Anzac Day is coming up next week.
We speak of the "Anzac Tradition,"
meaning the ideals of courage, endurance,
and mateship.

We've been taught the history of how the Australian
and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAACS)
landed at Gallipoli on April 25th 1913. How for 8 months
they endured the constant threat of death or maiming in
terrible conditions.

How ultimately their occupation of that narrow and
rugged piece of Turkish coast failed. That 30,000 Anzacs were
evacuated after 8 months. More than 2,700 New Zealand and
8,700 Australians died, with many more wounded.

The first anniversary of the landing was a day of mourning
with Anzac Day becoming a public holiday in 1922. A
remembering day of sorrow.

It has grown over the years to include all those who
served and died in later international conflicts.

Is Anzac Day still relevant in the 21st Century?

Of course it is. Remembering and learning about the physical
and mental cost of war is the real point of those phrases
we all know so well - "Lest We Forget," and "Never Again".

Anzac Day should speak to the need for global peace and
how war is no viable solution to conflict. We can see from
what's happening in the world today that these are lessons
that surely are worth teaching. We may not succeed - but
we do need to try if we want to leave a better world for
the next generations.

As we listen to the bugle's sorrowful melody
of - "The Last Post," being
played - may we remember the past with pride, but learn from
the lessons of the past, so we can look to the future with
hope.

April 25th, a long time ago
You went to battle at dawn
Many lost their lives that day
Together we shall mourn
We will march and remember
All of you brave men
For you went to war and battled on
And not all came home again
Through the darkest nights
And the longest days
Through muddy grounds you went
You marched on and looked behind
And saw the poppies spent
We will wear one on this day
To remember your courage so strong
We want you to know
That in our hearts
Your memory shall live on.

Hi Foxy

ANZAC Day was a major day in my family because:

- one of my Grandfathers fought at Gallipoli and then in World War Two

- the other Grandfather was a FIFO orthodontist at Pine Gap, treating CIA and Aussies who were remotely-electronically "fighting" wars in Vietnam, the 1979 Sino-Vietnam War and fighting in East Timor

- my father fought in Vietnam

- I was in the army reserve amongst people with PTSD from the Korean, Vietnam wars and Indonesian Konfrontasi

I saw ANZAC Day as a bit of a curse that augured in the shorter, dark days of Canberra Winters. No longer - the oldies have died off and I live far away from Canberra.

I still go to the local RSL Club and know so many people still effected by war.

Mavs

Hi Mavs,

Anzac Day was always commemorated in our household
as well. Our family lost a great deal during several
wars. The experiences of wars have left their mark.

Family members also served in the Vietnam War,
many had mental issues as a result. One family member
to this day refuses to even talk about what he
experienced.

My father-in-law marched in the parade every Anzac Day.

I had the privilege of meeting Weary Dunlop years ago.
It was a very emotional experience.

I've just come across the following link:

http://sbs.com.au/language/english/en/article/settlement-guide-what-does-anzac-day-mean-to-migrants/emOhn97zu

Many people might not realize that there were diverse backgrounds
amongst the Anzacs.

OOOps. Excuse my typo.

Here's the link again:

http://sbs.com.au/language/english/en/article/settlement-guide-what-does-anzac-day-mean-to-migrants/em0hn97zu

Hi Foxy

Like Australia Day
I have to say
ANZAC Day
Is becoming yet another
Politically Correct
Aboriginal Remembrance Day...

Put another way

we should remember the about 90 to 95% of Australians who weren't minorities, who fought in wars.
Their sacrifices should not be submerged by, ultimately vote seeking, Labor political campaigning.

Mavs

"More than 2,700 New Zealand and 8,700 Australians died, with many more wounded."

Israel probably racked up that many civilian casualties in the first 2 weeks after October 7.

"Is Anzac Day still relevant in the 21st Century?"
- My Great Grandfather was a Lighthorseman.
Probably a few more of my past relatives fought as well.
Personally I think it's become a day for politicians to try to make themselves look good.
Maybe a day for defence officials to ramble on scare us about global conflicts and beat their war drums;
That's how the government makes it relevant.

