I know very little about this subject and I would
like to hear from the posters on this forum - their
understanding of "transgender." What it means - and
should our communities be better informed to help people
understand what prejudices and discriminations transgender
people have to live with and how can we make things better
for us all?

The more we assign importance to this division by gender, the more we talk about it, the more people will become desperate to identify with one or the other and anxious when their body does not fit their gender expectations.

This gender-based tension may have been a survival mechanism when people died young and procreation was paramount, but it has no positive role today.

As procreation should become a thing of the past due to overpopulation, so should gender.
And as gender becomes a thing of the past, no one would feel that pressure to modify their corresponding bodily features.

Once nobody is known by gender anyway, once society does not pay any attention to genders, once the differences between certain bodily features stop being considered a big-deal, all gender and transgender prejudices and discriminations would fall off on their own.

People of one sex believing that they are of the opposite sex are deluded. People who support them by agreeing with their delusion, are not doing them any favours; and they are outright liars, pretending that the deluded souls are something that they are not.

Understanding what it's like to be transgender is hard.
I watched a recent program where the parents of a young
school girl talked about their experiences and what their
child had to go through both at school and in society in
general to be accepted as a girl when she was born a boy.

For those of us who have never met a transgender person
understanding is not an easy thing.

I've never really thought much about it all. My understanding
is very basic. I've always thought transgender was a term used
to describe people whose gender identity is different from the
gender they were thought to be when they were born.

In other words someone born as a boy may internally feel they
are a girl and vice versa. It's an internal thing. Which many
of us can't quite grasp. I feel that we need to treat people
with respect according to how they identify - not how they
were born.

We should not judge others because we have not experienced
what they are feeling and/or how they are treated.

O)ne's sex ID is a medical term - a label - male or female
that we're given, that we are assigned at birth based on
the appearance of our genitals - that we were born with.
Our genitals do not define who we are or what our gender
identification will turn out to be.

That's the way I understand things.

The more we learn about each other - perhaps the more
tolerant we may learn to be of our differences.

I remember reading the biography of cate McGregor -
who was born a bloke and later in life transgendered.
He was a close friend of Tony Abbott - and Mr Abbott when
he found out about his mate's identity change - said it made no
difference to their friendship. Which I greatly admired.

I've also read the biography of Carlotta (Les Girls), the famous
performer, and TV personality. And there are quite a few others.

It would be very difficult, to not have the support
of family and friends.

And then we have people like Shane Jenek - also
known as Courteney Act. I've read about the sassy
exterior where a young man struggled with his
identity. He initially presented himself as a Drag
Queen - the very female stereotype, feminine illusion.
Today his identity is "gender fluid."

He/she has come to realize that you don't have to
conform to one spectrum or the other identity. That
we should identify people on a wider scale and try to
understand things a little bit

I don't think anyone can even try to understand the minds of people who are either brought into this world as a non-standard or wilfully work on being non-standard.
I have no problems if those affected try to find solutions but burdening others is not right. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people all with some problem or another. They go & see a Doctor etc. but they don't demand others to take on their problems.
If there is physical deformation modern medicine has done some incredible work but I don't believe someone's personal desires should be a burden to the wider community.

indyvidual,

Unfortunately not everyone is as understanding as yourself.
Not everyone believes in the "Live and let live," philosophy.
It becomes a huge problem when people are bullied
at school, work, and in our society in general for being
"different." It then becomes a problem for us all but
particularly for the people who are "different" and their
families and friends.

The Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews is determined to make
schools and work places "safe," for all. And that is a
worthwhile endeavour for a State Premier.

As Courteney Act stated:

" We need straight allies to accept queer people!"

Indyvidual

I agree with you. The people who pretend to understand - the liars I mentioned - are doing so because it suits their political agendas: wreck the joint; divide society; bully everyone they don't like; take our minds off the real issues we should be facing instead of trendy Woke rubbish.

I don't care if these poor deluded fools want to call themselves something they clearly are not - pretending that they are not one of the only two sexes available at birth. Free country. They can talk and think any shite that they want to; just don't expect any sane person to take notice - because that's all a lot of them want: to be noticed.

ttbn, once again your compassion and empathy towards your fellow beings astounds me.

If you really believe that a person struggling to understand who they really are, not who they have been told they are, and how they fit into the world around them is really doing so because "... it suits their political agendas..." that they want to "... wreck the joint; divide society; bully everyone they don't like..." simply to "... take our minds off the real issues..." there is no hope.

In reality you are projecting your own wilful blindness, your bias and your agenda onto anyone who doesn't toe your version of what the line should be. It's really pathetic.

Once upon a time Right-wing and conservative politics
in Australia used to be all about individualism.
They considered themselves s "broad church."

So what's happened? Judging from a few comments here
apparently to some people it is wrong for individuals
to identify with the gender that they feel they are.
It seems that - MALE or FEMALE - tick one box only is
what's allowed.

I'm trying to understand why?

Is it a form of religious extremism?

What other reason can there be? To sink to a new low
and spread hate against a group of people who are not
hurting anybody, spreading vilification and misinformation
and resenting people the freedom to exist to be themselves
however they choose to define themselves.

I'm surprised that far more unrelated words like "communists"
have not been thrown in for good measure to gaslight their
hatred.

There are three broad categories of transgenders...

1. A vanishingly small number of people are actually born with screwed up genes which means they are physically both male and female to varying degrees eg mostly male with some female attributes, mostly female with some male attributes and everything in-between. This is probably devastating for said folk and society should throw all the resources at its disposal at these people to give a semblance of whatever normal life they want. Again the numbers of these people is a small fraction of 1% of the population.

2. People who have all the attributes of one sex or t'other but believe themselves to be other than what their biology says ie people with a penis who think they should be female, or people with a uterus who feel male. While still a fraction of 1% of the population the people in this category are somewhat larger in number than category 1. These people are suffering a mental illness in that their brain is telling them something different to reality. That's not to say they are deranged, just delusional. This group need to be firstly treated for their illness but if it cannot be resolved then they ought to be allowed to exist as the gender they chose, within limits.

/cont

/cont
3. This group makes up the bulk of transgenders. They have no discernible traits of the gender they claim to be and have come to the view that they are other than their biological sex in their teens. A very high portion of this group suffer depression. Are they depressed because they feel different to what their body and society tells them they are or do they want to change gender because they are depressed? Chicken-egg. The trans community assures these people that their depression will be resolved once they transition. But the data for that claim is scant and there is growing evidence that transitioning doesn't resolve depression for many transitioners. Rather it increases it. There is good evidence that these people are influenced by group-think and current trendiness. A portion of these transitioners regret the decision and seek to go back to their original sex. The tragedy for these folk is that a number will have their body irreversibly physically altered through hormones or surgery, only to regret the decision later. Society should make such decisions difficult to achieve and should ensure that it never is allowed to be done to teens.

There is a further group that we can ignore - people who transition for advantage
eg http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11680651/Transgender-rapist-Isla-Bryson-leaves-womens-prison-bars-male-unit.html

All of this is about the transgender person. The problem becomes that many such people demand changes to society to suit their proclivities, demanding that all should , by force of law, accept the new sex selection of the transgender, be it in sport or bathrooms. That's where the line must be drawn.

