Hey ttbn,
"If there is an armed conflict with China, you are very likely to find yourself in an internment camp, such is your obviously anti-Australian, anti-Western ranting."

I doubt China will invade us.
But if that happens I guess it will be because of people like you,
- who supported constant meddling in their internal affairs and a war against them.
I just wish the whole world could learn to respect each other and get along.
By the time we get these stupid subs the war will probably have been long over.
- And I keep telling you all that if we lose our trade with China, it will be the equivalent of nuking ourselves anyway.

Tell me,
Can you make a TV set, computer or a mobile phone?
Can anyone in Australia do that?
Who are we going to export our stuff to?

Hi Rhian,
"The government has said the subs will not be nuclear armed, and there is every reason to expect that to be the case. It would not be in our interests."
- No those subs wont be armed with nuclear weapons, but those nukes will be stashed away at some US base in Australia, ready to be loaded and used in those subs when needed, and under US supervision.
- We shouldn't kid ourselves.

I'll do you all a deal and meet you halfway for a compromise.
I'll support Australia and the Wests defense unwavering
If the Australia and the West stop their own offense forces
- meddling in other peoples countries

China especially is a big boy now, and has it's own big boy pants on.
No need to nanny it like a child or wipe its bum and tell it what to do

- Because I don't want to endure a bloody and pointless war.

AC

Your ending up in an internment camp has nothing to do with invasion. People were interned in Australia during WW11. There was no invasion. About 12,000 of them. And, it's China meddling in our internal affairs. You don't seem to know anything. You wish "the whole world would respect each other". Grow up!

"Who are we going to export our stuff to?". Well, to the other two thirds of our customers, and the new customers that have been found since China started its trade restrictions against us.

Only idiots think that a Communist, totalitarian country can be dealt with just like democratic countries similar to us are dealt with.

And, the "support" or lack of it by an anonymous ignoramus ranting on the internet is neither here nor there.

You keep "telling" me about China trade? How old are you that you don't remember that we were fine without China, and we actually used to manufacture things in Australia?

Nobody wants a war except, perhaps, China. And the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one. Australia is not ready, thanks to the indifference of the political class and a population of idiots like you.

You keep 'telling' me about China trade? How old are you that you don't remember that we were fine without China, and we actually used to manufacture things in Australia?

Yeah I remember that, what happened to that?
We get all our stuff from China now.

"Nobody wants a war except, perhaps, China. And the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one. Australia is not ready, thanks to the indifference of the political class and a population of idiots like you.

What would it take for us to be 'ready'?
Maybe we should start manufacturing ballistic missiles, nuclear warheads, hypersonic missiles, long-range surface to air missiles...
- What's the timeline for our nuclear submarines again?
Late 2030's

How much stuff do you think China can build in 15 years
- It's going to take us 20 years just to build our first nuclear submarine.
China is a leader in 37 of 44 critical technologies and has an industrial manufacturing base greater than US and Europe combined, and Saudi Arabia are joining BRICS and the SCO, which means the US Petrodollar will become a thing of the past, no-one will buy US bonds which the US needs to fund its debt obligations and will collapse.

I can understand you saying the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one, like maybe if the subs HAD nukes (which they probably will have stashed away somewhere) then maybe they won't try anything if we can give them a blood nose, but since for every one thing we can build China will build 100, like a midget fighting Tyson, how exactly can we win, when China's strategy is 'winning without fighting', which means we must pick the fight, with everyone fighting so far from home, how can we win?

When all is said and done, the west will be left behind like 3rd world nations with nothing but a handful of armed nuclear subs putting around in the ocean while China has 100 times as many.

So hows this all going to work?

The country with the most to lose from a war is China, their economy is going ahead in leaps and bounds and has been doing so for the past few decades. On the other hand the United States is economically in decline and a war would boost that economy. The US has a history of promoting aggressive wars throughout the world for economic advantage. It has been in times of war that the America has thrived, then in peace it goes into stagnation.

As for these nuk subs delivery, when has a major war contract been delivered on time, never, you can bet if the politicians are spruiking 2040, you can add 10 years to that date, no sweat!

Hi AC,

When ttbn locks you up in his concentration camp for the politically non-compliant I'll pop on down and drop ya a cake with a file in it so you can escape. In those places they use torture, you will be forced to listen to endless hours of ttbn ravings on the camp radio.

The trouble with these old blokes on the forum is when it comes to war, they are still thinking with a Boar War mentality. "We'll fight them in the trenches, we'll fight them on the beaches, we will never surrender!". ttbn and his ilk think with this China war they will be safe and sound back in Australia, a million miles from the action, not so fellas!

You know really, if China was the great big threat you all say it is, then how stupid is the west exactly for not accepting Russia when it had the chance? At the end of the cold war the US kept pushing this attitude where we are the rulers of the world now and you are subservient to us and we will rob you of your wealth...
Where did that attitude get us exactly?

Move forward to the Shanghai five which became the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, and the west just kept going with it's rule the entire world mentality, wanting to expand NATO

The purpose of NATO was "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down,"
Well the west has done a great job of that blowing up Nordsteam and overthrowing Ukraine in a coup in 2014, trying to conduct overthrows in Turkey, Belarus, Georgia and Kazakhstan amongst others...

Meanwhile as for the Shanghai Five, annual summits occurred in Almaty, Kazakhstan in 1998, in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan in 1999, and in Dushanbe, Tajikistan in 2000. At the Dushanbe summit, members agreed to "oppose intervention in other countries' internal affairs on the reason of 'humanitarianism' and 'protecting human rights;' and support the efforts of one another in safeguarding the five countries' national independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and social stability."

The West won't stop with it's meddling in other peoples countries, it's just imperialism, by 'humanitarianism' and 'human rights'.

Even now in Georgia pro-western protests were started to PREVENT a law that made foreign agents identify themselves and their activities.
- Laws that all western nations have for themselves.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64899041

'Do as I say, not as I do'.
- It's just a policy of endless strife and meddling, by the west.
Tell me, just how many people have to die for it?