. February 2022 Chinese warship directs laser at an ADF aircraft.
. June 2022 Chinese fighter jet drops chaff in front of ADF aircraft.
. November 2023 Chinese warship injures ADF navy divers with sonar.
. May 2024 Chinese fighter drops flares in front of ADF Helicopter.

According to Peter Layton (‘Deterring China’s military violence against Australia’) repeating an aggressive act four times “shows intent”.

“It is now plausible that the Chinese military’s grey zone actions may in the near future seriously injure, or even kill, Australian military personnel”.

Layton suggests that China may be working under “misapprehensions” given that its aggression so far has been met with only “verbal rebukes”.

Some “tangible threat” is needed. Expelling some consulate staff would be a good start. Other countries do it. Why not Australia? Banning Chinese investment in Australia, and sanctions on Chinese imports could also work - particularly raw materials that allow China to make cheap things to sell back to us. The reintroduction of SEATO is another suggestion. We do have allies, apart from the US, like Japan, the Philippines, South Korea in the region, also constantly bullied by the Communists.

“ … China’s growing aggression is an international concern”. Australia is not on its own.

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/deterring-china-s-military-violence-against-australians

ttbn,

Maybe we should keep out of China's backyard, its called the South CHINA Sea, not the South AUSTRALIAN Sea. As a committed lackey of US imperialism the Noalition tried your idea of a bit of "shirt fronting" of the Chinese on Americas behalf, and look where that got us!

Paul

Sensible comments and opinions are always welcome, but you are just a self-embarrarrising idiot.

I'm reminded of another gutless and gormless “leader” , something like the lot in Canberra.

General George Elphinstone, in 1842 Afghanistan ignored the brutal murders of his senior officers and men by an Afghan chieftain; believed the chieftain's assurance that he and 16,000 or so thousand troops and civilians would have free passage out of Afghanistan to safety in India.

As a consequence of the general's stupidity and naivete, even during the Afghanistans’ harassment and killing of the British as they struggled through appalling winter conditions to get away, one person - just a single human British person of the 16,000 who left tried to leave Afghanistan, reached India.

Elphinstone found excuses for not retaliating when he should have. Just as our cowardly leaders are doing now. Oh, hang on, ours don't even make excuses: Albanese just refuses to ‘discuss’ such things with us.

No ADF personnel have been killed - so far. What will Albanese do when it happens. Have a chat with Xi? Will he speak about the four incidents to the Chinaman who is due here shortly? Will we ever know?

Given the contempt with which China treats Australia, it is a disgrace that their Communist officials are allowed - probably invited - to come here.

"Given the contempt with which China treats Australia, it is a disgrace that their Communist officials are allowed - probably invited - to come here."

“Jaw, jaw is better than war, war.” Churchill (maybe).

mhaze

I believe it was actually Harold Macmillan who said that.

Fair enough. But Albanese and his crew have been found not to be doing that. There was a government department sqeak (so they say), but the bloke who should be doing the jawing, Albanese, is not doing it. A proven liar, he now is now firmly a 'no comment' man. And we have all seen him fawning over, and pawing, the Communist Dictator Xi, as if they were best friends.

Albanese takes none of a Prime Minister's obligations seriously, the most obvious example of that being the defence of Australia, Australians and our defence personnel.

"I believe it was actually Harold Macmillan who said that."

Yeah, well there's some doubt and dispute. Which is why I wrote Churchill (maybe).

Who said what is probably unimportant to the subject. Whatever foreign PM, dead and gone, said is no help to the China/Australia relationship.

ttbn,

Not idiotic enough to vote for One Nation like on forum idiot. These people who live in the 19th century like SOME old farts, they think the way to treat China is with the tried and true, "Gun Boat Mentality", got news for you, that might have worked in 1824 but not in 2024. What's the relevance of the General Elphinstone story, other that being boring it's no relevance what so ever, just living in the past are we.

Australian vessels sailing through international waters isn't even close to Gunboat Diplomacy. Paul again reveals his historic ignorance.

Yes, they are international waters. Just because China says they belong to them doesn't make it so although an old Trotsky-ite like Paul will always adhere to whatever the CCP says - no thought required.

OTOH, we just have to assume that the childish practices of the Chinese via a vis those vessels in international waters simply reflects their innate inferiority complex which manifests in these silly displays. Its good that we be the adults here and treat the Chinese like we'd treat a child throwing a tantrum. There's no value in reacting or over-reacting. Just let it through to the keeper.

"Paul again reveals his historic ignorance" (mhaze)

Why stop at ignorance of history; he is just ignorant, period.

For years, all he has done is try to put people down, and all he has done is make a fool of himself.

He is the original wankerfromBoolammakanker.

Hi Paul,

I didn't know you're a Trotsky-ite?

However, if you are, you're in good company.
Apparently Peter Hitchens was once a godless Trotskyist.
Perhaps lefties turn right in old age?

Now to be serious. SBS News tells us that:

Regarding China's behaviour in the South China Sea.

One of the messages coming out of the Association of
Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit on its final day,
hosted by PM Antony Albanese in Melbourne was:

"We stand for a region where differences are
managed through respectful dialogue not the
threat or use of force." the
leaders said in a joint statement.

Foreign Minister Penny Wong stated in an interview:

"Rather than thinking about what might or might not happen,
we should focus on what we want to protect, what we want to
ensure in order to preserve peace, stability, and prosperity."

The Prime Minister stressed that:

"I am concerned and Australia is concerned about any unsafe
and destabilizing behaviour in the South China Sea. It is
dangerous and it creates risks of miscalculations, which can
then lead to escalation."

It was therefore for that reason that the ASEAN leaders issued
their joint statements regarding the benefits of having the
South China Sea as a sea of peace, stability, and prosperity.

"We encourage all countries to avoid any unilateral actions
that endanger peace and security in the region."

"Southeast Asian countries WILL stand together with Australia
against Chinese influence and aggression."

mhaze,

Based on what you say, then you would have no problem with China sailing warships through international waters in Bass Strait. I certainly would.

"Apart from mainland and Tasmanian coastal waters, most of our territorial sea in the strait is around islands stretching across the eastern half. So the majority of Bass Strait belongs to the world"

WankerfromBoolammakanker?

Is that the same guy as the:

BoganfromLogan?

BTW:

Ever heard the bush music of
Bullamankanka?

Hi Foxy,

These old blokes are laughable, they live in a time warp where they think time stands still. They are clueless, like certain members of the Noalition, when it comes to the complex China/Australia relationship. These guys think Australia should play the "tough guy", and China will give in and beg for mercy, well that's not going to happen in their lifetime. They believe the ace in the hole is America, well they could be disappointed with that, America will serve American interests first, Australian interests will be well down the list.

Hi Paul,

Don't worry about these "old" men.

