Wiradjuri man Stan Grant has announced he is leaving his job as host of ABC’s Q&A program after receiving “grotesque racist abuse” which he said escalated after he hosted a discussion as part of the ABC’s coverage of the king’s coronation recently. He said he felt unsupported by the ABC in the wake of the abuse, now getting an apology from the ABC.

Stan Grant’s resignation comes less than a year after being made the permanent host of the talk show Q&A. Are some of the criticisms of Stan Grant fair (he's very opinionated) or are we simply looking at racist abuse? There are some very rude people out there.

Thanks for the post Nathan. I'm trying to write an essay on the issue and I'm trying to find examples of the racism that Stan complains about. I'm having trouble finding anything serious. And that's after searches on Twitter, and reading comments on The Australian, which Patricia Karvelas accuses of holding racist comments.

There's bits about his tan. And that he's used his Aboriginality to get places. The worst I could really find was someone asking why he left his aboriginal wife (who they said was pregnant at the time) for his "white girl" (this is how they described Tracey Holmes his current wife). While I find this a very distasteful characterisation it doesn't seem to me to be enough to justify his actions. The tan actually seems relevant to how he reconciles his European and Aboriginal heritage, and the accusation about using race for preference not even vaguely racist.

So I'm looking for examples, and opportunistically using Nathan's thread to do it.

He’s lining up politics via the Voice me thinks ! The feigned racism concerns are part of a smoke screen to garner support via sympathy !

I was reading Mr Grant's outpouring of what amounts to grief.
It is full of passion.
But even though his conclusions are heartfelt, mistakes are obvious throughout the text.
This is because he has a distorted view of the incidents he is describing?
His reality has little in common with the truth?
One might be justified in concluding that he is extremely stressed?
Time for him to talk with those who have a more ordered and logical view of life?
I remember making a somewhat similar comment about three months ago.
Straws in the wind...

With the Voice debate hotting up, the shock troops, the so called journalists of the extreme right wing media, the Murdoch mob are at the head of the parade, are out in force to discredit people like Grant for their advocacy on the issue.

Grant said; "I’m not walking away for a while because of racism, we get that far too often. I’m not walking away because of social media hatred, I need a break from the media. I feel like I’m part of the problem. And I need to ask myself how, or if, we can do it better.” I think he is wrong in feeling he is "part of the problem", the problem lies fairly and squarely with the bigotry and racism of the hard right media.

"Wiradjuri man Stan Grant...."

Oh.. I thought he was Australian.

He is Part-Wiradjury heritage, not a Wiradjuri Man, he should be more honest with the obvious truth !

Show ponies and exhibitionists like Grant are best ignored, in my view.

As a man with Dharruk ancestry I find the "debates" and accusations along with the voice (note lower case used), racialist. It is nothing more than the shrill tones of Marxist - Leninist dogma being repeated - yet again. So many First Nations, Aboriginal, Traditional owners, Indigenous custodians...whatever you wish to use as descriptors - are opposed to this kind of race baiting and virtue signalling, it is not being reported by the MSM...WHY ? Put up and promulgated by inner city elites, wannabe academics and downright bludging blackfellas of all political, sexual and ideological extremes, this behaviour assumes we are owed by the Invaders. My own "aboriginality" was re-discovered through serving alongside members of NORFORCE and their connections to country (the Top End, primarily East Arnhem Land, Gulf Country and Pilbara) where the unit operates. When completing my Patrol Course in 2007, a fellow soldier who is the son of a well known personality did nothing but complain about white fellas and how we 'white' Australians should compensate him personally and the other Aboriginal Nations collectively. Suffice it to say, some time later this bloke was "Dishonourably Discharged" from the unit after being discovered attempting to sabotage outboard motors being prepared for a critical patrol. Patrolman 'X' was educated in private schools in Victoria, university in ACT and evidently failed to become a half way grateful person in regards to anything he was offered in life. I also grew up in PNG and recognise other Freedom Fighters, but to see what is happening today in Australia disgusts me, no truthfully, it scares me to see the Electronic Whorehouse in the state it is today, nothing more than the propaganda arm of government and the born to rule elites Hell bent on their programme of Divide and conquer. Stan Grant and the Aboriginal Industry et al should in the very least grow a set.

My wife and I tuned into the ABC expecting so see the coronation of King Charles, only to find we were watching effects on aboriginals of colonization of Australia, which we immediately realized was not the Coronation but hostility to the Crown. We expected observation of the event, not an opinion program. As we understand Truth telling which follows the Voice is part of "Bridging the Gap" wants to remove the Crown and expects repatriations.

Another ABC nasty piece of work, Rowlands, has stood himself down. Another good riddance. They should all go.

The Australian Broadcasting Communists are an outdated, unwarranted burden on taxpayers. At least 70% of the population says so.

A dog learns fairly early in life that it is not a good policy to bite the hand that feeds it.

Unfortunately it has taken the public hand that has been feeding Grant & others all their lives, a long time to learn, that there comes a time when you should stop feeding a viscous dog, as it is useless feeding one that has no gratitude in it.

I wonder if any of the folk who watch shows like Q&A have learnt anything from this little dummy spit?

Leaving aside my thoughts on the issue of ABC reporters being plumbed for opinions I though Grant's exit was done humbly and with good grace and for that I congratulate him.

