Kamahl is voting no, objecting to the Voice as being apartheid and racial privilege. Kamahl, as a Malaysian born immigrant, has contributed much to this nation. Like the 'Go back to where you came from!" anti-immigration rants, the anti-colonial stance of the "Yes" campaigners sounds equally divisive and pointless to me at least.

Whatever the circumstances, we are all in this nation together, so better to be equal with a common purpose and support than divided with conflicting interests.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12512007/Kamahl-voting-No-Voice-referendum.html

Good on him. My favourite of his songs is 'The Sounds of Goodbye'.

Let's hope what we are now hearing from the polls is the sounds of goodbye to the Voice and Albanese shortly after.

I put this by mistake in Josephus's post. Something else for the resident arsehole to sneer at 'old blokes' about.

And he copped a lot racist slurs at his expense. Forty plus years ago on Hey Hey it's Saturday, and earlier this year from that bastion of fairness and champion against racism, the ABC. He has yet to receive an apology from the ABC to my knowledge.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9415929/Kamahls-classy-comeback-Hey-Hey-Saturday-presenter-John-Blackman-racism-complaints.html

Agree ttbn. A very decent man.

At the Press Club, Jacinta Price was asked if "indigenous people remained traumatised by colonisation". She said "No".

She then went on to point out the positive things about colonisation.

Next day the MSM in the form of The Guardian blared that 'indigenous people had said that Price was wrong and disloyal'.

No, they did not. A single person said that: one Linda Burney, who claimed that "people" had said that to her.

No names. No evidence. Just the incompetent Burney. The one who just reads from an irrelevant script each time she is asked a question in Parliament.

The lies and stupidity of the Yes camp continue.

Price, on the other hand said, "we keep telling Aboriginal people that they are victims, well, we are effectively removing their agency… That is the worst possible thing you can do to any human being – to tell them they are a victim without agency and that’s what I refuse to do.”

Linda Burney (off her own bat this time: no other 'indigenous people' available found those comments "offensive".

To Burney it is not offensive to treat them like victims.

The woman is cracked; and no matter what the result of the referendum, she is not a fit person to hold the portfolio she does.

As Shadowminister, on the other hand, Jacinta Price was brilliant. She completely took down Left-wing identity politics at the Press Club, saying it was all built on lies, and what was really needed was an inquiry into the thousands of indigenous agencies that already exist and how they are spending billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money.

She also suggested that, instead of blaming colonisation for the plight of indigenous people, negative aspects of Aboriginal culture should be looked at. Family violence, interpersonal violence. Young girls are married off to older husbands and arranged marriages.

Yes, Senator Price was wonderful at the National Press Club with her parents and husband looking very proud of her. I liked her remark that colonisation should be doubly traumatising for her with her convict heritage on her dad's side.

I hope that Kamahl gets his apology from the ABC soon. He is an old man.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11770029/Kamahl-demands-public-apology-ABC-presenter-Phillip-Adams-calling-honorary-white.html

.

Dear Fester,

.

You wrote :

« Whatever the circumstances, we are all in this nation together, so better to be equal with a common purpose and support than divided with conflicting interests. »
.

Unfortunately, Fester, we are not all equal. That’s the problem – or, should I say the "reality". Some of us are handicapped, some are naturally skilful, some are brilliant, some mentally retarded, some talented, some totally inept, uneducated, rich or poor …

We are not even born "equal". Nor do we necessarily have the same opportunities. We do not enjoy the same lifestyles. We do not suffer the same death. People of different cultures are different. People from different backgrounds, with different aspirations, skills, handicaps, states of health, education or lack thereof, cannot, and, I suspect, should not, be made equal.

Equality seems to me a somewhat vain objective. It is, for all intents and purposes, unfeasible and, as I mentioned, possibly not even desirable. Justice seems a more realistic and more noble objective, especially the “justice as fairness” that John Rawls advocates.

So, the question we should ask ourselves is :

« What is fair for us all, both traditional and modern Australians, given that many of our indigenous peoples are caught between the two cultures, their traditional Aboriginal culture and modern Western culture, and have great difficulty reconciling the two ? »

Many of us have great difficulty realising that just over 200 years ago, these people were living in this country in a primitive, naked state, hunting wild animals with spears and boomerangs (they hadn’t invented bows and arrows) and had been languishing in their hunter-gatherer tribes for over 65 000 years until relatively recently.

Perhaps I should add that, for me, “fair” means that to share something equally between you and me, I cut it in half, and you choose first – or vice versa.

And it is with this "fairness" principle in mind that we need to decide how to vote on the 14th of October, in the best interests of all – or vice versa !

.

