Once more Australia is playing its part in America's war preparations. Under the guise of "peace and stability" Australia has signed a "down payment" $200 billion deal to purchase nuclear powered, and presumably nuclear armed, submarines from the Worlds two biggest warmongers America and Britain.

Make no mistake the capitalist economy of America, and therefore the rest of the world, including Australia, is teetering on collapse. With massive bank failures, due to investments in phoney money, escalating interest rates as the bond holders try to recoup capital losses, added to this is a plunging stock market, reflecting the worthlessness of US business, all shades of 1929 revisited.

Americas only salvation is war with their biggest political and economic rival, China. The war in Ukraine has failed to cut it as far as US Capitalism is concerned, and only a China War will offer relief, as trillions of dollars are injected back into American Capitalism.

Unfortunately for the Americans and World Capitalism, China is no Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan where past US wars of aggression have helped stabilise Capitalism back home through massive wealth transference. Australia may be getting nuclear subs on the never never plan, but China has nuclear weapons here and now!

Paul, I hear you clapping for the rise of Communism and the power of China's war preparedness.

No Josephus, that wasn't Paul you heard clapping it was me.

- And I wasn't clapping for the rise of communism, I was clapping for the downfall of the wests policies of endless wars, and it's standard foreign policy of threats, blackmail, regime change and military interventions.

I support a multipolar world where nations treat each other respectfully, not don't stage coloured revolutions or involve themselves in other nations internal affairs.

I oppose economic sanctions as collective punishment and I also oppose the Wests attempts to conduct regime changes and install their own western-friendly puppet rulers.

AC

If there is an armed conflict with China, you are very likely to find yourself in an internment camp, such is your obviously anti-Australian, anti-Western ranting.

The government has said the subs will not be nuclear armed, and there is every reason to expect that to be the case. It would not be in our interests. The Australian public would hate it. We have legal obligations under non-proliferation treaties that forbid it. It would make us an international pariah. Perhaps most importantly, two of the countries most likely to oppose it would be the UK and USA, which are part of the highly exclusive nuclear armed club and are fiercely committed to not admitting new members, even friendly ones.

The world is becoming a more dangerous and uncertain place, and we need the ability to defend ourselves and our national interest. We will also need allies to do that. I hope they don’t only come from the Anglosphere – the many countries in Southern and Eastern Asia that respect democracy and the rule of law also have an interest in forging alliances, be they economic, political and/or military.

And now Paul Keating wants to tell us all how to do it.

You would think that a bloke who was so incompetent when he had the "leavers" as he called it, in his hands he gave us 17% interest rates, would have the decency to shut up & slink away.

Hey ttbn,
"If there is an armed conflict with China, you are very likely to find yourself in an internment camp, such is your obviously anti-Australian, anti-Western ranting."

I doubt China will invade us.
But if that happens I guess it will be because of people like you,
- who supported constant meddling in their internal affairs and a war against them.
I just wish the whole world could learn to respect each other and get along.
By the time we get these stupid subs the war will probably have been long over.
- And I keep telling you all that if we lose our trade with China, it will be the equivalent of nuking ourselves anyway.

Tell me,
Can you make a TV set, computer or a mobile phone?
Can anyone in Australia do that?
Who are we going to export our stuff to?

Hi Rhian,
"The government has said the subs will not be nuclear armed, and there is every reason to expect that to be the case. It would not be in our interests."
- No those subs wont be armed with nuclear weapons, but those nukes will be stashed away at some US base in Australia, ready to be loaded and used in those subs when needed, and under US supervision.
- We shouldn't kid ourselves.

I'll do you all a deal and meet you halfway for a compromise.
I'll support Australia and the Wests defense unwavering
If the Australia and the West stop their own offense forces
- meddling in other peoples countries

China especially is a big boy now, and has it's own big boy pants on.
No need to nanny it like a child or wipe its bum and tell it what to do

- Because I don't want to endure a bloody and pointless war.

AC

Your ending up in an internment camp has nothing to do with invasion. People were interned in Australia during WW11. There was no invasion. About 12,000 of them. And, it's China meddling in our internal affairs. You don't seem to know anything. You wish "the whole world would respect each other". Grow up!

