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The Forum > Article Comments > Why is violence and bigotry in Australia so impossible to curtail? > Comments

Why is violence and bigotry in Australia so impossible to curtail? : Comments

By Chris James, published 14/12/2009

Where do Australians get their crass racial attitudes and their legitimisation of violence towards people of difference?

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I have been searching for years for the reason behind Australia's failure to support its disabled citizens properly. While other more civil societies see their disabled as a test of their humanity, we see them as a burden and a drain on the economy. This article suggests a possible explanation. Perhaps our convict past and our violent beginnings have made us a less caring people. The philosophy of "she'll be right, mate" pervades, even when things are not right. However, moves are being made to address the problem. Two significant apologies in recent times and a proposal for a National Disability Insurance Scheme are first steps towards towards making us a more equitable and compassionate society.
Posted by estelles, Monday, 14 December 2009 12:35:53 PM
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But this is not a uniquely characteristic of Australia. It occurs in most, but not all, places all over the world.
Posted by Ho Hum, Monday, 14 December 2009 2:18:10 PM
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Chris,
I agree with the thrust of your opinion piece, and have often seen voiced similar views voiced on the chat side of this web site. Not surprisingly, the individuals have branded as everything from a left wing winger to a pontificator.

I do have some questions the basis of your assumptions.
- are the rising crimes stats , in part, a function to more people;
- greater reporting,
- closer proximity of differing peoples/cultures.
- and plain ordinary fear of losing their psychological(safety net against change) identity.
- other psychological factors.

This could open up the 'possible' explanations, significantly.
I think, that in general it is accepted that up to 40% of our behaviour potential is genetic. Therefore, nurture takes the dominant influence in such antisocial insensitivities/down right nastiness. That doesn't mean that people aren't responsible, in most cases, for their actions. It does however, makes conclusions like in your article less compelling.

Notwithstanding, we all should try harder to resist our shortcoming, rather than wallow in them, as if they are somehow part of our culture and therefore "our?" identity.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 14 December 2009 2:56:33 PM
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Another one convinced that Australians have a monopoly on racism. She needs to travel more, and read more to find that most of the violence against Indians students was perpetrated by non-whites who are probably immigrants themselves.

All the woman is doing is hardening people’s attitudes and, if they are at all racist, they will become more so.

Then, she quickly switches to disabilities: like most do-gooders, and certainly psychotherapists, she has no sense of humour. The “little gem” she comes up with is funny, and it’s hard to see how it would constitute discrimination against patients in a mental institution: they would have far worse things to worry about, even if they hd ever heard the joke.

“Who has the right to judge?” James asks. Well, in this matter anyway, not her! People will think and do whatever they are comfortable with and ignore what makes her uncomfortable. Chris James is responsible for what she alone thinks. It is not her place to judge what is right or wrong for other people.

“One of the most common problems presented to researchers and therapists like myself, are the effects of societal violence and bigotry” James claims. How does she know this? Because her patients have told her. The very fact that people are mentally ill surely means what they say has to be taken with a grain of salt.

And, of course, we Australians are violent because our original settlers were violent and committed genocide. What rubbish! Convicts, bush-rangers, women transported to Australia; these things have something to do with racism and discrimination against the mentally ill. More rubbish!
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 14 December 2009 3:13:12 PM
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James also tries to convince us that, because of things that happened over 200 years ago, “…we still objectify and abuse people who present as different.” That’s why people who are different are trying to get to Australia by hook or by crook, illegally or legally, apparently. As for the mentally ill, most of us have never known any of them and, if we do crack the odd joke about them, they never know about it.

As for the REPORTEDLY bullied blind child (the general public, and James, possibly, heard only one side of that) I felt immediately sorry for the kid, even without getting the full story, as most Australians would. But it was not a case that James should be using to illustrate and bolster her point of view without further details.

This tale of doom and gloom ends with school bullying. There has always been school bullying. We’ve all been bullied, and we’ve all bullied. It used to be handled by school teachers and headmasters and parents or the kids themselves before the Left-wing, wimpy bureaucrats took control of the education departments.

As for “our convict past”, as one poster had to drag up, only 3% of Australians have any convict ancestry at all, irrespective of how many people were transported here for trivial ‘offences’. And, in my part of the country (SA) there were no convicts here originally. We were all free-settlers. Perhaps Chris James might like to take up the issue of ignorant foreigners (and some ignorant Australians) making snide remarks about Australia’s ‘convict past’ if she is so thin-skinned about what people do and say.
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 14 December 2009 3:14:31 PM
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One could argue that our convict history has contributed to Australia being a far more egalitarian society than many nations, including other developed Western democracies like the US and Britain.

