WTF?

According to CNN Business: "As Texas bakes under a sweltering heat dome this summer and people crank their air conditioners, the state’s energy demand has smashed records. But the power has stayed on and prices haven’t spiked tremendously.

Thank wind and solar, energy experts say.

Despite some anti-renewable bills introduced in the Texas legislature this year, the state has been adding renewables — particularly solar — at an incredible clip.

Renewable energy was providing 30 to 40% of the power the state needed according to analysis of state data.

To represent to the public that if we just had more of these fossil fuel plants, everything would be fine, is ludicrous. That’s not to say renewables are a panacea, but the point is thermal plants are also not a panacea.”

The world is changing even in that reddest of red states - Texas.

WTF

I read the headline something, but went no further because as you say, it is ludicrous.

If renewables supplied 30% to 70% of the power, presumably fossil fuels were supplying the rest, and would have been supplying 100% if there was no wind or sun.

We have had the same silly talk in SA - without mention of the interstate interconnector supplying us with coal-generated power whenever we need it, which is all the time when there is no wind or sun. We do have gas generators that they didn't blow up as they did the one coal plant.

To say that renewables saved the day in Texas is bloody stupid.

WTF?

ttbn says "... but went no further because as you say, it is ludicrous."

Maybe you should have gone further as it is not my saying this but those involved in the energy industry.

I'll put more importance on that information than the opinion of someone who stops after the headline.

ttbn says:"... would have been supplying 100% if there was no wind or sun."

The problem with that is the maximum output would not meet consumers need for energy.

Further more "Renewables have been a lifeline for the Texas grid as some older thermal plants have gone offline throughout the summer."

And "“You have the thermal outages being consistent in that high level and renewables doing quite well throughout the summer.”

In a different thread you said "Follow the money".

In Texas the money is following renewables despite the Republican government giving thermal electricity generators those Republican despised handouts and adding those Republican despised layers of red tape directed at renewables.

WTF

I was agreeing with you. I won't bother again.

WTF?

From ttbn's post: "To say that renewables saved the day in Texas is bloody stupid."

From my post: "Renewables have been a lifeline for the Texas grid as some older thermal plants have gone offline throughout the summer."

ttbn follows u with "I was agreeing with you. I won't bother again."

........ O..K......

Hello WTF?,

The Washington Post, June 29th 2023 told us that:

" The US Nation's top oil-and-gas-producing state
has managed to keep the lights on - at least so far
because of abundant solar panels, wind turbines, and giant
batteries that store clean energy."

"You hear those talking points that renewables aren't
reliable. But there's little that is more reliable,"
says Doug Lewin, President of the Austin based clean
energy consulting firm - Stoic Energy.

Also, Forbes points out that:

"Clean energy already employs more than 42,000 Texans and
has attracted nearly $100 billion of in-state investment and
more is on the way. By 2030 the Inflation Reduction Act could
create more than 100,000 new clean energy jobs in Texas while
adding $15 billion to the state's GDP."

http://forbes.com/sites/energy/innovation/2023/07/16/renewables-and-storage-got-texas-grid-through-this-heat-wave-but-the-state-legislature-still-hasnt-fixed-its-underlying-problems/?sh=b4936a6d1

Hello Foxy,

There certainly is a lot to unpack here.

An interesting aspect for me is that Texas is a Republican stronghold.

Republicans champion reduced handouts and less government interference.

The legislators just this year made it easier for thermal electricity generators to operate and layered renewable generators with red tape obligations.

Despite this the money is flowing towards renewables.

Imagine the changes that could take place if it was a level playing field with no market interference?

Hi WTF?,

It certainly is interesting.

USA Today says that - "power from zero carbon sources made up
a full 41% of the US electricity mix in 2022 - a record
breaking number that has increased almost every year since
1990."

This increase has come from the rapid build-out of solar and
wind power whose costs have plummeted in the past 2 decades.

http://usatoday.com/story/news/2023/03/01/clean-energy-hits-record-us-2023-sustainable-energy-factbook/11324041002/

Just listened to a woman talking about electric cars which she said shoulkd really be called coal cars because the electricity to charge them still comes from coal as no alternatives have yet been found.
The most valid point was that batteries work well on small appliances such as tools. However, battery powered cars are a totally different game. Due to the heavy batteries a car has to lump around wherever it goes it adds up to 1km vs 11km for Gasoline for the total weight of the vehicle.