Here is the link to the documentary that I watched.
Georgie Stone - an interesting film.

http://refinery29.com/en-au/2022/09/11126593/dreamlife-of-georgie-stone-netflix

Another link worth a read:

http://nowtolove.com.au/news/real-life/cate-mcgregor-talks-transitioning-from-male-to-female-10273

This whole subject is an exercise in unreality.
The DNA makes the decision, nothing else.
The whole matter is one of either fashion or a psychiatric disorder.
The teachers who have been pushing this in schools should be dismissed
immediately and never reemployed in occupations with children.
The harm that has been done to children justifies charges and as for
doctors who administer drugs or even worse surgery should never be
allowed to practise medicine again.

Where will this slippery slope end ?
Foxy, have you been to Davos lately ?

Hi Bazz,

Our realities appear to differ. There usually in life
are exceptions. You point out that sex chromosomes
usually determine whether you are female or male. However
your gender identity is internal. It's what you identify as.
And even in sex chromosomes there are exceptions as
Danish researchers show:

http://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-then-expected-are-genetically-men/

You asked if I've been to Davos recently?

Only virtually.

Onya, Bazz!

Hi Foxy,

Only ever met a couple of "Trannies" in my lifetime, never done me harm, so I have no desire to interfere in their lifestyle. Why is it these crusty old conservative farts want to tell others how they will live their lives. Considering the state of patheticness these old fellas end up in, why would anyone base their life on their demands.

Live and let live, I say.

In one of many such incidents, two school girls were raped in their school bathroom by a biological male claiming to be transgender. The transgender girl/boy wore the female school uniform and school policy allowed him/her to use the girl's bathroom. When he complained, the father of one of the girls was arrested.

This all happened in the US where they are much further down this path than we are. But we are catching up.

As to the female victims? Just tell the girls to "live and let live".

Hi Paul,

I also don't know any transgender people personally.
It wasn't something I was even aware of growing up in
a strictly Catholic home. It was much later that I
got to know a family whose son had been born with
two sets of genitalia and the parents had to make the
choice for him as to which he was going to keep.

He was a very handsome boy, well known in the community
for his sport. His parents ended up moving inter-state
where I heard he eventually got married, had kids,
and I don't know where he is today. We lost touch.
I remember when I was growing up I used to pray for
God to give him "A good body," just like the rest of us.
I wasn't aware of my bias.

Anyway, it's only recently that I have discovered that gender
diverse and transgender people around the world are subject
to levels of violence and discrimination. That they are caught
in a spiral of exclusion and marginalization. That they are
often bullied at school, rejected by their family,
pushed out into the street and denied access to employment,
and so on.

And if they happen to be people of colour, or belong to ethnic
minorities or are migrants, or are living with HIV, or are
sex workers - they are particularly at risk of violence,
killings, beatings, mutilation, rape, murder, and other
abuses.

Today the vast majority of transgender people don't have access
to gender recognition by the state. This scenario creates a
legal vacuum and a climate that fosters stigma and prejudice
against them.

Legal gender recognition is still a distant dream for many.

http://pulloslawyers.com.au/transgender-rights-in-australia-differ-from-other-countries/

mhaze,

Do you blame entire group of people for the behaviour
of a few within that group? For example - do you blame
religious groups for the behaviour of fundamentalists
and extremists within their groups? Are all clergy
sexual abusers? Are all gays sexual perverts? And the
lists go on.

Calm down Foxy...you're becoming hysterical (in both senses of the word) again.

No I don't say all transpeople are the same. Did I say anything to suggest that to a calm reader? But equally there are clearly some problems and they have to be addressed. Just saying that most trans are OK therefore we should ignore the problems isn't a solution.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541

http://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2023/01/29/trans-prisoner-who-stalked-13-year-old-girl-transferred-to-womens-prison-n1666030

I don't know what's wrong with these female prisoners. Don't they know that some transwomen are good and therefore they should ignore the threats? Live and let live.

We should also consider the detransitioning issue..."The participants' decision to detransition was most often tied to the realization that their gender dysphoria was related to other issues"
http://segm.org/first_large_study_of_detransitioners

Detransitioning becomes somewhat problematic after your tits have been cut-off.

"What does it mean to be transgender?"

Probably best to and ask transgenders, how should any non-transgender person comprehend what goes on in these peoples minds?

If you want my opinion, on face value probably a further exaggeration of a mental illness.

Instead of a boy saying "I want to be a girl" or a girl saying "I want to be a boy".
It's a boy saying "I am a girl" or a girl saying "I am a boy" and the rest of you are wrong for arguing otherwise.

None of us got to choose the sex we were assigned in the womb, only a few can't cope with this reality and are encouraged by others of the same belief.

mhaze,

My apologies. I misunderstood you.

Of course there are problems - that need to be
debated. Vulnerable women continue to get the
short end of the stick on the growing conflict
between women's rights and transgender rights
when it comes to female - only spaces and services.

Under self-identification laws in some states
(Victoria, Tasmania, SA, NT, and ACT) trans people can
self-nominate their sex as male, female, or another
non-binary descriptor of their choice and can change
the sex on their birth certificate accordingly.

In contrast in NSW and Queensland they are required to
undergo "gender re-assignment surgery," before updating
their birth certificate.

The consequence of such laws is that biological males may
self-identify into women's spaces, services, and sports and
under the anti-Discrimination law can't be treated
differently from biological women.

Men have been able to self-identify into vulnerable women's
only spaces like prisons, domestic violence centres,
hospital wards, changing rooms, bathrooms, and tragically
all have been examples of women being sexually assaulted by
trans-identified males who were given access to these services.

Self-identification laws should never have been passed when
the clear outcome was that they would undermine the rights of
women and girls. However, the bigger problem is the
Sex Discrimination Act.

This was amended in 2013 to remove the biological definition of
"woman" and "man." Without a sex-based definition of woman in
the Act Australian law is no longer able to differentiate between
woman and males who identify as women.

It's a matter of urgency that the Act is amended to restore
protections for the sex based rights of women and girls.

We have the question of how to accommodate transgender
athletes in competitive sport, or even whether they
should be accommodated at all?

This is something else that needs to be debated. We need
to think about the role of the law in protecting the
rights of individuals especially when the rights of some
people appear to conflict with the rights of others.

On the one hand there's transgender athletes who want to
compete in the gender division with which they identify.
On the other hand there are political activists and
atheletes especially biologically female athletes who
believe that allowing trans athletes to compete in women's
divisions is inherently unfair.

Ho do we allow transgender athletes to compete in a
meaningful way?

I remember reading about Cate McGregor admitting that
allowing her to play cricket after she transgendered was a
mistake - because she did have an advantage having gone
through puberty.

In November 2021 the International Olympic Committee changed
its guidelines and now leaves the determination of eligibility
to each individual sport.

Under the new guidelines transgender women are no longer
required to reduce their testosterone levels below specific
bounds to compete.

I have a transgender rellie. Just another person. Maybe we could have some other threads, such as "What are black people like?", "What are communists like?", or "What are Catholics like?" for example.

Hi Fester,

Met lots of black fellas, they're a bit up and and down, some are tall some are short, generally a bit like white fellas. Catholics, they're a bit harder to identify, unless they're wearing a dog collar and nothing else and sneaking up behind you, the rest don't normally carry signs saying "I am a Catholic" so they tend to blend in with the general population. Communists, only ever met one bloke I would say was a true communist, and he was a decent sort of chap, so I'd say Communist are decent sorts of chaps, but it was a limited sample of just one. Although so on here claim I'm a Communist, and I'm a decent sort of chap, so that makes two. Didn't know Joe Stalin personally, but from what I've read, I don't think he was a decent sort of chap. Hope I was helpful.

Nice effort Paul, but I think that Borat is the gold standard for learning about different cultures and lifestyles.

