The Forum > General Discussion > The Australian Jew dubbed traitor for speaking out against the war in Gaza
The Australian Jew dubbed traitor for speaking out against the war in Gaza
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Posted by NathanJ, Monday, 6 May 2024 2:20:34 PM
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There are decent people in every society but unfortunately in much smaller numbers than the exploiters.
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 9:21:59 AM
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Nathan,
I don't know how Anthony Loewenstein could be called a “traitor”. He is an Australian citizen. Had he been a Muslim and not a Jew, he could have been called an apostate because Islam is a political organisation as well as a religious one. Judaism is not a political organisation, and Lowenstein is not an Israeli. No “treachery” has occurred. Lowenstein is just another left-wing twat who has always been anti- Israel(or anti the Israeli government he disapproves of). What he says or does has never been of any interest to Israel, and never will be. He is just another self-opinionated scribbler. Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 9:49:11 AM
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Hi Nathan,
There's a long tradition among prominent Jewish figures opposing the Israeli state. There's also the tradition of them being vilified. Many prominent Jewish figures over the past century from Albert Einstein to Holocaust survivor Primo Levi have opposed the Israeli state's behavior regarding Palestinians. As have Isaac Asimov, Noam Chomsky, Miriam Margolyes, and Antony Loewenstein to name just a few. Jewish survivors and descendants of the survivors of Nazi genocide condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza. ABC TV's broadcasting of the film "Not In My Name," about dissident Judaism and the work and life of Antony Loewenstein had a huge reaction and showed the importance of critical Jewish voices in the face of the endless occupation of Palestine and the massacres and war crimes taking place in Gaza. The ratings of the Compass program are in - and they're huge! In the top 20 TV programs in Australia with TV reach of 651k people (and 347k - national average audience) 1000s more online (and 50k views and growing on YouTube). Antony Loewenstein, who's lived and worked in Israel knows what he's talking and writing about. He's an independent journalist, author and film-maker. His book - "My Israel Question," was required reading for high school students. He's won awards - including the 2019 Jerusalem (Al Quds) Peace Prize - one of Australia's leading peace awards for his work on Israel/Palestine. There's more about famous Jews who have opposed Israel at: http://stopwar.org.uk/article/from-albert-einstein-to-noam-chomsky-famous-jews-who-have-opposed-israel/ Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 10:37:05 AM
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Foxy, Nathan J, there's a long tradition of vilifying, branding and even killing folks who oppose or don't agree with the "state"...wherever it may be. It's how the state responds to, or judges this criticism that separates the state itself from being a religious, political and ideological pariah internationally. Vide Putin, many in Russia call Zelenzky a "Nazi" - equally many in Israel now want Netanyahu to go. Is Julian Assange an 'enemy of the state' as the US sustains - for having divulged dirty little secrets and airing the stained underwear and bed linen of the high and mighty ? That kind of activity will always get you a huge target painted on your back. It is only when the populace march on parliaments, with pitch forks brandished, that politicians of all persuasions actually take notice. Meanwhile as the panem et circences continues in the Middle East, Uncle Xi is firing up the wok in our backyard.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 11:14:02 AM
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Hi Albie,
But surely the world can't tolerate this behavior any further. Israel must stop its occupation and war crimes. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 11:41:46 AM
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"Jewish, Australian journalist Antony Loewenstein, branded a traitor by some..."