Their behaviour is understandable.

After all they were living and grew up in a time when
Australia was described as - the most effluent
nation on Earth. For them times have not changed.

Ttbn- Thanks for the thread.
Yes Chinese dominance displays. As Sun Tzu says those that advance will retreat. I hear that Chinese defecate on the streets of Hong Kong as a form of dominance display- there are photos- I wouldn't expect that these are poor Chinese- travel is restricted.

I suppose that 'he who defecate's last defecate's the longest'.

Hong Kongers irked by mainland Chinese habits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHkwkcGmHP0

Amusing.

Most of the Marxist's have some sort of 'loyalty test'. Remember the 'struggle sessions'. 1984 wasn't supposed to be a training manual but a warning.

Some talk about Dante's 'Divine Comedy' about hell.

G'day CM.

Perhaps Albanese is just incapable of expressing himself well enough to put a flea in the ears of a few Communist Chinese.

Christopher Dore says of Albanese, “We have never had a prime minister so incapable of stringing words together with clarity and precision.”

Ok on his own terms, scripted; but he is the Joe Biden of Australia otherwise. A “gibberer”.

Prone to talking nonsense, barely able to string a sentence together. “Increasingly incomprehensible”.

Compared to other Prime Ministers from both parties, Albanese is a dud when it comes to public speaking. That’s almost unheard of in a politician.

And, he can't give a straight answer under pressure. How the hell did he ever get to lead a political party when he can't talk! Is the ALP so bad that he's all they had?

The often irritating but sharp Bronwyn Bishop often says that in all the years Albanese has been in politics, nobody ever thought of him as leadership material.

https://thenightly.com.au/opinion/the-front-dore-prime-minister-anthony-albanese-is-australias-equivalent-to-joe-biden-c-15022142

ttbn,

What a surprise, a Murdoch stooge saying something bad about a Labor PM, wonders never cease. This same turkey, like you, think The Lovely Pauline is Wonder Woman!

CM

A NS with a rabid fear of the unnamed, unseen Communists. I once asked you to name Australia's top Marxists, you claimed were all around us, you couldn't name one individual, not one. Talk about believing in reds under the beds, you are a classic. BTW elsewhere you prattle on about the NDIS, we all know from history how your folk hero's dealt with the disabled. In the end National Socialism was responsible for the deaths of 60 million people. The Communists about as many, that's 120 million dead due to crazy ideology.

ttbn- Hope you're well.
As far as Albanese's situation.
Those that show themselves as weak negotiators will be routed.

"Apparently Peter Hitchens was once a godless Trotskyist."

So was Trotsky.

"you would have no problem with China sailing warships through international waters in Bass Strait. I certainly would."

No I'd have no problem. I don't know why you would. Don't you trust them? We know that the Chinese often place surveillance ships just outside our territorial waters especially when we are doing military manoeuvres. Again.. no problems with that.

"America will serve American interests first, Australian interests will be well down the list."

But what if Australian and US interests align? But its funny having Paul think he's somehow a deep thinker on this when in fact he's just regurgitating cold war rhetoric of his youth.

" the most effluent
nation on Earth."

Those dyslexic fingers again. Foxy?

ttbn

I'm not sure whether you think Ukraine relevant, but I would suggest it is being closely observed by China. There has been speculation that western democracies are inherently flawed, which inevitably leads to moral and economic failure (I often read "we're all going to hell" comments on OLO and think it a facet of human nature.). In contrast, authoritarian regimes are argued to be more stable and capable of responding to problems faster, so better in the long run.

I suspect that Putin believed the narrative and thought that the west would be too divided and slow footed to stop him taking Ukraine. While Putin was correct in the short term, with limitations and delays to aiding Ukraine, ultimately the action has led to a unity and resolve that Russia's unprovoked war will fail. That will make China reconsider the degeneracy of the west and the value of military aggression.

CM,

I'm fine, thank you. You will note that the resident idiot is still banging on, producing nothing useful; his girlfriend chips in with third-hand poetry and hard-Left propaganda. We really must ignore the fools.

As for Albanese, at election time he said, “If I become prime minister, I’ll accept responsibility each and every day, not always seek to blame others”.

That was his first lie, and he hasn't stopped since.

Fester,

I have no interest in Ukraine, and China is an ally of Russia's.

China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea are the evil conglomerate that the West is facing - possibly in a world war. While there is nothing certain about WW3, the possibility of it will be there as long as the West keeps showing that it is not really interested in defending itself any more. The real enemy is not this evil conglomerate; the enemy is within - in Australia's case, within Canberra.

Democracy is not flawed; the people not willing to defend it are flawed. And authoritarian regimes might look stable on the surface, but they are ruled with fear and brutality, because there is always resentment and yearning for freedom.

Did you know that there are regular attempts on the life of Xi Jinping? You won't hear that in the regular media. You won't hear that Xi is an alcoholic either. Just imagine the nightmares that go on in his head that are responsible for his irrational and brutish behaviour that results in people ‘disappearing’ all the time.

That's the sort of maniac that Australian politicians seem to be just as frightened of as are a billion Chinese people.

We need to concentrate on our own defence and our own region before it is too late. Ukraine is not our problem. If we don't start doing something right now, Australia will be looking like Ukraine. Our enemies need our resources, not us.

Every day I get up with good intentions and a great
attitude. Then I make the mistake of going on the forum
and reading the negativity.

Life is too short to spend precious time trying to explain
things and convince people who want to live in doom and
gloom. I'm starting to see that we can't expect to live
a positive life if we associate with negative people.

Cutting negative people from our lives doesn't mean we
hate them. It simply means we respect ourselves.

I'm out.

ttbn,

'We need to concentrate on our own defence and our own region before it is too late."

Exactly, but how might Australia fare on its own without a nuclear deterrent? Much worse than Ukraine would do alone against Russia I think. Russia would have rolled though Ukraine in a short time were it not for western nations standing united. Instead, much of Russia's military is destroyed and they lack air defence for their military airfields.

I see that Foxy thinks it the best option to stick her head in the sand. You are far too intelligent and well read to do the same.

Out of interest, Ukraine is getting over 30 gigawatts of power from Europe to keep the lights on. Do you think they will restore their energy grid with wind and solar as it is supposed to be the cheapest and best option according to the CSIRO?

Fester

My worry is how would Australia fare, period; with or without nuclear defence. At the moment we have very little of anything to defend ourselves with, including personnel. Our defence has been neglected for at least 20 years, but here we are now facing a situation which knowledgeable people say is similar to that of almost 80 years ago. We have just honoured DDay, a reminder that will be ignored again.

AUKUS, sometime, never. We should be ready now, not a decade or more away. There are things that we can manufacture now, ourselves, but that might upset China!