"Lest We Forget," and "Never Again"

Lest we forget what?
How we fought alongside Palestinians in Gaza?
The follies of war?

I think those things may have already been forgotten some time ago.
It looks as if we may have to relearn old mistakes.

The American Empire is heading towards conflict with its main rival China.
- China's becoming too powerful, and gaining more global influence than the US is comfortable with.
America planned to overthrow Putin, make Russia a vassal state of the West, install Navalny, sell off Russia's state-owned oil companies (to the US companies) break up Russia into micro-states, have them all join NATO and become indebted to the west up to their eyeballs, with US military bases and ring-fence China militarily, destroy it hegemonically (as planned for Putin and Russia also) but it's all gone horribly wrong and the Collective West is not going to achieve it's imperialistic goals.

We've began to move into a multi-polar world, away from America's short 'Unipolar moment' - Fall of USSR until now;
- Though it could be said that the empire began to contract when Russia blocked their expansion in Syria.
The bully doesn't have the same power he used to.
They lost their industrial manufacturing and have allowed their military power to fall behind.
Drones and hypersonic missiles have changed the nature of war.
Nations are queuing up to join BRICS.
De-dollarisation is continuing.
Yellen was sent packing in China last week, when she went to beg / issue demands

Foxy,
Here's something interesting:

"During the First World War over a thousand Russian-born servicemen enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force (AIF). They were the largest national group in the AIF after British, New Zealand and Canadian born servicemen. Besides ethnic Russians, these Anzacs included members of a score of different ethnic groups born within the borders of the Russian Empire. Their story is told in my book:
Elena Govor, Russian Anzacs in Australian History, Sydney, UNSW Press in association with NAA, 2005, 310 p."

http://russiananzacs.net/

http://russiananzacs.net/ethnicorigin/Lithuanian/
You might also be interested to know that there was 54 Lithuanian Anzacs, apparently.

Armchair

Yes America was the critical addition that stopped the Germans winning WWI.

America saved Britain and Western Europe in WWII.

America was the only foreign country that saved Australia in WWII.

Yes America invaded Iraq in 2003.

Are you now trying to claim America is to blame for:

- Hamas' 7th October 2023 attack on Israel (Hamas being responsible for the war in Gaza) and,

- for Russia's 4 February 2022 invasion of Ukraine?

Mavs

Anzac Day in our family was always a special day.
A day of saying a prayer for all those who
fought and died for us. And for all those who
have suffered because of the wars. And many
are still suffering.

We have in the past attended the Dawn Service here
in Melbourne. This year, due to my mobility issues
we won't be attending. However, we will say a prayer,
and watch what we can on the news.

Hi Mavs
"Yes America was the critical addition that stopped the Germans winning WWI."
Well, USSR did most of the hard fighting.
U.S only lost 400k in WWII but Russia lost 27 million.
- America however did send Stalin a lot of equipment before the US officially entered the war.
It's probably fair to say they both put an end to Hitler together with more emphasis on Russians doing most of the fighting in Europe and on their own doorstep.
The US then took care of Japan.

"America was the only foreign country that saved Australia in WWII."
- The Japanese were hardly going to invade and conquer us, but I get your point.

"Are you now trying to claim America is to blame for:

- Hamas' 7th October 2023 attack on Israel (Hamas being responsible for the war in Gaza) "
No that was all Hamas, (or at least mostly) but the US is guilty of helping to facilitate the occupation, providing weapons and equipment and stopping any action taken against Israel via it's UNSC veto.

So I wouldn't blame it on them, but I wouldn't say they're entirely innocent either.

Lets say you're fighting with your neighbour next door.
If another neighbour across the street is helping your neighbour next door, can the neighbour across the street claim to be an 'uninvolved party'?
- Not really.
And that goes for all the collective west claiming to be uninvolved in the Russia / Ukraine conflict who are providing arms and training.
But I digress.