It is because Australia does not have a history of extreme racism that skits like that on Hey Hey are not seen as racist by a large part of the population, in the same way that an Irish joke is not seen as a blot or an indictment on the Irish.

Racism does exist in all countries and in today's Australia a minority of racists do not make a racist country despite the recent media attention given to violence towards Indian students. Violence as it appears, to have been carried out by other minority ethnic groups for the main part.

There is certainly discrimination towards how the disabled are left to fend largely for themselves and discrimination towards some minorities, probably most noticeably towards Muslims.

But in general Australia compares very well to other countries, that does not mean of course we should not aspire to do better.

Dare I suggest that much of our attitudes today, particularly in regard to bullying in schools, stems from the decrease in the importance of manners and the fact that many kids are being dragged up or shoved away in child care institutions and then becoming latch key kids ever-after. (Partly due to our economic situation requiring, for many, the need for both partners to work to be able to afford entry into the housing market and a growing emphasis on consumerism.)

There are so many conritubting factors interwoven into the issues the author raises that cannot possibly be dealt with in isolation, while all the other elephants in the room are being ignored.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 14 December 2009 4:43:19 PM
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"Why is violence and bigotry in Australia so impossible to curtail?"

One reason may be that so many want to make the issue about white men rather than about attitudes which contribute to violence and bigotry across a range of groups. Chris seems to be trying to do that.

As others have pointed out there is some reason to believe that much of the violence against Indian students has been carried out by members of other ethnic groups yet Chris uses it to get attention without that caveat.

I can see why the skit bothered some but I fail that the performers were clearly in the wrong when compared to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vtOt5mNEZE which was apparently acceptable.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Monday, 14 December 2009 6:40:39 PM
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"Where do Australians get their crass racial attitudes and their legitimisation of violence towards people of difference?"

Stereotyping right here, perhaps you can answer why!
Posted by TheMissus, Monday, 14 December 2009 7:54:59 PM
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Is Chris James just another stupid white (racism? OMG should I maybe say pale complexioned?) woman (sexism? gasp - political incorrectness. I mean 'person' ) who needs to get a grip?

Puleez - save the BS for the vege garden.

Violence and bigotry is inbuilt into the human condition. It is CONTROL of these baser instincts through social conditioning that needs major overhauling.

Violence is as often instigated by those who are 'different' as those who are 'typical' Australian (whatever that is but assume Chris James means caucasian). Often violence and other crime against members of ethnic or minority groups is perpetrated by their own people. Quite often we see clashes between minority groups. Why? Could it be they have come from societies more violence oriented and bigoted than Australia?

I suggest that much of the intolerence and bigotry Chris writes about has been IMPORTED in the past 2 decades.

Regards schoolyard bullying and drunken louts engaging in anti-social activities - it's a case of reaping what has been sown. It's always been around, just seems so much more of it. What's worse, it's not being effectively curbed. We've made it almost a crime for parents to effectively discipline their kids (because of people like Chris James?)and taken authority away from Schools and Police.

Our young people have been made well aware of their rights but much less emphasis has been placed on responsibility. Match that with a watered down judicial system that fails to deter criminal behaviour and is it any surprise that a growing section of the community feels they can do what they please and the rest be damned? The worst of the ME generation ...

I don't care what the do-gooders say - the threat of 'violence' eg a spanking if you disobeyed your parents, the cane if you misbehaved at school or local copper giving a young lout a clip under the ear for a misdemeanour with more to come if caught again - kept most of us "Boomers" in line. Let's have a revival please. Sooner rather than later ....
Posted by divine_msn, Monday, 14 December 2009 8:53:39 PM
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"violence in Australian society is inherent in our culture beginning with settlement and the genocide of the first Australians"

Hello! We have the lowest level of violence in any society, ever. Modern western democracies are the most passive, peacefull societies ever.

You forget that there were three waves of Aboriginal invasions... the first wave of migration into an empty continent created a massive wave of extinctions of the big, dumb animals who lived here before humans, and due to the introduction of dingos and frequent bushfires which denuded the bush and created grasslands (better for hunting). Read the book by Australian of the Year, Tim Flannery's "The Future Eaters" if you don't know this.

This the most primative aboriginal group were in-turn wiped out by the second wave, and again by a third wave of aboriginals. So when westerners arrived the original Australians were extinct from the mainland and only survived in Tasmania (the Tasmanian Aboriginies). the southern Aboriginies (the Murumbidgee Aboriginies) only survived, spread across southern Australia, while the newest invaders had conquered across the north.

