In the shadow of the Voice excitement another allegation of indigenous Vice has come to light. The Department of Social Services is investigating allegations of misuse of credit cards and overspending at aboriginal charities that are "caring for elders" in remote South Australia.

The allegations concern Jim Golden-Brown - once a NSW anti-corruption (!) officer - who manages $20 millions of government Aboriginal Community Services money.

Before Mr. Golden-Brown was appointed chairman of ACS, he had been sacked from another indigenous charity, and a probe into his spending there on overseas trips and booze is still under way.

There has been more than a decade of warnings raised about this person "at the highest ranks of the government".

Three former AFP detectives were sidelined from investigations by DSS. Government Services Minister, Bill Shorten, has been asked to intervene.

For reasons not given by Australian Financial Review, Mr. Golden-Brown changed his name from James Sydney Sturgeon in 2012.

Would the Voice stop the Vice?

There is a lengthy article at https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/indigenous-charity-head-s-trail-of-sackings-probes-and-misused-cash which would make Ned Kelly blush and put him out of the history books.

Being investigated. No proof. Remember: Innocent until proven guilty

Accountability and transparency are probably far more important. The Voice could make the expenditure of public money more obscure and so make it less likely to help indigenous Australians in need.

I hope that a no vote will also precipitate the demise of welcome/acknowledgement of country and "Sorry" card activities for little kids. It will be good to bury apartheid and celebrate a future of equality.

Even the ABC is reporting on fraud and corruption allegations in indigenous organisations: 44 of them; all receiving hundreds of millions of dollars in grants from state governments. SA sweating off on a state Voice until after the federal referendum.

And, what about all the others with their snouts in the $40 billion trough?

Would the Voice find them and deal with them?

In typical anti- aboriginal bias ttbn says;

"And, what about all the others with their snouts in the $40 billion trough? Would the Voice find them and deal with them?"

Wanting to create the impression that if there's one bad Aboriginal then they are all bad Aboriginals. No one wants to see taxpayer funds abused, and when billions of dollars are involved the opportunity for fraud will exists, and all effort should be made to eradicate it. Billions of dollars of taxpayer money was misused during the Covid pandemic as the Noalition government splashed money about like drunken sailors to their mates down at the big end of town.

The Voice is proposed as a consultative body, and not as a policeman, so why do you ask that question.

There's simply too much insincerity within the Voice movement ! Will it be worse if Yes wins ?
There are many who can't see that even now !

Ok here is a fair question;

If ATSIC was a failure, ultimately on its less than hidden (apparent) corruption, with all its alleged smouldering ends, what has changed now that a mirrored commission called the VOICE plans to succeed where ATSIC was disbanded as a corrupt failure?

A man with a very bad record of corruption kept
getting promoted. The Voice can't be
held responsible. Who kept giving him the jobs?

The Voice has nothing to do with this corrupt person.

Regarding the Voice - a few thoughts:

It's been a long journey for the Voice. The most recent
phase began nearly six and a half years ago at Uluru where
250 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples issued
a remarkable set of words - The Uluru Statement From The Heart.
after 12 regional dialogues representing the largest consultation
process ever of First Nations people, the National Convention
delegates - issued the proposal to the Australian people.

In the meantime a corrupt man who happened to be Aboriginal
kept being promoted and doing bad things. Totally separate
from the Voice. One has nothing to do with the other.

In any case, the control of the Voice will be in the hands of
Parliament. The Voice will be a non-binding advisory body.
Parliament will have the control.

The Voice is run for all the wrong reasons. Racial hatred, unwarranted revenge, made-up indignation, feigned discrimination & lack of self-drive.
Were the Voice run for improving the lives of real indigenous by offering to build a mentality more suitable with the desires for acquiring modern benefits & commodities rather than leftist ideology by faux indigenous, then I'd say the Voice would enjoy 100% support, alas !

One idiot brings up "anti-aboriginal bias". That's the same idiot who thinks everyone who is against the Voice "hates" blackfellas. Anyone with an opinion different from the idiot's is a 'hater' according to him.

But that’s the idiot for you. Nothing to be done there.

The other idiot says that "The Voice can't be held responsible" for the alleged crook. Well, stagger me! How profound! The Voice is still an "idea", so obviously it's not responsible. But, be idiotic and ignore the question.

And of course the accused (not "corrupt" until proven to be so) man is an aboriginal. Aboriginal organisations are full of aboriginals.

Nothing to be done there either.

Our society is tolerant of idiots. In fact, the political class often finds them useful. Albanese certainly finds them useful, sitting back and allowing them to bark because he doesn't know any more about the Voice than they do.

Thanks for the sensible, non-ideological comments Fester, Diver Dan and Indyvidual. 4:2

Dear oh dear. So if you have a different opinion to
the instigator of this discussion you are an idiot and
are personally attacked. That's not very encouraging.
Perhaps this discussion should have come with - " Only
viewpoints that agree with mine - will be accepted!"

As for answering the question? It should be fairly obvious
to any thinking, rational person that a non-binding
advisory body controlled by Parliament will "stop
the vice." After all Parliament is made up of people of
all political persuasions who will see to it that certain
standards are met. At least, one would hope.

You just keep on looking in a mirror at yourself and fooling yourself that it is someone else, you hypocrite. You are the Queen of Hypocrites, accusing others of the things you are famous for: bullying, nagging everyone who is not a Leftist crank like yourself.

You've frightened off all the few decent women posters we used to have. You would have been an embarrassment to them. Now, you are just an embarrassment to yourself.

You sneer at me because my threads don't get much interest, but you overlook the fact that most of your responses are against you, or from the other two of your kind, piggybacking with their similar venom.

To all but you-know-who.

I wasn't entirely correct when I said the aboriginal industry was full of aboriginals. We really don't know anymore who is actually aboriginal; thanks to woke cowardice there is no genetic testing.