Hi Fester,

Borat, what was it; "She is my sister. She is number-four prostitute in whole of Kazakhstan". I liked the movie, sick as it was, but funny.

Hi Fester,

Go ahead and start your discussions.
Show us what you can do.

I look forward to your contributions.
You seem to have a lot to say.

Dear Paul,

What about Monty Python?

And there's also "Horrible Histories," on TV.

The rise in transgenderism has risen by 300% since it has entered the school curriculum and has been taught to children from twelve to seventeen years old. This distortion of human sexuality largely increased because of accepting same sex marriage. Because it was assumed you could identify how you believed you wanted to be, was also included in the same sex marriage becoming law.

However, I have read endless stories of adults who regret having transitioned. They had been influenced by adults during their teens.

Josephus,

You need to broaden your reading.

There are heaps of stories from the experiences of transgender
people. And yes adults and religions are responsible for much
of their suffering and the scars they carry as adults.

You should watch the Four Corners program on Opus Dei schools
in NSW and not brush it aside as an ABC plot to remove the
NSW Premier.

The British High Court ruled against teen trans-gendering.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/15/uk-transphobia-transgender-court-ruling-puberty-blockers/

It is unscientific and equal to FGM in primitive cultures.

josephus,

The Australian medical association has taken a different
stand - as the case of Georgie Stone illustrates.

It is part of the Marxist agenda warned about in 1942, to destroy social norms and family values.

josephus,

What Marxist agenda?

Are you saying that our governments, and health systems
are Marxist? That caring parents are Marxists? That
transgender people are Marxists?

Are we all Marxists except for you and yours?

That's rather scary.

Perhaps we should all be concerned about you!

http://monthlyreview.org/2014/06/01/marx-on-gender-and-the-family-a-summary/

"Marx’s use of dialectics is an important methodological contribution to feminism and social research in general, seeming to view gender as subject to change and development, rather than as a static concept".

As Darwin is to evolution so Marx is to gender studies.

http://www.historicalmaterialism.org/blog/thoughts-marxism-theorising-sexuality-and-sexual-politics

Josephus,

I think that if we tried to have a better understanding
of exploitation and oppression in our society that would
be a good thing. Your attempt to pit groups of people
against each other is questionable when in fact that have
much in common.

Access to safe, well-funded health care comes to mind. As
does "Our bodies, Our Lives, Our Right to Decide," can
apply equally to the fight for abortion rights as well as
gender affirmation treatment.

I think that Marx would have fought for abortion rights
and would have seen it as a class struggle and he would have
fought for trans-rights as well.

I think that trans people in general show us all
that you can define what it means to be male or
female on your own terms. Being transgender is
not just a medical transition. It's not a neurosis.
There's a gender in your brain and a gender in
your body. For 99% of people those things are in
alignment.

For transgender people they are mismatched. That's
all it is. It's not complicated. It's a mix up. It's
a birth defect, like a cleft palate.

As someone stated: "Nature made a mistake, which I have
corrected!"

Your claim of a genetic malfunction has no scientific reality. If a person born with a penis with fertile sperm is male and a person with a womb and is mensurating is a woman. All other classifications is a distortion of human reality. Many teenagers have thoughts of being the opposite gender, but that is a passing faze as they mature. To have surgical attempts to change the reality is abuse.

josephus,

Trans people show us that there is a gender in your
brain and a gender in your body. For 99% of people these
things are in alignment. For transgender people they are
mismatched. That's all it is. It is not complicated. It's
not a neurosis. Being transgender is not just a medical
transition. It's a mix up. It's a birth defect, like a
cleft palate. And its about discovering who you are, living
your life authentically, and accepting one another.

You obviously have a problem with that. That is your problem
not anyone else's.

Foxy says transgender "It's a birth defect".
Because a male has feminine characteristics does not mean he has a defect and needs hormones and surgery. Or a female is very tomboyish does not mean she has a genetic defect that needs puberty blockers and chest binding.

This is unscientific nonsense, and an effeminate male can be an incredibly good father, and a tomboyish female an exceptionally good mother. They have no need to gender transfer. It is a delusion of the mind to want to transfer.

josephus,

Sex chromosomes usually determine whether you are
female of male. Gender however is internal. It is who
you identify as. Therein lies the difference. But even with
sex there are genetic exceptions as Danish researchers
discovered:

http://novonordisk.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/

My apologies I left out a word. Here's the link again:

http://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/

The problem is hardware and software.
The DNA has set the hardware and someone has prompted a software
corruption by entering data intended for the opposite system.
In many cases, the place that has fed in the wrong files is a school
teacher or web site proponent. Immature minds cannot detect that they
are being fed inappropriate information.

I see Donald Trump has drawn a line in the sand; if he becomes
President again he will ban all medical and surgical modification of
children with penalties for doctors, hospitals and parents who
damage children.

I think this policy alone will ensure he is reelected.
I think the Monte Python skit on this subject said it all.
Many times Monte Python has ripped the veil off nonsense.
The proponents of this nonsense are best put in place by laughter.

Hi Foxy,

Just a catch up, nothing to do with this topic. reading the Annual Report for our charity to December 2022. A worrying aspect has been the massive increase in those seeking assistance, up 50% on the same time in 2021, particularly over the second half of 2022. Where in 2021 we were dealing more with single people, today the number of young families seeking help is alarming. "Debt Stress" is on the increase, with no relief in sight.

p/s Monday of last week was a record for an ordinary day for us, our Xmas stocks are diminishing at an alarming rate. Although we are very busy at Xmas, so are our Givers busy at that time donating, come January and the donations tend to dry up, as they have this year. We'll dig into the cash bank and restock, alone with trips to the charities charities like SecondBite'.

Hi Paul,

People are doing it tough nowadays that's for sure.
I help where I can and donate where I can.
But for people like josephus and Bazz- all we can do
is pray for them - or walk away.

Foxy what sort of a God do you pray to when you believe God made genetic mistakes. Obviously, a confused mind.

josephus,

The following link may help ease your confusion:

http://believeoutloud.com/voices/article/the-lords-prayer-for-transgender-awareness/

Transgender is not based in science; it is based in the mind. So, your god is anything you decide it to be. Your god is Satan standing in opposition to the Creator.

The new cult is focused in body worship, and the human body is god.

Christianity holds that the body is the temple of the spirit that came from God and to God the spirit returns. The body is temporal and every cell in the body changes every 21 years and is made of the natural chemistry of the earth. The spirit is the living done in the body by the spirit to design, create, train, and live right, to love and desire good character and care for others.

Those obsessed with the body are wrongly focused in their worship.

Well Jose'

You attack Foxy, claiming in your words;

"Transgender is not based in science; it is based in the mind. So, your god is anything you decide it to be. Your god is Satan standing in opposition to the Creator."

You postulated that there is a remote Satan and a Creator. Then going on to say; "from God and to God the spirit returns", None of that is based in science. You want to accept science where you believe its relevant to your argument, then dismiss it when you want to make none scientific claims, like the existence of a remote God. What other unseen spiritual or physical supernatural beings do you also believe in.

josephus,

For a self-proclaimed Christian you are displaying very
judgemental and un-Christian qualities. You need to look
to improving yourself first before judging others who have
done you no harm. But by the sound of it - the harm is in your
own mind. And that needs fixing.

We shall all pray for you to stop evading responsibility and
take the hatred that's in your own heart. Satan is living
within you and you're not fighting him. You're spreading his
work around. He must be very pleased with you

Hi Foxy,

Leviticus 18 and 20
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22.
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13.

