Hi Graham,

Thanks for the link.

I think that Hitchens threw in the towel long ago; even so, his despondence is understandable.

When we hear the truism that ‘the West no longer wants to defend its values’, we should know that it is the ‘conservative’ West that has turned to jelly.

The Leftists never have been, never will be, interested in Western values, unless it is to destroy them.

The fact that someone like mikk can be so ignorant of conservatism is the fault of conservatives themselves. Too many CINOs, perhaps.

Hi Yuyutsu
By progress I sort of mean improvement. Making something better than it was. Finding and learning new ways and things.
By equality I mean everything the world has to offer being shared fairly and not allowing some to take everything for themselves.

Thanks for that link Graham it was an interesting read and sort of answered a few of my questions.
I dont think many of the things mentioned like "love of country, love of family, love of beauty, love of liberty" are exclusively conservative. Everyone I know loves those things. The author expresses regret for the olden days of better manners, less divorce, old houses and comfy trains and I sort of understand what he means but it also seems like he forgets/doesn't know the horrors that also went on back then. The domestic abuse, the pollution and privation, the lack of education and the brutal way the old orders came about and were perpetuated.

So TTBN enlighten me with what YOU think. Sorry I should have specified I am interested in what the people on OLO think. If you disagree with what I think then explain why or is abuse all you have?

Mikk

Your abusive and ignorant rant against conservatives makes it clear that you are not interested in what other people think - you have made up your mind - so I'm not going to enable your vile nonsense further.

Struth, based on the list of things conservatives supposedly support according to mikk, I guess they are also in favour of drowning little kittens and banning Sunday picnics.

Since I was the one who wrote the line mikk started the thread with, I'll give my version....

When asked to give a concise explanation of MY conservatism, I'll describe myself as a Chesterton's Fence conservative...

"There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”

Conservatives aren't opposed to change, just opposed to change that is borne of ignorance or lack of thought. For example, there was time when society looked at the social mores against single motherhood and decided that it was unfair and unnecessary. So the state determined to become the surrogate financial provider to single motherhood via pensions. The true conservative opposed this because of the detrimental effect on the family. The result has been several generations of kids condemned to poverty and dysfunctional families at the hands of single-motherhood. If you want to find the origin of the current DV hysteria, look at the attacks on the family that occurred in the 1970s.

/cont

/cont

Family is the bedrock of the conservative's view of society. A true conservative is in favour of anything that enhances the family and is opposed to anything that reduces the central role of family in society.

Conservatives are in favour of unrestricted free speech; opposed to any form of governmental censorship. In favour of democracy; in favour of small government - government that does its core functions and nothing more.

Because property and property rights is the essence of freedom, conservatives favour capitalism and wealth creation. They favour a fair distribution of the nation's wealth recognising that doesn't necessarily mean an equal distribution.

When I talk of right-of-centre parties returning to conservativism, I mean returning to these values. In the current context of Australia, a conservative party would be opposed to the moves against the supermarkets; wouldn't have supported the attack on free speech following the Lakemba stabbing; would be pushing to significant reductions in government and government spending.