"- for Russia's 4 February 2022 invasion of Ukraine?"
Am I now?
Mate I've been blaming America for that mess since the 2014 Maidan.
Where have you been? lol.
I don't support sanctions or overthrows.

Hi Foxy,
"This year, due to my mobility issues
we won't be attending. However, we will say a prayer,
and watch what we can on the news."

Sorry to hear mobility issues are standing in the way of your Aussie traditions.
Hope you enjoy the morning and the day anyway.

Hi Armchair

Where you say:

"Hi Mavs
"Yes America was the critical addition that stopped the Germans winning WWI."

You will note I and then you are talking about WWI, that is World War One - wherein Russia surrendered to the Germans in 1918 [1] This freed up large German forces to fight the British (UK, ANZAC and Canadian) and French forces on Germany's Western Front.

These strengthened German Forces would have beaten the weaker British and French forces. The 2 million American forces in 1918 tipped the balance in favour of the allies - winning the war. This was on top of Americas exports also saving the British economy in 1917-18.

And yes the USSR did lose 27 million in World War Two doing most of the fighting against Germany in that War.

Cheers Mavs

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

Hi AC,

Thanks for your well wishes.

And, for the information about Lithuanian Anzacs.
Something I did not know and will have to research.
I know that some Lithuanians did come to this country
quite early on in the past - so I guess it makes sense.
Many also have recently joined the armed forces, including
graduating from the Military Academy in Canberra with great pride.

Hi AC,

Here's just one blog about Lithuanian Anzacs:

http://earlylithuaniansinaustralia.blogspot.com/2015/03/lithuanian-anzacs-at-gallipoli.html

Hi Mavs,
Ah, I screwed up big time, didn't I? Not again...
Lol, 'Wrong war' (idiot...)

No worries Armchair

There are just too many wars to track.

And the most powerful superpower today, the USA, has the resources to prolong any war it chooses eg. currently Gaza and Ukraine. And it did prolong the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan way past their Wars Should Have Ended Use By Dates (WSBYDs).

Cheers Mavs

"And the most powerful superpower today, the USA, has the resources to prolong any war it chooses eg. currently Gaza and Ukraine."

-No, not anymore, the US military is in no state to conduct large scale ground wars, they can project power against a weaker nation with a carrier strike group and air power, but those things are now giant floating targets for hypersonic weapons.

They won't prolong the war in Ukraine indefinitely unless they put boots on the ground.
Ukraine is the Titanic, it's full of water and it's going down, it's inevitable.

Iran showed yesterday how things have changed.
They used drone swarms, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles all timed to reach their targets simultaneously.
Some even claim hypersonic missiles as well, but I don't know if this is accurate.
The Shahed drones locate radar and missile defence, and exhaust the missile defense launchers of interceptors, many are probably decoys.
Then the cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and hypersonics can more freely hit all their targets.

US can't even stop the Houthis attacks and re-open ship traffic on the Red Sea.
They're not the military power they were.
There probably isn't even many troops with real combat experience on the level going on in Ukraine.

The whole entire collective West can't match Russias current military industrial production.
The US military is besieged with issues related to Diversity, Equality and Inclusion so much so it can't even fill recruitment quotas.
They don't have hypersonic missiles, drone forces, and their missile defense wont protect them against these modern weapons.
All of their weapons and equipment is outdated, except maybe for the F-35 which has been called a flying piano by it's pilots.
Carrier strike groups may now even belong to a bygone era;
They probably wouldn't last more than a week if at sea or more than 2 in port in a serious conflict.

Sir William Deane, Governor General of Australia on Anzac
Day 1999 stated:

"Anzac Day isn't just about loss. It is about courage and
endurance and duty and love of country and mateship, and
good humour, and the survival of self-worth and decency in
the face of dreadful odds."

Take care.

Kudos Maverick and Armchair Critic. Remember our ANZAC's. Our ancestors legacy. Our duty to protect Australia from foreign invaders to ensure the future of our descendants just as our fathers have ensured ours. Prepare for the coming conflicts and try to form allies to grow our common wealth. God save the king for he is the face of our protectorate.