Megan Davis, one of the leading culprits involved in the Voice, is only 12% aboriginal, according to her family tree.

Even Jacinta Price is only half aboriginal. And there are many others who are acknowledged as not being the real thing, but who are still getting away with it.

I would put my last dollar on many of the 'aboriginals' behind the Voice and in the industry are no more aboriginal than I am.

ttbn,

I don't have kisses on my mirror old chap.
And it's never your fault is it? You don't
see yourself as others see you. And as for
driving any one away. Nah. I still maintain
many contacts of the people that used to post
here. They're actually surprised that I've
stayed for this long because of posters such
as yourself.

Still, name-calling and labeling people is not
something any of us should be indulging in.
It's a cheap and ugly act of cowardice done
while hiding behind anonymity to attack others.
Anonymous insults hold no value.


I was happy when you said you'd leave me alone.
Yay!
But you can't help yourself. And of course it's all
my fault. Well, guess what - you can stick your
opinions and labels where the sun doesn't shine.
I'm here to stay. Get used to it.

BTW ttbn -

What's your ancestry? Irish I bet.

I don't have kisses on my mirror old chap.
Foxy,
Judging by your history of hypocrisy here I'd say you do & you're most likely voting No.

Most people, including you, don't see themselves as others do, but you can't be expected to know that, given your limited knowledge of just about everything.

Yes. Change of plan. You are too insensitive and lacking in self-awareness to get the message; so, when it suits me, I might point out your childish behaviour from time to time.

A big BS to your maintaining contacts. A bit like your 'original' poetry and children's books, you can claim anything in the anonymity of your room. You don't even have original opinions, let alone creative skills. Good old Google every time.

Good to see that you are "here to stay", reminding us of your nonsense, and never letting us forget the sort of enemies that we have in Australia.

As for your racist comment about the Irish, no: I don't have any Irish in me.

Indyvidual,

Certainly has tickets on herself even if she doesn't kiss her image - i.e if Foxy is a she and not a dog fox. Given all the problems from that side of politics with gender dysphoria, problems with identifying a woman, and a learned judge in court saying that a male, identifying as a female, flashed HER penis in a women's toilet, anything can happen. The Left is turning Australia into a madhouse, and there is no real Right these days to fight back.

Scottish/Aboriginal Linda Burney has been caught on a hot mic complaining about the 'awful racism' she has faced in Parliament. No proof given, unlike evidence that she has never answered an Opposition question on the Voice, but has read out a piece of dogma totally irrelevant to the questions that she obviously doesn't have an answer to - just like the rest of the Yes side, in government and out of government.

The latest poll (today) on voter priorities:

92% Cost of living
73% Housing
69% Jobs

Only 2% of voters ranked the Voice as second or third priorities.

Only 4% rated it fourth.

Given the relative unimportance of the Voice, voters might be pissed off on October 14 having to vote on the the Voice that means so much to a government that is not performing on cost of living, housing and jobs.

ttbn,

Why do you assume I "don't know anything?"
You don't know what I know. You also infer
that I'm uneducated. Again - you don't know
my level of education, my life experiences,
or anything else about me. Yet again you keep
blaming me for what you have created in your mind.
You love to set standards for others while
neglecting them for yourself.

Whatever you condemn - you do yourself.

BTW ttbn - what "racist" comment about the
Irish did I make?

Do tell.

Talking about the Irish.

Anyone remember Dave Allen?

A master storyteller. Razor sharp wit.

He said Ireland was the best place in the world for
directions. People will say to you:

"I wouldn't start from here if I was you."

Foxy

If you think that you can get me to take part in one of your eristic arguments you are wrong. I have more interesting things to do.

I suggest that you volunteer to work at a childcare centre, where you could argue all day long with pre-schoolers on your own mental level.

Come on children at the back of the class, start the debate! The debate: does the Voice have guarantees against take over by corrupt elite aboriginals or pseudo aboriginals? I would suggest look at the background of those from Uluru and see if they can be trusted, Like the Marxist socialists Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo, [a non-aboriginal]. How do they view the future of the Voice?

Josephus

Debates mean nothing. Voting does. We will vote in 3 weeks time, and hopefully the the NO vote will win. If it doesn't, Australians, except for the power-mad crooks, will be an unpleasant place to live - for the Yes voters as well as the No voters.

Dear Fester,

You pontificate: "The Voice could make the expenditure of public money more obscure and so make it less likely to help indigenous Australians in need.

I hope that a no vote will also precipitate the demise of welcome/acknowledgement of country and "Sorry" card activities for little kids. It will be good to bury apartheid and celebrate a future of equality."

What a silly post.

The Voice will not disburse funds. Rather it is far more likely to better direct effort with more efficiency by giving appropriate advice to government.

Your totally ungracious and blinkered views on welcome to country ceremonies which are becoming part of wider Australian culture is piss poor.

But it is your last point which is just obscene given the continuing and in some cases worsening life outcomes and disadvantage facing so many Indigenous kids. Theirs is not a future of equality. You know it yet chose to ignore it and offer up a platitude instead.

Nasty.

Again I reiterate that it is my belief that the vast majority of 'NO' voters, and there are millions Australia wide, are not necessarily racialist. The 'NO' voter in the main is misguided and prejudiced against Aboriginal Australians, has a blinkered view based on misinformation and stereo-typing. Unfortunately Australians may not be mature enough to embrace the true principles of fairness and equality for their black brothers and sisters, come October 14th they may well retain the status quo. The group of old white men on the forum who are arguing strongly for a "NO' vote, are certainly bigoted, and do sometimes wander over the line into the area of racism, but they too might simply be conservative misguided fools fearful of change.

I have looked at the track record of Peter Dutton, and he is certainly and educated racists.