And further,

Matthew 12:30
“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

The bible is fairly clear on this issue.
I'm not sure you get to pick and choose what's in there.
I don't agree with many things that Christians do.

But if society recognises 'The right to religion'
Then it's surely hypocritical to condemn believers for believing and for following their bible
Nor is it right to attempt to rewrite it in a way that suits the individual.

I'm not even sure these people from 'Believe Out Loud' actually pray to God when they pray.

The Lord’s Prayer For Transgender Awareness:
Our mother and Father, our beloved parent, in whom we move and breathe and have our being,
The hallowing of your name shines forth in the diversity of your children.
http://www.believeoutloud.com/voices/article/the-lords-prayer-for-transgender-awareness/

From what I understand Christians have love for homosexuals as God's creation, but they do not support the things that they do.

Me personally, I think all religions are flawed in some way.
In many examples they all promote harm in some way.

Hi Armchair Critic,

Thank You for such a positive response.

It is appreciated.

Hi AC to follow the Bible literally is fraught with danger, as shown by the following, also from Leviticus.

Leviticus 26:7-8

7 You will hunt down your enemies. You will kill them with your swords.
8 Five of you will chase 100. And 100 of you will chase 10,000. You will kill your enemies with your swords.

Paul, that Leviticus quote is protection of Israel facing enemies. Jesus gave clear teaching on the use of a sword - those that live by the sword will die by the sword - and relationship to your enemy - care for them - give them a cup of water it they are thirsty.

Hi Paul,
Like I said I think all religions are flawed and promote harm in certain circumstances.

Islam, we've all seen them wanting to 'kill the infedels'
- Harm

Christians believed that Jesus would make them immune from Covid, then ran around spreading it to everyone else.
- Harm

Jews, think they have a right to ride on the backs of goyim and rule the world from Jerusalem.
- Harm

Hidus have caste system which is like organised slavery
toilet cleaners arent allowed to be traders or merchants but enrich them.
- harm

Not sure about Buddism, but give me time and I'll probably find something...

I'm more ethically oriented than religiously oriented.
I believe everyone has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't harm others.

As for the bible, I'll take the golden rule:
'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'
Or the non-religious translation:
'Treat others the way you'd like to be treated'.
- As for the rest, well I think all that docrine can lead a person to lose all sense of themselves.

My point was simply that if we accept the 'right to religion' (so long as one isn't committing crimes) then we should accept that people have a right to believe what it actually says.

Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with all these beliefs.

Meanwhile,

Church of England wants to change God to a neutral gender.
http://www.reuters.com/world/uk/church-england-explores-gender-neutral-god-2023-02-08/

Change God to a neutral gender?

What a great idea!

You can't get more inclusive than that.

Dear Critic,

«Hidus have caste system which is like organised slavery
toilet cleaners arent allowed to be traders or merchants but enrich them.
- harm»

Australians have beer-drinking system which causes drunkenness, violence, belly-fat and high rates of diabetes.
- Harm

Why do you think that every local custom in India has to do with the Hindu religion?
Why do you think that every social ill anywhere has to do with the prevailing religion in that region?
Does beer-drinking also originates in the Australian religion?

«As for the bible, I'll take the golden rule:
'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'»

The golden rule was composed by Hillel the Elder, it doesn't appear in the Bible.
Some claim that Hillel was Jesus' teacher - http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Hillel_the_Elder#Hillel_and_Jesus

«My point was simply that if we accept the 'right to religion' (so long as one isn't committing crimes) then...»

You do not need to accept a 'right to religion' - if you do not thwart the freedom of religion in the first place, then you do not need to hand back to people bits and pieces of it as "rights".

«Christians believed that Jesus would make them immune from Covid»

There are idiots who call themselves 'Christians' but believe in superstitions that no Christian authority ever taught.
Anyway, weren't most Christians vaccinated?

«Islam, we've all seen them wanting to 'kill the infedels'»

I haven't, but I am amazed by your extraordinary sense that allows you to see what other people want.

And as there are about 1.8 billion Muslims, it is even more amazing that you were able to see the wants of them all and found not even one who doesn't want to kill. How long does it take you to count to 1.8 billion? If I did nothing else that alone would take me 10 years!

«Jews, think they have a right to ride on the backs of goyim and rule the world from Jerusalem.»

Including our very own David F.?

«Church of England wants to change God to a neutral gender.»

A step in the right direction.

There is a widely held belief that Jesus was homosexual, hanging out with 12 of the like minded. Now its been revealed God himself is transgender. Its all happen' up in heaven...!

Proud Boy Jose'

That Leviticus quote I gave, I distinctly recall you used something of that nature to justify the Proud Boys violence in Washington January 6th. Have you had a change of mind on that since?

Hey Yuyutsu,
Your taking things out of context.
I know you're Hindu, and once followed the Jewish religion as well.

Let's go to a recent article.
India's 'untouchable' women face discrimination even in microloan schemes meant to help them
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-01/untouchable-women-in-india-dalit-discrimination-microloan-scheme/101815520

The job no one wants in India
http://youtu.be/4MK5o9Vhiqk
(and I've seen worse videos in the past as well)

While drinking can be harmful, it's not a God-centric religion with scripture.

Lets be honest here, this was a career for life, and when you have kids, it's their career for life too.
You see how they're not allowed to be traders?
But if they want to buy something, they enrich the class above them.

- Tiered slavery -

Why should anyone be born just for their entire destiny from life until death be for the purpose of cleaning up other peoples shite with their bare hands.
I'm sorry mate, but it's phucking disgusting.
- Please excuse my language -
(And I've never sworn on this level here before, and hope I never have to do so again)
- That's what I think of that.

See if you're born Dalit caste, then it's your life's destiny and purpose to clean shite.
- That's anything but treating others the way you'd like to be treated.

[Cont.]
Futhermore, I'm not saying that everyone who follows a religion does the examples I used.

I know Christians who aren't vaccinated (as well as some that are)
I know some Jewish people who aren't wealthy and don't want to 'ride on the backs of goyim'
I've watched video of Muslims who preach peace and don't want to 'kill all the infidels'.

I'm not necessarily talking about people, but about beliefs associated with religions.
- From what I can see all of them are flawed in their own ways.

I'm sorry if you don't like the criticism, but I have every right to voice my opinion on things, and to stand up for what I think is right.
Ultimately, it's about respect, decency and dignity.

If Jews want Moshiach to come back so they can rule over 70 nations from Israel, like it's everyone else's destiny to be their slaves, then that's a crap worldview.

If Christians want to believe everyone else is a sinner, and use fear of a lake of fire to frighten people into believing but hold themselves in high moral regard when they themselves are often just as much sinners themselves, with a condescending attitude towards others as many do, then that's a crap worldview.

If Islam has political and military doctrine, to make peace when they are weak, and then disregard it when they are strong; and to use women as vessels for birth to outbreed everyone else and impose Islam on everyone then that's a crap worldview too.

When I said 'right to religion' I was talking about our nations laws.

None of these things are about respect, decency or dignity or of treating others the way one would like to be treated.

Hi Paul1405,
"That Leviticus quote I gave, I distinctly recall you used something of that nature to justify the Proud Boys violence in Washington January 6th. Have you had a change of mind on that since?"

I don't remember using anything religious to defend January 6.

I may however have used the US Constitution, 2nd Amendment to defend it, and maybe even Jefferson's quote as well.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

So, as for the US way of thinking, the specific reason why there is a second amendment is for the purpose of removing a tyrannical government, which actually goes back to when the British ruled America in it's early days if I recall correctly.