Australia is a democratic, peace-loving country; but other countries are not.

In the meantime, we have to hope that the U.S. and other allies who take defence seriously will come to our rescue. But, we know what Donald Trump, if he becomes President, thinks about countries who don't pull their weight and rely on America.

Too many people put their heads in the sand. Reality is just too scary for them. ‘Heads-in-sand’ pretty much sums up Australia today.

What happens to Ukraine is anyone's guess. I'm surprised that they have lasted this long. I think it will be some time before they think about their energy network, and it might be up to Russia. Renewable energy is madness for any country, and they wouldn't be getting power from Europe if the Europeans, unlike Australia, had not admitted that that wind and solar was a fairytale.

It's a good thing that Ukraine can't rely on us for power - or much else after their request for our unwanted helicopters was denied.

Foxy thinks that anyone who disagrees with her, or more precisely, that she disagrees with is being negative.

I'm positive she's wrong.

mhaze,

I have a problem with any nation including our own, which engages in sabre-ratting and warmongering. Acts of intimidation such as sailing war ships close to other nations in a show of belligerency is dangerous for peace and stability.

No, I don't claim to be a deep thinker, but unlike YOU I do think about these things. I don't simply carry on like YOU with your trained monkey mimicry of the words of the Dangerous Doctor Donald.

BTW; Are you still claiming China has a "bigger" navy than America? AND you never answered my question, do you adorn yourself with mock buffalo horns and paint you face red, white and blue? How often do you dress up like that?

Thanks ttbn. You're right that we need to focus on the Marxist's in Australia, rather than the Marxist's in China, but they are related issues. And even if it may be difficult to track the money or the influence it is probably still there. And ASIO has been warning politician's and others for some time about CCP Chinese Communist Party having influence at Australian Universities. There was even the ironic CCP controlled Confucius Institute educating our high school children. There appears to relatively free flow between China and Australia. A classic description of a leaky intelligence environment.

mhaze,

I think it's called toxic positivity.

ttbn,

Every nation has been guilty of letting its defence force decline, including America. Trump's criticism of nations not pulling their weight is valid, but Ukraine has changed that. I'd also point out that the United States has spent many times the amount supporting Ukraine on pointless conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan, so at least their money is supporting people who value democratic freedoms, and destroying Russia's terrorist military is a damn good thing for the world. My guess is that Russia is fast running out of equipment, but I'd be more optimistic if Ukraine could stop the heavy barrage of glide bombs. Unless they can do that they will not make substantial advances.

Taiwan stands to benefit from Ukraine, both strategically and technologically, and I also think it less likely that the aggression of China's navy will be ignored.

I like to think of the wisdom of a taxi driver from Bangladesh who told my sister that people are the same the world over. It gives me cause to be optimistic, although not to a toxic degree.

"BTW; Are you still claiming China has a "bigger" navy than America? "

I already PROVED to you that that was the case. You even conceded it by rapidly changing the subject. Why do you want to revisit this when you ended up looking so foolish last time?

As to the buffalo horns thing...you're an idiot.

"Acts of intimidation such as sailing war ships close to other nations in a show of belligerency is dangerous for peace and stability."

No. When one nation, in total contravention of all international law, asserts that international water now belong to them, it is imperative that others dispute that lest that imperialism be achieved. When China claims waters as their own without any legitimacy, we and all law abiding nations must dispute that. Its a bit like when the facistic censors of the Albanese government decreed that we weren't allowed to watch the preacher being stabbed, it was incumbent on all freedom-loving Australians to immediately watch it.

Its how peace is maintained. This'll go over your head, but history shows that letting totalitarian states get away with aggression is never the path to peace, but instead accelerates the road to war.

mhaze

That's right fella, China has a larger navy than US, China has 100 row boats US only has 99 battle ships, yep the Chinese navy is defiantly larger. BUT neither can compare to the Royal Navy of Tovala which has no row boats, and defiantly no battle ships, but does have over 200 canoes. you're an idiot. The buffalo horns and painted face, that was the outfit of the lead Trumpster during the Jan 6th insurrection in Washington, you being the lead Trumpster in Aussie I thought maybe you're wearing the same outfit, painted face and all.

This was what I told you a few months back....

"Counting all major surface ships ,aircraft carriers, ocean-going amphibious ships, submarines, mine warfare ships, and fleet auxiliaries as well as patrol combatants and craft that carry anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) the CCP has 440 vessels compared to the US 295. Those are 2020 figures. The gap would be bigger now."

Whereupon you immediately tried to change the subject. Still it was a few months back so who could expect you to remember that, eh? Now you are just trying to play the fool (and I have to admit you're very good at it) by talking about canoes!!

OTOH in the mindset where the totalitarian CCP are peace-loving pacifists, it just isn't possible to believe that they are involved in a massive military build-up, is it Paul?

"you being the lead Trumpster in Aussie ..""
I doubt that. BTW did you ever get around to explaining why you don't support Trump given that he is supported by the majority of the US working class and you preen yourself as being a friend of the downtrodden?

mhaze,

I don't support Trump, and in fact I don't support Biden, I don't support any American politicians as a rule, nor Chinese ones for that matter. As the brainwashed Trumpster, seems you believe there is some mandatory requirement for YOU to support Trump. News for you fella, your support for the Dangerous Doctor Donald is worth 4/5th of FA to anyone, including Trump.

Even Dutton believes it is important for the government to raise concerns and grievances with China.

He is not talking about “shirt fronting”, but speaking up for Australia as any PM with a backbone would. He will be raising the issues in his meeting with the Chinese premier on Monday, even if it's just too much for Albanese. He refused to answer outright when asked if he would raise the issue of Taiwan, however. Like all of the political class, trading with the Communists seems to be more important than human rights and the Communist military threat to a democratic country.

Dutton still has a long way to go to show that he is a good replacement for Albanese. We are still stuck with the ‘bit-better-than-Labor’ mantra.

China will always be a poisoned chalice for Australia given our entire political class's obsession with money/trade over the realities of a disgusting Communist dictatorship that no self-respecting democracy should have a bar of.

"I don't support Trump, and in fact I don't support Biden,"

Yep. If you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to make a choice, you can't be wrong, n'est pas? OTOH you're opinion then has all the substance of a fart in a strong breeze.... and is just as welcome.

Dropped the whole Chinese navy thing...again. Good call.

_____________________________________________________________________

"Even Dutton believes it is important for the government to raise concerns and grievances with China."

Its always right, never wrong, to talk to others - even rivals.

"China will always be a poisoned chalice for Australia given our entire political class's obsession with money/trade over the realities of a disgusting Communist dictatorship that no self-respecting democracy should have a bar of."