Bleating racism is literally the only option left as an argument for the racists !

ttbn,

Thank you for your suggestion about a child-care center.
However, I already do Storytime sessions at a municipal
library and run book-clubs for school children. Plus I
have my own grand-kids who visit regularly. Again,
I welcome your positive suggestions.

ttbn,

I've also been invited to be a volunteer at an
aged care facility associated with a large public
hospital. I was there as part of a Transition
Care Program run by the hospital when I had my
fall recently. It seems that they miss me and
want me back. I miss them as well. So I've got
a lot on my plate.

Interesting discussion. It seems that there are some double standards at play here. To what extent has parliamentary democracy at both state and federal level been able to stop the vice? Why have so many people called for some form of independent body to investigate corruption on the part of our politicians?
Anyone who has followed the way the Brexit vote was handled and much of Trump's political success will recognize that the No campaign is following a well trodden path of misinformation and scare tactics. Furthermore increasingly there is evidence that there are players outside of Australia who would prefer a no result and are busy creating mischief.
Who are these outside forces? Organizations like those funded by Koch brothers. The challenge for them is thatif the Voice is successful it will create a precedent that governments need to consult and listen to those people impacted by any decisions that are made.
So dont be fooled, a No Vote is a far bigger threat than a Yes vote.

Foxy sure likes talking about herself.

The Australian political class is bad and getting worse. That means the Australian population is bad and getting worse; they enable the political class.

Generally, a first time government gets a second term in Australia, so forgiving are Australians. Let's hope there is an exception this time. The Opposition is pretty useless, but at least it is not downright dangerous like the Albanese government.

Next time you worry about the Communists in Beijing, think about the Communists in Canberra.

Kamahl has changed his voting intentions again - back to NO. There's comedy to be found, even in a serious matter, which the Voice is: a threat to democracy and the peace of Australia.

Australia threw off race identity long ago. The Voice is an attempt to 're-racialise' our society.

I note that Baygon is back, trying to cloud the issue with irrelevancies like Brexit and Donald Trump. Worse, he is misinforming us on misinformation. More comedy.

Are we taking ourselves too seriously? The 17 million plus voters who will make the decision on October 14 will not be influenced by a small group they have never heard of. Nobody here has said they will change their vote because of someone else's opinion. The polls say Yes is doomed. Albanese is confident. Jacinta Price says don't take anything for granted; hers is probably the best advice.

ttbn certainly likes knocking people who respond to
his comments or try to join in the discussion.
That says more about him than it does about the people
he tries to demean.

That unfortunately illustrates a low-brow lazy disposition
and a fundamentally dishonest nature.

Sigh.

As I said, Foxy: try the sandpits if you want to win arguments. You might stand a chance against the kiddies. Although you would have to lift you game above the one you play on OLO.

ttbn,

I'm not out to win arguments.

But I suppose a sand=pit is better than a snake-pit.

Thanks for the suggestion.

So dont be fooled, a No Vote is a far bigger threat than a Yes vote.
Baygon,
I take it you haven't been around for very long ?

Hi Baygon,

Welcome back.

Glad to see you posting again.

Dear Steele,

What is nasty is coercion and a cult leader pushing indigenous apartheid. I believe in equality, not virtue signalling.

Forty billion a year according to Kamahl in a discussion with yes supporters who disputed the sum. Kamahl was right. That a sum like that cannot solve some problems raises more questions about the spenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH4dd4QRYoI

Kamahl wasn't given a chance from these brainwashed morons. Hamish & his two girl sidekicks don't interview people, they bombard them with their indoctrinated opinions !
They're just so typical of the largely teenage non-indigenous noncontributing-take all crowd ! It doesn't dawn on them that Yes is for no effort or input & that's what the revenue producing No crowd is objecting to, not objecting to the recognition of the Aborigines !

It will be lucky to crack trirty Indy. As for my objection to acknowledgement/welcome to country, I can offer a joke to explain:

"The Führer visited a lunatic asylum. All the patients were told to stand in a row, and they were given instructions on how to salute him. When Hitler approached they all raised their right hands and shouted: ‘Heil Hitler!’ Only the last man in the row uttered no sound and did not raise his hand. Red with rage Hitler stepped up to him and shouted: ‘Don’t you know who I am? Why don’t you raise your hand?’ ‘I beg your pardon,’ replied the man politely, ‘I am the doctor. I’m not a lunatic’.’"

https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/resistance-responses-collaboration/non-conformity/refusal-to-salute/

The Yes activists are unaware of the Uluru agenda, it was the Uluru constitution of Blak sovereignty, and the formation of the Black National Government of elders to advise the White Government of their needs. [their agenda].

They do not see themselves represented in the elected Westminster Government, even though they have eleven members in Parliament. As tribal conflicting families in 1788 they were not a united Nation, and it has taken till now for several educated tribes to realize International Law and sovereignty. The Marxist influencers attending Uluru Marcia Langton and the non aboriginal Thomas Mayo back it. They are the darlings of Anthony Albanese.

The agenda is a transition from two Nations [first nations?] and the colonial settlers currently represented by two flags to a government controlled by the Black unelected Elders. The Voice is the first move if confirmed by the Citizens.

"The Yes activists are unaware of the Uluru agenda". (Josephus)

The most unaware being the idiot front man, Albanese. The fall guy, too stupid to realise he has been used.

You don't get quality from a 32% government.

Who lost the last election?

And how many people turned up last week-end for
the No campaign rallies compared to the Yes
campaign walks the previous week-end.

Apples and oranges - if we're going to make
comparisons and predictions.

The Voice is not about our current PM.
It's about our First Nations people and the
future of this country to consider.

Prime Ministers come and go.

"And how many people turned up last week-end for
the No campaign rallies compared to the Yes
campaign walks the previous week-end."?

I'd guess that cults measure success by the number of enthusiasts they can get to a rally. I don't get the vibe of either cults or rallys.