The issue of Murdoch press dog-whistling specifically on significant ABC jounos has been a feature for a long time. The Kerry O'Brians and Barry Cassidys of this world really didn't have to contend with what the new crop, including Stan Grant cop on a daily basis.

Murdoch would love to see the privatisation of the ABC, something supported by some of the pinheads on this forum, thus the vitriol. That ultimately is what drives much of this and gets the useful idiots hot under the collar.

Grant's exit was done humbly and with good grace and for that I congratulate him.
SteeleRedux,
Yes, he deserves a Grammy Ward for that act. You on the other hand should work on waking up to the feigned indignation opportunists !
If I can wake up to them so can you !

From the Guardian: "The complaints were in reference to a segment running from 5.15 to 6pm in which a panel discussed 'critical perspectives on the role of the Monarchy in modern Australia' as early guests were arriving at Westminster Abbey".

Program not relative to the event and time.

The Q & A program proposed that the Monarchy / Crown was responsible for the aboriginal disadvantage and their ongoing problems. Stan who is part aboriginal both Wiradjuri and Scottish ancestry, failed to see his own heritage and advantage due to colonization.

Dear Indyvidual,

What a churlish and graceless take.

He didn't remonstrate, and was calm and thoughtful in his response. There was not Piers style huff, fluff and walk off that you might be used to when you are watching your nightly Sky News crew.

Get your head out of the gutter press and the social media sewer and accept it for what it was, a classy step away from the crap your ilk have been slinging with so much gay abandon.

Dear Graham Young,

I'm not sure you are looking in the right places. I have Malcolm Roberts in my twitter feed for my sins and he has been pretty constant reposting tweets which refer to things like "we've Stan Grant whose not black enough for the media" etc.

There seems to be a carousel of RWNJ who circulate these things and many will stay up for quite a while on the twitter sites of people like Roberts before being deleted.

Hi Graham

I suspect much of the nastiest abuse is either sent directly to the ABC or gets taken down by Twitter and other platforms when it is reported – for example, a man has just been charged with threats of violence against Grant – so you may not see the worst of it. What is left is dog whistling and innuendo, such as the puerile “Tan Grant” tweets claiming he uses fake tan to look more aboriginal.

I’m a Republican and didn’t watch the coronation, but I think it was poor judgement for the ABC to air a panel discussion on the faults of the monarchy during the coronation coverage. It is certainly legitimate to raise these issues, but that was not the time or the place. However, the fault lies mainly with ABC management not Grant, and that they left him to cop most of the consequent flak was disgraceful.

I thought Stan Grant was the best Q&A host in years (though far from perfect). He is courteous and intelligent and seems genuinely interested in exploring different opinions and ideas, whereas his predecessors were often arrogant and either shut down or derided people they disagreed with.

The ABC needs to think carefully about how it treats reporting, analysis and commentary. There is room for all three on the national broadcaster, but the lines between them too often blur, and that compromises its independence and reputation, and at times puts it in breach of its obligations. For example, I cannot see how its coverage of the Voice issue complies with clauses 4.2 and 4.5 of its impartiality standards.

https://www.abc.net.au/edpols/impartiality/13645770

What a churlish and graceless take.
SteeleRedux,
Sadly, you are of the crowd that condones the notion of two Wrongs making a Right !
Stan’s exit was a well planned choreographed tactic in the hope that it will gain him sympathy support when he starts his climb to politics using the the momentum of the Voice movement as the vehicle !
Your criticism is proof that integrity is pushed aside by opportunism to feign indignation !

Hello Graham,

I don't know if using my post is the best way to try and find (and highlight) racism in this circumstance, as a person can feel like their post is being used to push someone else's agenda, but what you do is up to yourself.

Those making the degrading comments so far, for me quite a bit of it is racism. I mean making comments on skin colour doesn't come from nowhere.

Those making negative comments about Stan Grant aren't going to admit to racism, generally, in fact no-one will. I don't know many who actually do, in fact very few Neo Nazi's admit to it either.

Stan Grant is a very opinionated person, so for that you will cop flak from others, including via social media. I've had the same type of thing myself. So, it's a question of if you'll take the cheap comments from others, or rise above that and realise their comments are often coming from an immature bunch of clowns who aren't overly intelligent and would benefit going back to school or tertiary education and actually learn something.

You will also face comments from others that are fair and justified. For example I agreed with the ABC Media Watch program that the coronation coverage was poor in terms of critical comment and the royal family. I didn't watch the coverage. It didn't interest me, neither does a lot of television, most of it poor in content. I also feel if your comments about something directed at others are too personal, serious or degrading, you will turn people off and lose potential supporters.

We notice Stan because he insists we notice him?
He wants to stand out?
He sets himself apart by making deliberate and controversial statements?
Sometimes we could be forgiven for thinking he has a permanent chip on his shoulder.
However, I don't notice Joe Blue from Woolloomooloo, because Joe blends in to his society.

Hi NathanJ,

Some estimate Hitlers IQ at between 140 and 150 (there is no record of it being actually tested), that's well above average. Its reasonable to assume the whole Nazi leadership had prossibly high IQ's, otherwise they would not have been able to undertake the leadership rolls they did. Most racists are not knuckle dragging violent haters, on face value they can appear just the opposite, being very disarming, intelligent and acceptable people (many who met Hitler described him that way). Many racists have been loving and kind towards those they discriminate against, some Christian missionaries were that kind of racists. Many racists don't see themselves as such, I believe Peter Dutton is a racists by his response to the Voice, I'm sure he wouldn't see himself in that light.