And so, if the American people feel that their government has become tyrannical and is not respecting the Bill of rights or Constitution, and is acting tyrannical then they have every right to remove it by force.

Thomas Jefferson: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

The ruling political class in America have been acting like Gods unto themselves.
Furthermore, the House of Congress BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE, and if it belongs to them, then what laws were broken?
It's perfectly fine for America to conduct coup d'etats on everyone else,
(that makes them tyrannical in my opinion just as others were towards them when it was written; and that's before all the other amendments in the Constitution which have been stepped on)
Heaven forbid their own people lose faith in government and want them out themselves.

Look at this stupid war in Ukraine.
The US political or military elite have been talking about causing a political crisis in Russia that would lead to a coup and Putin's ousting, but it's as though they forget it was their own sponsored and paid for coup in Ukraine in 2014 that lead to the mess we have today and the 500,000+ dead and wounded.

As for transgenders, I couldn't care less what goes in in their bedrooms, if they want to dress like the opposite sex and cut all their bits off I don't care, but for one I don't have to celebrate it and furthermore I most certainly draw the line when they start messing with the minds of impressionable kids.

As for the religious stuff and Jewish religion, I could go further on that topic...

We could talk about how America cares more about Israel than it's own citizens.
The eye of providence on their money certainly isn't there for nothing.
Novus Ordo Seclorum 'New Order for the Ages' (New World Order)
Jewish money started the Federal Reserve against the original Greenback, money used to kill the Russian royal family after he abdicated, as well as Alexander II before him (I guess they didn't like being locked into the Pale of Settlement in Prussia - but it's ok to treat Palestinians that way today)
Money used to fund Hitler in WWII, Jews got America involved in WWI which cost Germany the war, which lead to Hitler.
Price paid for helping Britain prevail was the Balfour declaration.
Every nation on the planet now funded by debt to their system.
Could talk about Freemasons and their Jewish-oriented affiliation.
33rd degree motto is 'Ordo ab Chao' (Order out of Chaos)
- Which is exactly what we're seeing today.
Could talk about Albert Pike and his predictions of 3 World Wars.
Could talk about Noahide laws, and the laws for Non-Jews
Could talk about the Neoconservatives (people starting all these wars) and their alignment with Israel and Zionism.
- But you know, I'm supposed to keep this stuff to myself or else be accused of being racist.

- It doesn't mean I haven't at some point in my life looked into it.
But hey, since Dutton was screaming 'Dob in a conspiracy theorist' I'd better keep my mouth shut, right?
And since Jews won't speak of it except to rubbish it or accuse others of being anti-simetic, what's the point?

Which video do you want?
Do you want the Rebbe singing 'We want Moshiach'
Or do you want the Unholy Trinity of Rothschild, Frank and Weishaupt?
- Here, may as well have both.

Niggun "We Want Moshiach Now"
http://youtu.be/WnhMntRHqpo
The Unholy Trinity of Frank, Weishaupt, and Rothschild
http://youtu.be/K0tBGK7UKL4

Dear Critic,

Your criticism is well placed, but is not a criticism of the Hindu religion, it is criticism of certain traits in Indian society, terrible traits indeed.

Hindu scriptures do mention the different "varna"s, which poorly translates into English as "castes". However, these scriptures are DESCRIPTIVE, not PRESCRIPTIVE. These scriptures just explain how people are different in nature from each other and thus are best at different occupations - that's social science for you, the scriptures do not preclude people's ability to change and upgrade their nature and situation, nor say that children must be of the same nature as their parents. While it is true that children are statistically more likely to resemble their parents, there is no automatic assumption that they will.

Very sadly, sections of Indian society abuse their scriptures by turning them around to excuse their injustice. The sages of old would describe such immoral behaviour as the sign of an outcast!

Mahatma Gandhi did his best to uproot that abuse. Apparently his success was only partial.

«Futhermore, I'm not saying that everyone who follows a religion does the examples I used.»

Thank you for clarifying!

Hi Yuyutsu,
"Your criticism is well placed, but is not a criticism of the Hindu religion, it is criticism of certain traits in Indian society, terrible traits indeed."

If this is true, then please accept my humble apology.
I don't know a lot about your religion, and I'm sorry if my criticism was said in error.

Further to our earlier discussion many weeks ago, we spoke about whether Jews were responsible for Communism.

All I could come up with so far is this:

"Not every Bolshevik was Jewish, but there wouldn't be Bolshevism without Jews" - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
From 200 Years Together by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
(I haven't read it)

If anyone wishes to criticise me, please understand that I'm all about respect, decency and dignity.
'Everybody has a right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative and detrimental impact (harm) on others.'

Hi AC,

That Leviticus quote I gave,was not directed at you, it was Josephus using biblical text as justification for the Proud Boys attack on Washington January 6th. Now its a different story from the lad, now its the Israelite's, a convenient deflection on his part. Dangerous Christian Fundos take the Bible as being literal, if it says kill your enemies, then killing your enemies is justified.

Dear Critic,

«If this is true, then please accept my humble apology.»

Apology accepted.

«Further to our earlier discussion many weeks ago, we spoke about whether Jews were responsible for Communism.»

I don't recall being involved in a conversation regarding Jews and Communism. Are you sure it was me whom you discussed it with?

«"Not every Bolshevik was Jewish, but there wouldn't be Bolshevism without Jews" - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn»

Speculating on how the world would have looked like without Jews is highly hypothetical. All we know is that we had Bolshevism and that it was a big tragedy, regardless who instigated it.

I can confirm that Bolshevism is not prescribed anywhere in the Bible, nor by any leading Jewish scripture or authority.

Hi Yuyutsu,
Thanks for accepting my apology.
Sometimes I comment on some touchy subjects, but I don't really ever set out to intentionally offend anyone (even though I probably do on occasion).
- unless I'm pushed a little as Foxy has done now and then niggling at me over the topic of Ukraine, and eventually I will push back.
I think she just can't comprehend my position.

"Were Jews responsible for Communism"
It took me a little to find it, it wasn't a full discussion about it but we touched on it briefly.

It was in Paul's discussion 'Putin Talks of Negotiation over Ukraine' at the end of last year.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10013&page=0#342316

I never had a good answer at the time, but I didn't forget that it was discussed.
It was such a long thread about the war in Ukraine and I added so many links and comments to try and convey my point of view.
I felt I didn't do so badly at the time despite everyone else mostly opposing or disagreeing with me.
- But I'm not sure that I did that well either though.

I just don't support the way America goes about it's foreign policy
- With threats, blackmail, regime change and military interventions.
I don't support economic sanctions (as it's collective punishment meant to create civil unrest against a countries leader),
- and I don't support their overthrows (what comes after the above blackmail stage)
Too many innocent people end up paying the ultimate price or suffering needlessly for these Western policies.

It's an 'End justifies the means' attitude, which I associate with terrorism.
Which interestingly seems to date back to Sergey Nechayev in 1869.

"Sergey Gennadiyevich Nechayev was a Russian communist revolutionary and prominent figure of the Russian nihilist movement, known for his single-minded pursuit of revolution by any means necessary, including revolutionary terror."...
"In late spring 1869, Nechayev wrote the Catechism of a Revolutionary, a program for the "merciless destruction" of society and the state. The main principle of the revolutionary catechism—the ends justify the means—became Nechayev's slogan throughout his revolutionary career."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Nechayev#Catechism_of_a_Revolutionary

Yuyutsu,

The following link is worth a read about communism and the
Bible:

http://gotquestions.org/communism-Bible.html

Armchair Critic,

You have made your position concerning the Ukraine crystal clear.
There is nothing to misunderstand. I happen to disagree strongly
with your take and your buying into the propaganda that Putin
is "putting out".