"Who are we going to export our stuff to?". Well, to the other two thirds of our customers, and the new customers that have been found since China started its trade restrictions against us.

Only idiots think that a Communist, totalitarian country can be dealt with just like democratic countries similar to us are dealt with.

And, the "support" or lack of it by an anonymous ignoramus ranting on the internet is neither here nor there.

You keep "telling" me about China trade? How old are you that you don't remember that we were fine without China, and we actually used to manufacture things in Australia?

Nobody wants a war except, perhaps, China. And the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one. Australia is not ready, thanks to the indifference of the political class and a population of idiots like you.

You keep 'telling' me about China trade? How old are you that you don't remember that we were fine without China, and we actually used to manufacture things in Australia?

Yeah I remember that, what happened to that?
We get all our stuff from China now.

"Nobody wants a war except, perhaps, China. And the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one. Australia is not ready, thanks to the indifference of the political class and a population of idiots like you.

What would it take for us to be 'ready'?
Maybe we should start manufacturing ballistic missiles, nuclear warheads, hypersonic missiles, long-range surface to air missiles...
- What's the timeline for our nuclear submarines again?
Late 2030's

How much stuff do you think China can build in 15 years
- It's going to take us 20 years just to build our first nuclear submarine.
China is a leader in 37 of 44 critical technologies and has an industrial manufacturing base greater than US and Europe combined, and Saudi Arabia are joining BRICS and the SCO, which means the US Petrodollar will become a thing of the past, no-one will buy US bonds which the US needs to fund its debt obligations and will collapse.

I can understand you saying the only way to prevent war is to be ready to fight one, like maybe if the subs HAD nukes (which they probably will have stashed away somewhere) then maybe they won't try anything if we can give them a blood nose, but since for every one thing we can build China will build 100, like a midget fighting Tyson, how exactly can we win, when China's strategy is 'winning without fighting', which means we must pick the fight, with everyone fighting so far from home, how can we win?

When all is said and done, the west will be left behind like 3rd world nations with nothing but a handful of armed nuclear subs putting around in the ocean while China has 100 times as many.

So hows this all going to work?

The country with the most to lose from a war is China, their economy is going ahead in leaps and bounds and has been doing so for the past few decades. On the other hand the United States is economically in decline and a war would boost that economy. The US has a history of promoting aggressive wars throughout the world for economic advantage. It has been in times of war that the America has thrived, then in peace it goes into stagnation.

As for these nuk subs delivery, when has a major war contract been delivered on time, never, you can bet if the politicians are spruiking 2040, you can add 10 years to that date, no sweat!

Hi AC,

When ttbn locks you up in his concentration camp for the politically non-compliant I'll pop on down and drop ya a cake with a file in it so you can escape. In those places they use torture, you will be forced to listen to endless hours of ttbn ravings on the camp radio.

The trouble with these old blokes on the forum is when it comes to war, they are still thinking with a Boar War mentality. "We'll fight them in the trenches, we'll fight them on the beaches, we will never surrender!". ttbn and his ilk think with this China war they will be safe and sound back in Australia, a million miles from the action, not so fellas!

You know really, if China was the great big threat you all say it is, then how stupid is the west exactly for not accepting Russia when it had the chance? At the end of the cold war the US kept pushing this attitude where we are the rulers of the world now and you are subservient to us and we will rob you of your wealth...
Where did that attitude get us exactly?

Move forward to the Shanghai five which became the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, and the west just kept going with it's rule the entire world mentality, wanting to expand NATO

The purpose of NATO was "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down,"
Well the west has done a great job of that blowing up Nordsteam and overthrowing Ukraine in a coup in 2014, trying to conduct overthrows in Turkey, Belarus, Georgia and Kazakhstan amongst others...

Meanwhile as for the Shanghai Five, annual summits occurred in Almaty, Kazakhstan in 1998, in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan in 1999, and in Dushanbe, Tajikistan in 2000. At the Dushanbe summit, members agreed to "oppose intervention in other countries' internal affairs on the reason of 'humanitarianism' and 'protecting human rights;' and support the efforts of one another in safeguarding the five countries' national independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and social stability."