His tribe say he's gone off the reservation His opinions are considered 'unacceptable' Has he failed to adhere to the ideals of the group? Was he not racist enough? Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 11:57:58 AM
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Hi Foxy,
"But surely the world can't tolerate this behavior any further. Israel must stop its occupation and war crimes." - I'm fairly certain Netanyahu is about to send his forces into Rafah, if he hasn't done so already as we speak. So pull up a chair and wait for the statistics and stories to start coming in. The Campus protesters looked like they might throw a spanner in the works, but many groups may have had their demands met - in order to break up the movement before it actually has any effect on government policy. The world is helpless to do anything for the Palestinians so long as the US wields its veto and provides weapons. Forget all the stuff the US does to convince you it cares. None of that matters. All they have is Hamas. No-one else is going to stand up for them. And that's why October 7 happened. Right to Resist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist "In international law, the right to resist is closely related to the principle of self-determination. It is widely recognized that a right to self-determination arises in situations of colonial domination, foreign occupation, and racist regimes that deny a segment of the population political participation." Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 12:10:17 PM
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Hi AC,
Taken from the web: "Hamas has accepted mediated proposals for a ceasefire agreement that involves the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, a return of displaced Palestinians to their homes, as well as an exchange of Israeli captives and Palestinian prisoners." " Israel is moving ahead with attacks on Rafah as bombing of the southern city in Gaza increased overnight." " Protestors held demonstrations in multiple Israeli cities to demand that the authorities accept a ceasefire deal and bring back some 130 captives still believed to be held in Gaza." "Isan welcomed the Hamas stance. It supports the plan that includes a sustainable ceasefire, exchange of prisoners, withdrawal of Israeli troops and reconstruction of Gaza." And what's the US doing? We're told it's looking into things. Meanwhile more innocents die. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 1:09:35 PM
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My apologies for the typo. It should read - Iran
welcomes the deal. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 7 May 2024 1:11:57 PM
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"And what's the US doing?
We're told it's looking into things. Meanwhile more innocents die." One way that might help to understand the US mentality Is to consider it like a child / narcissist, that constantly tells lies But it doesn't think of what is says and does as being lies or wrong. It tells you what it tells you because its a means to get what it wants, - and it doesn't think of what it's doing as being wrong. Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 2:18:19 AM
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The Zionists are now showing their true colours, as an agreement on a ceasefire in Gaza seems a reality with Hamas finally agreeing to release the hostages. However the Zionists who have corralled 1.2 million people, 600,000 of whom are children in Rafah now seem more intent on attacking unarmed civilians than participating in a humanitarian ceasefire.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 8:06:49 AM
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That wasn't a cease fire proposal, it was a peace treaty, proposed with an organisation, Hamas, that doesn't want to live at peace. There was no deal there, and you'd have to be mad to think there was.
Posted by Graham_Young, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 8:32:38 AM
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I though that the agreement was 'we will not negotiate with terrorists'. Israel must obliterate the Hamas terrorists. It is absurd to even think about treating with such dreadful people.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 9:06:08 AM
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As long as Israel maintains its occupation, treats the
Palestinians as "animals" and keeps up the bombardment and its total control of the region - nothing is going to change. And, the American financial and military support only keeps the situation on going. Dreadful people? No, not the people - its the Israeli government as the protesters will confirm. And as for being mad? Yes it is insanity - to keep doing what you've being doing for decades and expect things to change! Israel is a rogue state - and should be tried for war crimes. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 10:01:40 AM
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Any state, by any reasonable assessment, which treats
international laws and conventions with contempt and openly disregards them with increasing regularity and maintains a brutal military occupation into the bargain fits into the rogue state category. Israel is one such state. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 1:04:24 PM
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Graham_Young,
"Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday that the CEASEFIRE proposal accepted by Hamas falls short of essential (Israeli) demands, Reuters reported." (My capitals) Netanyahu’s comments come as diplomatic sources say the agreement approved by Hamas is similar to the Egyptian proposal Israel already agreed to, Haaretz reported on Monday. "According to a foreign diplomatic source familiar with the negotiations, the outline Hamas accepted Monday night is, at its core, the same as the Egyptian proposal which Israel has already approved." "Since Sunday, CIA chief William Burns and Qatari Prime Minister Abdulrahman bin Jassim Al Thani have held several meetings, during which an outline was reached based on the existing proposal – and it was this that enabled the breakthrough to Hamas’ acceptance of the deal." Another diplomat closely familiar with the proposal said that “the ball is now in Netanyahu’s court.” To say; "That wasn't a cease fire proposal, it was a peace treaty, proposed with an organisation, Hamas, that doesn't want to live at peace. There was no deal there, and you'd have to be mad to think there was." It would appear from a distant vantage point you are more familiar with the negotiations than high level diplomats at the coal face. So who is mad Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 2:03:53 PM
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Going by two thousand years of that idiocy I'm surprised some people still think there can be a solution based on sense !