Now back to the topic.

http://bbc.com/news/world-australia-42940411

Lets try to stick to the topic of transgender.

God is the power that created both male and female because they are mortal and need to reproduce. God has no need of gender [reproductive organs] because he is eternal, but because he is the originator of life He has always been known as He. "He" here does not identify gender specific, but you cannot call God "it" because he is the father of life.

Paul, you are a deceiver, I made no such claim to justify Jan 6. Read Galatians in the NT on violence.

josephus,

Please don't preach.

Each of us has their own beliefs.

And transgender is one of them for some people and their
families. Their experiences differ to yours.

'The transgender teenager who helped change Australia'

Funny how this stuff gets headlines, whereas my friend who works as a social care worker for handicapped people and who came over to visit this morning in tears and who's 15yo daughter and friend were gang-raped by 9 Sudanese after having their location tracked via their snapchat account gets little attention.

I guess portraying Sudanese as rapists mite be seen as racist by news outlets...

Thank you supporters of multiculturalism for helping create the conditions of all these immigrants in Australia that lead to a kid I've known since she was 2yo get gang-raped by 9 Sudanese.
And the way the courts are dragging things out for years and constantly rescheduling court appearances and giving the perpetrator bail after the kid cries her eyes out in court reliving the events makes me wonder if they don't want the poor kid to top herself.

Not to mention that all these last minute court postponements are costing my friend work and clients in the area of disability support and are impacting her ability to take care of her daughter and placing a huge amount of stress of their situation.

They would call multiculturalism great and progress.
Youth justice my a$$.

Bleeding heart liberals have themselves created a situation where kids are completely out of control.
- I guess it would be different if it was their kid was gang-raped by Sudanese or a member of the police forces kids.

Case ongoing, little media attention.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/01/more-men-to-be-charged-over-calamvale-brisbane-gang-rape-of-two-teenage-girls

Maybe if the poor kid decided to identify as a man people might pay attention to whats happened to her.
Sometimes things that are going on in this country truly sicken me.

Dear Foxy,

«The following link is worth a read about communism and the
Bible:»

That link referred to the book of Acts, which is in the New Testament, whereas my reply to Armchair Critic referred to Jews, who as you know, recognise only the authority of the Old Testament.

«Lets try to stick to the topic of transgender.»

You may have learnt already that I do not support this whole trend of identifying oneself with one's temporal attributes, such as gender, sexual orientation, race, age, nation, etc., etc., that I believe it to be much healthier that we just be who we are without such attachments.

Nevertheless, this question intrigued me:

Nowadays, society accepts and supports people who wish to identify with (and possibly also modify their body accordingly) a gender other than the physical gender of the body they were born into.

Well and good, so how about also accepting and supporting people who wish to identify themselves as aboriginals, modify their lifestyles accordingly and gain the same legal privileges (and restrictions) as aboriginal people even while their ancestry/genetics is not aboriginal?

Armchair Critic,

Could you give us a link to the Sudanese gang rape that you're
referring to. Thank you.

Yuyutsu,

The link was a general Bible reference about communism
for your information.

As for Aboriginal recognition. The government already has three
set criteria for what they consider as an Aboriginal person.
Look it up on the web.

Dear Foxy,

I asked you for your personal opinion rather than about the current legal situation.

yuyutsu,

If you want to identify yourself as an Aboriginal there's
nothing to prevent you from doing so. However if you want
legal recognition - that's another story. You have to meet
the three criteria.

yuyutsu,

Identifying as an Aboriginal or a Torres Strait Islander is
voluntary and you don't need paperwork to identify as an
Aboriginal person. You can simply go ahead and do it.

However you may be asked to provide confirmation when
applying for Aboriginal specific-jobs, and services, or
programs (eg. grants).

Dear Foxy,

What you described in your last two posts is the existing situation.

I don't personally want to identify as anything, also forget about grants, but lets suppose I, who am not of aboriginal descent, wanted to go out and about completely naked in the outback (including on other people's property with a native title) and live of fishing and hunting with spears and similar aboriginal weapons (not me personally, I am vegetarian!) without getting in trouble with the law - should I be allowed to do this IN YOUR VIEW?

yuyutsu,

I can't take your question seriously because you
wouldn't survive in the outback - dressed as you said
you'd be - naked. You'd be burned to a crisp.

Plus -
You wouldn't be equipped to deal with anything. Unfamiliar
with the conditions and the terrain.

Being naked - someone just may mistake you for a wild animal
You wouldn't survive. So not a good idea.

yuyutsu,

Of course it would help if you coloured yourself dark brown
went into the wilderness full prepared with equipment and
guidance, and advice - and then let us know of your experiences
as to how you went. But you'd have to prepare yourself ahead
of time - by practicing running around naked a bit at a time in
your current neighbourhood.

Whoopee - that should be exciting for you.

Let us know what newspaper coverage you get. So we can all
read about it.

Hi Yuyutsu,

As a white fella you'ed be turned red in the hot Aussie sun, and then be mistaken for an American Indian, possibly of the whopehoho tribe. That would result in Colonel Custer having to hunt you down and shoot you dead, a win, win situation. If you're a vegie, why do you need spears? Spearing big fat watermelons possibly.

Hi Foxy, Yuyutsu in the outback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iktKXIsRUIg

Dear Foxy,

By no means have I claimed that life in the outback without clothes and only primitive weapons is safe, easy or a good idea.

Nevertheless, this is not what I asked you.

My question was whether you would at least accept, if not even support, rather than prosecute, such people who are not of aboriginal descent yet choose to live as traditional aboriginals in these harsh conditions, and have the same legal privileges (and restrictions) as people of aboriginal descent who live the same lifestyle - in the same manner that we accept and support people who were born with male bodies and choose to live as females (possibly also modifying their body accordingly), or vice versa.

Any thoughts?

Hi Foxy,
If you click the link below which is a google search for 'Calamvale Gang Rape' you'll get some more info about the story.
- But many of the articles are paywalled.
You can also click the news tab and get some more info there.
There doesn't seem to be many recent articles, and the case for the majority of the defendants is still ongoing.
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=calamvale+gang+rape

If you follow this link below to facebook it will take you to a nine news story, and you may see that some of the defendants look African, and comments on that page state as such, but you'll also note that in the news story it states that the identity of the defendants has been suppressed (even though many of them are adults)
http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=237443437870806

I'm not sure what the reason for this is, I can only assume that they don't want to publicly state the race of the defendants.

- But if you really wanted to to get first hand info, I'd gave you the phone number of one of the girls in questions mother.
I doubt you'd want to go this far, but the offers there (assuming my friend agrees) and I wouldn't add it to the forum but share it with Graham Young who could give it to you.

Instead of this though, I'll ask my friend if she wants to come to the forum and comment herself about some of the things that have happened.
I can say though that she doesn't know all the exact details herself, only what news and prosecutors have told her as her daughter keeps what happened to herself and doesn't talk to anyone about it, (but is often heard crying alone in her bedroom) and as well as this my friend (the girl in questions mother) is not permitted to go into court with her daughter.
(These are rules from the prosecution - They feel that if family is there that the girl might not feel comfortable in sharing all the details)

[Cont]
I only know one of the girls involved.
It all started when she told her mum she was staying at a friends place, it may be that both the girls told their parents they were staying at each others place, but instead went elsewhere for the night, a bad part of town where they eventually came into contact with the defendants.

yuyutsu,

I posted a reply to you on the wrong discussion.
The one about why people hate Jews - if you care
to have a read. My apologies.