In the same way as it was wrong for Australia to mix up economics and politics in regards to the old South African regime, its also wrong to confuse our need to trade with China with our need to be cognisant of the threat China represents to our civilisation.
Sell 'em all they'll take, remembering always who we are dealing with.ie after you've shaken hands, count your fingers.

Always remember that one of the reasons Japan felt the need to invade South-East Asian in 1941 was the fact that we and the US has tried to sever them from global trade. We should learn from past lessons.

There are loads of other countries to trade with, none of whom get away with beaking all the WTO rules that China signed up to, but has ignored ever since.

Communist China is an evil outlaw that we did well enough without until the U.S. talked everyone into letting them in, with the belief that China would 'westernise'.

Instead the West, particularly Australia, is getting more like China under Green Labor; and nothing will charge under the wet Liberals.

Communist China is definitely not a great mate to have.

China provides a mere 8% of the UN's overall budget, but its influence is very disproportionate to that measly contribution. For example, China runs 4 of the 15 specialised agencies, while the U.S., which contributes 3 times more than China and more than 185 out of the 193 member states COMBINED, leads just one.

Also, the weaky-wet UN turns a blind eye to breaches of the WTO charter; ignores Chinese slave labour, hidden subsidies, its intellectual property theft, and market restrictions against other members.

No wonder Communist China treats piss weak Australia and its helpless government the way it does.

And how is that?

Please explain.

Currently the Premier of the People's Republic of
China Li Qiang is a guest of the Australian Government.

It's the first visit to Australia by a Chinese Premier
since 2017.

The relationship between China and Australia is a
challenging one. However being part of the multi-lateral
organizations such as APEC, East Asia Summit and the G20
helps maintain our two way trade stability.

China is our largest trading partner. The government
currently is maintaining it's position on China very
carefully while looking after our own sovereignty and
stability.

Hi Foxy,

China is very important both economically and strategically to Australia, the negativity from the far right poster is counter productive nonsense and would not serve Australia's interests at all. One of the better achievements of the Albanese government has been their foreign policy, which in general I agree with. Although I believe we should be far more independent in regards to our relationship with the United States. I'm totally against the purchase of nuk subs, I see that as a belligerent act on our part, costly and ineffective.

Hi Paul,

I watched the Insiders last night. The Foreign Minister
Penny Wong was interviewed. She explained Australia's
position regarding China. It made sense for Australia
to maintain a balanced position yet still keep its
sovereignty. We're in good hands with her as Foreign
Minister - who's treading carefully yet maintaining
our interests. She's no fool or hot head. Which is what
Australia needs. She also stressed the importance of
Australia maintaining alliances in our own region.

"We're in good hands with her as Foreign
Minister - ..."

Whenever I think of Albo appointing Wong as Foreign Minister I'm reminded of Eric Cartman aka Kathleen Kennedy casting Disney films....

"Put a chick in it and make her gay....and lame".
http://youtu.be/gtx0QV4-VxY

The real problem is our own gutless, useless political class, sucking up to China for just about everything to do with trade, instead of getting out of the unnatural relationship between a democracy and a Communist dictatorship. Labor and the Coalition are in lockstep on China, totally bereft of courage and morality.

mhaze,

Being a Trump supporter of course you're all about
appearance and very little substance.

You message is loud and clear regarding our Foreign
Minister Penny Wong.

Our country however, is not the Miss Universe Pageant - which
by the way -
in itself needs to modernize. And you are behind the
times in your thinking.

As for China?

China is Australia's largest two-way trading partner.
It's also an important source of foreign investment.
Foreign investment in Australia means greater
infrastructure, more productivity, and more jobs for
Australians.

Penny Wong also tell us - that Australia is in a
state of permanent contest with China.
She realizes the challenges.

She tell us that previous governments were inactive
in maintaining Australia's influence in the region.
However, she explains that her government is working
in making Australia the Pacific's number one security
partner.

She says that our government understands:

"the importance for Australia to engage in the Pacific.
We understand that it matters to Australian stability,
security, and prosperity in the region and that's why we
want to be more involved members of the Pacific family."

A nest of spies was thrown out of Australia, not a murmur out of the forums Usual Suspects on that one. BTW they weren't Chinese, they were from our "good friend' India.

mhaze,

Your pin up boy Bruce Lehrmann is being kept very busy these days.... hot on the heels of the BH verdict, that a judge said he was a rapists, the lad is defending two charges of rape in Queensland. All in a days work for an Ex-Liberal staffer, would you agree?

ttbn,

Very hard to find the One Nation policy on China and Taiwan, maybe they have a one nation policy, can you fill me in? BTW, its difficult to find any policy for anything from the One Nation ratbags. Do they have policy?

"Our country however, is not the Miss Universe Pageant "

Oh dear..it seems the joke went sailing over your head.

Just to put in terms you might understand, Wong is a token appointment...female, gay, Asian background. She ticks all the victimhood boxes which is much more important than the fact she's out of her depth.

"Your pin up boy Bruce Lehrmann"
Making stuff up again Paul? A full time job for you.

But on the rape charges, the last women to claim without evidence that he raped her got paid mega-millions by Albo to thank her for her services to the cause. When you do that others are also going to want to get their noses in the trough.

Tried to find One Nation policy, all I got from their official website was a silly video mocking Steve Irwin. This is the ratbags and fruitcakes our old forumites think we should vote for.

mhaze, "female, gay, Asian background." Well Wong is a very successful Australian in her own right, more than can be said for a couple of pin ups of yours, the declared rapist Lehrmann and The Lovely Pauline. You do have an excuse, after all you are a Trumpster, we have to make allowances for that.

"a couple of pin ups of yours, the declared rapist Lehrmann and The Lovely Pauline"

Well I've never expressed any sort of support for either of those.

Paul just fabricates again. But I guess if you can't talk sense in the real world your only option is to talk nonsense in the clown world.

BTW the cartoon you mention wasn't about Steve Irwin, it was about Robert Irwin. It was sending up an advert campaign he's doing for the QLD government. When satire from those you consider to be your intellectual inferiors goes over your head, its time to give it away.

Thanks mhaze,

Steve Irwin, Robert Irwin, I'm not familiar with Robert Irwin although in the dopey cartoon there was some similarity between the two. I assume Robert Irwin is related to Steve Irwin. Seems you are in the know on One Nation policy, as it extends to nothing more than silly cartoons.

I believed you argued strongly, that Lehrmann is an innocent man, just a coincidence he's up on two more rape charges. As for The Lovely Pauline, like you she is a devout Trumpster, a kindred sprite so to speak, with lots of "good" policy you should support, including the stand out policy of silly cartoons. Neither are favourites of yours? Okay.

Pauline Hanson and One Nation don't have anything to do with China. In fact, they don't have much to do with anything, given their microscopic support. The only two parties whose policies have any significance are Liberal and Labor. That’s a problem, but it's the way things are.