Hi Nathan, I think my post is appropriate on your timeline because it raises the question about what this racism is that he complains about. If we don't know what it is we are having a content free discussion. So far no one has provided any examples that I think are substantial. In fact the ones instanced were mostly covered in my first post.

The idea that Australia is a racist country is countered by the facts, and it seems to me that episodes like this are blown-up on the basis of little to no evidence to create a straw man.

Most of us have copped abuse on social media. Some of us have received death threats. I know I have. People don't do these things on the basis of race, they do it because they hate.

I have some sympathy for Grant on the Coronation. When you're "talent" in those situations you get to answer the questions asked of you. And you aren't necessarily aware of what is actually on the screens at the time. However, you also need a sense of occasion. He accepted the invitation to participate, and he had limited sense of occasion so he shares in the blame.

I don't understand why he thinks the ABC owes him an apology, or needs to defend him in the public square. Or why he would think they were even aware of the racial abuse, given it is so difficult to find in the first place.

Its typical of white conservatives on the question of racism, that they peddle the line, "there's nothing to see here". These reactionaries don't believe racism exists unless men wearing bed sheets are dragging black folk out of their houses and lynching them from the nearest tree. First it was the denial of history by these narks, there were no massacres, there was no genocide, and if there was its exaggerated by some for the purpose of peddling an unjustified black agenda, besides that's in the past, there's, "nothing to see here". Then came the period of benign racism, when Aboriginal people were marginalised and disadvantaged by white society, seen as fit for nothing more than being menial work horses to serve the European, or simply existing in some black camp, reliant on the white man for a meagre handout of grog and flour, being subjected to discrimination of all kinds. Today's conservatives will tell you that period of history is overly exaggerated, and besides it was of the black mans choosing, he preferred to live that way, again the line; "nothing to see here". Where are we today with racism, its become more subtle, even more benign and difficult to see. The racists is clever in its application, be it the racism of Dutton in the way he opposes the Voice with his lies and misinformation, or the way some treat Stan Grant with the line he's being just too sensitive and as we know, there's, "nothing to see here".

Good on Stan for taking a stand against racism in today's Australia.

My very first, first hand experience with so-called racism was with a member of a famous black Band playing in Brisbane in about 1975. The venue was very crowded & I was pushed accidentally against this Band member who turned to me & hissed “watch it white $hit”. In my 40 years of living in indigenous communities in Northern Australia, I have witnessed racist behaviour from indigenous & non-indigenous alike but generally, these incidents were forgotten as quickly as they started.
The most common instigators were those of mixed heritage. I recall some Navy blokes getting very obnoxious when they got drunk but as soon as things got heated they were shoved off. That was in my times & I can only guess what it was like when superstitious bone-heads clashed a hundred & more years ago. The ignorance of people was the cause of all the racial problems & many haven’t learnt a thing still ! Stan Grant included.

From my viewpoint, Stan Grant uses the mentality of using “a truth that’s told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent” !

Indy you say;

"The ignorance of people was the cause of all the racial problems". Not so, colonial racism was driven by the Europeans desire for LAND for his industry. Like in other parts of the world where the European colonised, the take over was often resisted by the prior inhabitants, in Australia it was Aboriginals. There was a well orchestrated government policy of necessary dispassion of the native to facilitate European settlement. It was not simply the work of renegade knuckle draggers filled with hate for black people and intent on their destruction. The subjugation of aboriginal people as government policy continued until very recent times. Racism still exists today in Australian society, there are racists still, some are posting on this forum, hopefully with understanding and positive action we can move on to a more enlightened and equal society, where no Australian is discriminated against. The key is recognition, truth telling and positive action, we are not quite there yet,but we are making progress.

colonial racism was driven by the Europeans desire for LAND for his industry.
Paul1405,
Yes, that too is ignorance as greed is ignorance ! Just like those who sold their people to slavery & just like the pretend Aborigines who think their other heritage is somehow absolved from past wrongs !
It is also ignorance that exploits a past that can not be undone !

More contentless abuse Paul1405. I assume you are aiming at me. I didn't say there was no racism in Australia, just that there is less than almost anywhere else in the world. There will always be racism, just as there will always be stupidity. We are men and women, not angels, and even angels sin (cf Lucifer). https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries

There was no genocide. That is a fact. It requires a government policy as such, and none existed. There was no attempt to extinguish people by racial characteristic either, whether by government or anyone else.

There were massacres. Some were of blacks, some were of whites, and in some a mixture of blacks and whites killed blacks. Australia wasn't a peaceful continent when Europeans arrived. People were punished, including being hung, for many of these massacres.

You have a curious idea that the arriving Europeans should have somehow involved Aborigines in the higher reaches of society rather than as servants. That would have been strange.

My forebears were servants, and no one thought they had a duty to raise them up. They did it for themselves. My illiterate great grandmother taught herself to read. She sent my grandmother to a "Dame school" to ensure she would be able to read. They pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. Not too different to what my friend Neville Bonner did. Being left to your own devices was not unique to Aborigines, and nor should it be. What society should offer us is opportunity, what we do with it is up to us.