Who lost the last election?
Foxy,
The outnumbered common sense !

Spot on.

Common sense prevailed!

Common sense prevailed!
Foxy,
Not yet, next election !

The question is "Would The Voice Stop The Vice?"
Going by the usefulness of the activists involved & the recent examples shown by the Yes movement and, in the interest of the future of this Nation, the answer is a resounding No !

Dear Fester,

The 40 billion figure is the 33 billion of the productivity commission in 2017 with inflation added by the malcontents. It has not been validated. But you know that yet continue to flog it.

Around 27 billion of the original figure was for services all Australians can access like Medicare and primary school education.

There is no doubt that due to poverty and remoteness many of those in Indigenous communities access those services at a greater rate. There is no evidence to say they do so at a greater rate than any other communities of similar socio-economic ranking.

The figure also included incarceration costs.

The Voice wants to work to address these poverty impacts and in doing so will reduce the need for tax payer funded services by Indigenous Australians.

Why on earth don't you?

Better education, more jobs, better health outcomes, less crime will all markedly contribute to reducing the greater call on those services. It should be in the interests of All Australians that that happens.

Why isn't it in yours?

Or are you simply more comfortable with keeping them in their place?

Fester

Some people are obsessed with numbers: how many made fools of themselves on the streets; how many responses to a thread, and so on.

The the only numbers that count are the votes citizens cast in the secrecy they are entitled to.

The amount wasted on the aboriginal industry is correct at $39.5 billion, about the same as the defence budget. Fact checkers like RMIT will come up with what whoever pays them to come up with.

Keep up the good work!

The amount wasted on the aboriginal industry is correct at $39.5 billion,
ttbn,
85% of that doesn't go to Aborigines, it goes to incompetent & or corrupt bureaudroids including the fakes who call themselves Aboriginal i.e. the ones pushing the Voice !

Indyvidual

I don't know where it goes but, shamefully, neither does the political class. I referred to the allegations against one man involved in the industry, and other organisations are being investigated.

We need clarity on what is going on. Those people responsible for this ridiculous referendum are a disgrace and extremely stupid and arrogant.

ttbn

Thank you, but I don't think I'd ever convince anyone of anything. I think of the forum as a place for people to have a bit of a rant about the problems they see with the world. It is quite cathartic for me, and as I said to Paul, no matter how silly we might we might find one another's opinions, we at least care enough about things to come here and share them.

Yes, nearly 40 billion, or almost twice the money spent per capita on non-indigenous Australians. Excluding about 97% of the Australian population from control of some of those funds to help indigenous Australians does not seem sensible.

We need clarity on what is going on
ttbn,
I've seen good people who tried that being sacrificed ! The Peter Principle brigade backed by their unions will do anything to prevent a domino effect toppling corruption & rebuild with a less corrupt or incompetent clique !
Positions (some token) with huge salaries are not voluntarily vacated no matter how much is wasted & could be used on more important projects.

Fester

Don't worry about convincing people. I've been here almost as long as OLO has existed. I've seen a lot of people come and go. What I have never seen is anyone "convince" anyone else to change the opinions they started out with.

I'm amazed that there are still people who think that they can change the minds of other people - the sort that, once wound up, never run down.

Most people past 30 never change their minds. It's good to be able to have a say; that's all as far as I'm concerned.

Stop the Vice! Albo wants to use the Voice to legislate it into the constitution for gods sake.

The Gap is the lifeblood of the activists, get rid of the activists & the gap will close !

Unfortunately resources don't get to where they're
supposed to. And as long as the control remains in
the hands of government agencies and decisions are
made without Indigenous consultation - as long as
our First Nations people are not allowed to have a
Voice - this gap will continue.

As for "activists"- the most powerful of those are
the ones currently in power who have all the
control.

Foxy,
You haven't a clue do you ?

I haven't a clue how the Voice referendum will end.
But that's all right. When I started out on this
journey I didn't know all that much about our
First Nations people. However, what I've learned
and discovered along the way has made it all
worthwhile.

what I've learned
and discovered along the way has made it all
worthwhile.
Foxy,
Where have you learnt & discovered ?

"Vice" you say...what a farce ! As an indigenous person, in 2010 working in the mining town of Gove - (or 'Nhulunbuy' for those latte quaffing tossers in Edgecliff, Subiaco and Torah wanting me to be more correct), I observed personally, the taxi drivers soliciting sex from underage girls (and occasionally boys) as payment for their fares back to their nearby communities. I reported this to the relevant authorities, only to be advised "...not to pursue the issue ..." Indeed I did pursue the issue - to the point of going in person to ABC Darwin who similarly let me know in no uncertain terms, that the situation I observed was a political hot potato. More "bread and circuses" from the Marxist-Leninist led ALP and its sycophants. Your so called squawking voice will do nothing to empower those 8, 9 & 10 yr olds I observed being driven away to be later abused. I wonder how many more children could have been and were actually abused for the fact political expediencies were forefront in the minds of those academics in 'FIRE' at Charles Darwin University, the ABC, local elders and NT politicians ?

The Global Peace Index has released its list of the world's safest countries.

Australia doesn't make the top 10. It comes in at 22nd. That's before Albanese decided to divide the country with the Voice. Who knows where we will rank in future with the place now firmly divided and nasty no matter whether it's Yes or No on 14th. October.

The UK is 37th. on the list, and the U.S 131st.

Indyvidual,

You ask what have I learned?

An amazing amount of stuff - too large to list all
of it here. Suffice to say that it's been a journey of
discovery that I would not have made had all these issues
not been raised out in public. They forced me to do
research, delve into the subject matter, go through
archival records, oral histories, lots of books, material
in national libraries, and museums, and the list goes on.

I learned a great deal about the history of our country,
and not just from one perspective. That has made it
all worthwhile.