The West won't stop with it's meddling in other peoples countries, it's just imperialism, by 'humanitarianism' and 'human rights'.

Even now in Georgia pro-western protests were started to PREVENT a law that made foreign agents identify themselves and their activities.
- Laws that all western nations have for themselves.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64899041

'Do as I say, not as I do'.
- It's just a policy of endless strife and meddling, by the west.
Tell me, just how many people have to die for it?

AC you make theoretical claims without any factual evidence.

Australia's future nuclear propelled submarines don't need to be nuclear armed.

They will be defending US nuclear armed missile submarines (SSBNs)
at a cost of only A$368 Billion dollars, mainly sent overseas to the US and eventually the UK.

In the meantime, till 2053, we can forget spending too much on non-military luxuries like

medical care, aged care, childcare, education or roads.

The thought of 8 nuclear propelled submarines, each averaging $40 Billions, will keep us healthy in our new shanties of hospitals.

AC, is it possible for you to stop posting outright lies?

China's manufacturing capacity is not greater than the US and EU combined. And many of the high-value products are designed in the US and EU.

China is a bigger threat to Russia than it is to the west and the two countries have already fought a war. China is eyeing eastern Russia, and after the Russian army has been beaten to scrap, China can take this without a fight, and the West is not coming to Russia's defense.

Hi Josephus,
"AC you make theoretical claims without any factual evidence."
- What, precisely are you referring to"

NATO
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_137930.htm
>>Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay was NATO’s first Secretary General, a position he was initially reluctant to accept. By the end of his tenure however, Ismay had become the biggest advocate of the organisation he had famously said earlier on in his political career, was created to “keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”<<

Coloured Revolutions / attempted coups in Turkey, Belarus, Georgia and Kazakhstan, may take some time to go into.

Nordstream, Have you read Seymour Hersh's article?
Or maybe you believe the Western 'Gilligan's Island' 'SS Minnow' narrative?
Which they only came out with to counter Sy Hersh's article.
http://youtu.be/cfR7qxtgCgY

Denmark Says Alleged New Explosive Device on Nord Stream Doesn’t Pose Security Threat
http://sputniknews.com/20230316/denmark-says-alleged-new-explosive-device-on-nord-stream-doesnt-pose-security-threat-1108444910.html

Putin says another Nord Stream bomb has probably been found
http://tass.com/russias-foreign-policy/1588759

I heard some German minister suggested that 'fisherman' may have done it the other day, maybe you believe that?

Hi Shadowminister
What have I lied about?
There's always a basis to everything I say on this forum.

As far as Chinese industrial manufacturing capacity being greater than the US and EU combined, that's what I've been told, though I don't understand the exact methodology behind the claim, but I'll try to find out.
I don't think the calculation was given in terms of actual value.
But the impacts of the energy crisis are seeing more European businesses turn to China.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202209/1275701.shtml

"Companies doing cross-continental businesses are shifting the focus of their supply chains from Europe to China due to cost rise and energy shortage in Europe. Due to geopolitical factors, many European companies are now transferring orders from local factories to Chinese suppliers, or simply building their own factories in China, which has been resilient despite global turbulences, industry insiders said. Some Chinese businesspeople said the orders from European clients jumped by 20 percent this month."

The West has destroyed themselves in Ukraine, bringing Russia, China, BRICS and SCO closer; and the SVB crisis crossed over into Europe
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/credit-suisse-silicon-valley-bank

Maybe it has something to do with this, and it's old data.
http://www.statista.com/chart/20858/top-10-countries-by-share-of-global-manufacturing-output/

Clearly China in 2019 had more manufacturing output than US, Germany, Italy, France and the UK combined, and that was 4 years ago.

Funny. People in the know say that China’s economy is stalling; but the site's CCP representative says it's "going ahead in leaps and bounds". I'll stick with the former, who undoubtedly would know it was the Boer War, not the Boar War the ignoramus is yapping about, and the stuff about fighting on beaches and in trenches came from Winston Churchill during WW11. And "ttbn" has said on several occasions that EVERYBODY would be involved in a war with China.