As usual, a couple of morons manage to hijack a topic for their own purposes. There is not much point in starting a topic when you know turdbrains are going to do that. Small wonder only a handful of posters bother to kick anything off.

I will move on, leaving the two combatants to their pissing competition; but with my opinion on the Pauline Hanson Irwin cartoon. I think the cartoon was stupid, like most of them. Young Irwin is a pansy compared with his father, but he doesn't deserve to be used as he was. I can understand his being upset. Even so, it would be more manly of him to get over it. He probably has an ambulance-chasing lawyer pulling his strings.

Pauline Hanson has nothing to do with China?

Didn't she warn that Australia will be over-run with Asians?

_________________________________________________________________

mhaze,

You claim that Penny Wong was a "token" appointment?

For a "token" appointment - she's come up with real
achievements.

How about -

Julie Bishop.

Amanda Vanstone.

Were they also "tokens?"

What about the men?

Alexander Downer Jr. Joe Hockey, George Brandis,
Tim Fischer, Brendan Nelson, to name just a few.

Or are only women "tokens" in whatever field thay should
choose - women like Julia Gillard, Gladys Berejiklian, Anastacia
Palaszcuk, Bronwyn Bishop, Kristina Keneally, Tanya Plibersek,
and so on.

We get it.

Relax and continue to blow bubbles.

Foxy,

Just listing all the previous foreign ministers doesn't really tell us anything about Wong. Many of these others also got the job for reasons other than their foreign policy background. Many were given the job as sops for failing to get the top job. Wong got it because the ALP needs to have people from the correct victim groups in apparent control. Woman, Asian, lesbian....how could she not succeed in the modern ALP?

But as a foreign minster she's done nothing of note. Sure she mouths motherhood statements for the flying-monkeys to swoon over, but great insights are beyond her. As you'd expect.

But she ain't no Evatt, Evans (Gareth), Hayden or even Rudd.

ttbn said- "Small wonder only a handful of posters bother to kick anything off. "

Answer- Whenever I've tried to create a new thread in the past few years it hasn't appeared as far as I know. I managed to get one thread through on Pauline Hanson early on. At some stage I'll try again and see how it goes. There may be good reason if my threads have been knocked on the head. Generally I'm happy with GY's management of OLO, and understand that I can't always get what I want. And sometimes what I want isn't what I need

CM

I don't know why that would. I had one knocked back once, but Graham contacted me. If I remember rightly it was because a very similar post reached him first. Try again. We need more non-Left posters. The couple of hard-line Leftist always banging on put people off, I suspect.

Perhaps GY contacted me and there was a problem with my email.

CM,

Maybe this GY person is one of those communists you're always banging on about, reds under the beds and all that. Oh! Pauline Hanson here she is again, but just maybe your topics were all trash and not worth discussing, hummm I don't know, if your posts are anything to go on then that might be the reason for your non-approval.

"I'm happy with GY's management of OLO, and understand that I can't always get what I want. And sometimes what I want isn't what I need." Boohoo, how sycophantic can you get.

CM

"And sometimes what I want isn't what I need"

I have just one word for you " and that was "dead"".

But keep at it CM. I was assured by the girl at the reception that if you keep trying "Well, you might find You get what you need"

CM

Do you really want to contribute when you get nutjob responses like those two? The site is dominated by a Green mental case; a woman who wouldn't last 5 minutes with other women who would rip strips of her, and mhaze, who is sort of conservative but is silly enough to argue with the aforementioned weirdos.

Why would you bother?

mhaze,

It's so disappointing that you still maintain
your half-baked stance regarding Senator Penny Wong.

Penny Wong is nobody's victim.

And, she was not a "token" appointment for the job of
Foreign Minister.

The following link explains her background, qualifications,
and vast experience.

http://foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong

Read up on her impressive qualifications, experience,
and background.

She came to this country when she was eight years old.
A Chinese Malaysian father. An English Aussie mother.

Her qualifications and work experience speaks for itself.
Including her ability to continue to get re-elected.
She's a popular politician.

BTW - she served as Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister for
six years before the election of the Albanese Government
in 2022 when she was appointed Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Your claims regarding Senator Wong does you no credit.
It's not a good look.
Stop lowering the bar.

And yet Foxy you haven't and can't point to any outstanding achievement from her. Just asserting it, especially when its you asserting it, isn't a means to convince.

She's a so-so politician who is where she is because she ticks all the right boxes - woman, Asian, lesbian.

An outstanding Australian Foreign Minister has an outsized standing in the foreign arena - Gareth Evans, Evatt, Rudd. She is none of that

"mhaze, who is sort of conservative but is silly enough to argue with the aforementioned weirdos."

Yes I understand ttbn. The world would be so much better if we all just agreed with you.

BTW, I'm not a "sort of conservative". I refuse to be categorised. I hold a range of views from a range of perspectives. See for example my views on drugs that Paul found too radical for his understanding. I should also note that I have not voted Liberal since 2013 and see little prospect of doing so whilst ever the Liberals remain illiberal. I call myself a classical liberal (small l), not a conservative.

mhaze,

For your self-proclaimed "astute observer," status -
you're not so "astute" when it comes to Senator
Wong. Especially if you've read her achievements,
qualifications, vast experiences in
her occupations before entering Federal Parliament
and vast achievements since entering Federal Parliament.

There is no way that Senator Wong 's appointment as
Foreign Minister be described as a "token"
appointment.

But whatever blows your sails.

I keep inviting you to tell us about these wonderous achievements by Wong.

You keep telling me they exist but continue to fail to find even one.

Look, she's reasonably competent in her job and can mouth the positions her department delineate for her with reasonable fervour and conviction. But that's it. And all those other Foreign Minsters you previous denigrated were just as competent at carrying forth the department's views as Wong. No better, no worse.

mhaze,

I've given you all the information that I have on
Senator Wong. If after reading it - you can't see
what she has achieved in her life - prior to
entering Federal Politics, and since. Then I can't
help you. And there's nothing more to say.

Cheers.

I agree. You've said nothing about her achievements as a Foreign Affairs Minister and there's nothing more to be said.

Glad you caught up.

Well Foxy I expected more after your reference to Penny Wong.
Except for what might have been a brief period as an independant
lawyer, she has only the union/labour party experience and no real
work world employment.
This is the image of most politicians.
Union official, Party Office assistant/political advisor etc etc.

At least Peter Dutton spent time on the beat.
I bet other polies find that they cannot just blah blah him.

The kind of bullying tactics I see being reported are more appropriate in a school yard?
They have no place amongst adult thinking persons.
Especially amongst those charged with leading a country.
It is an indication of how immature is the thinking of those who initiate those events.
If we react at all, we must show strength of purpose, have a logical approach, and go forward resolutely.
Personally, I would ask the country concerned if the acts were countenanced by them.
If the acts were not authorised, and were thus being committed by rogue operators, those operators should not be protected by that country.
So those rogue operators could be effectively neutralised as required.