It's always worthwhile when we learn and grow. And try to keep
open minds about issues.

Albie, I saw the same things in The Alice when I was there, taxi drivers coming with a carton of Grog for sex with the young girls. The aboriginal elders of the community agreed with this so no complaint could be raised.

However, every night there was violence in the community as they were drunk and took to each other with axes and metal poles. If a girl refused, she was beaten up. The mission I was involved in was beside the community and a young man from the mission constantly stepped in to bring calm. That was before 1967.

With their desire to live in the bush and practice their isolated culture nothing will change. They know nothing of boundaries and self discipline while they remain outside Western Culture. The Voice assumes they will always be disadvantaged and permanently needing special attention. A constitutional amendment will make them victims forever, this is what the Marxist want to divide our country.

Josephus,

I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney. I lived in
a white-Anglo neighbourhood. We had neighbours who used
to beat their wives, play the pokies, come home drunk
and lock their kids in sheds in their backyards overnight
whose screams echoed until morning.

As for sexual abuse? There was plenty of that around as well.
As a matter of fact many of the daughters got pregnant
and left home.

But what does any of this have to do with the Voice referendum?
We can try to match each other with various stories and
experiences - so what. All that is now being asked of us is
to give our First Nations people a seat at the table - so
that they can advice government prior to making laws and
policies for them - as to what will work in their communities.
This is not about money - or taking anything away from the
rest of Australia - ir trying to divide any of us.

Our world won't change - but we just may make it better for
our Indigenous people.

Surely you should be able to see that?

Josephus,

If Black problems in this country keep on trying to
be solved by white people in positions of power -
then nothing will change. This has been done in
the past for decades. It has not worked. So why
on earth not give them a Voice and try something
new?

Dear Foxy,

"If Black problems in this country keep on trying to
be solved by white people in positions of power -
then nothing will change."

To borrow from Marcia Langton, to deconstruct the arguments of Yes proponents, one finds them founded on the principles of "them and us" and "we were here first". I am concerned that these are also principles shared with people opposed to immigration and multiculturalism.

As I believe in the equality of human beings, I think your comment quite silly. If you want to solve a problem you are more likely to do so with 100% of you brain than with 3% of it.

Foxy,
I'd have liked to hear 'where' you experienced all this enlightenment because if it was in libraries, Unis & books I'm afraid that whatever you believe you learnt does not offer you any insight into the reality of it all.
This has been the crux of the problem all along, open-mouthed, wide-eyed academic hangers-on have never been exposed to daily life in remote communities. Short stints for a Thesis & writing their opinin is not experiencing real life !

Fester,

I'm trying to make sense out of a complex situation and
frankly I think that us insulting each other and
getting on with personal labels only makes the situation
worse.

Perhaps the words some use are done out of sheer frustration.
However, if we are honest we as non-Indigenous people often
don't know how we should address social inequity that the
Indigenous have.

Indigenous leaders, scholars, activists and community
members have spent decades suggesting solutions to
problems in this country. These still have not been implemented.
For years Aboriginal communities have called for appropriate
representation in government.

The Voice could potentially represent the views of Indigenous
communities and hopefully assist in informing policy and
legal decisions that impact their lives.

The reason the problems continue and our Indigenous voices
are not listened to I suspect is because people in power and
the wide (whiter) community continues to benefit from it.

It's time to at least try something new. And surely as a
nation we're mature enough to give it a go?

Indyvidual,

I don't owe you further explanations. You are
being intrusiv and I suspect looking for an
argument but I shall be polite and say -

We learn from the study of history. From archival
records, From listening to oral histories of
people's lived experiences, from meeting and
talking to people, from visiting their communities.
My brother was a school principal in regional NSW.
Another brother lives in Queensland. We travelled
around Australia.

In any case - you will simply have to take my word
for the fact that I did learn a great deal on my
journey and that I did find it worthwhile.

If you don't believe me - that frankly is your problem.
It's been my journey - from which I've benefited. And what
you accept or don't is up to you. Today - there's so much
information that is accessible and available for people
to learn the truth. They simply have to be willing to
search in order to get the bigger picture and not just
one based on limited experiences in small isolated
communities and regions.

Each community is different with different set of problems.

Fester and Indyvidual,

Just vote NO. There is nothing to be gained by arguing with maniacal, Leftist ideologues.

Again with the insults and labeling.

That's all some can come up with.

Sad really.

that frankly is your problem.
Foxy,
Not just mine, everyone else's also because what you're indoctrinated to believe to be the truth isn't so ! It's the likes of you who pedal indoctrinated nonsense as fact & that is a problem for all of us ! You're too ignorant to realise how brainwashed you are & you're passing on your ignorance to others nearly as brainwashed as you. That's not useful or helpful for the closing of that Gap that the activists are keeping open as much as they can & you're helping them whilst at the same time bleating about closing it !
It's frightening to think the likes of you are forced to vote !

Indyvidual,

I'm not indoctrinated. I've learned to sift the
sheep from the goats. You on the other hand are
a bit of a one-track mind. and what's objectionable
and dangerous about people like you is not that
you're extreme - but that you're intolerant. And
what's bad is not what you say about your causes,
but what you say about your opponents.

Extremists think "communication" means agreeing with
them.

Extremism thrives amid ignorance, intimidation and
cowardice.

People are drawn to extremism because they feel their
traditional way of life is threatened by the influx
of new things that they find alien.

Perfectly understandable in this country, considering
its history.

Boys, ignore Foxy she is a rusted-on Daniel Andrews and Anthony Albanese cheer leader, you should just believe they tell the class the facts. Just believe their facts, no matter the cost [hang the debt], no matter the lies [power prices will come down], they have the facts the ABC tells everyone their facts.