The general rule with this Paul 1405 character is: whatever he says, the exact opposite is true.

AC, who hates the West, and gets more irrelevant with every post, is probably a person of interest to ASIO - or scrutiny by Australia 's National Mental Health Strategy might be more appropriate.

"AC, who hates the West, and gets more irrelevant with every post, is probably a person of interest to ASIO - or scrutiny by Australia 's National Strategy might be more appropriate."

I don't hate the West ttbn, I just think democracy is a bit of a rigged system and hate the Wests endless wars, threats, blackmail, regime change and military interventions, which we obviously support.
If standing up for the idea that WWIII is a really bad idea, or that people and nations should treat each other with respect and decency or that I believe I have every right to stand up for what I think is right is a crime, then I'm guilty.

"And 'ttbn' has said on several occasions that EVERYBODY would be involved in a war with China."

Were you quoting something Paul said there or talking about yourself in the third person?

I think you meant to say "I've said";
You probably shouldn't throw 'mental health' around when you talk about yourself in the third person.

If China ever gets short of raw materials, where will they go to obtain them? Australia? We are a large supplier of many mining and agricultural products, they are of more value than the people of Australia who do not hold their world view.

That's right ttbn as the forums boar or is that bore, maybe both, you would know, its the Boer War and not the Boar War, I wasn't born at the time, unlike you who was probably there. Yes I know it was WC who raved on about trenches and beaches. Did you know, WC was at the Boer War.

Piling more stupidity on the top of stupidity is so you.

In what should be a shock to us all, Australia has been forced into a deal whereby we pay undisclosed billions for old American rust bucket, war surplus, obsolete nuclear submarines, in about 10 years time.

The "piece de resistance" is Australia blindly agrees to go to war with China once given the American order to do so! This is an outrageous abuse of Australian sovereignty! And its not the first time, an Australian warship came under direct American orders during the Iraq War without the Australian governments knowledge or agreement.

What is not a shock is that Paul is lying again. This purchase of nuclear submarines was not forced on us and fills a huge gap in our naval defense that diesel subs cannot fill.

The Nuclear Subs we are purchasing are harder to detect underwater and can last longer underwater before surfacing. Currently we are more dependent servant of China than the USA for goods.

Hey Jose' and SM

If being under water is the go, and if America so demands, we should buy the 'Titanic' for a trillion dollars, its been under water for 111 years.

Why are you blokes such sycophants when it comes to America

Hi Josephus,
"Currently we are more dependent servant of China than the USA for goods."
- Just because we buy their stuff doesn't make us their servant.
Trade benefits both parties and need not be political.

Paul,

Why are you such a fanboy of murderous dictators?

SM,

I'm not a fan of either Biden or Trump, and you as a "Trumpster" I'm also not a fan of your extremist far right opinions.

BTW, how's your 10 peso a day job at the Pickle Factory going?

Paul,

From your singing Trump's praises, you are a Trump fanboy. And I am not fond of your extremist left-whinge ideologies or outright lies either.

Is being so ugly hurting your rent boy business?

SM,

I think Trump is a dangerous physio who needs locking up! I don't care for the old fool in charge now, I don't care if the governor of Alabama, Louisiana or any other tinpot place in America becomes the next President, they are all wackos!

Paul,

You said "I think Trump is a dangerous physio"

Does he give bad back rubs?

Nah SM,

Trump got that and a bit more from the Porn star Stormy Daniels. Trump is a psycho and needs locking up. I know you don't agree, as like all the other Trumpsters you think the sun shines out of the nut jobs arse. That Liberal reprobate Tuchy Tudge was doing a Trump as well. I see you made no comment about the by-election result.

BTW; Hows that job of yours going, I hear you got a promotion, they gave you a bigger mop and a larger bucket, well done old cock.

PaulTrumpfanboy.

Congrats on being promoted to cleaning the toilets at Goulburn prison. At least you will have your bum chum Trump's arse to kiss.

Stormy,

Your comebacks are terrible, no originality of thought what so ever, YOU must improve, or Dangerous Doctor Donald wont allow you private conjugal visiting rights at all! Now that would be a disappointment for you, old cock.