Peter Dutton's, career in the Queensland Police Force was anything but spectacular. Entered as a Constable, 10 years later was invalided out after a "spectacular rise" to the rank of Senior Constable., from which he was invalided out, after crashing a squad car! Then Pete tried to sue the Queensland taxpayer for pain and suffering. Then Pete went into Daddy Dutton's construction business, where possibly some poor sod with a family was sacked to make way for young Pete. With a one term Newman LNP government in power, the Daddy Dutton business took off, landing very nice money making deals for child care centres in Queensland with the mates from the LNP. Then Dutton went into federal politics, and with a bit of back stabbing along the way he's now Opposition leader. Great career!

It is ridiculous to argue about the ‘merits’ of different politicians: they are all the same - ignorant, up themselves, and out of touch with the people who keep voting for them. They are our worst enemies.

During the visit of his latest Communist bestie, Albanese vomited something about ‘dialogue’ being the core of our unnatural relationship with a Communist dictatorship.

No. It is not. The core is Australia's security and sovereignty. Dialogue is just the instrument to ensure that.

Albanese fails repeatedly with dialogue because he doesn't have the guts for it.

There is no place for ‘agreeing to disagree’ with a Communist dictatorship, the only interest of which is to turn Australia into a vassal state of China.

The Albanese government’s “cooperating where we can and disagreeing where we must” is an absurdity; and a very cowardly one.

There is an enormous gap between democracy and communism that will never be closed by weasel words from the weasel (Albanese) himself. Albanese is not frank and honest in public. Only the Lord knows what he is like, in private, with his Communist mates.

It is impossible to have a genuine relationship with a Communist dictatorship. At least be honest, and say that we are only in this one for the money, and we find Communism repulsive. That's plenty to be ashamed of.

mhaze,

Me catch up with your opinion - regarding Senator Penny Wong?

In order for me to do that I would have to go backwards.

Senator Wong has been consistently named as Australia's most
trusted politician as well as Australia's most trusted
legislator through studies and opinion polls conducted by
Roy Morgan Research, Australian Financial Review, Sydney
Morning Herald, The Age, and Australia Institute.

On 6 March 2024 Senator Wong became the largest serving female
cabinet minister in the history of the Australian Parliament.
The surveys have consistently found Senator Wong to be the most
trusted politician in Australia.

And, those are quite outstanding achievements for anybody to
achieve. Senator Wong has been described as:

" Principled, intellectual, private, restrained, and sane."

All qualities that stand her in good stead, for her position
as Foreign Minister. And as for her being a "token" appointment?
She stopped being a "token" by her qualifications and experience,
and her achievements, years ago.

Bezza,

Senator Wong has an impressive work experience record prior
to entering politics as well as in her political career.
Doing a bit of research may help you
to get a better view of her qualifications and expertise.

____________________________________________________________________

Hi Paul,

In politics we have the party hacks, the seat-warmers, the
people who enter politics for the wrong reasons. And then
we have men and women who enter politics to make a difference.
I consider those men and women - "statesmen." They want to
make life better for us. When they're in it to make life
better for themselves and their party - they stop being
"statesmen" and become politicians. (smile).

"She stopped being a "token" by her qualifications and experience, and her achievements, years ago."

Oh so you now concede she used to be a token appointment. Well that's a start.

I keep inviting you to tell us about these wonderous achievements by Wong as Foreign Affairs Minister.

You keep telling me they exist but continue to fail to find even one.

This is now quite comedic.

mhaze,

Admit it. All you're interested in is stirring.

I keep telling you to read the Senator's bio. It's
all listed as to what she's done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Wong#:

China has genuine international relationships only with similar thugs, like Russia, North Korea and others who are all a threat to the West. HTF do Albanese et al on the Left think they Australia can have anything but a trading relationship with them.

Have they not noticed that even that trade relationship will be damaged if they say anything to China that we can say to our real friends and allies. Look what happened when the last PM with the guts to call out China did so. OK, it was the only thing Morrison got right. But he was right, and he received international praise for it. Nobody has praised jelly-back Albanese for anything. “Handsome boy” doesn't count; it just amplifies the contempt he is held in by the Communists.

By keeping mum on China, Albanese is not just showing cowardice, he is legitimising Communist behaviour. So is the truly awful Wong, who acts more like a foreigner than a foreign minister.

Both the childish Albanese and Wong, along with the SA premier, are allowing themselves to be won over by replacements for a couple of animals, the name of one, Wang Wang, they mispronounce as Wong Wong because their Chinese mates apparently call an ‘A’ an ‘O’. Whatever the pandas are called, they can't breed: duds like the rest of the China-Australia relationship.

If Donald Trump gets in as US President won't that be lovely
for Australia. He loves strong dictators like Putin and the
rocket man of North Korea, and will probably kiss-ass with
China.

Penny Wong and the Albanese government won't look so bad
then will it.

Be careful what you wish for and choose wisely.

"Admit it. All you're interested in is stirring."

Yep that must be it. Couldn't possibly be that I simply disagree with your swooning toward Wong, could it? Because in Foxy's fantasy land there' no valid reason anyone could disagree with Foxy.

And still no example of anything exceptional Wong did as Foreign Affairs Minister.

"He loves strong dictators like Putin and the rocket man of North Korea, and will probably kiss-ass with China."

Yep just like he did in his first term. Oh wait, he didn't do any of that in his first term. But when you suffer from TDS, facts don't matter.

ttbn,
Trump or Biden does it matter
Albo or Dutton does it matter

When will you people look at the bigger picture going on in the world
The West, the G7 and its vassal states are a waning empire
Russia, China and BRICS are the new world.
Theses no stopping it.

Unless you want to blow the whole entire planet up and end up losing anyway.

Do you think we can beat them economically?
They have a very carefully crafted and foolproof geo-economic plan to put an end to the west and the unipolar world, it's happening before your eyes.
Do you think we can beat them militarily?
American weapons are overpriced junk.
Russia and China already have better stuff.
What weapons are we going to buy off the US to defend against Russian and Chinese drone swarms and hypersonic missiles travelling at Mach 10+?
How many billions will it cost just to fire off a salvo.
When you can't hit the hypersonics anyway?

We wont win the war, and it will send us broke.
Please stop trying to pick a fight with Mike Tyson.
It's unproductive.

Why do you hate China?
Is it because they are winning?
Why are they winning?
Is their system superior, or is our system inferior?

Watch this and you might find out why the West is losing.
The answer is incompetence.
No forward thinking.