I guess what I was trying to say is basically that
your going to live in the outback - naked and with
only primitive weapons is not a good idea.

The outback is a vast remote area in the centre of
Australia. It is very dry and almost totally
uninhabitable.

The biggest two factors are heat and dehydration.
Surviving without water - you may last for 3 days but
that's only without physical exertion or being exposed to
too much heat in the direct sun.

Not a good idea.

As for gender-affirming surgery?

Choosing to undergo any surgery is a big decision. People
affirm their gender in different ways and that may or may not
include surgery.

You'll need letters of support from a mental health
professional before having gender affirmation surgery, There's
also other criteria that have to be met - listed on the web.
I'm sure that your specialist will inform you of all these.

The ultimate decision will be yours to make.

Good luck. We hope it's the right one for you.
We wish you well.

Armchair Critic,

I'm so sorry for what the girls had to go through.
And there's no excuse for evil acts like those.

I hope the girls and families will get the help
they need and that justice will be served.

Hi Foxy,
I think if you look at it, this particular case has so many issues attached to it.
They were tracked by social media for the purpose of being sexually assaulted, they were kids, who were drugged and they were both raped by a gang of foreigners up to possibly up to 70 times (based on the number of defendants and the amount of rape charges stated for some of them) as well as being threatened with further harm with broken bottles.
Not only that the poor media coverage of the case and the refusal to name the defendants or the fact they were Somalians has to make you wonder if the government and media is scared of being labelled racist for reporting on it.
As well as this, for all the pro-womens groups / anti domestic violence groups / groups who oppose 'rape culture' and all have their snouts in the taxpayer trough I bet NONE of them will turn up outside court with signs and placards to try and bring attention to their own causes.
And who do we have to thank for this as well as all the other youth crime epidemics we have going recently, with kids out of control committing every offense under the sun, to which adults would be locked up for life for?

[Cont.]
I can't help that on some level it's people like yourself, who promote multiculturalism and more immigrants, and are always quick to champion all these woke causes, the same kind of mental attitude that leads social workers to talk about these kids poor upbringings and illicit excuses for their behavior and advocate for lighter sentences, and successfully removed breach of bail laws on these out of control youth, (and waste money putting them up in motels at taxpayers expense) who post their crimes live on social media and boast about them for their own bad-kid reputations and who have no respect for other people or our country, but get off on being bad.

How much do you think these group of foreign kids have cost Australian and QLD taxpayers just to prosecute the case?
- Which means we all have to pay for it one way or another.

While the kid stays confined to her room crying and the justice system lets them back out onto the streets.

Her life is certainly ruined and it will be a miracle if she doesn't kill herself trying to cope with what's happened, certainly now a great candidate for lifelong drug and alcohol issues - meanwhile the defendants will be released when the case is over after time served on remand, and will brag to their mates about their crimes.

I'm not trying to be mean on purpose Foxy,
Just trying to illustrate that there's two sides to all this feelgood woke crap.
Sometimes there's negative consequences.

Armchair Critic,

There's always two sides to everything. But sometimes
we have to look around the edges as well - not just
from one-side or another. Difficult as it may be.
In any case - I hope that things will work out for those
poor girls - and the their families will get the support
required.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

I'd like to Thank everyone who've contributed to this
discussion.

For me it's now run its course.

I look forward to our next discussion.

Dear Foxy,

I have read your reply on the other thread:

«You told us that you wanted to live in the outback without clothes and only primitive weapons»

Not quite - that was only "for example": I am vegetarian and wouldn't personally go about hunting animals.

«There may be laws against wondering around naked in the outback on other people's properties -
the police and property owners may have some concerns. As may park rangers, et cetera.»

Exactly, but aboriginal-born people who live in their traditional lifestyle are in many cases exempt from these laws.

There are still countries where one is not allowed to change their gender, socially and physically.
There are still countries where one is not allowed to change their religion.

In former centuries, this used to be the case in Australia too (and previously in Britain), but no more: in the Australian brave new world we live in, people are legally able to change both their gender (socially and physically) and religion.

Which raised my question here: shouldn't we just as well be legally able to change our race (socially and medically-allowing, physically too), then enjoy the same legal exemptions (and suffer the corresponding restrictions) as those who were born into our new race have?

yuyutsu,

Our laws and legislation are as you know passed by parliament.
And they often vary from state to state - and depending on
the circumstances they may differ. Sweeping generalisations on
any subject are not a wise idea - for me this discussions has
now run its course - your questions regarding laws and
circumstances affecting either our Indigenous People or our
transgender folk - could perhaps best be put to the Attorney
General's Department in Canberra. I'm not a lawyer - and it's
best you consult with someone who is.

Enjoy your day - and see you on another discussion.

Dear Foxy,

One does not need attorney generals to tell what the present law is:

Suppose a person walks out and about naked (in a rural/remote area), lives on other people's property where a native title applies, hunts and fishes with primitive weapons protected species or in places where hunting and fishing is generally forbidden, and is caught, then:

If that person is a "white", non-aboriginal person, then they would be prosecuted regardless of their lifestyle and racial identification, but if they are of aboriginal ancestry and live in the traditional aboriginal way, then they would be left alone.

In Australia, there are no legal hindrances to religious conversion, because religion is not even registered by government (which is ideal).
As for gender, it is presently registered by government (which is less than ideal), but there is a legal pathway for converting from "male" to "female" or from "female" to "male". However, in the matter of race, Australia does officially register whether one is "aboriginal" or "non-aboriginal", yet recognises no legal pathway of conversion from non-aboriginal to aboriginal.

I am asking you time and again whether this state of affairs is good and acceptable or not, whether in your view it should remain so or change - and you seem to actively avoid my question by providing irrelevant responses and now, by attempting to close this discussion.

Is the hierarchy of the Catholic Church all transgender? They're all male, and they all wear skirts! Must be...... Christ and his disciples were all in frocks! Bloody trend setters!

yuyutsu,

I have answered your questions.
I have made it quite clear that there are 3 criteria
that have to be met before you can be legally recognised
by the government as an Aboriginal. Which is fair enough
to protect our First Nations People who have a special
place in our nation as the original people.

Transgender also have laws that apply.

I didn't realize that this was so difficult to understand
for you. Therefore I recommended a legal department for you
to consult who you perhaps may understand.

In any case as I have nothing further to add - yes I am
trying to leave this discussion.

Dear Foxy,

«I have made it quite clear that there are 3 criteria»

This describes the present - it says nothing about what you like to see in future.

«to protect our First Nations People»

That term is a slanderous insult to aboriginal people: why should anyone attribute these innocent people with the white-man's vices (i.e. with nationalism)?

«In any case as I have nothing further to add - yes I am trying to leave this discussion.»

Because you feel pressed to answer an inconvenient question:

Why do you consider it OK to legally allow, recognise and support people's voluntary change of gender, but not of race?

The Church of England now wants to fiddle with the gender of God! God is non-binary squwarks that idiot, the Archbishop of Canterbury. No more 'Our Father which art in heaven' for him.

No wonder congregations are fleeing the bricks and mortar churches, with nitwits like Welby at the helm.

yuyutsu,

You initially asked questions about changing
one's race to become an Aboriginal. I answered
you. That to be legally recognised as an Aboriginal
you have to meet the criteria set by the government.
Especially to qualify for Aboriginal programs and
services (including grants).