But ultimately if you think the colonisation of this continent by Europeans was wrong, and you are a beneficiary of it, you should think about going "home", wherever home might be. We should all do that, and take our cities, farms, mines and factories with us restoring the land to what it was. Except there is no "home" apart from here, and the benefits of colonisation by Europeans far outweigh any damage when weighed in properly historical scales.

Like Graham, I'm not privy to the comments on social media, and until recently I knew of Stan Grant as a professional and reasonably non-partisan presenter.

However, recently he has hopped on the "voice" gravy train in a big way and made race more of an issue than he'd ever done before even going as far as darkening his face with make-up (which has made him a media joke). In doing so as with all politicians he has made himself a target for those that find his views and posturing offensive.

While not condoning what has been posted about him, politicians with a spine mostly just ignore it and move on. His resignation could either mean that he is genuinely unable to ignore the posts or he is manoeuvring the ABC to take him back with a larger pay package and higher status. The jury is out.

The jury is out.
Shadowminister,
My money is on him getting into politics !

GY,

"More contentless abuse Paul1405. I assume you are aiming at me" You assume wrong, I said; "there are racists still, some are posting on this forum", the ones who come here and post anecdotal negative examples of Aboriginals behaving badly, 100% of the time, are in my opinion racists. I have said not all racists in Australia are knuckle dragging Neanderthals, hateful of others simply based on the fact they are different in ways, real or perceived, and therefore need to be violently opposed, those racists are in a minority. There are racists who are fairly benign, people who harbour resentment, without justifiable reason, believing the vast majority of Aboriginals are undeserving, the cause of their own misfortune, lazy and worthless, believing they get too much from white society, and should show more appreciation for all the European has done for them.

cont

There is strong evidence of colonial government policy involving murder and genocide, be it an unwritten policy, it was used to acquire Aboriginal land, though the direct action of clearing of natives to facilitate European settlement. You tell me, what was the primary function of the Native Police Force set up by the NSW government in 1848, the force was under white command and operated mainly in what is now southern Queensland. The Boarder Police Force set up in 1836 by the ‘Squatting Act’, and drawn mostly from the ranks of military convicts, that force proved ineffective and was replaced by a Native Police Force in 1848. The NPF was under the command of one Frederick Walker. "Walker and his men immediately launched punitive ambushes and actions against marauding Aboriginal groups. With their superior arms, and their willingness to pursue their opponents into broken country, which had seemed too dangerous to the settlers, Walker and his men met with immediate success." A government inquiry into Walkers actions in 1854, led to his dismissal, not for the countless murders committed under his command, but for the "crime" of drunkenness.

As for angles and devils they are simply figments of peoples imagination, like the sanitised version of colonial history of Australia presented by those who refuse to accept reality.

I wonder how things could have turned out if the Aborigines had held a welcome to country ceremony for Cook instead of chucking spears at his lot ?
Sadly, they invented that 250 years to late !

Paul,

GY has your number. You are a vacuous and abusive bigot in desperate need of a dictionary and education.

I can only guess that your claimed tiny fraction of Aboriginal ancestry makes believe that you deserve special status and can't wait to board the gravy train and can sneer at everyone else.

And Graham,

You claim there is no racism on this Forum? Read the previous comment posted by SM. and tell me its not racists. This irrational notion that there is some unjustified Aboriginal "gravy train" and I will be on board simply because I have "claimed tiny fraction of Aboriginal ancestry" demonstrates his racism to me.

Paul1404,
Is there anything that isn’t racist in your tormented mind ?

Indy,

Anyone that disagrees with the village idiot is a racists Nazi.

That he is clearly a racist bigot escapes his tiny mind.

Indy,

One on discovering another has Aboriginal heritage, and then referring to that person as "A Concrete Jungle Bunny" might in some quarters be considered peculiar.

SM,

One who believes the actions of Brenton Tarrant in murdering 51 innocent men, women and children simply because they were Muslims, was nothing more than an act of revenge for the crimes of all Muslims, might also be considered peculiar.

Paul1405,
Change that broken record, it’s becoming boring. Are you upset because when you look in the mirror you see an idiot racist ?

Village idiot,

Everyone thinks you are peculiar.

Graham,

<<On social media my family and I are regularly racially mocked or abused. This is not new. Barely a week goes by when I am not racially targeted. My wife is targeted with abuse for being married to a Wiradjuri man.

I don't even read it, yet I can't escape it. People stop me in the street to tell me how vile it is. They tell me how sorry they are. Although I try to shield myself from it, the fact it is out there poisons the air I breathe.>>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-19/stan-grant-media-target-racist-abuse-coronation-coverage-enough/102368652

So, my point is, I'm not sure what trying to highlight every piece of racism online towards Stan Grant will achieve here, as I feel Stan Grant has quit without seeing a lot of the comments. They may all be very similar. It's more about the feelings more than anything else and if you get a lot of people telling you the racism is out there and it's constant, you will get to the stage where you have simply had enough and leave.

Paul,

In terms of (circus) clowns they're out to get people to laugh, blow up balloons, poke a stick at one of their friends, have fun, run around and play games. It's not overly serious and I don't know how many clowns have the IQ of say Albert Einstein. Clowns on social media that are racist and simply poke sticks at others, they're not people I have a lot of time for but I do want to know why they do what they do, to try and address racism as an issue and see these people go down a better pathway in terms of life.

