For a short while at the school I was at we had an exercise of raising free range broiler chickens as a "business". One of my stronger memories is having to burn off a chunk off the top of their beaks to stop them cannabalising each other. This did not entirely stop them killing eachother.

Was it more humane than keeping them separate? Why on earth do we ascribe human values and emotions to these birds?

See pynchme, you don't understand my position.

'f we all created a demand for creatures to be farmed and dispatched as kindly as possible, there'd be an industry for it (like when my uncle used to farm) and we'd get better eggs anyway.'

I agree. But there's currently no way of knowing. As Shadow Minister said, there is 50% more free range eggs being sold than can possibly have been produced by the free range farms. So how do you know you're not eating non-free range eggs yourself.

'Btw: If you saw a youngster torturing a chook - doing something gross to it - would you approve? Would you stop it happening? Please explain why you would or wouldn't.'

I would. Unless the child was starving and in the process of killing it for food. Which was exactly my point. Show me. Don't show me some greenie grief porn, prove to me that the actual eggs I am buying came precisely from that place. And prove to me the chicken really is in pain, not just 'crowded' and denied doing what it 'likes' to do.

A question for you. If you saw many humans starving, and the only way of getting enough food was to farm chickens in this way, would you still rather the chickens were more comfortable and the little kiddies died. I'm not saying this is the case in any way, but hypothetically, would you?

Houlle “COl you sound to me like a chook liberationist “

HA HA not at all… I don’t think critter experience life on the same complex emotional level as humans… thus the notion of “chook liberation” would be as wasted on chooks as it would be on the grit chooks nibble on to make eggshell.

Pynchme “You demanded to be shown rather than just told”

I demand nothing and particularly not when a bunch of wallies make attempts, like nalood100 (misspelt “noodle”), to apply chook welfare on the same standards as humans. Putting “chook life quality” and their emotional esteem equal (re the stupid analogy to concentration camps) are the reactions of an intellectual dullard, however, it might be a reflection of developed reasoning skills comparable to a chook.

Pynchme “Col if you knew anything about chickens you'd know that they like to wander and browse”

Perhaps but the test should be “do they miss ‘wandering and browsing’ when they have never experienced it and how reliant is a chooks life on “wandering and browsing” – have you asked the chook or can you produce any wandering and browsing surveys or statistics proving your point or responded to by chooks?

Regarding the pointless torture of any animal is as offensive to me as anyone but such behavior, where sadistic gratification is the objective, is not comparable with commercial farming practices.

Cornflower “ to raise them in optimal growing conditions, disease free, low stress and with a ready supply of excellent food and clean water.”

I agree

It gets back to the ambience of the production process… stressed chooks are likely to be less productive than happy ones… and I did mention (modestly), on a previous post to this thread “happiness”.

I make a point of buying eggs from caged hens… why.. because they are likely as content and happy as free-range, despite what emotions some wallies imply (without the results of chook surveys) and they give them to me at half the price of the so called “free range” product, labeled solely to salve the conscience of the chronic sentimentalists.

Shadow Minister, hens end up "cannibalistic" due to stress! By crowding them together in such confined spaces, they become more aggressive. This is why part of their beaks are chopped off if caged. Hens do not normally display this amount of aggression. People crowded together in ghettos are more likely to evidence higher crime rates. The tails of piglets are chopped off for the same reason. Many people clearly have no empathy with animals and think of them as objects, resources, rather than as sentient creatures. We many have ended the official slavery of people, but the slavery of animals continues.

Yes Col I do feel an affinity and 'at-one' with the feathered creatures. That is all I can say - no point trying to teach an old dog new tricks. :)

Houlley, there is pleny of evidence - I have already said go visit a battery farm (if they let you in) or read a book, google etc, - make your up your own mind - although it seems you already have.

Personally, I blame "Humpty Dumpty" authors. It is of course, an intentional thwartmentisation of human compassion for hatching chickens. I'm sure it's part of the New World Order the Illuminati have in store for us.

Chickens first - then humans. Think I'm wrong? Ha! Read the US dollar bill, read the Mayan calendar. It's obvious: after 2012 it's one eyed chickens with pyramid shaped eggs. Why? Easier to transport so bankers and interbreeding cartels can save on road costs.

Turtles? Cute. Penguins? Very, very cute and they have Attenborough as their Patron. Poo powered pigeons? Annoying, but protected by law from assault.

Still, we can kill 'em ever so slowly via high cholesterol by tossing Macca's chippes at 'em as we wait... and wait... for public transport. Illuminati owned public transport no less. Then, in preparation for pyramid shaped seats, they squeeze us into carriages - like, like... hen cages! See?!

Oh Humpty! If only you had sat on a cage floor.