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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia border policy; tribal or human > Comments

Australia border policy; tribal or human : Comments

By Lyndon Storey, published 17/12/2009

We need to start to move beyond the tribalism of nation states in which we currently live.

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We have NATION STATES for a VERY GOOD reason: so different cultures . . . with their own linguistic, historical and cultural traditions . . . can have a voice about their own self-determination and destiny, instead of being dictated to by others who have no understanding or appreciation for their beliefs, their history, their language or their culture.
Yes, of course, many nations states were created through past colonialism. We all know that. We all know that, in the process of colonialism, injustices were committed against indigenous peoples. There is not a single nation state on the face of the Earth that has not, at some point in its history, committed injustices against someone. But, the salient point is that MOST past colonial powers have EVOLVED their own democratic traditions . . . including the admission of indigenous peoples into those democratic traditions. It is true that people from different cultures and language traditions CAN learn to share a belief in common Constitutional and democratic principles. If that happens, so much the better. However, there is no guarantee that it will happen as a result of open borders. Australia belongs to those who share the democratic values of Australia, and who are willing to give their political loyalty TO those values. I say that as an American who loves Australia and Australians. Any democratic nation which either gives up, or loses, control over its own borders, eventually loses control over its own destiny and democratic way of life.
Posted by sonofeire, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 7:55:02 AM
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Nation states ONLY have historical reasons.

We have cultural diversity also within nation states even within cities - the answer to this is the principle of subsidiarity.

Looking at our political system there are at least two possible perspectives:
the empirical/historical (from stone age tribes, to villages, to nation states, to transnational unions) and the normative perspective (the idea of the state born from game theory (17th century - Thomas Hobbes)).

The problem with our current political system is that it does not serve as a solution for the "game" any more: we live in a society, which is organized in little nation states and dominated by the globalized economy. This causes great market failure, the destruction of non-renuable natural resources, etc.

Both the historical and the normative perspective indicate a shift towards a global democracy (human union) soon.

Please read books on the topic these comments donīt leave enough room for explanations.
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http://www.vimeo.com/4043483
Posted by fredbrandi, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 10:38:33 AM
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Why would anyone in their right mind . . . that is, anyone who believes in INDIVIDUAL liberty and personal sovereignty over their OWN life and their OWN honestly-obtained resources . . . want to give more DIRECT democracy (power to form a MAJORITARIAN dictatorship) to irresponsible and vindictive mobs whose guiding principle is ONLY majority rule . . . THEIR majority rule . . . without any Constitutional restraints on the whims or impulses of the majority, and without ANY regard for the freedoms and rights of minorities or individuals who may disagree with the majority?
In the Muslim world, there have been several radical Islamic parties who have sometimes won elections. However, their concept of "democracy" . . . if THEY win . . . has generally been: one person, one vote, for ONE time. Then, if THEY win, they have frequently acted as if they have a "mandate" to impose an Islamic theocracy and cancel any future multi-party elections. Unless the impulses of majorities are held in check by an independent judiciary with the authority to enforce strict Constitutional protections for minority and individual rights, more "democracy" is a recipe for oppression by the majority. Does anyone in their right mind really believe that open borders is going to guarantee a society of liberty?
Posted by sonofeire, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 12:16:20 PM
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I had to wait in line and have my credentials tested before I came to Australia. I see no worth while reason for Australia to now allow any flotsam and jetsam, waif and stray or those who carry a disease, either medical, social or political, to being allowed free entry now.

This is just another spoof attempt by the “internationalists” to impose their illicit agenda of porous borders upon Australia, simply to facilitate the entryism and terrorism which such perverted minds feel is their entitlement to inflict upon a successful nation-state.

Shadow Minister "Twit"

succinct.. although you are too generous SM
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 12:36:00 PM
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In my opinion we do need a world constitution.

What is better than a constitutional democracy?

Giving up sovereignity is what the idea of a state is about: but we get more than we give!

Global democracy is not an illusion it is a subject that is beeing researched by the academice world for a long time.

Without the cold war we would maybe already be living in a global democracy.
Also see Einstein...and many many many more.

I donīt feel I can convice you, but I ask you to think about it.
Thx
FB
Posted by fredbrandi, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 12:37:45 PM
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fredbrandi states:

"Without the cold war we would maybe already be living in a global democracy."

How is the Cold War responsible for the fact that we do not live in a global democracy? Nobody can force Democracy on cultures that are not ready for the concept, or whose members do not possess the necessary mindset.

Democracy is a concept peculiar to cultures where general education, individualistic thinking and respect for differing opinions are the accepted standards. Cold War or not, the tribal societies of the Middle East and Africa will be a long time in developing the proper mindset for democracy, if ever...
Posted by warcat, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 3:55:09 PM
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