Israel PM Benjamin Netanyahu should consider this is not the time for war because world food supply can not be sustained, especially during a nuclear world war.

Only now is formal science beginning to explore underwater ocean ecosystems using a significant (2023) scientific plan.
http://blogs.nasa.gov/earthexpeditions/2023/06/06/a-day-in-the-life-of-the-ocean-currents/

Surely, discussion about sustaining world food supply linked to war and climate must not be archived and shut down, especially in times of free speech.

Urgent solutions rely on proper diagnosis.
Netanyahu should consider whole world ocean fish supply and underwater ecosystems are already devastated. Forget surviving on fish protein for essential nutrition during war.
Disease will rage worldwide.

Perhaps JF Aus you could try directing your rant to Hamas, the people who started the rockets.

Don't get this one at all. Israel is fighting for its existence. Not a lot to do with climate, food, or anything else right now.

On this climate caper continued thread here and now, can we take up discussion by going back in time to when Hasbeen commented about integrity, involving critically serious situations?
Am I correct? Or is Hasbeen dangerously incorrect?

Various issues are involved. Including new phenomena involving world food supply and weather ecosystems.
Time wasted during years of climate debate in parliament, all wasting time and billions, while study into Agricultural Competitiveness - Abbott government White Paper - Supporting Information, has been ignored.

Now there are moves to stop the export of live animals to malnourished hungry Middle East people who cannot afford refrigeration. For example, hunger breeds unrest including for the people of Gaza.
Inland water and reducing and recycling the fresh water nutrient load involves engineering of massive benefit to farmers and graziers.

Productive export-generating economic stimulus is needed for presently troubled Australian graziers and farmers, whereas hindrance is a threat to world protein food supply sustainability. Right now.
Ignorance of the situation is absurd.

Sewage nutrient pollution is the fundamental problem, not CO2.

How did the world ocean get into the advanced state of devastation it is now in?
More than 50% of world ocean surface water has already changed color, from blue to green or more green than during known History.
How exactly does CO2 cause ocean color change? Science please.

After posting this brief I will add another post and evidence to indicate my view of how Australian east coast sewage nutrient pollution reaches the Great Barrier Reef proper and damages coral.

Meanwhile, billions are still being spent on CO2 climate GBR capers, NOT on the fundamental cause of damage to coral, or on economically stimulating solutions.
Plumbing is already a huge industry, so too is world agriculture, farming, grazing.

War can really disrupt food production, especially if rivers and the whole ocean are almost empty of food. Seriously.
Att: HAMAS & Netanyahu and Biden and Putin etc.

If I am incorrect in any relevant way, please provide evidence of substance. Comment is appreciated.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10223&page=10

Hasbeen says:
Obviously JF Aus you have no idea of how the east coast currents & tidal flows protect the main bulk of the great barrier reef from anything coming from the Oz continent.

Hasbeen,
Australian east coast sediment is known to be dispersed from waters of Victoria into waters north of Fraser Island where the heavy sand falls out from the longshore sediment dispersal system and drops over the Continental shelf.
Fresher surface water with bonded nutrients in the sediment dispersal current continues northwards.

Point source sewage nutrient is dumped daily into the Australian east coast sediment dispersal system without being measured and managed.

When dumped, fresh wastewater with bonded dissolved nutrient rises to the ocean surface and is swept northwards by prevailing surface winds, including into waters between the Swain Reefs and Fraser Island where an ocean eddy turning clockwise is postulated to exist.
The eddy-like current is considered driven primarily by the East Australian Current flowing southwards outside the GBR, that current touching the eastern side of the eddy, glancing, pushing and turning the eddy clockwise.
Quantities of surface water are flung outwards onto the Swain Reefs.

Prevailing southeast winds push the fresher alongshore surface water
northwards into the Great Barrier Reef lagoon or beyond.
Queensland coast point-sources add to the nutrient load.
Dissolved P&N nutrient over-load proliferates over abundance of algae, reducing sunlight and essential photosynthesis, damaging seagrass.

The once natural flow of Australian east coast ALONGSHORE current flow once transported natural nutrients, feeding and forming GBR coral.

Virtually all Aus east coast estuary and bay and lagoon seagrass nurseries for small fish supposed to supply food for migratory tuna and other ocean fish to sustain health of island people, are gone, devastated.

The serious issue however is about people, not C02, not plastic, not extinction, not nuclear.
Adequate nutrition for seafood-dependent humans is the primary issue.

Climate caper lobbyists falsely claiming ocean damage is caused by greenhouse gas are wasting vital time. Real solutions are needed.
Absolutely urgently.

If any matter above is incorrect please provide evidence.