Two parties fighting all the time and not achieving jack shite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig-88jMq0bk

Indonesia has 280 million people.
What are we going to do if they decided to launch a ground invasion?
Whats your plan?
The best plan is try to live with all of our neighbours in peace.

Treat foreign dignitaries with respect and decency when they visit.
Whose stupid bloody idea was it to park that Cheng Lei's arse right behind the Chinese premier?
You put an accused chinese spy behind the Chinese premier.
What sort of stupid childish schoolyard antics are the idiots in charge doing exactly?
Are they trapped in the mind of a 14 year old?

Hi AC,

Good questions.

Trump or Biden does it matter
Albo or Dutton does it matter

If you are looking for radical change outside the confines of the existing social and economic framework of capitalist, then no it doesn't much matter who the figurehead is. Other than having a reasonable level of intelligence to perform the required duties, then there's no other requirement.

"When will you people look at the bigger picture going on in the world
The West, the G7 and its vassal states are a waning empire
Russia, China and BRICS are the new world. Theses no stopping it."

We need to work to be part of a mutually beneficial world, which we know is developing, the old guard led by United States is in decline, and on its way out. A new social, economic and political order is developing , and we need to make ourselves relevant and included. We can do it, and it can be done peacefully.

" hypersonic missiles travelling at Mach 10+?"

The Chinese might call the missiles hypersonic but I think that if you replace the fuel with water and pocket the profit, they might not work quite as expected </sarc>

http://redstate.com/joesquire/2024/06/19/is-the-chinese-military-crumbling-under-xi-it-seems-like-it-n2175671?bcid=e1442d344ea409a0ee321161b0f77461

The world is (and always has been) filled with people who fall for the totalitarian propaganda that their system is a well oiled machine. Because they can suppress most contrary information, its easy for them to fool the easily fooled.

I well remember 'experts' and the apologists for totalitarian systems telling us as late as 1985 that the Soviet system was vastly superior and would overwhelm the west. Five years later the Soviet empire was no more.

When Russia invaded Ukraine, we found out it was a paper tiger. I strongly suspect that we'll learn the same thing about the crumbling Chinese empire if it ever decides to act on its expansionary ambitions.

Hi Paul,
The thing is I'm not sure I want 'radical' change
I feel like all I'm trying to do is avert catastrophe.

Look read this article:
How Putin Rebuilt Russia’s War Machine With Help From U.S. Adversaries
http://www.wsj.com/world/how-putin-rebuilt-russias-war-machine-with-help-from-u-s-adversaries-1ea6c2d1
Iran, North Korea and China are supplying the people and know-how to tool up Russia’s factories and churn out arms for the war in Ukraine

"WASHINGTON—Russia’s military cooperation with Iran, North Korea and China has expanded into the sharing of sensitive technologies that could threaten the U.S. and its allies long after the Ukraine war ends, according to U.S. defense and intelligence officials.

The speed and depth of the expanding security ties involving the U.S. adversaries has at times surprised American intelligence analysts. Russia and the other nations have set aside historic frictions to collectively counter what they regard as a U.S.-dominated global system, they said."

Really, the US didn't see that coming?
The Us can't even keep up with the wars it currently has, and you can bet all these other countries are stockpiling.

The West sealed it's own fate when it started sanctioning everyone and using trade as a weapon. Or course those targeted would get in cahoots.

Malaysia preparing to join BRICS economic group
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/malaysia-preparing-join-brics-economic-group-media-report-says-2024-06-18/

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/malaysia-preparing-join-brics-economic-group-media-report-says-2024-06-18/

There's over 40 more countries lined up to join, they all want out of the US system. Hopefully the transition to a multipolar or as the new term multinodal world wont involve a big war, but fading empires seldom go quietly.

I'm not looking for a radical leader.
Prudent and pragmatic might help though.

How Putin Turned a Western Boycott Into a Bonanza
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/17/world/putin-companies-economy-boycott-elites-benefit-ukraine-war.html

Russia to grow faster than all advanced economies says IMF
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/17/world/putin-companies-economy-boycott-elites-benefit-ukraine-war.html

Literally everything the West is doing right now is blowing up in its own face.
Look what Europe's done to itself.
They cut themselves off from Russian energy, allowed the US to blow their cheap gas pipeline up, and are heading towards third world country status, now talking conscription.
They are all crazy fanatics leading everyone off a cliff.

The collective West wrecks everything it touches right now.
It needs to accept that others can and do have a say in issues that affect them, not merely accept Washington dictates, and threats without question.
- And they have the clout to back it up.

mhaze,

I'm not the only one with concerns regarding Donald Trump's
re-election:

1) Former US president Donald Trump's lavish praise
and support of Vladimir Putin are fueling alarm among
former intelligence officials and other experts who
fear another Trump presidency would benefit Moscow
and harm American democracy and interests overseas.

2) Trump recklessly risked a war with North Korea in
2017, then he started a negotiating process with Kim
Jong-un the following 2 years. He may have avoided
conflict with North Korea but he wasn't able to
prevent them carrying out six nuclear tests and many
ballistic missile launches in 2017.

3) Not only is North Korea a very real and persistent
threat to the US which is within range of its
intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) but also for
the US two closest allies - South Korea and Japan.

We should all be concerned if this unstable man gets re-elected
for a second term as US President.

"Trump Derangement Syndrome?"

This term has mainly been used by Trump supporters such as
yourself to try to discredit any criticism of Trump as a
way of re-framing the discussion by suggestion that his
opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the man.

As for my not giving you Senator Penny Wong's achievements?

Again, I shall repeat the fact that you only have to read
the link I gave you. Her achievements are all listed there.

This shouldn't be difficult for you to do. But if it is too
difficult try reading about the Trans-Pacific Partnership
that she helped negotiate as well as the strong standard
that she's set in rebuilding diplomatic ties with Australia's
nearest neighbours. She's spear-headed a substantive shift
in how Australia engages with its "Pacific Family."

Her approach has been welcomed in the Pacific.

You're welcome.

" Former US president Donald Trump's lavish praise
and support of Vladimir Putin are fueling alarm among
former intelligence officials and other experts'

Are they the same "former intelligence officials and other experts" who thought the Hunter Laptop was Russian propaganda? Yeah let's all trust what they have to say.

Oh wait, they are telling Foxy what she wants to hear, so of course she'll fall for it.....again.

As I've said here more times than ought to be necessary for even the densest of readers, Trump's presidency was the harder on Putin than any previous leader. Whereas Obama begged Putin to give him space in an election year for which he'd show appropriate 'flexibility' in return, Trump came down hard on Putin in areas such as arms agreements, economic sanctions, oil pricing and support for Ukraine. But you won't understand that.

mhaze,

Here is the former US President Donald Trump's foreign policy
plans in his own words:

http://abc.net.au/news/2024-04-06/donald-trump-foreign-polcy-plans-in-his-words/103672178

And here is his politics on Putin:

http://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html

That CNN article was pretty funny. They just repeated every debunked claim about Trump vis a vis Russia that they could find.