What was happening in a whole community of violent drunks in Alice may have been happening to one or two families in the Western suburbs as it continues still today. Bess Price wants to establish a similar program as we set un in the 1960s of a boarding school for aboriginal children to remove them from the scene of their parents influences and inspire them to achieve in Western society. The Government has refused to fund this proposal as they ignore aboriginal problems for a Voice. They do not want to listen to aboriginal advice, they just want to pass it off to an elitest Voice.
http://alicespringsnews.com.au/2023/04/28/12m-school-extension-hostel-or-boarding-facility/

"boys", what a joke, a bunch of decrepit old farts being called "boys" by one of their own. It must be a joke! When will they be called "men", next year when they all turn 110!

Josephus,

If you want any credibility - stop repeating the
same lies and get some facts. Otherwise you become
as effective as a fart in a blizzard.

Some in the Liberal Party might be waking up finally to the wet LINOS who are voting Yes, and undermining the official No stance of the party.

"These so-called moderates can’t help themselves. We are building a list and there will be a reckoning for their ongoing betrayal. Pre-selections can’t come soon enough!", says a senior politician.

Another senior member wrote: “The Liberals will not win elections until the Party heals and realises it has to listen to its members. The members speak for voters.”

One cranky Liberal, Matt Kean, seems to be having his strings pulled by Albanese; he has echoed Albanese’s pathetic, "it's a moderate proposal".

Shonky Falinski has said Dutton’s No is not really No. What a twat!

No wonder the Liberal Party is a spent force that should be replaced with a party that will strongly oppose the Marxists, and represent the people who have left in droves. A new party with a different name from the namby pamby Liberal moniker, which means left in the rest of the world.

threatened by the influx
of new things that they find alien.
Foxy,
New is always preferable to proven failure & that's why the same activists & their ignorant supporters can not come up with a newer, better idea than the Voice which is nothing more than a much costlier version of NIAA/ATSIC & even less workable for the Nation !
Any chance of improvement has been totalled by this idiotic scheme no matter what the outcome on the 14th. The damage is done thanks to Labor & its indoctrinated supporters !

"Would The Voice Stop The Vice?"

Would a NO vote stop the changing of place names to aboriginal ones?
Instead of doing more, some of this stuff needs to be rolled back.
We can't be expected to learn and use aboriginal place names.

Why do we have to change everything to appease foreign people who wanted to come to OUR country or more specifically the UN and elites?
Why are we changing for them?
Cant any nation have their own effing culture anymore?
Why are the sensitivities and issues of immigrants and minorities now more important than anything than the Australia many of us once loved?

I've got nothing against indigenous people.
If anyone has a right to be racist in this country, they do.
But we can't wind back the clock 200 years.
And we can't close the gap for people who want to live 200klms from the closest shop.
We can improve many things for them, but we can never close the gap entirely if they choose not to live in more built up areas with better health services, education facilities, jobs, shops, everything.

I've got nothing against foreign people.
But why do we want to bloat the country up with them when our own kids and grandkids will never be able to afford their own home anymore?
We don't even have enough water, we import it from overseas.

"Cant any nation have their own effing culture anymore?", asks AC.

It seems not; not for Western countries anyway. And it's the governments of those Western countries who are responsible for it. They came up with the idea of multiculturalism, not the immigrants, who have been encouraged to stick to their cultures by the people who imported them. It's not the immigrants fault that they have been encouraged to take part in the absurd notion that diversity means strength.

"Cant any nation have their own effing culture anymore?"

ttbn,
Not having culture at all or a very poor mentality one is definitely worse than many old cultures !

Indyvidual

Different ethnicities are OK, even if not ideal. Different cultures are not OK. In this increasingly threatening world, with increasingly threatening politicians, we all need to be on the same page. Divide and rule seems to be the way we are going. This is what our current 'ruler' intends, starting with the Voice, then who knows what, if he gets away with it.

If Albanese's censorship Bill is successful (and, yes, Morrison was the first to come up with the attack on our freedoms) we won't even be able to talk about it.

An American commentator has suggested that Australians should deal with America's appalling illegal entry problem.

Not while Albanese Labor is in power they shouldn't.

The fact that Elon Musk has just halved his election integrity team this week on X/Twitter at the same time as a former integrity executive at the platform warned that foreign government and extremist bad actors are intervening there to distort the debate on the Voice, policy action to protect our ability to trust government

Baygon

Sorry. You post doesn’t make any sense to me. Want to try again?

tbn I am not surprised and it wasn't intended for you. It was for the grown-ups who have posted on this thread

Baygon

I'm not surprised that you can't explain your barely-literate waffle. It was unrealistic of me to think that you could. Anyone who writes that badly is not up to explaining himself.

It was also unrealistic to think that you would have be able to express a clear opinion on the subject: Would The Voice Stop The Voice?

Hi BAYGON,

Don't allow yourself to be dusted with the poison
of toxic people. Keep on posting.

Hi ttbn

He seems to be saying that because Musk has removed the 'election integrity team' on Twitter / X that more disinformation will now be spread.

In fairness though, disinformation can be used by both sides of 'Voice' campaigners.
- And these people weren't trustworthy or reliable anyway.
Here's what Musk said about it.

http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1707147926789554422
"Oh you mean the 'Election Integrity' Team that was undermining election integrity? Yeah, they’re gone."

They're the same people who were complicit in helping to remove Trump from office by calling the Hunter Biden Laptop Story 'Russian Propaganda' and controlled information on the platform by removing content and shadow banning users.

Both Republicans and Democrats put in requests to remove content on Twitter, but the FBI was also involved in removing content as well.

What's important about the Hunter Biden laptop story is that the laptop contained info that corroborated a Burisma informants allegations of corruption against the Biden family.
- And that's why the FBI withheld and would not share details about that laptop coming up to the 2020 election.

http://oversight.house.gov/release/the-cover-up-big-tech-the-swamp-and-mainstream-media-coordinated-to-censor-americans-free-speech-%EF%BF%BC/
"Under former Twitter employees’ watch, Twitter devolved into a private company the FBI and federal government infiltrated to deliberately limit free speech, particularly conservative speech and news contrary to the mainstream narrative."