Most people racially - are usually a mix of different
ancestries - and they often change their race on the census.
From - white, black, Asian, Hispanic, Indian, Slavic, and so on.
Now go away and leave me alone. I'm trying to be as polite as
I possibly can with you - but you seriously are becoming
a pest. Take the hint and go away. Or try to work out the answers
for yourself - with intelligence.

It's not something you usually need permission to do.

"My mummy is German and my daddy is Vietnamese , so which
part of me are which?"

By all means identify however you like. Except for Aboriginal of course

yuyutsu,

If you really want to become an "Aboriginal" - you can -
of your ancestry from which your ancestors
came. You may just meet their criteria and qualify.
Although I suspect that you too are a mix.

Yuyutsu, if you have Indian ancestry, it might show up as aboriginal having similar DNA. Test and see.

My question still hangs up in the air, in case anyone else likes to take it, but I wouldn't like to have to hold myself responsible should Foxy incurs a heart attack from my questioning here, hence I bow out.

"Which raised my question here: shouldn't we just as well be legally able to change our race (socially and medically-allowing, physically too), then enjoy the same legal exemptions (and suffer the corresponding restrictions) as those who were born into our new race have?"

I think you have to be able to prove aboriginal descent.
I have a small amount of indigenous in me and I can prove it through records of ancestry.
Also I have a book.
'Gungarlook - The Story of the Aboriginal Riley Family of the Burragorang Valley'
- by Ivy Brookman and Jim Smith, and my Grandmothers name is in it.

Dear Critic,

«I think you have to be able to prove aboriginal descent.»

Even while I disagree, I can understand your view, which at least is consistent because you earlier said:

«If you want my opinion, on face value probably a further exaggeration of a mental illness.»

indicating that you believe that nor should one be able to change their gender at will.

I would be interested in hearing from others (if any) who believe that one transition is OK but the other is not.

Hi Yuyutsu,

I think a person can identify as whatever they want.
They can identify as a hairy nose wombat if they want to.
But identifying as a hairy nosed wombat and actually being a hairy nosed wombat are two different things.
You can't change biology... or species.

Given todays crazy world it almost seems unfair that you can claim to be a member of a different sex but not also claim to be a person of a different race.

What do I know.
Plenty of people say they are Australians yet have only been here 10 minutes.
- Or are clearly Chinese or African etc.

If you want to go running around the bush in the nude hunting for witchety grubs it doesn't bother me.
If it's not harming anyone who cares right?

Alblow has decided to be the wokest PM ever by marching in the Mardi Grass parade.

The question is whether the LGBT community will be outnumbered by Left whinge virtue signallers.

Shadow,

Do you have a number for how many of the lads will be on the sidelines chanting; "kill the faggots"! Dud Dutton can't make it he's still down at the Big House with his head in the box giving a last hurrah to Archy Pell.

Paul,

Only the greens would shout stuff like that are you one of them?

Airbus Albo will do anything for a photo op. He will go to the opening of an envelope to avoid having actually run the country.

shadowminister,

Every politician loves photo opps. Some more than others.
But some are still capable of running the country and
achieving quite a bit in the short time they've been in
power - whilst the best some others could do - is
promote themselves to ministries and take family holidays
during bush-fire seasons. Which goes to show who voters trust
more - who's
currently in power and who's been kicked out by voters.

Just a few thoughts:

"Gender is our internal sense of self, whether that be
man, woman, neither or both. Most people have an idea
about their gender at two to three years old - this
may align with the sex assigned to them at birth".

"Unlike gender, race presents as categorised (often
physical) traits that are socially constructed and
understood".

"You can't inherit your gender. This is internal and
something individual to you. But you do inherit the
social construct of race. There is also much more
to one's racial identity than physical appearance -
it's also about culture, community, connection and even
trauma".

"While multicultural communities and LGBTQI experiences
of discrimination are sometimes compared it is
important to understand these experiences are different
and complex".

"This is particularly the case for example in considering
trans people of colour and their experiences of both racism
and transphobia".

"People who face discrimination based on their race or
cultural background can usually go home to members of the
family who understand them. This is often NOT the case for
trans and gender diverse people".

"Race and gender have very different histories, understandings,
experiences and implications in the face of discrimination.
The very idea of being able to transition to a different race
discredits trans and gender diverse people's experience of
gender affirmation. It also undermines the importance of
cultural connections for many communities".

There's more at the following link:

http://www.theconversation.com/no-you-cant-identify-as-transracial-but-you-can-affirm-your-gender-163729

cont'd ...

"It is important for us to acknowledge that talking about
"transracial" identities as something that you can be for
or against only further marginalises and harms people of
colour and trans and gender diverse people".

"This marginalisation is compounded for trans people of
colour".

"Instead of the pursuit of followers we need to prioritise
amplifying the experiences of diverse people in ways that
not only focus on discrimination and abuse but also
celebrate people being their authentic selves".

"Every politician loves photo opps"....That's right Foxy, take one look at that sacked Liberal 'Up Skirter' Laming, one of SM's folk heroes. He had a phone full of photo opps, mostly the backsides of young girls, Laming was a very opportunistic photographer.

"Most people have an idea about their gender at two to three years old.."
- Like when you realise you have to either stand up or sit down to pee?

As for my comments on Chinese and African being Australian, I suppose I was being a bit harsh.
I guess one should recognise there's a difference between race and nationality.

My paternal family originally came from Scotland, but were here for many generations before I was born.
I guess growing up I just saw myself as being a 'White Australian' or even simply just 'Australian' and never really saw myself as having a 'European' racial descent.
I didn't learn about my grandmother being part indigenous till many years later, my Dad's mum died in a car accident when he was just 12, and even then he didn't know his mum well, she had left my grandfather and moved back to Sydney when he was much younger.

Considering that Albozo has utterly failed to meet any of his promises and was on a junket around Europe during the floods, he has succeeded in making Morrison look a lot better.

His 3hr fly in visit to Alice Springs was a master example of token caring.

Hi shadowminister,
"His 3hr fly in visit to Alice Springs was a master example of token caring."
Yes, but he's got plenty of time for parties with the Chinese or a gay parade.
Appartently youth crime doesn't rate as being important enough.
Guess wearing his pink tie and all, we know where his priorities lie.
Big on voice, short on action old Airbus Albo, the sandwich crust removing wuss.

Like a male dog that squats instead of cocking it's leg,
Albo probably is the type of man who actually does sit down to pee.
- What strong leaders we have today.

Next he'll be advocating for the men who claim to have periods.

Armchair Critic,

The following is worth a read:

http://www.healthline.com/health/do-men-have-periods

You're Welcome!

Dear Critic,

«I think a person can identify as whatever they want.»

Yes, anyone can and should not be stopped by others, but from a spiritual point of view, identifying with any finite temporal object or quality is a very bad idea, gender and race being no exception.

Best just be what you are - you are that anyway, no need to falsely "identify" yourself with that which is not identical to you!

«Given todays crazy world it almost seems unfair that you can claim to be a member of a different sex but not also claim to be a person of a different race.»

It not only seems unfair - it is.
You should not have to claim anything, but the problem is that government keeps "identifying" and labeling you whether you like it or not, and these labels can have serious untoward consequences.

'religion', at least in Australia, is already mostly out of the legislative texts, thank God for that, but so should also 'gender' and 'race' (and associated words) - one day they will be out completely and one would only wonder in amazement how come they were ever there to begin with. 'Age' should follow suit, but that's a longer term project...