This is ridiculous. Texas closes down vast units of cheap, though fossil fuelled, power, and replaces it with so-called clean power. Then when the clean power turns out to provide some of the power that was lost, people go all weak-kneed at the wonder of it all.

Its as though a chap wantonly cuts of his healthy right leg, replacing it with a prosthetic substitute. Then as he walks around the garden he marvels at how he'd be completely immobile if it wasn't for that artificial limb.

Dear mhaze,

But he wouldn't be able to be mobile without the
artificial leg. So isn't that a good thing?

Well said mhaze! I would swap 'ridiculous' for 'moronic'.

WTF doesn't seem to know what he thinks about it. The standard of English comprehension and expression is getting worse on OLO. You are likely to be snapped at these days because you have apparently misinterpreted someone's gibberish.

The poor English skills of the renewables crowd, combined with their inability or unwillingness to read anything that's not on Google or in the MSM makes it impossible for them to understand that they are being had and made fools of.

When they are broke, cold and hungry, in the dark, they might get the message.

Some of the behavioural changes necessary to achieve the loony Left, Bowenesque plans - ontop of the money and the destruction of the environment, are said by Cambridge University to be:

"construction sites would have to do without CO2-intensive bricks, glass and cement ....  all flying and shipping must stop, beef and lamb are to be severely rationed, along with home cooking and heating. Car traffic (even when it’s all electric) must fall by 60 per cent."

As well, the International Energy Association says that "the world’s mining industry can’t possibly output the extra metals and materials needed", anyway.

There might be an unexpected solution to all the problems we are experiencing under a dysfunctional Albanese government: Albanese has "not ruled out a double dissolution".

Albanese has gone all pouty about the Greens refusing to support his housing Bill; but any chance to get rid of him would be welcome.

"If you really think that the environment
is less important than the economy,
try holding your breath
while you count your money."
(Guy McPherson).

"But he wouldn't be able to be mobile without the
artificial leg. So isn't that a good thing?"

Sorry Foxy...you missed the point. He only needs the artificial leg because he cut off his good leg without any purpose. Ditto, Texas only needs so-called clean sources to work because they cut off all the reliable sources of power.

Dear mhaze,

You surprise me.

I would not have thought that you'd use the old
status quo arguments promoting fossil fuels.
What a shame. It polarizes the public and then that
makes it harder to get consensus and progress.

I would have thought that you would not support any
effort to postpone or halt ambitious climate action.
I would not have thought that you would
want to protect business as usual.

Foxy, again you misunderstand.

I wasn't and don't promote fossil fuels. I was simply pointing out that carrying on as though the so-called clean sources have saved the day when all they did was replace, by legal enforcement, power sources that for a century saved the day every day, is ridiculous.

I don't support fossil fuels. And I don't oppose fossil fuels. I know that our modern society is based on cheap, reliable and expanding power. I am agnostic as to where that power comes from. If coal/oil is cheap and reliable, I support it. If wind/sun are cheap and reliable, I support them. What I don't support is government intervention to favour one proven source over another unproven source based on unproven prognostications.

"It polarizes the public and then that makes it harder to get consensus and progress."

I think you're confusing consensus and progress with agreeing with you. If ony everyone agreed with me, we'd have consensus.

Dear mhaze,

Your back-peddling is appreciated.

"Your back-peddling is appreciated."

No back-peddling Foxy. Just pointing out what you failed to understand. Check, if you want, my views posted here over the last decade and you'll find they are consistent on this issue.

Dear mhaze,

Overegging the issue again I see.

The 2021 huge electricity supply shutdown in Texas was not due to renewables but rather fossil fuels in a privatised sector: “Contrary to some early hot takes, gas and coal were actually the biggest culprits in the crisis,” said Eric Fell, director of North America gas at Wood MacKenzie.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-02-20/texas-blackout-how-the-electrical-grid-failed

But he wouldn't be able to be mobile without the
artificial leg.
Foxy,
You just confirmed what we thought for a long time !

Kudos mhaze, ttbn, Indyvidual.