Dear Banjo,

I think the word you want is identical. No, people are not identical. Even identical twins are different. But that is not what equality means in a democratic and legal sense. Do you disagree with the concept of equality for people voting or having laws applied to them? If you do disagree then how would the Voice address this given that you would only be addressing the inequality you see on the basis of ancestral heritage?

The most wrong people do is to criticise the past with the benefit of hindsight.
The most right thing to do is to criticise wrongs of the immediate past as in speak up now or forever hold your peace.
The majority of people only think they're good & they're the ones doing nothing. That allows the malevolent to exercise their warped ideology. Those who stand up against wrong are defamed which of course is an age-old tactic to avert focus from the issue (there are a very strong examples on OLO) as it is happening with debating the Voice.
The Voice is an excuse for the inaction of indigenous, faux indigenous & non indigenous activists & bureaucrats over the recent past. Had these people done what they were asked to do with Billions of Taxpayer Dollars the Voice would not even have come to be as the "Gap" would be well & truly closed by now. Yet, these same people are now demanding extra power to boost their insidious uselessness !

I believe in "EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY", that is not bland equality, and in my view can best be achieved through progressive social justice reform. People should be free from obstructions in life as they aspire to their goals. Modern society is complex and demanding, and without intervention by government, even to obtain a minimum standards for all in desirable areas such as health and education would be impossible.

People should be free from obstructions in life as they aspire to their goals
Paul1405,
Everyone would wholeheartedly agree with you on that so, why not practice what you preach ?
Obstructing is more often than not, non-performance of basic societal duties such as not demanding from others what one fails to do oneself.
Equality means do what you can not just what you want to do. The one huge failure of activists is to always expect or rather demand others to do the work !
To aspire to a goal one must first realise one's limits & not demand the standards to be tweaked for oneself. We're now experiencing the outfall of those exemptions ! It's called Tokenism & it serves no social or other beneficial purpose for anyone !

"And he copped a lot racist slurs at his expense. Forty plus years ago on Hey Hey it's Saturday,...."

Got to come to the defence of Hey Hey. This was a different time and different sensibilities. Kamahl now says he suffered racism there, but never made such claims at the time. He didn't even suffer in silence. Indeed he was a semi-regular guest on Hey Hey. Why would anyone who suffered alleged racism keep coming back for more. Why? Because his appearances on Hey Hey improved his profile and resurrected his flagging career. Talking about biting the hand that fed you.

Still, in memory of more innocent times and given the kerfuffle over Farnham's Whispering Jack, I give you Whispering Kamahl.

http://youtu.be/5MapKa7_zNI

Why are people so unkind.... http://youtu.be/sSGeP55tmK4

As Senator Jacinta Price commented, if help was based on need, not on race, none of this horrible division caused by Albanese's Voice would be occurring. There would a lot of money saved. There would be no need for an Aboriginal Affairs portfolio; all the aboriginal quangos; people falsely claiming aboriginality to get benefits they are not entitled to. And people might actually be persuaded to try doing something for themselves.

Another interesting observation from Senator Price was that the fact that Albanese and his cronies want the Voice permanently enshrined in the Constitution means that they expect the 'gap', and the lack of 'reconciliation' will be with us for ever.

Keeping the Gap open is what the Voice is aiming for. Just think, without a Gap there's no excuse for bleating for more funding without offering some effort in return !

.

Dear Fester,

.

You wrote :

1. « I think the word you want is identical … »
.

No, I don’t “want” the word identical, Fester. I don’t think you want it either. If you did you would have used it.

What you wrote was :

« Whatever the circumstances, we are all in this nation together, so better to be equal with a common purpose and support than divided with conflicting interests. »

You employed the word “equal” and that was the word I commented on.
.

2. « Do you disagree with the concept of equality for people voting or having laws applied to them? If you do disagree then how would the Voice address this given that you would only be addressing the inequality you see on the basis of ancestral heritage? »
.

Of course, I agree with democracy : equal voting rights and the people establishing the laws to which they agree to submit themselves.

Since I do not “disagree”, your second question does not apply. Nevertheless, I should like to make a few comments.

The population of Australians self-identifying today as Indigenous is approximately 1 million, and of all those aged 20 to 64, about 9% have already attained or are currently studying for a bachelor’s degree in Australia. That is quite remarkable given that just over 200 years ago, their ancestors were living in this country in a primitive, naked state, hunting wild animals with spears and boomerangs.

But, as I indicated in my previous post, many of them are caught between the two cultures, their traditional Aboriginal culture and modern Western culture, and have great difficulty reconciling the two.

.

(Continued …)

.

.

(Continued …)

.

It has been said that the true measure of a democracy is the way it treats its minorities. Section 51 of our old colonial constitution stipulates :

« The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to the people of any race for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws »

This is known as our colonial constitution’s “race power” clause. It obviously does not apply to all Australians, only to people of any “race”, i.e., in 1901, when our old colonial constitution was established, to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, who, today, represent 3.8% of the population of Australia and 32% of our country’s prison population.