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 8 May 2024 7:55:37 PM
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I reckon Antony, for all his anti-authoritarian sins, is a great Australian.
What Israel has done to Gaza civilians vindicates the objections he's voiced for all these years. Posted by Maverick, Thursday, 9 May 2024 9:58:30 AM
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ttbn,
Antony Loewenstein is a Jew. I can't believe you would want to come out against a Jew. In principle the Jews are very nice people. I won't come out against any Jews specifically and attack them. I have done that with the Israeli Prime Minister, but I do not consider him a Jew, certainly not a true one, I consider him an evil person and nothing more. Antony Loewenstein has been called a "traitor" by many in his community, but people must understand Jews have different views just like everyone else. Facing being called a Nazi collaborator and various other terms like terror supporter and an antisemite are not nice for Antony to face. As I pointed out he has faced death threats also. It's all so shocking and uncalled for. Antony is a brave man for speaking out over many years, including against the war in Gaza. I often feel sorry for those who have been disowned by their family, their people or community when they go against a common norm. I encourage people to support the Jews, including ones like Antony Loewenstein, not oppose them. Posted by NathanJ, Thursday, 9 May 2024 10:36:42 PM
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"Israel must obliterate the Hamas terrorists" What that means in reality, and the far right has no objection, is to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 9 May 2024 11:22:07 PM
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is to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible.
Paul1405, That is stupid hate speech. The Palestinians have a choice but they appear to choose status quo. Isn't it simply a matter of no more terrorism, no more reprisals ? Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 11 May 2024 7:35:03 AM
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Indy,
"The Palestinians have a choice but they appear to choose status quo. Isn't it simply a matter of no more terrorism, no more reprisals ?" The 1.2 million Palestinians, 600,000 of whom are children, the Zionist have corralled them into Rafah, they have no choice as the Zionist death squads, ridiculously called Special Operations Squads, are preparing to liquidate as many of these innocent people as possible. AND, you say I engage in hate speak! Tens of thousands of innocent women and children murdered by the Zionists so far in this war. Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 May 2024 11:36:02 AM
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Hi Paul,
UN has overwhelmingly voted for Palestinian rights. The overwhelming majority of UN member states backed Palestine's bid for statehood. To date about 35,000 Palestinians have been killed in the strip much of which is reduced to rubble. More and more students are taking part in peaceful protests around the world. Israel is still choosing to stand alone as Netanyahu insists. Jewish students and faculty members are also taking part in the pro-Palestine protests. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 11 May 2024 12:10:45 PM
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the Zionist have corralled them into Rafah,
Paul1405, Are you absolutely sure they corralled them before the Palestinians started their terrorising ? My guess is that the Palestinians started to cop Israeli reprisals AFTER terror attacks & not before. From what I have seen over my lifetime the Israelis only hit back, they didn't instigate attacks. So, if the Palestinians want peace they should keep the peace ! Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 11 May 2024 5:04:16 PM
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Indy,
What do you suggest the 1.2 million innocent people, including 600,000 children in Rafah do? Each one should pen a very stern letter to their local MP demanding they do something about their dire situation, mate wake up! But then I'm sure you believe they are no value Muslim terrorists, and therefore it's justified that they pay with their lives to satisfy Zionist retribution, and ethnic cleansing of the land. I know where you stand with anyone not like you! As a refugee yourself, you should understand the helpless situation innocent people caught up in war face. Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 May 2024 5:37:05 PM
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What do you suggest the 1.2 million innocent people, including 600,000 children in Rafah do?