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-obtains-and-releases-fbi-record-alleging-vp-biden-foreign-bribery-scheme
"For the better part of a year, I’ve been pushing the Justice Department and FBI to provide details on its handling of very significant allegations from a trusted FBI informant implicating then-Vice President Biden in a criminal bribery scheme."

- Basically the FBI knew the Biden family were involved in corruption prior to the election and they sought to keep this from Americans prior to the 2020 election.

I wouldn't necessarily pay any attention to what the former election integrity executive Yoel Roth said.
He's a serious 'Trump hater' and he and Musk have had a very public spat.
http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-yoel-roth-interview-linda-yaccarino-worried-elon-musk-2023-9

Besides all that, what BAYGON stated probably does hold some merit, regarding user content on X now being less regulated under Musk.

Voice to Parliament referendum 'prime target' for foreign interference on Elon Musk's X, former executive warns
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-30/voice-to-parliament-misinformation-elon-musk-x/102912548

AC

Who knows. Elon Musk is not high on my list of interesting people, and he has nothing to do with the thread really. Fly Spray is probably anti-Musk and took the opportunity to bad-mouth him.

Fly Spray seemed to be concerned about 'integrity' (anathema to the Left I would have thought), and a 'integrity manager' who might have got the chop when Musk bought up Twitter. It was the worst thing that could happened in the eyes of Fly Spray and all the latter-day communists.

I don't do Twitter and the loony social media. Even under conservative management. There must have been lots of fits and tongue-swallowing when Musk took over and renamed it X, on which you can now watch Tucker Carlson. Ouch!

The Voice is a guaranteed staring pistol for turbocharging Vice !

There was a short segment on the 7:30 report last night.
http://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30

Tuesday 3/10/2023
"We travel to three Indigenous communities in North Queensland to get their views on the Voice."

Armchair Critic,
I don't want to log into the ABC so, could you please let us know which communities were visited ?

I think that it is well past the time when people should have decided how they will vote. Discussion has been superfluous for many weeks. I have never given a toss about "detail", "don't know, vote No", (I do know, and that’s exactly why I'm voting NO) and all the nonsense from both sides.

Our latter-day communists have deliberately set out to divide Australia on race. They should be blocked.

Hey Indyvidual,
The towns were:
Aurukun
http://maps.app.goo.gl/9YcKMrM2ToSG9qUL7
Pormpuraaw
http://maps.app.goo.gl/Qi2TAx3848dmf5Wk6
Doomadgee
http://maps.app.goo.gl/ebBCHbWr3HHrjT267

Armchair Critic,
Thanks, going to see these particular communities to gauge how they'll vote is akin to walking into a Hippy community to ask if they'd vote for or against smoking Dope !
A callously calculated foregone conclusion ! In other words a dirty underhand tactic to trick the ignorant southern Demographic !

Indy,

In Doomadgee, the life expectancy is 49, some of the worst in the world. preventable rheumatic heart disease is rife in the town....But YOU don't want to know about that, YOU are happy to maintain the status quo, more of the same, doesn't effect your aged welfare. I assume YOU are already about twice 49, so lucky YOU, why care about some black fellas in a remote town like Doomadgee, it doesn't effect YOU.

Hey Indy,
While the 10 - 15 minute segment did show that people in these communities have already began to vote in the referendum, it was more about the issues these people face in their communities, drinking, fighting, lack of jobs and services and the high cost of groceries.

The impression I got was that rather than a 'Voice' in Canberra representing them, they felt someone was needed within their communities that actually understood the issues; and they were skeptical (but hopeful I assume) about whether or not 'The Voice' would bring lasting changes things for the better, based on the history of past government assistance programs.

They didn't really go into the issue of which way the members of their communities were planning to vote.
I can only assume it would be a 'Yes' vote, but I'm not certain.

In Doomadgee, the life expectancy is 49,
Paul1405,
Why ? I know people who have worked there who told me of the conditions in that community & the common consensus is until the locals need to get interested in their own wellbeing & until they do so, nothing will change. People from every thinkable organisation have come & gone & largely given up from what I gather. So, you think your Voice will change change that ? How ? With even more funding when a fraction of what has already been funded would have turned any other community into a mini Dubai ?
If you saw non-indigenous behaving similarly you'd be the first to point the finger at them !

"the locals need to get interested in their own wellbeing".

Why would they, when their own elites, Albanese, and the latter-day communists all say that they are incapable of doing so.

That's what the Voice is all about: telling people that they are useless; that they need Big Brother to tell them what to do: to run their lives for them.

The Voice is the biggest 'put down' to aborigines ever.

My view is that, if those who wish to exist without effort then they should be able to do so. However, others who do not share their philosophy must also be given the opportunity to exercise their philosophy.
No-one should feel they can demand another to compensate them for their own lack of initiative & effort ! If those who want to keep bleating others should provide then let them do so. They have no right to demand others share their philosophy ! If I need help I ask & whenever I can I compensate the helper in kind or by paying them for their effort !
Being in need of help is either down to fate or bad luck or whatever no fault of theirs & they must be supported by the rest of us. Generally, the consequences of choosing a lifestyle based on no personal effort are no-one else's responsibility no matter where or when or which ethnic group they were born into ! All everyone has to do is to pull their own weight with what's available or what they make available to them. There are natural & human made Laws to go by !
Blame is not one of them & blame must only be used where blaming is warranted ! Lack of initiative is not a base for blame ! Life lived by those before us has nothing to do with us but our actions impact on the next Generation & that is our responsibility & those too inconsiderate must be held to account in our time & that's where too many fail ! A kind of National Service will make great inroads into adapting a much better mentality towards others & result in a better society !