John C Fairfax

Hi JF Aus,
"Now there are moves to stop the export of live animals to malnourished hungry Middle East people who cannot afford refrigeration."

I actually agree with the cessation of live exports.
After what I've seen of their treatment of sheep and other animals I can't in good conscience support their export.
- Learn how to treat the animals with respect and decency before their lives are ended, and the live exports can resume.
Otherwise if you wish to mistreat them, find someone else to buy them from.

"How did the world ocean get into the advanced state of devastation it is now in?"
- A combination of over-fishing and the pumping of human effluent into the ocean grasses just offshore where they breed.

Obviously JF Aus you have never been on a boat on the east coast of Oz. You are talking the same kind of greenie bull as the global warming scam.

I have sailed 7 Hobart races as a navigator. Knowledge of the currents is critical top performance. I have sailed Sydney to to the northern reef more times than I can count, & know which way the free ride of current flow runs.

Many years ago Jim Hardy when briefing a bunch preparing for a Sydney Brisbane told the assembled to sail in close to the beaches to get out of the south going current. Answering a question about how close in his answer was, "If you can't hear the dogs barking, you are to far out"

I spent years running tourists around the reef, & gained a lot of information from the professional reef fishermen who spends most of their lives "out the Swains", & other good fishing grounds. I suggest you try talking to some of them, rather than academics who rarely see actual reef, but spend their time mucking around with big fish tanks in Townsville & other places.

Scientists only ever study something that results in more funding for scientists. I wonder if any of them ever studied the effects of antifouling paint instead of just blaming the farmers for polluting the waters with pesticides ?
If Govt were really as concerned as they proclaim, why don't they offer facilities to clean boat hulls rather than use antifouling ?
Climate is uncontrollable but pollution can be curbed !

You are drawing a long bow there Indyvidual, & granting paint chemists more ability than they deserve.

I used to have to pay a small fortune to divers to scrub the bottoms of the 320 passenger high speed International Catamarans starting less than 3 months after their annual dry docking & anti fouling. The marine growth on the anti fouled bottoms would start after 8 or 9 weeks, & be heavy enough to have dramatically boosted fuel consumption after about 9 weeks.

The permitted anti fouling coatings just aren't that effective against marine organisms.

Hasbeen,
Would prop speed be less harmful or is the production of it also highly polluting ?

The doomsayers have been telling us we are about to run out of food for the pat 250 years. They were wrong then. They are wrong now. They've always been wrong.

We have more food now PER CAPITA than at any time in history. Yet the doomsayers plug away, unconcerned with their previous erroneous claims (likely most of them are blissfully unaware of them) and when those claims fail to materialise, they'll continue to plug away with new an just as erroneous claims.

Its comforting to see consistency in the world.

It's amazing to observe that supposedly educated people are dumbed down.

Toxic antifouling was abandoned about 40 years ago and replaced by ablative antifouling that has a weak surface, causing marine growth to fall off instead of being poisoned by toxic antifoul.
Hardness of ablative antifoul is determined during purchase linked to prop speed and power, soft antifoul for slow craft, hard antifoul for fast vessels.

IGNORANCE OF FOOD AVAILABILITY MIGHT BE A SIN.
Fish used to be abundant and free.
Fish and chips used to be a staple for poor people but now due to high cost of fresh healthy fish, not the antibiotic aquaculture type, fresh fish is now a virtual luxury.
My God how dumbed down can people get?

Affordability of fresh fish is linked to available supply and intake of ESSENTIAL affordable protein DAILY including for whole families.
Fish cost on the CPI has been tweaked to hide reality of impact on the economy.

Mass starvation of seabirds has been occurring. Emaciated whales are washing up worldwide.
Search: whales starving.
Search: seabirds starving.

In Solomon Islands the fish commodity based barter system has generally collapsed leading to hardship and unrest resulting in CCP security being invited into the region.

Various nations are having to travel vast distances to find and catch fish these days.
Search: China fishing fleet.

Increase in NCD and early death among seafood dependent Island people, stunting, stillbirth, small babies, and need for a special operating theatre for Diabetes II amputations ONLY, all coincide with fish depletion involving amino protein deficiency undernutrition in Solomon Islands (and I think elsewhere).

Search: diabetes II malnutrition undernutrition.

Wake up MSM.

We have more food now PER CAPITA than at any time in history.
mhaze,
Well, thaqt depends on your definition of food. There are a lot of things you can eat but are they nourishing ? Look at vegans, they eat what they believe is good for them but it doesn't appear to do anything for brain cells.
Same as alcohol, it can save your live in sterilising but knocks brain cells dead. Marijuana too is credited with medicinal powers but look what it has done to so many brains !
Fast food is another one along with sugar-laden drinks !

