marxism, and has commented on this creepy creeping phenomena multiple times, most recently from memory when she volunteered to go to prison for saying that there are two sexes. Good on her, she sets a good example for us all when confronted by the terror of Woke Marxism, refuse to play, refuse to lie, refuse to be silent. JK Rowling appears to love British culture and history and her Harry Potter stories translate this wonderful history into the language of children. Bless her.

Woke Marxists attempt to destroy culture by using multiculturalism. One way to stop people from making choices that serve themselves, is by providing so many choices that they don't know which ones to make, then they give up. Get people to choke on their choices, or starve them of choices- both strategies are tyranny. People are usually dominated by fear- over thought- this is their slavery. The Marxist university academy rulers then say- our philosophy is to stop slavery- is it??

Normal people should create stories and self publish on the internet- and create so much content that it floods the Woke Marxism out of western culture, as JK Rowling has done.

In JK Rowlings Harry Potter the media is similarly corrupt as in our world, Sirius Black turns out to be a gentle loyal dog as opposed to an evil genocidal mastermind. The well groomed motherly figure of Delores Umbridge (does she remind you of anyone) is evil and seeks to corrupt the school in the face of a compromised and besieged leader overwhelmed by their responsibilities by their mediocrity.

"How lovely to see your happy smiling faces smiling up at me. The ministry of magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance."

Hopefully we will be able to think for ourselves, and train our own "Dumbledore's Army" against tyranny

It actually wasn't me who made the original comments
about Peter Dutton looking like Harry Potter's Voldemort.
It was Tanya Plibersek's children. And the media took
great glee in covering their comments. In my comments
I stressed the fact that looks did not interfere with
the popularity of politicians - as history has shown and
I gave examples - like Winston Churchill.

Anyway, as I keep stating - it will be up to the connections
that politicians can make to reach their voters that will
decide the outcome.

Australians prefer stability. Most of us don't go for demagogues
or autocrats. We certainly don't need our own Trump.
And hopefully Americans will also decide that thay don't need
him as well.

Peter Dutton's relatively small cliques of leftwing deniers
and rightwing admirers over estimate how much he's registered
with the general public. Not many Australians see him as the
country's saviour.

Only time will tell. And predicting anything in politics,
as we've seen from past results is risky at the best of times.

Foxy,

I'm hoping that Albo can find a better inspiration than Tanya's kids. I'd also hope that they haven't been inspiration for other decisions.

https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-143/cover-story-churchill-in-nazi-cartoon-propaganda/

Many of us grew up with Dr Seuss's storybooks. But,
even as adults we can still see the value in his
rhymes. His books were not only directed at children.
They, just like J. K. Rowling's writings teach and
remind us of values and important lessons that have
deep meanings in our lives.

That's why the quotes are still relevant and popular
and they keep making films, plays, and TV specials based
on their books.

To quote Dr Seuss:

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. It's not."

"Think left and think right and think low and think high.
Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try."

"Today you are You that is truer than true.
There is no one alive that is youer than you."

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who
mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

"It's better to know how to learn than to know.

Dear Fester,

I have no way of knowing what our current PM thinks.
All I see is that he appears to be consultative and
does seek and listen to advice. It's up to the voters
to decide if that's enough.

I'm going with policies at the next election. Long-term
ones that make sense to me.

In the meantime, I wait and see what develops.

It's too early to predict anything at the moment.

Foxy just repeated the gossip... well it's common.

Peter Dutton has shown the same courage as Harry Potter in ending the conspiracy of forty years of desert silence on immigration since the Hawke era. You can't control what people say or what they see, but you do what is right in spite of it. Hopefully over time your example will be your legacy, beyond your physical body. We should all ask ourselves. "What is our legacy?" This is our immortality! Or our legend of hope... dared not to be spoken of in the infinite dark cavernous prison of our captors... a spark in the darkness, a keyhole, a doorway, a flood, ... burning the darkness to light. Cycles of darkness and light, fear and thought, the seasons of history in the infinite, our European people stretching back 1 thousand, 10 thousand, more millions of years.

Infinite space and time, the big within the small. Greater omnipotence than the individual atomic grains, but containing our spirit just the same

Hi Foxy,

I can assure you Labor has some very competent people on their side as well. I have known Matt Thistlethwaite, member for Kingsford Smith, my old stamping ground for many years. Having had several personal conversations on issues with Matt, I can truly say; "Matt's no dummy".