This is why place names of aboriginal origin in NSW and victoria sound totally different to Queensland... Compare Wooloomooloo and Wahlarahra, Warahonga, Wagga Wagga, Wadonga (all Murrinbidgee Aboriginal words) to Toowoomba and Maroochydore.
Posted by partTimeParent, Monday, 14 December 2009 10:43:25 PM
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'This in turn impacts on the loss of productivity and the nation’s economy. '

I love it how nothing is a legitimate problem unless it affects 'the economy'.

'We might liken this to the bad behaviour of footballers that can end in glassing a girlfriend,'

Or the bad behaviour of the girlfriend as has been found to be the truth of the case.

The links to the Herald Sun are 'apposite';-) to the whole article.

Like Ho Hum, I'm still waiting for the evidence this is a uniquely Australian problem, or a larger problem in Australia than in most countries.

'More than half of Australia’s women will face some form of sexual or physical violence in their lifetime'
How many men will? Why is gender relevant? How does this compare to other countries? What is uniquely Australian about this violence? Where is the proof of the link between jokes and violence?

Sorry the whole article is flaky man. What is she trying to even say and what has she proved? It's nothing more than a rant.

Actually, I would think 100% of men would 'at some stage in their lifetime' experience violence. I cant imagine someone in 80 years not ever facing any violence in their life. At all. I cant believe there would be any women not experiencing any violence at all either. Where do these people live and how do they manage to avoid any form of violence for their whole life? Not even birthday punches? Not ever smacked as a child? Not 'face' violence. Maybe it even means not even see any violence. Now that's quite incredible! To live your whole life and not see any violence.

Leigh,

'Perhaps Chris James might like to take up the issue of ignorant foreigners (and some ignorant Australians) making snide remarks about Australia’s ‘convict past’ if she is so thin-skinned about what people do and say.'

Yes indeed, perhaps she doesn't understand the 'Power of the Narrative'.
Posted by Houellebecq, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 8:46:48 AM
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I believe that one facet of this problem lies with kinds of entertainment offered to youn people today. In times gone by,we could come together as families and spend evenings watching and enjoying television.Our television now presents us with one violent program after another.Interestingly, we are seldom shown the murderer paying for the crime, just the heroic detective who solves the crime and we all live happily ever after. A quick look at "What's on at the Movies"shows the same trend. As a frequent movie goer, I continue to be amazed at the number of violent movies which have become "entertainment" for our young folk.
Posted by poddy, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 11:31:31 AM
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Gentlemen,

Of course there are race/religious riots 'par extraordinaire' in India that make our racism look trivial, as do those elsewhere in conflicted countries.

Regardless, of the comparative levels, our 'low' level racism (more background rather than extreme) and explaining it is the subject of the article.

I can't see any reference of comparative judgement in this article.
It is simply 'here is a problem', this is why I think it exists.

Your reasonable options are to discuss the failings of the article in that context. Beyond that, your protestation come across as unnecessary and irrelevant knee jerk paranoia.

That a bit like saying the 'bodies in the barrels' killers are more acceptable than Martin Bryant simply because he killed more people, Or because the barrel killers only killed social security recipients
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 3:24:15 PM
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I do not agree. "Where do Australians get their crass racial attitudes " is bigotry personified.

Examinator, according to you it cannot be racism when one holds an. Australian passport from another thread. You confuse.

I agree racism exists but we need justice for victims of it but not make victims out of whole segment based on race, that is racism and the silly victim industry some seem to to salivate over which is truly digusting.
Posted by TheMissus, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 5:23:29 PM
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Racially crass attitudes in Australia? hmmm, if that's what we have and you believe that, then more Australians should travel overseas and see and hear what happens in other countries.

The English have a huge problem with the numbers of immigrants from the middle east, India and Britich dependancies. Most of the European countries; France, Holland Sweden, etc, have are racially predjudiced against middle eastern immigrants. The French hate everyone, they don't pick or choose, if you are not French, you are not there. Nice people though once you get to know them.

These countries are not racially crass? They are more than that and in some instances they really have a right to be.

The the Americans still have to this day, racially crass attitudes to African Americans, the Latinos and the middle eastern immigrants to their over stressed country and they have a black president! They are still racially crass even to each other, those born in the South as opposed to thise born in the North...

India has a class system that no modern country in this world would tolerate.

As for China and Japan they don't even take immigrants from other nationalities.

And we are crass?
Posted by RaeBee, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 6:41:23 PM
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