Hydrocarbons are their own storage, renewables are not.

There are too many people in the world- now 8 billion- and there will probably be one billion more in 13 years- this has been the pattern for a while. China and India are bigger than the next eighteen nations combined. Also more nations are demanding mechanization. This puts pressure on global energy supply chains and raw materials and creates conflict.

It took giants such as Edison, Tesla, etc about a hundred years of competing systems to develop the global power systems of 2023- some of them failed- it will probably take much longer for a totalitarian government bureaucracy to push through the same thing.

We probably don't have enough lithium to power all of the world's cars.

When the electrical systems fail it will be advisable to have a wood gasifier and a generator to power your car and get some electricity.
Assuming that the government doesn't mandate the destruction of ICE motors. You probably should investigate durable foods that don't require refrigeration. You can't diy service lithium battery packs but you can service an ICE driven car.

Electricity prices are already rising and are expected to rise much more- driven by both global population and ostensive environmental policy.

Lithium batteries are about 4x less energy dense than hydrocarbons.
See Wikipedia energy density matrix.

The solution is less people especially in high growth and high density nations- Australia is not one of them- immigration into Australia makes the global problem worse.

SR wrote: "The 2021 huge electricity supply shutdown in Texas ..."

The relevance of that is unclear. But that's SR for you.

Still, to continue my 'leg' analogy, the 2021 event shows that if you cut off one leg then it matters not at all how many artificial legs you have when the other develops arthritis.

The Texas grid had been gutted to allow for the introduction of so-called clean alternatives meaning that when the faecal matter hit the cooling device, there was no capacity to recover.

We are building the same problems into our grid.

Chariot Energy's blog tells us that:

"Everything is bigger in Texas including their energy
industry. Texas is bigger than some countries. It uses
and creates lots of energy. The Lone Star state is the
number one producer of electricity in the nation, nearly
twice the amount of Florida - so there's a reason they're
the only state with its own electricity grid."

However, we're also told that:

"The Texas renewable energy industry has shown up and
delivered on its promises (and then some):

1) Texas Renewables continue to climb as coal declines.

2) Texas provides nearly 38% of all US wind-powered
electricity.

3) Texas wind has produced more electricity than Texas
Nuclear since 2014.

4) The price of Texas solar has dropped 38% over the last 5 years.

5) Texas solar currently ranks 4th in the nation.

6) Texas Solar powers hundreds of thousands of homes."

And the list goes on.

Dear WTF?,

The Rio Grande will be flowing
The starry skies will be bright
And, the Yellow Rose of Texas
Will walk along the river
on a quiet summer night

All Thanks to renewable energy. (smile).

It sounds like WTF actually believes things broadcast on CNN.

That is about as intelligent as believing anything broadcast by their ABC, or the poms BBC. That must have something to do with ideology, It couldn't be due to anything rational.

WTF?

Hasbeen says: "WTF actually believes things broadcast on CNN"

If you do not trust CNN as an information source then do not use it.

A regular poster on here often suggests not to use the search engine Google because of reasons never articulated.

If you don't trust this search engine use another.

Use any search engine you like.

Search for information about the use of renewables in Texas and you will get the same information.

Criticising CNN, ABC or BBC will not change facts.

Dear mhaze,

You really don't get to just ignore what the experts meant when they said "gas and coal were actually the biggest culprits in the crisis".

I know your world view is tied up in poo pooing climate change but it really doesn't count for much in the real world.

Further claiming the Texas energy grid has been "gutted" when renewables only account for 20% of the mix is just stupid.

Part of the problem is the fact that Texas has a grid which is the only wholly independent one in the country. All the others are interconnected. Capitalism at its finest.

Oh dear SR,

Still straining to find some relevance in your assertions.

"when renewables only account for 20% of the mix."

30 to 40% according to the article.

Just a quick statistics lesson. Since coal/gas make up 70% of the mix they will of course cause the greater part of the decline. If they fall by 10% that means a 7% decline overall. Whereas so-called renewables, being only 30% of the total, will cause a 3% overall decline if they fall by 10%. So yes, coal/gas caused the greater part of the problem but then they are the greater part of the solution.

Prior to the system being gutted to accommodate so-called renewables, there was significant redundancy built in. No longer - there or here.