There are a lot of half progressive people in both the Labor and Liberal parties, but they so often seem impeded by internal party politics, reluctantly toeing the party line.

Dear Paul,

Toeing the party line is pretty much the way politics
works I guess. Yet, as you point out - we do have people
who've been brave enough to cross the line on important
issues. It's a matter of sifting the sheep from the goats.
Policies do matter to most of us - not so much party
loyalties.

As for the accusations of my "spreading gossip?"

I prefer evidence-based data to gossip. It's an occupational
habit.

Anyhoo, Each to our preferences. Some go for outmoded
tactics and then can't understand why they don't have much
success. The next election will show us all what voters will
or will not tolerate. Lessons to be learnt - for sure.

BTW: HAPPY FATHER'S DAY! To all you dads and grandfathers
out there.

Enjoy your day!

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« … When you start deriding people for the looks you are well and truly finished. »

You sure hit the nail on the head, ttbn. That’s exactly the sort of peremptory judgment I was referring to. Most of us, consciously or unconsciously, tend to make peremptory judgments about people’s “looks”.

Take, for example, the "looks" of the participants in the "LGBT pride parades".

We are all sensitive to the physical appearance of others and influenced by it. Numerous studies have shown that looks affect people’s perception of an individual’s personality traits. They also suggest that, inversely, moral behaviour continuously affects physical looks.

People tend to think that individuals with “good looks” possess more positive personality traits and better moral qualities, such as sincerity, kindness, and trustworthiness. Several studies indicate that people’s moral judgments of individuals are affected by their “looks”.

It is a fact of life that people with “good looks” have a better chance than others of being hired and promoted in the employment market.

Researchers emphasize the importance of affective processes in people’s determination of their moral judgments. It has been argued that moral judgments are not caused by reasoning but by rapid, affectively based intuitions, and that moral behaviour co-varies with emotion more than with reasoning.

Both behavioural and brain imaging evidence have confirmed the role of emotion in moral judgment. Social-emotional processes and cognitive processes are two essential elements of moral judgments. Multiple neuroscientific findings have shown that the brain areas activated during moral judgments involve both areas related to emotion and areas related to cognitive processes, and these two elements have considerable effects on moral judgments.

As for Peter Dutton, he, himself, admitted that he is “not very handsome”, and Malcolm Turnbull, when pressed by reporters, described him as a “thug”.

If we were to combine the two, it would not be too difficult to imagine that someone seeing him on TV or an election poster might get the impression that he is a thug – and vote for somebody else.

.

Talking about leaving a legacy?

Our legacy is much more than material assets. It's about
the way we impact those around us. The way we make others
feel and how we care for people. The decisions we make today
impact our tomorrow and leave an imprint for generations to
come.

Let's ask ourselves - how do we want to be remembered?

Hopefully, the lessons I learned from my parents I did manage
to pass onto my children and they will pass onto theirs.

Dear Banjo,

Judging people by appearances is probably an ingrained
human trait. We all do it. But it's important to
clarify that when we do make snap judgements based on
appearances, this does not excuse or justify discrimination,
or rude or unkind behaviour.

Watching the Para-Olympics is truly an education.

.

Dear Foxy,

.

You wrote :

« Watching the Para-Olympics is truly an education. »
.

It sure is, Foxy. My mind goes back to John and Ilsa Conrads. As you probably know, John suffered from polio as a child and, as we later learned, from bipolar disorder as well. He took up swimming with his little sister, Ilsa, to overcome his handicaps.

Unfortunately, not everyone who does that becomes a multiple Olympic champion as John and Ilsa did. They must have both had exceptional natural talents.

I think that is probably still true today of the athletes currently competing in the 2024 Paris Paralympics – even though only the very best of the best will win a medal.

The fact is that “bad looks” are always a handicap and we have to deal with it. Some manage to overcome it, not by any “natural talent” like the Paralympic athletes, but by what I am tempted to describe as “the beauty of their soul”.

Victor Hugo’s fictional character, Quasimodo (The Hunchback of Notre Dame), and Steven Spielberg’s E.T. (the Extra-Terrestrial) are superb illustrations of the exceptional phenomenon that not all people with “bad looks” are necessarily “bad people”.