Stan played the Race game without giving it a thought that it is two-way street game !
Plus, many people realise that two Wrongs will never make a Right ! Too much evidence that it only ends with more unnecessary misery ! No idealism & personal hatred warrants it !

Hi Nathan, thank you for the article,

I was not aware of the racial vilification Stan Grant and his wife were being subjected to from people, truly shocking. Yindyamarra (respect) is something very much lacking in today's society from some quarters. I've put forward my opinion here on the broader subject of racism, and I stand by those opinions. I await with interest Mr Young's essay on the issue, I'm sure it will be most interesting, we may even see it on these pages.

p/s, A common form of racism is as I posted earlier is the "nothing to see here" argument, the sanitation of history, the denial of past realities, the claim of unjustified entitlements its there and its racism.

I mentioned Fredrick Walker the commander of the NSW Native Police from 1848 to 1854. Mr Walker gives a report where he states they (his command) under his personal direction herded a group of Aboriginals into a river, where from the banks they shot them one by one as they emerged from the water, until it was to dark to see. How does one describe that action, murder genocide?

personal direction herded a group of Aboriginals into a river, where from the banks they shot them one by one as they emerged from the water
Paul1405,
What transpired before that ? How many was a group ? It certainly is a horrific action & inexcusable if that group did nothing.

Indy,

Just to highlight what I call genocide;

"They (NSW Native Police Force) conducted wide-ranging and frequent operations resulting in many dispersals and summary mass killings. Governor Fitzroy noted in the 1851 end of year report "that a great many blacks were killed," however no official action was taken to change the aggressive functioning of the force."

"When the first overlanding pastoralists entered the Port Curtis area, the 1st Division of Native Police under Commandant Walker was sent into the region to "have a month's sharp shooting.""

" Further official complaints to the government in Sydney of massacres of peaceful "station blacks" by the Native Police were brushed off in parliament by the Attorney-General as unfounded or exaggerated. Embarrassing information like these reports and further complaints from squatters, such as William Forster, who felt they {pastoral squatter) didn't get enough protection from the force"

George Serocold who was unhappy with the slow progress by the Native Police Force of clearing blanks from newly acquired pastoral lands described the situation as a Border War and called for the importation of the Cape Mounted Rifles from Africa to give a lesson to "these savages as will enable us to gain our moral ascendancy, let them be made to feel the miseries of war"

Would it be churlish to point out that the "Native Police Force" was primarily manned by....ahem....natives.

mhaze,

Not at all, its a fact the rank and file of the Native Police Force were Aboriginal under white command. Like the Jewish Kapo's in Nazi concentration camps they were most effective, and like the Kapo's cheap to employ. The Boarder Police, which preceded the Native Police was made up of Europeans, mostly military convicts and they were ineffective. AND your point is

Quite what happened in Australia 10 generations ago has to do with Grant's tantrum is unclear. But it does seem that in some circles there is a view that because some unsavoury things happened in the past, it justifies anything done in the present. Its inane but accepted without thought by some.

The whole episode vis a vis Grant is a commentary on how thin-skinned the current generation has become. The idea that (often) anonymous comment on so-called social media would be taken seriously by anyone, let alone someone claiming to be a journalist, is difficult to comprehend to a generation raised in the school yard of hard-knocks. I well remember Bob Hawke ripping Richard Carleton a new one during the 1983 election (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aDvcP7-dw). Current 'journalists' would go running for the padded room if so addressed these days and the Karens of the left would pamper the hurt feelz of their comrade beyond all reason.

How one can claim to be capable of reporting hard facts while unravelling at all minor provocation is inane.

It is called a feud.
And they do it because they derive benefit from it.
They are crafty.

And the first thing I learned at school, on the very first day, was...
STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES, BUT HARD WORDS NEVER HURT ME.
And that is as true now as it was then.
Those who are affronted by a casual remark, and run off to the courts to seek solace, need a metaphoric punch on the nose, and a similar kick in the pants?

Paul,

In the 1800s there were also plenty of cases of aboriginals killing settlers.

"In 1824 the situation changed dramatically with the onset of the Black War in which nearly 200 Europeans and an unknown number of Aborigines died. Hostilities were fuelled by competition for the native game (including seals and kangaroo), the assumption of Aboriginal hunting grounds for grazing stock, and the progressive dispossession of Aborigines from their tribal lands. It is no accident that in 1823, the year before the escalation in hostilities, some 441,871 acres were granted to settlers, a ten-fold increase on land allocated in 1821.4

The target of Aboriginal resistance was undoubtedly the lives of the settlers. In 1824 twelve Aboriginal assaults produced twelve European deaths and one wounding, with only one case of plunder recorded. In 1828 Arthur wrote of the Aborigines 'evincing an evident disposition systematically to kill and destroy the white inhabitants'. Although Aborigines such as Mosquito and Black Tom (Kickerterpoller) familiar with European culture played a prominent role during this early period, they capitalised on existing discontent rather than instigating it.5"

Why are we bringing up past history for which has been reported and dealt with and sorry has been officially stated many times. On January 26, 1967, we included all people born in Australia a full citizen which included people living here before settlement of other nationalities. Some of my relatives came here in prison chains removed from their family and friends and were abused, for me that is past, and I do not see a need for reparations. They served their time as convicts in the colony.

