Col,

'The boats should be either

1 treated as misplaced/misdirected and turned around.
OR
2 treated as “hostile” and the Australian Defense forces use all military means at their disposal to ensure they do not land on Australian sovereign territory, sinking being but one option.'

Ah Col I cant agree. I think as long as they are on barely sea worthy craft, overloaded to 5 times capacity, they should stay just for their achievement in making it. Further, I think we should film it and have a survivor type show, that follows them from the start, and follows their life after they are granted citizenship. It would be great TV.

I once knew a guy who came on a boat from Vietnam, and the stories he used to tell were fantastic. Surely you can appreciate the human endeavour to better oneself? I'd much rather desperate economic refugees, filling the country with economic prosperity and working hard for a better life than a local who expects the guvment to look after him.

Surely at least you'd support the opportunity for all that below minimum wage unskilled labour from illegal immigrants. It can be the engine room for a country. I remember when I lived in London, catching mini-cabs everywhere and thinking the city would come to a stand-still if all the illegal immigrants left all at once.

Or maybe it's better we exploit the poor at arms length by just investing in countries where the wages are really low and skimming the profits. As they exploit us of-course, for a ladder to a better life.

Ah, I love nature. The co-dependency of different animals. It's a beauty to behold. Something the socialists would never understand.

Burbs “The purpose of fleeing persecution is to flee persecution, is it not? If these people are not being persecuted in Indonesia why continue to Australia?”

Exactly and here is the answer

For these “economic opportunists” (because the term “refugee” just does not apply ), Indonesia does not offer the same “economic opportunity” as Australia.

To the individual economic opportunists and their families, who have been interviewed and been given airtime on the Australian broadcasting networks I have this so say

Australia is legally entitled to determine who is allowed to settle in Australia.

I had to wait in a queue….

You can wait in a queue (if you have the credentials to support your application)

But

You do not get to unilaterally decide for yourself.

And you do not get to or determine that

“Australia looks like a nice place to invade today… so let’s just wreck the boat on a convenient beach”

Houlle “Surely at least you'd support the opportunity for all that below minimum wage unskilled labour from illegal immigrants.”

I do not support exploitation in any form. Such practices debase the opportunity for legal workers (migrants or otherwise) and create an oppressed underclass. Better everyone who is allowed to settle in Australia is treated equally (by deporting illegal arrivals) than creating a differential based on their residential legal status

Col,

'I do not support exploitation in any form. Such practices debase the opportunity for legal workers (migrants or otherwise) and create an oppressed underclass. Better everyone who is allowed to settle in Australia is treated equally (by deporting illegal arrivals) than creating a differential based on their residential legal status'

You're right of course Col. But they needn't be illegal if we give them residency. I just think a lot of the jobs most Aussies think they're too good for can be done by people who are desperate for a chance while learning the language skills. It works in London. The fact that these people are so resourceful and hard working means they soon climb out of this 'underclass' in a country like Australia, and then are replaced with new economic opportunists.

I know it's far easier to get a cab in London after a night out, and that's just one of the benefits.

'Such practices debase the opportunity for legal workers'
Not really. You would have been in a different employment market as you were a skilled migrant who speaks English. Also a lot of the lower skilled jobs the locals just wont do.

I can see the fear though. Once we encourage the practise it will be more and more common for people smugglers to exploit these people who are willing to risk their lives for a better world. But in your libertarian philosophy, isn't that the choice of the people paying the people smugglers. It's a market, and the smugglers provide a service.

As I said, surely you can appreciate the human endeavour to better oneself? I think those boat people are fantastic! Maybe I just appreciate the physical challenge of getting her on a rickety boat rather than the psychological challenge of fighting with government agencies and bribing bureaucrats to get here by other means.

Houlle “As I said, surely you can appreciate the human endeavour to better oneself?”

Of course.

And I also appreciate the equal application of law

I had to wait in a queue and jump over some specific hurdles before gaining residency in Australia.

I see no justifiable reason to remove those laws for the benefit of people who would flaunt the law and demand Australia subordinate itself for the sake of their sense of personal entitlement.

As I have quoted – there can be no entitlement without first meeting an obligation.

In this instance, the “obligation” is to present and qualify for a valid visa before residential “entitlement” is granted

or

to seek to join others for a place in the quota of “real” refugee applicants.

Those who attempt to circumvent this balance of “obligation and entitlement” are demonstrating their criminal nature and so demonstrate their inability to meet the one of the basics of the obligation upon which entitlement is earned (good character).

This whole debate is about Australia exercising its sovereignty and deciding who comes here...

and not giving in to the Anarchy of non-Australians and illegal aliens deciding who comes here.

Every day I check but still no response Susan. Question too hard?

Houellebecq

<< Maybe I just appreciate the physical challenge of getting her on a rickety boat ... >>

As a mere female myself, yes, you'd have a challenge getting me onto one of those. :)

In all seriousness, you present a good case, even if it is one based on unabashed self-serving pragmatism.

Col will never listen to the likes of me, but you might cut through with some sound economic argument. After all, Col's free market capitalist utopia will collapse without a ready supply of cheap and willing labor.

Col Rouge

<< And I also appreciate the equal application of law. >>

Equal application of the law, as applied to two groups who are negotiating from vastly unequal positions to begin with, can only result in an unjust outcome.

Someone from a comfortable middle class background - who seeks to emigrate for no other reason than to better an already comparatively affluent lifestyle - is in a very different position to someone who seeks protection in another country for no other reason than to escape torture and death in his or her homeland. Standing these two people in the same 'queue' would be a gross miscarriage of justice.

<< I had to wait in a queue and jump over some specific hurdles before gaining residency in Australia. I see no justifiable reason to remove those laws for the benefit of people who would flaunt the law and demand Australia subordinate itself for the sake of their sense of personal entitlement. >>

Is their so-called 'sense of personal entitlement' any different to your own? In fact, many would argue that their circumstances warrant a sense of urgency, or an 'entitlement', that yours patently did not.

TBC