As regards Peter Dutton, I can’t say I have ever seen any sign that he might possibly come under this latter category.

Quite the contrary. He seems to be headed in exactly the opposite direction.

.

Dear Banjo,

I remember the big impact that the Konrads had on me
way back then. I identified with them growing up. They
were of Baltic ancestry (Latvian) and it made me believe that
anything was possible for me as well.

Dear Banjo,

"Ugly" characters are important in story telling. They challenge
our societal norms regarding beauty. They show the importance of
inner beauty over external appearance. From Beauty and The Beast,
to the Grinch, Frankenstein, Gollum, even - BFG (Big Friendly Giant).
All remind us that beauty is not merely about appearance, it
encompasses character, heart, and the experiences that shape us.

By embracing these characters in literature, film, and in our lives
we can cultivate a deeper understanding of what it means to be
human.

The musical - "Beauty and The Beast" is coming to Melbourne.
I'm thinking of buying theatre tickets for my grandkids. I'd
like them to get a better understanding of the concept of
beauty - - that can evoke a vivid imagery that goes beyond
physical appearance.

Dear Banjo,

I remember watching the film "The Elephant Man," and
learning of the sad history. It was very moving and
equally sad - how his life ended. It made a deep
impression on me.

.

Dear Foxy,

.

I am pleased and not at all surprised to see that you have a healthy attitude to the problem.

As for Peter Dutton, he has clearly demonstrated his aptitude for the harsh dissuasion and imprisonment in offshore detention centres of unwanted migrants, much to the relief and silent complicity and approval of many of our compatriots.

If that’s what most of us want, that’s what most of us will vote for. But if we don’t, we won’t.

Dutton was not prime minister when he successfully exercised his natural talents as political henchman responsible for preventing and punishing unwanted migrants. He doesn’t need to be prime minister to continue to assume that role with his usual panache.

He is 54 years old and still has a bright future before him.

It’s a lifetime job.

But if we decided to adopt a slightly more lenient attitude to families risking their lives to reach Australia, I guess he could always return to his old job as a policeman.

.

if we decided to adopt a slightly more lenient attitude to families risking their lives
Banjo Paterson,
Of course it is the right thing to do for people seeking peace but try to think why Europeans who also tried to do the right thing are now regretting their kindness.
Don't the increasing demonstration even here give you enough to think about who needs help & who is looking for weakness to exploit to further an agenda ?

G'day BP,

"But if we decided to adopt a slightly more lenient attitude to families risking their lives to reach Australia"

I've had some limited contact with refugees, both here in Brisbane and previously in Sydney. A sister organisation of ours runs a "sailing" experience on Moreton Bay. This allows disadvantaged youth, and at times refugees an opportunity to enjoy an experience they would never previously have had. For the adventurous its sailing, for others its inshore kayaking, or for the faint heart'd the onshore BBQ afterwards.

My point in telling you that is when you meet people who you don't know, and may have certain negative misconceptions about, with close contact, and getting to know them a little, you may realise they are rather different, in a positive way than what you thought. That's true of refugees I have met, they are not the evil "terrorist monsters" some make them all out to be. In fact, although outwardly different, underneath they are not all that removed from you and I.

Dear Banjo,

As far as Peter Dutton is concerned? - I'm sure he'll be
around for some time yet. However, hopefully, not as our
next Prime Minister. "Make Australia Afraid Again," is not
a good catch-phrase that most of us want for this country.

Dear Paul,

There's so much negativity and fear being spread about
refugees and asylum seekers. Which is unfortunate. But it's
nothing new. Most migrants have stories they could tell of
discrimination they experienced and still do. It would be
great if the media published more positivity - but I guess
negativity - sells. We should look at what unites us not
divides us - and that includes our Indigenous people.

What's all this about venting?
I thought the word was vetting?
And mhaze said it succinctly.
"If he was calling for the banning of all people from a particular RACE then that would be racist. He's not. QED."
So well said!
However, I still think Peter is not smart enough to be where he is.
I think his stewardship will lead to less that favourable outcomes.

I think it's more a case of the opponents being scared how well Dutton could possibly run the show. So, discrediting for the sake of discrediting & keeping bandwagons on the roll is the only option they really have as merit is unavailable to them. The term Potato head says more about his opponents mentality than him.
As for the looks department well, I couldn't even get membership to a party. But, give me a potato anytime over a noxious weed !