"Well, thaqt depends on your definition of food. "

Substitute the word 'calories' for 'food. I was dumbing it down to suit the current audience.

We grow more calories now PER CAPITA than at any time in history.

Would that be a lack of fish, or a lack of fishing JF Aus?

It was in the mid 70s that the diet of much of PNG & the Solomons changed with the introduction of rice. Much easier scooping out a cup of rice, than digging gardens & catching fish.

In the mid 70s I sailed down through the Solomons a number of times, & was amazed to see this change, not only on plantations, but villages also.

I also found much of the traditional; fishing trips had been abandoned, due the the loss of their large canoes.They no longer produced the big 70+ft canoes that acted as mother ships on fishing expeditions.

I acted as mother ship on a few of these trips where almost entire village populations would travel to unpopulated reasonably remote islands to fish for a week at a time, smoking their catch to take home, thus augmenting the local supply.

I recently did a google earth trip over much of my old stamping grounds. Most of the islands have hugely expanded populations. One atoll I know very well, 30 miles long & 8 wide, with 60 islands exhibited over 3 times the number of houses, & 4 dozen canoes, against the dozen back in the 70s. This was common in most of the islands. Perhaps population has exceeded their food supply.

Obviously this is not considered as it would not suit the narrative.

mhaze,

Calories are a measurement of energy where I am referring to shortage of essential amino acid protein nutrition.

Plenty of food? Are you sure?
If all humans in the world sat down for 3 meals a day there would not be enough food, especially not enough animal protein that is essential.
Vegetarians get their essential nutrients from mixing legumes and nuts at the same meal but worldwide supply of that mix is very limited.

Hasbeen.
I agree with what you say about the 1970's but the situation has changed since then. Supply and availability red affordability has absolutely changed.

Climate change is suddenly being blamed for ocean fish and ecosystem devastation but that caper non-sense does not show how.

There is no narrative here.
Just insight about many seafood dependent people in big trouble because academic literature and thinking by people like yourself can't see the fish depletion and impact and solutions.

We have heard of the very large fishing fleets from China causing
problems up near the Philippines.
Cauld they be the cause of smaller catches ?

Incidentally JF Aus, have you ever heard about the sand pumping stations, used to get sand from south of the Tweed to the Gold Coast, & again to get sand north to replenish Noosa beach. It just doesn't happen naturally.

Hasbeen,
That sand pumping is not so incidental.

Current flow transporting that sand northwards along the shore area is the current transporting the nutrient pollution into GBR waters.
That flow is the sediment dispersal system.

Noosa Beach is impacted because so much sand is being extracted along the coast to build cities, roads, bridges etc in NSW and SE Queensland.

For a research base I built a floating boatshed and moored it for 5 years in the Marine Stadium at the Gold Coast Seaway, just 200 meters from a seaway pump house.
I lived aboard there while testing cause of seagrass loss and how to regenerate seagrass.

In hindsight I would have preferred sailing the Pacific out there where you were.

Kudos all.

Kudos is appreciated but not essential
Solutions to malnourished stillborn babies and major organ failure among our Pacific Islands neighbours, and understanding toward fishermen and farmers, are however absolutely essential.

Present day available and affordable nutrition to strengthen immunity and to repair cells is hardly ever if at all mentioned by our ABC and other MSM.

Impact of body waste from 8 billion humans seems to be unnoticed, while thinking about sea level in 100 years is noticed, and solutions are even being planned.

Climate science is incomplete. Climate science not aware of the percentage of melted polar and glacier fresh water evaporating into atmosphere instead of adding to sea level rise.
Nuclear war and nuclear tsunamis seem more of a threat than CO2 emissions.

And the climate caper blah blah continues.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-17/boatshed-rising-sea-levels-concern-for-coastal-infrastructure/102969454

JF Aus- Impact of body waste from 8 billion humans seems to be unnoticed, while thinking about sea level in 100 years is noticed, and solutions are even being planned.

Answer- Yes 8 billion is too many people on the Earth in 13 years it will be 9 billion- and still the woke argue about green energy- while the problem gets bigger. At some stage the population will kill the green energy people and burn their bodies for heating.

What is the most urgent to address, climate capers or devastated world ocean fish stocks and amino protein food supply?

http://phys.org/news/2023-10-factory-fishing-antarctica-krill-cornerstone.html

Cloud presence and density impacts essential photosynthesis.

Dense cloud has been observed extending all the way from Sydney to Brisbane and about two thirds of the way to Solomon Islands.

Is there reason of substance to shun questions about cloud linked to world weather and climate?

Does climate science measure and record change to the percentage of melted polar and glacier ice water evaporating into atmosphere and forming cloud instead of adding to sea level rise data?

Is change of cloud area and cloud density over our planet measured and recorded?