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The Forum > Article Comments > Reparation day > Comments

Reparation day : Comments

By Kellie Tranter, published 16/12/2009

Copenhagen: Western countries must realise that you cannot negotiate survival.

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Nice plea, but I think you better get used to more pain ahead for poor nations.

Sure, there has long been a divide between rich and poor nations, or between western and others. But there will also be a split between poorer nations as evident by China and India also wanting not to be tied to legal pollution targets. Do they really care about even poor nations?. Yes, but China and India have joined forces to argue that they should not have to do anything while their economies grow faster and faster as everyone's expense.

Keep dreaming if you think westerners are going to accept such rubbish after years of promoting international trade, which has allowed China and India to improve its gross wealth and the lifestyles of its elites and privileged minorities.

Sure, the environment will be the ultimate test of humanity's ability to cooperate, but Western nations are unlikeley to give in and make dramatic concessions which will hasten their decline. Environmental solutions will probably reflect their desire to play the leadership role, albeit that proposed solutions (ETS or carbon tax) will suit their interests most.

It is great to be hopeful, but perhaps unfortunately, I have moved on from my optimistic undergraduate days to be a bit more pessimistic (or realistic) about possible solutions.

Neverthless, we must always dream, hope and argue our case.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 9:33:32 AM
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Deary me Kellie, sounds like you are on a severe Western guilt trip,
with that article.

I note that Nigeria and Sudan have been making some of the most
noise in Copenhagen, both nations with multi billion Dollar oil
incomes. Sadly that money seemingly never gets to the poor who
really need it, but is siphoned off by the elites, for their
personal benefit, or in Sudan's case, to buy weapons.

The last thing that the West should do is hand big chunks of money
to the third world.

Instead, what makes sense is to have specific programmes, where
money is accounted for and the results can be seen. Greatly
improved family planning programmes would be a great place to
start, for they are still popping them out like rabbits in parts
of the third world.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 11:48:55 AM
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“Having been on the receiving end of Western sneakiness and greed for so long…”

That’s not a fair comment. Developing countries – which don’t seem to be doing any real ‘developing’ – would have fizzled out a long time ago if it were not for foreign aid from the West. And our foolish Prime Minister was all set to move much more of our wealth to these countries (with no guarantee that it would be used properly) until his mad scheme was knocked in the head by the Senate. He still intends to try pushing it though again next year.

And, why should the World Bank not provide loans (which might never be repaid anyway) instead of free grants to counties with poor economic records, with corrupt leaders adding to the risk?

Any sympathy with the ludicrous claims and demands of African countries and others is misguided
Posted by Leigh, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 12:59:12 PM
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If what you are saying is true then our Politicians belong in the same League as Bankers ; The Farce Freaks .
Posted by ShazBaz001, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 3:17:27 PM
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Yes always refreshing to be reminded by a self hating bleeding heart, how evil us successful westerners are evil and how bad it is for third world despots who are down to their last 5 billion. Hell they may have to stop building palaces.

Kellie seems to be interested in womens rights, perhaps she could ask the Sudanese how their going with Womens rights in Darfur.
Posted by Kenny, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 3:48:00 PM
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One country's poverty is not caused by another country's riches. Its actually the poor countries where greed and corruption are rife more often than the rich which is, in part, why they cannot progress. Check the World Corruption Index and see where the African nations appear.

Yet Kellie wants to hand over money to leaders of such countries without any restrictions. Poor countries see Copenhagen and AGW as an opportunity to obtain a handout from the West, money which will inevitably disappear into a black hole of corruption and sometimes violence.

Just ask Bob Geldof whose Live Aid money went to NGOs in Ethiopia, some of which were under the influence or control of the Derg military junta which used the money to fund its enforced resettlement programmes where between 50,000 and 100,000 people were killed.
Posted by Atman, Wednesday, 16 December 2009 7:57:17 PM
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I have to agree with Yabby, Leigh and Atman here: Corrupt regimes do not benefit from aid. It often makes it worse for the actual poor as it props up the powerful who work against the weak and poor.
Certain cultures have grown rich because they work better. Rewarding the ineffective cultures with cargo is silly.
Free education can be provided, all else must be earned for a nation to be sustainable. What is a "nation" if it is totally dependent on others and merely used as vote in international politics? Do we really want puppet states to get funding? Depends on who's puppet I guess!
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 17 December 2009 11:58:37 AM
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I really hope this "liberal" guilt trip propaganda is not felt by a majority of Australians. You have a wonderful country, and a vibrant, creative and pioneering people. Don't throw that away by wallowing in guilt about supposedly "not giving enough" of your money to corrupt oligarchies and dictatorships. We have enough of "liberal" guilt here in North America. Australians do not need to add to it. Much of the "Third World" is rich in natural resources. Yet, much of it has remained poor . . . even after independence from colonial rule . . . precisely BECAUSE of their corruption and backward cultural attitudes. The Left routinely places EXCLUSIVE blame for such poverty on western "capitalist" corporations . . . and western military intervention. Yet, it has often been "Socialist" Third World regimes themselves which have INVITED western companies in . . . because those regimes did not originally have the competence and technical expertise to run an ice-cream truck . . . let alone an entire economy. Then, whether it was a wise decision or not, western military intervention has frequently been triggered by the barbaric behavior of those regimes themselves. That is not to excuse whatever opportunism western governments, especially the United States, have demonstrated in their own foreign policy. However, if it had not been for western aid, western-built schools, western-created medicine and western-created technology, many of these dysfunctional Third World excuses for "nations" would still be living in a Medieval-Era world of petty tribal wars, total illiteracy, and mindless superstition. Some of them still do . . . even WITH massive amounts of western money and technology thrown at them. Surely I cannot be the only one who thinks it strange that numerous delegates at the Copenhagen Conference, who represented authoritarian and dictatorial regimes, were complaining about "not enough democracy" in the Conference's processes. These regimes, and others, have demanded 100 Billion Dollars a year from developed countries for protection against the alleged consequences of "man-made" global warming. What possible guarantee do we have that they will actually use such funds FOR that purpose?
Posted by sonofeire, Monday, 21 December 2009 7:20:57 PM
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Ah, for the good old days when women were engaged in charitable activities like knitting jumpers for the poor.
Nowadays they become highly paid charitable activists who demand that the taxes sequestered from their fellow countrymen be given to whomsoever they see fit for whatever reason you may not ask.
Any conditions on any such handouts, such as requiring specific details as to what purpose the funds will be put, are an affront to the dignity of the recipients and proof positive of the sneakiness and greed of the exploiter.
Imagine asking someone to what purpose they intend putting the jumper you've just knit for them out of the kindness of your heart!
Welcome to the whacko world of crypto-socialist, career reparations brokers.
Hey, but if it assuages their own personal guilt for being so rich and not giving as much to charity as they know in their hearts they could afford.
Imagine not having to personally give but being richly rewarded for organising the collective giving by everyone else!
And then calling that your personal giving!
All the sacrifices you made just to help the wretched of the earth in their never-ending struggle against the rapacious and malevolent West.
Step aside Mother Teresa.
Posted by HermanYutic, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 8:54:39 AM
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