A bit of irony, its only through immigration that Australia is keeping out of recession. Migrant demand, and their added productivity is keeping Australia in the black. We need to direct those unemployed into positive production! That brings me once more to my Seniors National Service, where I was advocating a "bit of light duties" for the old, a little pot hole repair sort of thing, weed control etc. I now believe in full blown production! We need to build "mouse trap" factories in every city and town, put the elderly to work, with my idea of dormitory camps attached to these new production facilities, the old will become self sufficient and make a positive contribution. Of course we must have reward, yes a beer for the old blokes, and a piece of sponge cake for the ladies during their rest hour on Sunday afternoons, whilst listening to constant replays of uplifting speeches by Fearless Leader (that's me). Sounds great I already have Indy on board! BTW Indy, What's your favourite beer XXXX?

Under Peter Dutton’s leadership, the federal Liberal Party has taken over the NSW self-serving bunch of idiots. Left wing idiots who want to be like Labor for their own personal reasons.

John Howard's silly “broad church” has gone overboard in NSW.

In Queensland too, the same sorts of dipsticks forced Senator Gerard Rennick out of the party for thinking and doing what the Liberal Party is supposed to be about. The “broad church” appears to be experiencing a schism that won’t help it rid Australia of the worst government in Australian history.

The Liberal Party has been in a nose dive since Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison. Dutton is the only one available at the moment to fix it.

Dutton doesn't have to worry himself with a handful of idiots on OLO wondering if he is a “racist” and who are never going to vote for him anyway; he has to convince people who have thrown his party aside because of Turnbull and Morrison that he is not like them, and that he will lick the party back into shape.

It's fair to dismiss the Liberal Party as being out of touch
after its resounding defeats in recent elections both
federally, and in NSW and Victoria. However it is deeply
unsettling of the apparent inability of the Party to learn
from them.

Our democracy depends on a strong and effective opposition
that not only holds the government to account but also offers
an alternative vision for our country with policies that
are needed to achieve that.

Unfortunately Peter Dutton has built a career on being able
to only deliver his "resounding No" on most important issues.
He's found himself in a long-running game of whack-a-mole
with Labor offering more questions every time one was answered.

It's been hard to find any positive signs for the Liberals.
Under Dutton there's been a wipe out the Liberals suffered in
a teal tsunami. And this may well continue under his leadership.

Writing off the Liberal Party is dangerous. The country needs a
strong opposition. But it won't get it under Dutton. Even
Liberals like John Hewson say that Dutton is heading in the
wrong direction. A change is warranted.

Let's listen to John Hewson who lost an election that couldn't be lost, left politics, and went into oblivion. He was one of the first Leftists to infiltrate the Liberal Party.

The main task for the Liberal Party is to get rid of the infiltrators, and the NSW intervention is a good start. The states are the party's biggest problem.

'Advice ' from a communist is not what is needed, and I don't think that Dutton is reading her remarks on OLO.

To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart in 'Casablanca', of all the women in the world, OLO had to get Foxy.

Talking about me being a communist?

I don't read Marx and Lenin.

I understand Marx and Lenin.

I denounce communism and dismiss it as a sad, tragic
and bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are
even now being written.

______________________________________________________________________

As for John Hewson?

He was inexperienced in politics having only entered parliament
in 1987 but he was skilled in his working life as a merchant
banker, a former adviser to John Howard and as a Professor of
Economics at the University of NSW.

He was a visionary who managed to unite both the Liberal and
National Parties around one of the most significant policy
platforms ever, in Australian politics. A 650 page document
titled - "Fightback." Its problem was it pushed too far
into the realms of economic reform. With such a large detailed
target - it became an issue during the election campaign.

However, Hewson's "Fightback" should be viewed as a positive.
Voters deserve to be presented with detailed policy choices
rather than just political spin.

As for my continuing to be on OLO?

You're welcome!

It was former US President Ronald Reagan who said that -
"Communists read Marx and Lenin."

Whereas - anti-communists -
"Understand Marx and Lenin."

Now, for some news:

Former federal Labor leader Bill Shorten is to quit politics
and become Vice Chancellor of Canberra University. The former
federal leader is retiring from federal politics.

He will begin his new role in February next year and will remain
in cabinet until then. After six terms and 17 years in parliament
he said he believed it was time to go.