The only racists I see on OLO are those that call others "White racist scum". Identifying skin colour or nationality with derision is racism. The ABC and SBS promote race as an advantage to their agenda, rather than promoting personal achievements regardless of their skin colour. Those that use skin colour in reporting events or achievements are unbalanced in promoting equality of humanity.

We are one people living together as one nation, respecting our laws and diversity. Race should not be a part of our constitution.

The Frontier Wars began in Australia in 1788 and continued well into the twentieth century. The last reported open hostility between European settlers and Indigenous natives being reported in the 1930's. The number killed is uncertain, with as many as 2,500 Europeans killed, and upwards of 150,000 indigenous, 30,000 from direct conflict with armed settlers, and government forces, and as many as 120,000 through starvation and disease brought on by disposition.

To describe the above as "unsavoury" is certainly an understatement by a minimalist, who wishes to sanitise history. The notion that the past settler/indigenous relations has no bearing on today is ludicrous, past events, the outcomes of, and reactions to, past events creates a continuum of history up to the present time, that is what shapes our responses of today as we move into the future. That is why "truth telling" is so important in dealing with today's issues.

Some Marxists want to continually promote racist wars from the past. This is not currently the position of Australia, friends of mine have just returned from Katherine NT where over 1,000 aboriginals met for a conference and there was no cultural conflict. They have all learned to forgive [which means let the past go] unlike some racial activists who cannot forgive the past.

Paul,

I'm more than happy to correct your erroneous numbers (and they are bunkum) in a thread devoted to that issue - although I think we've already been down that garden path several times previously- but this is about Grant's meltdown.

This notion that every whine by an ABBAriginal is justified because of what happened a century or two ago is ridiculous. It'd be like the Chinese justifying the Uighur genocide because of the Opium Wars.

Just scrounging around to find an excuse (ANY excuse) to justify poor behaviour.

mhaze,

Wanting to mitigate the impact of past events, uncomfortable as they are for YOU, its a cop out to say; "I'm more than happy to correct your erroneous numbers" and then not to do so, although I have said; "number killed is uncertain". I believe the numbers I have presented are substantially correct, and historians agree, but you may have a source of alternate figures, feel free to present them. The notion of limiting the debate to a narrow band, it has not been the case with YOU in the past, is it YOU trying to avoid the uncomfortable reality, which doesn't suit your narrative. Me thinks maybe just another case of "nothing to see here", from a Usual Suspect, hummmmm!

Hi Paul,
Re mhaze:
"That is why 'truth telling' is so important in dealing with today's issues."

Many here just choose to go with whatever 'truth' suits their existing biases or beliefs, regardless of what is and isn't true.
- It may be more about 'truth selling', than 'truth telling'

Regardless of that I've told you all before I've got a tiny bit of indigenous and know a little of the history,
enough to know they never really got a fair deal, and I think they have a kind of collective inherited PTSD.

But that said, I think there's the life you're given (by your parents)
- And the life you make for yourself, and they're two separate things.

Can't help thinking that many indigenous want to blame others for the lives they made for themselves.
In the past their options may have been more limited but maybe not so much today.

- This is just an outsiders observation though.

If it wasn't for the good will from the descendants of the ignorant settlers, most of whom were pushed here against their will, the indigenous would still huddle in their gunyahs instead of enjoying better conditions for nothing unlike many non-indigenous in this great country who can't afford to rent anymore !
Good Govt jobs with great salaries & no merit required would make any decent character think twice about complaining about those who feed them !

How does making the Constitution racist help any one other than those riding the gravy train?

Hi AC,

I think you and I think alike on many things, if not in total agreement. Talked to a mob of Aboriginal young kids, about 8 or 9 of them, the other night about 10 o'clock. They were doing a bit of "yahooing" around the shopping centre. Asked; "What you fellas doing tonight?" One young bloke said; "liven' life, yep liven' life".....I said; "how's it going?" he say; "Not real good"....Then my mate spoke about a young fellas mentoring program, that runs here in Brisbane, and if interested will lead to trade training (apprenticeship) with placement in several companies that are on board. Just been to a meeting about that very subject. The problem is a viscous circle of neglect.These young folk need more than a job, they need help in life. Anyway we left them with the pamphlet, saying give the mate a call if you want to hear more. Then I said; "where you off to now"...."get a pizza mate, bloody hungry!"

It has become obvious from Stan's meltdown that he wants the removal of the Crown from Australia [he despises British colonization, King and Crown, and Westminster Government]. When the Voice becomes part of the Constitution and the truth telling becomes effective policy and heredity elders rule the decisions on the Land and water resources. Watch this space Stan will enter politics. I say that because he wants change, and he cannot be an impartial journalist and report other people's opinions without bias.

Apart from thinking he has his eyes on Politics, I also think it possible that he's gotten into some difficulties of which we have not yet heard anything ! So, bailing out is probably a very good distraction from what's really going on. But then, I could be reading too much into this !

"The problem is a viscous circle of neglect.These young folk need more than a job, they need help in life."

Give them a handup, not a handout.
- If they don't want to choose a better path, then there's no-one to blame but themselves.
(This fact applies to all people and races)
Many of us didn't get much of a handup or handout either.

The part that I don't like about all this racial animosity, is trying to make white people feel guilty for things that happened to them long ago, and demands for rent, reparations etc.

