Squeers said we must moderate our demands individually and I agree with him. However some poor person in the third world just wants what we are having too, remember that!
Squeers can you convince that shining knight of the AGW, sorry climate change lobby Al Gore to moderate his demands? That fat oaf consumes more than an African village all on his own.
However big Al has lots of dopey minions like you to adore him, pour scorn on people like me who think you are both wrong and who cares about the third world?
The last bit was rhetorical as we all could not give an Australian stuff!

Nice attempt at dodging your own words, Squeers, but I never said anything about "the right to be indifferent to the Earth's other species and natural wonders".

What I did say was that people who rail against democracy as rule by "feral pigs", and advocate overturning it in favour of a dictatorship of elites, are skating perilously close to fascism.

The old smug 'moderate our lifestyle' argument;
Obviously ignoring;
-Electric cars, with electric infrastructure appearing in Sweden
-Miniature Vertical Wind Turbines powering apartments in Amsterdam
-Solar panels, rainwater tanks, individual filtering systems and some simple plumbing arrangements can render a house fully self-sufficient
-Major polluting industries lobbying governments when in power
-Highly polluting industries currently not regulated on their practices concerning the environment, are granted (by the government) easy access to natural resources to harvest, have so far only been asked to pay extra (through their ratepayers).
-Developers given green lights (again, by government, against visible public protest) to override any environmental regulators to make their money-spinners.
ALL of which the 'feral pigs' would demand more access to if they were ever given a say- as it means free energy and water, cleaner air and less corruption, along with environmental improvements (which you assume NOBODY but yourself care about).

But no- the only way to save the world is to cut the above proposals as lost causes and instead demand the hoi poli to cycle around Sydney's 12144.6 km2 area, (over 50 times larger than any European city), go to sleep at 6.00pm (no power = happy environment), and pay extra taxes to hopefully encourage someone else NOT to pollute, and THAT should make a bigger outcome, because it's all really their fault for tolerating it.

Quite frankly if I were a member of an environmentally-UNfriendly industry, THIS is the kind of "environmentalist" I would employ to shift attention from myself.

King Hazza

I despair, truly.

When we can't even reach a consensus whether we should actually take action towards clean sustainable living, let alone the type of infrastructure that would enable a balance between pragmatism and the modern comfort to which we have become accustomed.

I agree, cycling around Sydney would be a nightmare - those steep gradients and of course the expanse of the city itself. Like most solutions, there is not a single magic bullet, but rather a combination. Cycling has its place, as does effective public transport, electric cars and a multiplicity of energy sources from geothermal, wind, solar to hydro.

Ironically, the vast strata of brown coal in Victoria insulate geothermal energy which could provide unlimited heating by leaving the coal in the ground and drilling below. At present the feasibility of drilling beneath the coal strata is very expensive and would require cooperation between the coal industry and government.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/nationalinterest/stories/2009/2722723.htm

I live in hope.

I think we have a reasonably optimistic situation at present Fractelle- at least with these to begin with a substantial change in environmental circumstances would occur.

The only problem is a high initial cost of implementing these things directly, or a lower cost of subsidies and assistance of easier market access to these things- and I'm pretty sure that they'd all be popular proposals to the public- being that it also means having free, independent energy and water generation and usage, better living conditions (lack of air and noise pollution from regular cars replaced by cars that may well be attached to an electricity grid (cheaper also- especially if its attached to a non-private renewable source)- leaving again the only cost being the gradual implementation of car recharge services, as opposed to the continuous re-purchase of petrol) and industry that's not beyond control environmentally.

The only problem is the lack of enthusiasm from the industries to make/import electric and hybrid vehicles to any particular degree, and the absolutely zero enthusiasm from the government to take measures to accomodate these technologies, but rather help the existing industries.