Welcome to the beginning of the 'new line' on global hysteria-mongering. Having failed with AGW and failed with CO2-induced 'climate change', the new line will be: "It doesn't matter how it's happening, we have to DO something." Of course, the thing we have to do will be exactly the same: hand over large amounts of power and money to our masters so that they can make benevolent decisions on our behalf.

There are lots of reasons for reducing our dependence on oil: for one thing, it might keep us out of wars in the middle east, and for another it means we can't be held to ransom by corrupt theocracies. But let's do it for rational reasons with our eyes wide open, not in a mass apocalyptic panic.

Hear Hear John J .

I'm much more optimistic, humans have an amazing ability to adapt, create and innovate, and while many people have the ability to look forward and see limitations, they fail to see the potential we have as a species. Just think, if you believe we can influence the world detrimentally, then we also have the power to change it for the better.

Now try this at home. Tell your children that they are not allowed to have more than one child each, and that they must have a lower quality of life that you have lived. I think you will find that neither yourself, the government, or geology will be able prevent them from being smarter, wealthier and happier than the previous generation. This is the way it always has been and always will be.

Stazza: "I think you will find that neither yourself, the government, or geology will be able prevent them from being smarter, wealthier and happier than the previous generation. This is the way it always has been and always will be."

Firstly it hasn't always been that way. 50% of our population was wiped out by the black death, for instance. There was mass starvation during the "little ice age" or "medieval cooling", although despite its name this mostly effected Europe. Even in my life time, pictures of a country being "thinned" by starvation is not exactly unheard of. So in fact, unless you choose a short time scale (a few 100 years) it hasn't always been that way, quite the reverse - it has never been uniformly that way.

I can see you might think it could have been, for the last 200 years or so things have gotten better and better. In fact we have had exponential growth, and are continuing to grow exponentially. I assume you know that can only end one way, because elsewhere you said you are a scientist, and pointed out that the statement "During most of the history of life, species have become extinct at a slow, fairly regular pace" was "complete crap". And indeed, it was. When there are positive feedback loops nothing happens at a slow, regular pace. Instead we use terms like the "Cambrian Explosion" and "mass-extinction" to describe what happens.

And finally, nobody is asking your children not to have children. As I said, in Australian we just have to reduce immigration. But even in countries that don't have that option, it turns out womens education, freely available contraception and (surprisingly) our western soaps do a much better job of population control than a China style "you shall not have children" mandate. Just ask Iran. http://www.earth-policy.org/index.php?/plan_b_updates/2001/update4ss

Stezza said:
>I think you will find that neither yourself, the government, or
>geology will be able prevent them from being smarter, wealthier and
>happier than the previous generation. This is the way it always has
>been and always will be.

Why ?
There is no reason to believe it will always be as it is now.
Less energy will change everything we do, from the way we work to the
work we actually do. There will be many more farmers than now.
The Romans and every civilisation before and since though they were
there forever.

There is plenty of precedent to disbelieve your belief that
what is there today will be there tomorrow.

I understand what you are saying rstuart and bazz, however regardless of these disasters the human species has progressed and prospered. I simply just don't believe that we should look to the future and see doom and gloom.

On another note, if my posts seem rude (such as "complete crap") it is probably because I'm writing quickly between doing work and don't really read my posts before uploading. I really am a nice guy :)