Past-his-useby-date Ray Martin has doubled down on his insults to NO voters. A photograph of this peanut holding a glass of plonk and smirking about his idiotic remarks leads to the question: how much is he affected by alcohol.

Anyone who is OK presenting themselves to the public as a boozer is suspect. Alcohol his a dangerous drug that affects the mind. It is certainly affecting aboriginal communities, and very possibly the likes of Ray Martin and the simpering set. Never trust a drinker.

Remember when voting was more of a personal thing, and you didn't really discuss to much with others who you would vote for, and everyone just respected each others right to their own choice...

Indy,

Your above post is YOU! Why do others have to support YOU with aged welfare? What efforts did YOU make to support yourself in old age, nothing? Its easy to sit in the peanut gallery and point the finger. Why be so hypocritical, you offer no solutions to problems, more of the same, just like so many old blokes on here you are full of negativity. You enjoy the luxury of it not effecting YOU! I will not be overly concerned if the referendum gets shot down, but those leaders that are contributing to its demise better have ideas to improve the situation, not just more of the same. I don't hear the likes of Dutton offering alternate solutions to the problems, just more of the same.

Paul1405,
What makes you think it's ok for you to be supported but not others ? Going by your posts & your mentality it seems highly probable that you're being kept as a token bureaudroid & don't actually do anything useful in return. Old age pensioners have contributed whereas you appear to just hold out yours whilst biting the hand that feeds you.

Does anyone know how much of the mining royalties paid for Aborigines actually goes to their communities & how much to their activists ?

AC

I remember. Unfortunately those days are long gone; although, nobody needs to reveal how they vote or what they think about anything. Even now, I don't discuss politics, in person, with anyone outside my family. That's the beauty of OLO. It's a relief valve, and you can ignore anyone you disagree with.

ADH TV presenter, Damien Coory, invited the Yes camp to join a discussion on the Voice - three times. No answer the first time (such wonderful manners) then two refusals.

Fortunately, our very own Graham Young accepted the invitation, along with a representative of Australian Jewry.

Graham did an excellent job of pointing out the dangers of the Voice. The Yes mob would not have been able to cope, even if they had the guts to front up.

The mindset that’s DESTROYING Australia – and how to FIX it! with Graham Young
http://watch.adh.tv/videos/the-mindset-that-s-destroying-australia-and-how-to-fix-it

This morning's "Insiders," program invited Peter Dutton
to discuss the Voice referendum as well as our PM Anthony
Albanese. Mr Albanese showed up. Mr Dutton declined the
invitation.

Go figure.

Whatever rocks your boat.

Go figure.
Foxy,
Would Albanese go on Cretlin's or Bolt's program ?

Indyvidual,

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese did sit down with Sky News
political editor Andrew Clennell, to discuss the Voice to
Parliament, AUKUS, interest rates and other subjects.

Credlin and Bolt have never invited him.

Justice Kirby, a real lefty, after the loss of the republic referendum, said that "there is little or no chance of securing the majority required to amend the Constitution without the support of all the major players in the political debates".

"Even with such support, there is no guarantee that the electors will agree to the proposal". He went on to say:

"On the evidence of past referenda, any attempt to change the Constitution for party political advantage would be bound to attract the scepticism of the people".

And, "To change the Australian Constitution ….. within the space ….. of five years, imposing requirements of comprehension and adaptation to change (would be) unacceptable to the majority of Australian voters".

The Voice referendum was announced only a year ago - although the Uluru Statement was six years old.

A change to the Constitution also needs to be "desirable, irresistible, and inevitable".

The Voice is an "unnecessary distraction", like the republic referendum was.

It is well known that some advocates of the Voice are denigrating those who disagree.

Kirby again: "To upbraid half the people of a nation, or at least a good portion of them (calling them ignorant and racist, e.g) is a sure way in a country like Australia to alienate them".

Yet, this is the theme of some advertisements and arguments urging a Yes vote. It is one of the reasons that Yes support has collapsed.

The uneven bias of the media is not doing the Yes case any favours either.

'No' voters - try to stay calm next Saturday and don't react to the inevitable behaviour of Yes activists shoving how to vote cards in your faces. There have been reports of verbal and physical abuse in the early ballot booths.

I just got abused by an indigenous woman down at KFC.
- And I only said one thing, "YES"

So I got my burgers and chips and headed out to the car.
The car next to mine had about 4 indigenous people in it.
She'd backed in and parked so close that I could barely open my door.
She says "Oh sorry, did I park too close?"
I look down and see the rear wheel of her SUV on the white line, look up and say "Umm, Yes"...
And she says "Ahh I said sorry, no need to be an asshole about it..."
I said "You asked me a question and I answered"
- Then I squeezed into the car and left.

So that's my story for the day, abused by an indigenous woman at KFC for saying "Yes"

And you couldn't say "Shut up and take my money", as the ad says.

NO to the Voice it is. Hurrah! There are more sensible Australians than there are dills.

Kudos ttbn.

Would The Voice Stop The Vice?

How about...

Will the clergy stop the gay orgies?

Pope accepts resignation of Polish bishop after gay orgy scandal in diocese
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/pope-accepts-resignation-polish-bishop-grzegorz-kaszak-gay-orgy-scandal-diocese
The pope has accepted the resignation of a Polish bishop whose diocese has been rocked by reports of a gay orgy involving a male sex worker in a priest’s apartment, as well as previous violent incidents involving his clergy.

Answer: Probably not... Onward Christian soldiers

Why is it the Catholic clergy prefer mens and boys bums?
- Maybe it avoids pregnancy scandals.
And maybe the raped altar boys grow up to be perpetrators
- It's a vicious cycle of sexual perversion.

Shameful sodomites.