No-one should feel guilty for anything that happened that they aren't directly responsible for much less anything that happened before they were born, white people should have a sense of sadness for what happened to them, but not guilt, and governments should try and level the playing field so that these people can better their own lots in life.

But I don't necessarily support the government wanting to change the constitution in a divisive manner that makes one group of people more privileged than another.

And indigenous should stop 'hating' on white people, though I can kind of understand why they are that way.
Despite many valid arguments that colonisation did much harm, it also brought with it many benefits that they too should be given a fair chance to make use of to better their own lives.

I caught a few minutes of this show on tv yesterday something to do with indigenous (but it was muted) and they were all wearing western clothes and jewellery and enjoying many of the benefits of the modern world.

I wonder how long it'll be before the Woke get turned on for the damage they're causing !
Some of us can see it already but it'll take the do-gooders several years yet !

Linda Burney, in Question time today stated The Voice will give indigenous people a Voice in Government. She as being the Minister for Indigenous Affairs is supposed to be the voices is obviously failing her position, she claims an unelected Voice will move the Country forward. All hype and no evidence of how? If she cannot move the plight of indigenous forward, and she is the one who will be representing their voices in Parliament, there is no way it will make a difference.

Speaking of using however many droplets of native blood you have to further your career/power/wealth, I noticed that Albo gave the Lowitja O'Donoghue Oration t'other day to explain to the plebs that the constitutionally protected voice will close the supposed gap.

Of course no one was crass enough to point out that O'Donoghue (real name Lois) had attempted to claim stolen generation status to further her standing in the native community. Only after unassailable proof was produced that she wasn't stolen did she back-down. The whole event was swept under the carpet by the compliant media.

Unfortunately poor old Stan can't get away with claiming to be stolen but he can insinuate that he suffered terribly as an native kid despite having all sorts of privileges that led him to university and a career on the public teet.

mhaze,

Straying off topic hummmm, "Albo gave the Lowitja O'Donoghue Oration t'other day" what's that got to do with Stan Grant quitting Q&A? Maybe you can also supply those alternate figures you clam to have, re 'Frontier Wars' since you posted mine are "erroneous" and "bunkum" and you could "correct" them.

I see the majority in parliament voted for the referendum only 121 with 25 actually opposing putting it to a vote of the people. The Cow Cocky Party voted as a block to oppose even giving the people a say on the issue.

GY,

Are you still writing that essay on this Stan Grant issue? The topic is going cold rather quickly, with other matters taking centre stage.

ShadowMinister said- "vacuous and abusive bigot in desperate need of a dictionary".

Answer- Kudos ShadowMinister lol.

Interesting how some had the knives out, believing there was an opportunity presented to bucket on Stan Grant over his Aboriginality. Accusing the bloke of being an over sensitive woozy, unable to take a little bit of good-natured ribbing, or at worse having a secret agenda to exploit his heritage for advantage.

In understanding the elite aboriginal industry, they uphold the land was stolen from them without a treaty, and they have not ceded sovereignty of land. This is proved by the fact of aboriginal land councils have sovereign rights to lands and waters, and Media constant use of welcome to Country by identification of aboriginal tribal lands.

In the minds of the elite total sovereignty is the end goal, which is finally Closing the Gap; and colonists / settlers must lease the land from them, as is happening now in parts of Victoria. They cannot accept British settlement and Crown Land titles as they believe the land was stolen from them. This is why they mourn the loss of their sovereignty. Their agenda is to ultimately be ruled by Tribal Elders and not democratically elected representatives as the Westminster system.

This does not apply to remote aboriginal settlements; they do not want to see the Gap closed. This view only applies to the elite who already have the ear of Government, who want power without elected representation.

One of the Forums leading nut jobs, the bloke who believes there is a red under every bed, gets leave from the sanatorium long enough to stick his nose in and try to do a bit of sh!t stirring. Good onya Wally, better luck next time!

Paul, it is obvious to everyone except you, you cannot debate ideas just abuse debaters.

Jose,

If you can show me "abuse" from me to anyone on this thread, then I'll happily retract it, but until then, when I'm called a "vacuous and abusive bigot in desperate need of a dictionary", and then its backed up by an obvious nut job trying to flame, then I will respond. That includes to the likes of YOU!

Anyway, the bucket was empty and the bucket job on Stan Grant hasn't come off! End of story.

It was stated on NITV news today that by 2037 is the date set for aboriginals to have full sovereignty of Australia, where they will manage all affairs of government. The Voice is just the beginning of the program to achieve full sovereignty.

Jose'

Another one of your alarmist claims without substantiation, "2037 is the date set for aboriginals to have full sovereignty of Australia" set by whom? YOU! A bit like your claim that white people are paid to foster aboriginal children, when I called you on that, you admitted it was something you were dredging up from 50 years ago, simply to imply aboriginal people were unwilling, or incapable, of looking after their own.

We can all make claims to give a false impression.

http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/the-point/article/the-masig-statement-torres-strait-islanders-unveil-voice-from-the-deep/dr8y2x75k
Standing alongside the Uluru statement from the heart is the Masig statement of Torres Strait Island, voice from the deep.
The communities of the Torres Strait are seeking self-determination and regional sovereignty, outlined in a four-point plan called ‘The Masig Statement - Malungu Yangu Wakay (Voice from the Deep)’.