Here are the facts:

Men from nearly every continent and creed served in the
Australian Imperial Forces (AIF). These volunteers had to
overcome Australia's racist White Australia Policy before
they could be accepted. Soldiers in the AIF came from
countries around the world, including, Belgium, China,
Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, India, Italy,
Japan, Lebanon, Norway, and the Russian Empire (including
Lithuania).

Australian soldiers encompassed many cultural backgrounds,
including our own Indigenous people.

General Sir John Monash was a well known member of the
Australian Imperial Forces (AIF) who was not Anglo-Celtic.
His parents were born in Prussia (now Poland) to Jewish
families. Monash overcame the entrenched anti-Semitism and
prejudice to become a leader of the Australian Army.

There's more at the following link telling us about the
cultural diversity in Australia's forces during World War 1.
Sharing Australia's military and service history through the
experiences of our veterans.

http://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions-ww1/personnel/cultural-diversity

My apologies for the typo.

Here's the link again:

http://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions/ww1/personnel/cultural-diversity

Foxy said- "These volunteers had to
overcome Australia's racist White Australia Policy before
they could be accepted."

Answer- I think that this view that Foxy repeats is racist and genocidal and Anglophobic and Anti-White. Not sure where it comes from however it was apparently Trotsky that popularised the term "racist". Does that mean that Foxy is a Trotskyite? It seems that many socialists and social democrats like Trotsky. Trotsky groups apparently infiltrated working man's clubs and incidentally the gay movement in the sixties- seemingly looking for disenfranchised members of the society in order perhaps to destroy it. Perhaps Foxy is one of these enemy agents that seeks to destroy us.

It's possible for two ethnicities to be racist against each other at the same time. But if it's in your own house you can say what you want. If you don't like it go back to your own house.

Foxy should give up on her hate and be appreciative and grateful of the temporary sustenance that Australia has provided to her and her family but if she has turned against the descendants then she should leave. It's annoying when a guest becomes vindictive when you ask them to leave despite your generosity.

The facts given were obtained and quoted from the Australian
Government's Department of Veteran Affairs. From their
"ANZAC Portal," dealing with WW1. Here is the link again:

http://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions/ww1/personnel/cultural-diversity

It shows Australia's military and service history.

Presenting facts does not equate
to hate or anything else and to suggest that id does is shameful,
mean-spirited n narrow, nasty, and negative.

Blame history, the government and the reality of those times,
not Foxy.

Foxy's love of this country and ANZAC Day and it's tradition is
well known on this forum. Her posting record speaks for itself.

Here is another link dealing with what ANZAC day
means to people. It's love not hate:

http://sbs.com.au/language/english/en/article/what-does-anzac-day-mean-to-migrants/shee55mqO

Foxy said- "These volunteers had to overcome Australia's racist White Australia Policy before they could be accepted."

Graham Young wrote an article yesterday in the main forum, and my response was going to be about racism.

Not opposing it, but supporting it.

Graham stated "I can't imagine our forebears accepting lockdowns and forced vaccinations, and I certainly couldn't see them accepting an identity card linking not just government accounts but private sector ones as well."

My comment wasn't going to specifically be about supporting racism for the 'right to offend' others, no.
But to draw a correlation between the time in this country people had the balls to defend their own interests as opposed to nowadays where the populace acts like they've all been neutered and given their daily glass of soy milk.

Maybe I'm just a racist and a toxic male?
The regressives like to create names for the people they wish to dislodge and disparage.

OOOOOps. Sorry for the typo.

Here's the link again:

http://sbs.com.au/language/english/en/article/what-does-anzac-day-mean-to-migrants/shee55mqO

Professor Bruce Charles Scates, Australian historian,
academic, novelist, and documentary film producer at
the Australian National University, who chaired the
Military and Cultural history group of the Anzac Centenary
Program has argued that the Gallipoli commemorations
often ignore the role of the many involved.