At the last count, we rate 15th on the world democracy index of the Economist Intelligence Unit and are classified as a “full democracy” and we can be quite proud of it.

It remains to be seen what effect the refusal to allow our indigenous minority to have a say in laws affecting them will have on that and on our Human Rights record which is, generally speaking, not too bad.

The political fallout both at home and abroad could be quite negative.

.

true measure of a democracy is the way it treats its minorities.
Banjo Paterson,
yes, unlike here where the minorities dictate to the majority !

.

Dear Indyvidual,

.

You wrote :

« [The] true measure of a democracy is the way it treats its minorities … unlike here where the minorities dictate to the majority ! »
.

You didn’t indicate in which country you are located, Indyvidual, but I imagine it must be one of the authoritarian states (Laos, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China … ?).

At least in that respect, I guess it’s true to say that we really are the “lucky country”.

I have no idea what the possibilities are these days, but maybe you should consider migrating to Australia.

If you haven’t already done so, give it a thought, Indyvidual. I'm sure you won't regret it.

.

"You (Indy) didn’t indicate in which country you are located" He's well and truly planted in Australia, don't ask him where he came from, that s dark secret! "but maybe you (Indy) should consider migrating to Australia." He has, and he's had his snout firmly fixed in the welfare trough ever since! Disgraceful!

unlike here where the minorities dictate to the majority !
Banjo Paterson,
Are you trying to tell us it isn't so ?

Paul1405,
I helped fill the trough I'm sticking my snout into, your self-funded claims are all negative gearing assisted.

.

Dear Indyvidual,

.

You asked :

« Are you trying to tell us it isn't so ? » [that the minorities (presumably, in Australia) dictate to the majority]
.

Sorry, Indyvidual, I don’t play “cat & mouse” games.

As I indicated in my penultimate post on this thread, Australia rates 15th on the world democracy index of the Economist Intelligence Unit and is classified as a “full democracy”.

If you have good reason to contest that please provide concrete evidence to back your claim and indicate the source of your information so that we can verify its validity.

.

Australia rates 15th on the world democracy index of the Economist Intelligence Unit and is classified as a “full democracy”.
Banjo Paterson,
You mean the same Economist Intelligence crowd who don't actually create a single Cent of revenue but excel in getting their snouts into the Taxpayer provided trough ?
Anyhow, you believe what you hear & I believe what I experience !

Aside from dividing Australia on the basis of ancestral heritage and creating democratic inequality, I am concerned about where the Voice might take this nation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxaX18VulkA

"You mean the same Economist Intelligence crowd who don't actually create a single Cent of revenue but excel in getting their snouts into the Taxpayer provided trough ?"

Indy the old bloke with his snout well and truly in the taxpayer tough. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, on the very day you are pocketing another undeserved $30/fortnight of taxpayer funds, you have the hide to claim others are; " getting their snouts into the Taxpayer provided trough" How do you sleep at night, with that kind of gall I would assume very well.

Paul1405,
Please do tell how economists contribute to the economy. I mean contribute not merely talk about it thus get paid for doing literally nothing !
No I don't sleep well knowing there are parasites like you out there !

'I had written him a letter....'
A lot of nicely written arguments here, but they do not support the conclusions?
The referendum is about what is right and proper.
A decision based on sound principles.
And it is wrong to seek to write discrimination and bias in to the constitution.
It is that simple.
So we must retain the 'status quo'.
We must vote NO.
As soon as one contemplates otherwise, one is aiding and abetting an unjustified racist approach.

The exposure of the corruption within that industry & the characters involved is the unintended consequence of the Voice !

Indy,

In your short working life of digging ditches, I can understand how you are cynical towards those who don't dig ditches. BUT someone had to plan the bitch for you to dig! Someone had to design the shovel for you to dig the ditch with etc etc.

Paul1405,
That shovel wasn't designed by a scared of work Leftie who relies on shifty bureaudroids to hand out funding !

If it wasn't for the "Lefties" there
would be no funding to hand out. It would
remain in the hands of those designing the
shovels and arranging the work for others
to do.

Foxy,
Don't try so hard to display your ignorance, you've already convinced us of it long ago !

Indy,

Be truthful, how much of taxpayer money have you pocketed since coming to Australia? You bang on about National Service for young people, but you dodged such service yourself when you had the opportunity. You are to ashamed and embarrassed, to name the sh!t hole country you crawled out of to come to Australia, why is that? Are you a hypocrite!

indyvidual,

Facts don't cease to exist because you
don't know them.

Are you a hypocrite!
Paul1405,
No but you & Foxy are !