I'm not surprised that low-information readers such as Foxy fell for it. Luckily CNN viewership/readership is in the toilet so few people will have been misled, unlike Foxy.

mhaze,

What's funny is your attempts to defend Trump. Hard to
do when it all comes out of his own mouth and is on record.
But keep on trying to debunk. Perfectly understandable.
And of course CNN is part of the "Fake News" network.
And nobody watches it. Right. We understand.

The decline of CNN viewing is all a result of "Fake News."
It needs to be "debunked."

The reality however, is:

The decline in viewing has taken place in most cable networks.
Viewers are subsequently leaving cable for streaming platforms.
As a result CNN is making changes which will take time to
shape but the changes will strengthen its reputation as a
news brand while also attracting viewers who are now watching
Netflix and HGTV - not just competing news.

I'm really looking forward to November 5th.

Of course if Trump loses - it will be another case of a
" stolen election."

More "debunking" ahead for you.

"Among total viewers, Fox News dominated prime time with 2.262 million viewers, followed by MSNBC (1.165 million viewers) and CNN (587,000 viewers). "

But so long as they tell YOU what you want to hear they'll always have a place in your heart......

As to Trump losing, I still think he will lose the count - win the vote but lose the count, although the efforts of Lara Trump to enlist volunteers to improve election integrity might yet make a difference.

mhaze,

As explained earlier CNN has had a midyear primetime
programming make-over.

They'll continue to cover Trump news. And they will
undoubtedly have plenty of it as the election approaches.
Trump's the type of person who lies so often he can't
remember what actually happened.

As I said - there will be more debunking for you in days
and months ahead.

Be happy. It will give you something to do.

I don't debunk....I inform.

Like I did vis a vis renewables in France.

Thanks ttbn for your comments. mhaze usually has an interesting perspective even if I don't agree.

"Among total viewers, Fox News dominated prime time with 2.262 million viewers, followed by MSNBC (1.165 million viewers) and CNN (587,000 viewers)"- interesting.

mhaze,

I can always tell when a person is well-informed.
Their views are pretty much like my own.

CM

I am still concerned about your failure to get a topic up.

The other day, I accidentally tapped the wrong key, and the ‘Submissions’ page came up. It's for long essays by non-posters in the front section of OLO. And I'm wondering if you went there instead of the ‘New discussion’ at the top of the page.

I can't believe that anything you tried to put up would be unacceptable.

ttbn- I'll let you know what happens next time I pluck up enough energy to make another attempt. As I said I'm happy with GY's efforts. If the issue is important enough 'someone' will bring it up eventually. I'll pay special attention to the difference between "New Discussion" and "Submission".

Hi AC,

When I speak of "radical" change it might invoke images of violent extremism, in a fractured society such as Russia in 1917 or Germany in in 1933, don't get me wrong, I don't mean that to be so in the Australian context, we are not a fractured society. What I believe in is orderly progressive social improvement through the democratic process. To give an example, Medicare was "radical" at the time of its introduction into Australia's way of life, it wasn't there, then it was, that was a radical change. Its only vested interests and their misguided conservative supporters who resist real change for the good, with their negativity they fear change and its impact, so they feel comfortable maintaining the status quo .

CM

I hope you will.

I understand and agree with having to “pluck up” the energy to post. When you have the Tiresome Two thinking that they know better than everyone else, and believing that it is their mission in life to rip into other's opinions with boring references from people just as bigoted and ignorant as they are. Things would be much better without them, but there seems to be a fascination here, as elsewhere, with minorities that need to be recognised all the time and dealt with, when experience shows that it is a waste of time and energy. It just keeps them going, getting worse all the time.

We don't have to bother ourselves with their predictable nonsense and Far Left/ communist lectures; and OLO remains the only option to the vicious jungle of unsociable media when you have something to say or shine a light on.

They are entitled to express their ignorance and warped ideology. We are entitled to ignore them. Opinions only, leaving them to bang their heads against a brick wall as much as they like.

While Albanese is pissing in Beijing's pocket, the Philippines continues its grey war against the Communist dictatorship - not remarked on in Australia.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/high-noon-at-second-thomas-shoal/

ttbn,

OLO is a discussion forum that enables people to engage
in ongoing conversations about social and political debate.
Share information about a particular topic or issue.

To many of us this discussion forum is a way of keeping
our brains active. A way of learning. It encourages people
to do some research on topics that perhaps they normally
would not necessarily be interested in.

Usually for many, it broadens outlooks on subjects, gathering
feedbacks and giving people an opportunity to connect with a
diverse range of views. It becomes for some a shared
experience and often results in so much positivity.

Of course discussion forums can also be breeding grounds for
trolls and harrassment making it more challenging to moderate
and foster productive conversations.

Luckily OLO has a dedicated moderator who has established an
effective moderation system that facilitates healthy
communication within the discussion forum. There are rules
in place that discourage flaming and abuse.
Healthy communication is encouraged within the OLO
discussion forum.

This is something we all need to remember before posting.

Cheers.

Hi Foxy
"2) Trump recklessly risked a war with North Korea in
2017, then he started a negotiating process with Kim
Jong-un the following 2 years. He may have avoided
conflict with North Korea but he wasn't able to
prevent them carrying out six nuclear tests and many
ballistic missile launches in 2017.

3) Not only is North Korea a very real and persistent
threat to the US which is within range of its
intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) but also for
the US two closest allies - South Korea and Japan."

Well that ships already sailed now Foxy.
Russia's now allied militarily with North Korea.

Trump tried to make peace with Kim Jong Un, but Bolton torpedoed his efforts, Kim Jong Un was begging the West to try and make peace. Even Russia had previously supported sanctions aimed at preventing Noth Koreas nuclear aspirations.
But not now.

The West used ATACMS to kill dozens of kids and families on a Crimean Beach yesterday.

Russia wont attack NATO bases just yet. What they are doing instead is arming up all of the US adversaries so proxy forces will attack the US everywhere, but it wont be Russia itself, just like the US attacks Russia, while hiding behind Ukraine.

So when the Houthis get Onix missiles, and North Korea gets satellite tech and all of Americas adversaries are emboldened, it will be Americas fault for trying to bring NATO and war to Russias doorstep.
DYING FROM THE TRUTH US IMPERIALISM IN FREE FALL
http://www.youtube.com/live/tXCtatuhkzo

Excellent video challenging democracy.
Talks about many things I've spoken about for years
MUST WATCH

I love listening to people who are way smarter than me.

Hi AC,

Thank you for the information.