Paul1405, For a start, all those Palestinians & their sympathisers spread over the planet who demonstrate about the dreadful situation in the Middle East could pool their resources & head back to Palestine & help rebuild their country instead of running away & criticising from a safe distance. They could talk to their people & show them that Israel could be their friend if only they denounced the terrorist activities. Israel would most likely give back some land & help build a Palestine. It's all possible if they stop the terrorist antics. Israel is not the enemy of the Palestinians, the Palestinians are the enemies of Israel ! The ball is in their court. They're not giving Israel the chance for good relations with them. That's how I see it & I fully accept to be corrected but from all the evidence available to me this is how it looks to me. Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 11 May 2024 7:09:56 PM
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Indy,
You are detached from the reality of the situation. "if only they (Palestinians) denounced the terrorist activities. Israel would most likely give back some land & help build a Palestine." The 1.2 million have no voice to denounce anything, they are innocent people trapped in an extremely violent situation, facing a humanitarian disaster. "if they stop the terrorist antics" You want to believe the 1.2 million are terrorists, simply to justify your support for their annihilation at the hands of the Zionists. Can you not understand these people are not terrorists, but innocent people caught up in a terrible situation. In your own case, were you not a refugee who fled Europe? Do you feel responsible for the atrocities committed by your government in your name? You would be just like the Palestinians, punished for the actions of a totalitarian regime you had no hand in. Sick! Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 May 2024 7:40:09 PM
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Paul1405,
Your reply is just so typical of shifting blame to justify your hatred towards harmony. Those 1.2 million you refer to are your victims & those you support to perpetuate mayhem, no-one else's ! I'm pretty sure you don't even know why you're so obsessed with disunity ! Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 11 May 2024 10:33:25 PM
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Indyvidual,
If you're going to make a comment, make it an intelligent one. Don't just post nonsensical stuff and then just leave. Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 12 May 2024 1:43:52 PM
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nonsensical
Foxy, Don't be so quick in using such words, you may yet understand ! Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 14 May 2024 1:16:02 PM
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Indyvidual,
It's up to you not me. You need to give something more so that it can be understood. Make your meaning clearer instead of just using inappropriate insults and slurs. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 14 May 2024 2:22:44 PM
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Make your meaning clearer
Foxy, How much clearer do you need ? Try observing & thinking for a change ! Posted by Indyvidual, Thursday, 16 May 2024 9:10:07 AM
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Indyvidual,
Lead by example Sir. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 May 2024 9:21:38 AM
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Indy,
You have continually portray the 1.2 million people, half of which are children, trapped in Rafah as terrorist, that allows you to justify in your mind the righteousness of the Zionist atrocities committed against them, simply as retribution. You have convinced yourself that the Zionists are merely punishing the guilty. You refuse to answer the question concerning your own case when you were a refugee seeking asylum in Australia. Were you not guilty of supporting the actions of the regime from whence you came? Wont answer that, will you. Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 May 2024 5:46:24 AM
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Paul1405,
At least you're not making any spelling mistakes in your hate speech posts or are you using Grammarly ? Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 17 May 2024 10:44:18 AM
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Indy,
You know you are wrong, so you try some kind of deflection. Who was you "fearless leader" before you sought refuge in Australia, Mussolini perhaps? Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 May 2024 12:20:32 PM
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portray the 1.2 million people, half of which are children, trapped in Rafah as terrorist,
Paul1405, What a stupid & senselessly hateful thing to say, only you could compose something like that. The people YOU support are using their women & children as gory propaganda to try to get sympathy. Where is your concern for these children ? Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 17 May 2024 10:22:28 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSMdSYZtMw
There are many good, very nice Jewish people out there internationally and the Israeli government activity past and present is not something they support - Antony being one of them.
Antony has faced death threats, has been attacked in the media including recently and attacked by Jewish organisations worldwide.
I think it is very brave for a Jew in Australia, in fact anywhere to openly speak out against the Israeli government and what it has been doing over many years.