The release of the statement followed prime minister Anthony Albanese and Indigenous Australians minister Linda Burney’s visit to the region last week.

During this visit, representatives from communities across the Torres Strait Islands came together to speak to the the pair about the issues that most concern them.

The document seeks a beginning of regional sovereignty in the Torres Strait by August 2037, heralding the release of the Masig Statement as ‘the beginning of a new beginning’.

http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/grassroots-gathering-discusses-treaty-sovereignty-and-voice-to-parliament/18gyclxyj

This treaty - sovereignty was discussed in Melbourne and they do believe over the land and water they have sovereignty rights. They will not accept British colonization and Crown Land rights to Australia. They want control of Australia as it was, they believe stolen from them.

Wait a moment;

Jose' said; "It was stated on NITV news today that by 2037 is the date set for aboriginals to have full sovereignty of Australia" Australia is a continent of nearly 8 million square kilometres, and 27 million people. The area of the Torres Strait Islands is about 48,000 sq kilometres or around half of one percent of the total land mass, with a population of around 5,000 people or about 0.02% of the total population. Now Jose' is saying; "regional sovereignty in the Torres Strait by August 2037". WELL DON'T YOU JUST LOVE A LIAR! Given his track record for stretching the truth, YOU JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THIS BLOKE.

http://theconversation.com/what-we-mean-when-we-say-sovereignty-was-never-ceded-195205

"If we are to change the constitutional structure of this nation then we need to begin here, at its foundation, with the Voice to Parliament: a permanent institutional mechanism that respects First Nations by recognizing their place and sovereignty in the fabric of government".

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Indigenous_sovereignty

http://australian.museum/learn/first-nations/always-will-be-aboriginal-land/
Uncle William’s father, Uncle Jim Bates, became excited and started telling stories of his Country and land. Uncle William said, "Dad, it’s not your land anymore, whitefellas own it," and Uncle Jim replied, "No, they only borrowed it; it always was, and always will be Aboriginal land."
“Always Was, Always Will Be” is now often chanted at different gatherings, protests and rallies as a reminder that First Nations people have and will continue to fight for their lands and their rights. It continues to respond to the lack of recognition of First Nations sovereignty that is at the core of much of this nation’s structural inequalities and marginalization.

At the Uluru statement it was determined to not just allow minimalist recognition on the Constuction but so uphold full aboriginal sovereignty.
http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/the-uluru-statement-we-never-ceded-sovereignty-but-can-we-join-yours/2uf8133fl
The statement also seeks ‘constitutional reforms to empower our people to take a rightful place in our own country’. But if this rightful place is informed by the assertion of a sovereignty that was never ceded, then such a place already exists. It does not need to be empowered or sought within other people’s constitutions, though it does need to be recognised alongside settler sovereignty.

THE NIAA is typical of aboriginal financial rorts and is equivalent to Voice.

http://www.2gb.com/oversights-in-national-indigenous-australians-agency/

Wherever Native Title has been granted, by the High Court to aboriginal tribal lands, persons entering are considered trespassers.
http://www.2gb.com/ray-hadley-key-point-on-voice-initial-action-list-is-already-happening/

I believe Stan will become part of the Voice to government to gain total sovereignty of all aboriginal identified tribal lands even if it means going to the High Court. He is not happy with British colonization and Westminster Government control of the land and citizens.

So Welcome to Country will be enforced to anyone not of that local tribe. The Elders will take administrative control of lands identified under their Mob. The NIAA $4.5B funding will then be distributed to the twenty-four tribes represented by the Voice currently the NIAA.

Jose,

Can't believe a word YOU say, caught YOU out lying a couple of posts ago. YOU claimed; ""It was stated on NITV news today that by 2037 is the date set for aboriginals to have full sovereignty of Australia" Given your lying on that score, I suspect YOU are racially motivated to fabricate negative nonsense against Aboriginal people. Correct me if I am wrong.

Welcome to Country was invented 253 years too late. Could have saved a lot of problems !

Maybe we should say something about the shocking sexual abuse of Aboriginal children in Catholic run orphanages by old white guys, as highlighted on this weeks 4-Corners program. The Catholic Church, like so many here, also like to apply the "nothing to see here rule" when it comes to past treatment of Aboriginals.

Indy, another comment with racists undertones from you.

I got the impression that he is suffering from depression and having a hard time making sense of it. I hope that he gets good care and support. Making him a drum seems a bit exploitative.

If you are familiar with World events, you will know Greenland has gained native title from Denmark and will be governed by the aboriginal population, even as Papua New Guinea gained independence from Australia. The movement is to reinstate aboriginal sovereignty over tribal lands around the World, and remove colonial powers, this is where Closing the Gap is moving toward. "Always was and always will Be is the cry;" despite Paul's disbelief and character rantings.

Jose',

You are getting desperate, Greenland indeed, after lying, not a word from you on your deception that, "It was stated on NITV news today that by 2037 is the date set for aboriginals to have full sovereignty of Australia" YOU knew that was untrue when you posted it, but your racism and bigotry prevents you from doing otherwise.

What can you tell us about old white guys in your christian churches sexually abusing aboriginal children as young as 4 and 5. Maybe you were at the black and white social you claimed went on in your town.

Josephus,
PNG is independent ? $1.25 Million/day since 1975 from Australia is not independent in my book !