He now has the opportunity as an educator to help people at
university fulfill their potential and thereby fulfill the
potential of our country. He pointed out that "a nation can
choose its own path. Choosing education, skills, the
re-skilling of Australians, choosing life-long knowledge
acquisition will benefit us all as a nation."

Julie Bishop the former Liberal politician is chancellor at
the Australian National University. She's held that position
since January 2020.

Of course, Foxy might not even be a woman. The only indicator that the person might be a woman is the mania to have the last say.

Given that people can now, in public and on TV, claim to be women when they clearly are not women, you can certainly claim to be anything at all on the internet.

Foxy might not read Marx or Lenin, but he/she has filled his/her head with communist crap, via the ABC, The Guardian and every far Left wacko who puts the stuff on Google, which he/she copies out in lieu of an opinion.

As for (his/her) “continuing to be on OLO?”. Who knows what that's about? Has it been suggested that he/she should cease and desist preaching rubbish reminding us that truly nutty people like him/her are actually on the loose out there, even though most of them never leave their bedrooms and computers, thankfully.

Kudos ttbn.

Do you believe (if yes then you are possibly a Marxist)-
(Some useful information here https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/s-w/ch01.htm)

That aren't willing to investigate the opposite position/ perspective of a debate? (Probably because they aren't able to keep both ideas in their head at the same time. Don't have the ability to "compare and contrast".)
In equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity?
Workers of the world unite?
Cultural hegemony of the institutions?
That believe in DIE, affirmative action, diversity policy rather than policies that make opportunities for everyone, to benefit everyone?
That are against ethnic/ religious/ cultural communities?
That don't believe in property ownership or cultural ownership of territory?
That don't believe that those that do the work own the output of the work?
From those with the ability to those with the need?
That believe that society should be destroyed to stop the slavery of the people?
That Traditional principles are False Consciousness created by Elites to enslave the people?
That business people are the enemy of the people?
That the Traditional hierarchy of the community is irrelevant? (Comparing Marxism to Classical Fascism that considers defense of society and hierarchy as important).
That theory is more important than experiment? (compare Real Politic to Idealism- Kantian Idealism led to Hegelian Naive/ Absolute Idealism led to Marxism and Classical Fascism).
That belief that change is more important than stability?
That believes in activism in society rather than stability?
That believes economic control of the means of production is more important than the health of the relationships between different sections of society?
That believes in destruction of society in order to rebuild it from the ashes?
That believes that rights of extremely small minorities are more important than the rights of the majority?
That believes in importing extremely different people into the community?
That believes that people are the same everywhere in the world?
That believe that there shouldn't be any private ownership of property, or all production should be run or controlled by the nation state?

That believe that creeping unlimited taxation is ok?
That believe that white people and men are the enemy?
That believes that white people (and therefore others) shouldn't have their own nations?
That believe that children should be taught about gay culture over the views of their parents?
That believe that the University Academies should control society?
That believe that ideological principles are more important than the support of these principles by the people?
That believe that the people should be forced to believe if they don't?
That don't believe in live and let live?
That believe that following the letter of principles isn't enough, but should be forced to believe the principles though indoctrination?
That believe in global principles over local principles?
That believe in nurture over nature?
That believe in the dictatorship of academia?
That believe in theory over experiment?
That believe in those that think over those that do?
That believe that those that disagree are always the enemy?

Just a quick list of loosely Woke Marxist items- not a complete list- and addresses the "what" rather than the "why"...

Of course what Woke Marxist's say they believe is different than what they actually believe, there are also Woke Marxist's that are called "useful idiots" that believe the superficial elements of Woke Marxism without deep understanding.

Most people know when they hear Woke Marxism.

It's just occurred to me:

Bond University is committed to being a learning and
working environment that is a place of safety and respect
and has a zero tolerance policy on harassment.

Perhaps Peter Dutton may one day soon be able to be offered
the position of managing the university's safety and security.
He's well qualified for the job - being an ex-policeman.

cont'd ...

Making up lists about Marxism?

OK. I can play with lists too:

READ THIS OUT LOUD!

This is this cat
This is is cat
This is how cat
This is to cat
This is keep cat
This is an cat
This is idiot cat
This is busy cat
This is for cat
This is forty cat
This is seconds cat

NOW GO BACK AND READ THE
THIRD WORD IN EACH LINE!