"We are in danger of returning to a narrow, nationalistic,
and self-congratulatory account. in our rush to
remember we run the risk of forgetting. We can also distort
the way we remember the events of 1915 by downplaying the
multi-national history of the conflict."

He tells us that "alongside Anglo-Celtic soldiers were
Indigenous Australian, Maoris, Senegalese, Zouaves, Sikhs,
Gurkhas and Newfoundlers, as well as Zionists from
Palestine who formed the Zionist Mule Corps.

Professor Bruce Charles Scates? I wouldn't trust anything coming out of universities now. Perhaps most at the Academic Universities are Woke/ Communists that advocate for the Anglosphere to become stateless through genocide and loss of self determination- they betray their community base through education immigration. Perhaps Foxy's family are some of those traitors to Anglo's that supported them in their time of need. An example to those that would support the weak- sometimes supporting the weak means supporting a weak and corrupt character that will stick a knife in your back as soon as it is turned. There is a movement to re-balance "liberal arts" to stop the woke/ communist creeps in such projects as UATX and Peterson University

In this age of feminism, minority rights- let us remember the many- perhaps the majority- of towns in Australia- that lost many young men- to protect our nation- under their concept of the ANZAC spirit- and the way of life and culture that we enjoyed- and enabled us to take it for granted.

This has nothing to do with feminism, communism et cetera.
Nobody is trying to denigrate the Anzacs or our traditions.
This is merely acknowledging the military service of our
country in which many were involved. It's acknowledging
them all, not only just a select few. and the facts quoted
came from the Department of Veterans Affairs and the
government's own Anzac portal.

You can believe whatever you like, but that does not change
the facts.

Lest We Forget!

"to protect our nation - under their concept of the ANZAC spirit"

"Though aspects of the legend have been criticised, there is general consensus on what is regarded as the 'Anzac spirit'. Anzac came to stand for the positive qualities which Australians have seen their forces show in war. These qualities are generally accepted to include endurance, courage, ingenuity, good humour, and mateship."
http://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/anzac/spirit

'To protect our nation'...
What happens when our leaders start acting like our enemies?

Which brings me to the Anzac 'spirit' thing:
'endurance, courage, ingenuity, good humour, and mateship'.
I don't know if any this exists anymore, in the spirit of ANZAC those things might've died along with patriotism.

- When the country's leaders decided Aussies didn't have a right to decide our future over and above what the UN wanted anymore.
- When the nations leaders embarked on a crusade to make Australians feel guilty about being Australians.
- When they gave jobs, services and other preferential treatment to immigrants over and above benefits existing Australians get.
- When Australians were made to feel like right-wing terrorists just for displaying the Australian flag.
And the flip side of that is that many of those once proud flag-waving Aussies, well they don't feel much want to wave the flag anymore, - because this country is not the country it once was when they were proud to wave it.
A small handful still do, maybe more out of defiance than anything.

Sad but true; but the woke liberal university types don't see this when they are busy talking down at you and explaining what they say our country is:
- And many of those 'Australians' haven't been in the country long enough to know anything - even though many were even actually born here.

The Anzac spirit is probably on its last legs:
Much of it probably also died with the death of Australian industry and manufacturing.
We don't make anything, what's to be proud of?
Mateship between Uber drivers or cafe baristas?

Our leaders are guilty of trying to put the Anzac spirit to death themselves.

ANZAC DAY is not about glorifying war.
It is about bearing witness to the aftermath of sacrifice.
It is about dedicating ourselves to a nation worth
fighting for. It is about thanking and acknowledging ALL
of their efforts back then and in many services today.

Lest We Forget!

Thanks Armchair Critic. Kudos.

ANZACS deserted thier posts more than any other nation in WWI and the numbers were not much different for the next one.

Is it that the Aussie spirit could not put up with the bull crap or was it that they were just not tollerant of being told what to do?

Or did they just not want to die for the monarchy that sent the convicts out?