Bueno, Sancho! Gracias por eso. Pienso que tu eres un mucho hombre MACHO. Que es su problemo? Tu tambian no tegustas las chicas?

You are all just a bunch of blokes who don’t care much about women - that’s all I seem to see. It’s all honky dory in the male Muslim world – perhaps you should join them. All I am reacting to is human suffering and inequality. What is wrong? Am I really being unreasonable to have concerns? You are all just cracking up about some Christian stances I’ve made as I’ve realised that some kind of defence is now required.

Oliver, I just cannot tolerate anything resembling totalitarianism or fascism - that’s it basically. It just scares me. Do you ever read any type of contemporary factual information in TODAY’S WORLD and not just dwell into historical obscurities? I cannot see the purpose of this. I note you only acknowledged my post with male(?)Jesuits.

Just wish to say a little about myself so you get some sort of picture of where I’m coming from. I’m no holy Joe, more of an offbeat unconventional type and have travelled broadly intermittently (particularly in developing countries)totally several years because of my insatiable curiosity. As I have told Oliver before, I have also hitched a ride with a Muslim truckie and stayed overnight in his family home – no problemo. I like individuals more than gangs with herd mentalities and who follow fashionable thoughts just to be accepted. Unfortunately, Kashmir is now not as it was then. It is the growing fundies and extremists (not just Muslims and not just religious). I have never been a religious type at all, just really a bit of a soul searching free-wheeling nomadic bum trying to stay sane. As a Liberatarian it can be difficult. I have not sat in any academic institution playing conformist and fascist PC games. I query everything. I do wonder about today’s uni students – are they taught what to think instead of how to think? Con't...

.. It appears educational institutions are dumbing down these days and free speech fading, with the humanities and arts shrinking and being taken over by business type courses for the sake of money.

I have never even thought much about my upbringing much until lately, because the world has now changed and I only wish for a better world as I’m sure most people would. As much of some past fury I may have had with my father at times, I now realise all the Christian good he did, ongoing energetic charity work with large family and changeing challenging careers and was always there for my lousy netball games etc, and everyone else. Don’t know how he did it. He also assisted Muslims EVEN– wah! - My older sister just happened to mention recently that he had remarked once about it being quite trying for him at times when he was giving assistance to the several wives/families of the one bloke. My father was no Holy Joe, who he too like me just dismiss. He just had the sense of charity and social justice as a Christian, you see. Charities did not have origins in the secular world.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, ACTIONS speak louder than words.

Impassiveness/passivity, indifference, violence and ignorance is basically what I am now rebelling against. I do feel the natives are getting restless. Deep analysis is needed for prevention of detriment. Positive freedom, please.

Dear Constance,

This is a Forum where we discuss rant-free issues and exchange ideas.
I am unsure how misogamy entered into the discourse, except your introduction of the topic, presumably to criticise the Muslims. Herein, I would agree with you, only adding the same applies to Christianity and Christianity’s scriptures. Assuming Pope Joan is fiction, there have been no female Popes. It would be hard to build a case for the monotheist religions being egalitarian, rather than misogynist. Those citations from the Bible were not exhaustive, Egalitarianism and recognition based on merit is more likely find its proper place among secular humanists.

As for nuns, their life was especially cloistered before Vatican II. Secular values in Western societies acted to liberate them somewhat. If you need to be reminder, try and find a copy of the film classic, “Nun’s Story”. Even today, Catholic male clergy administer over females nuns. That religion has a bullet-poof glass ceiling.
In sum, I am all for equality of the sexes and find Islam and Christianity in opposition to that ideal, despite religious platitudes of, equal but different. The ancient polytheistic religions were more balanced with goddesses, muses and female oracles.

To be fair, Lot-like, I tried checked on the seventh century, to see if Christians behaved themselves between the Nicean atrocities and Crusades. I discovered there were some earlier crusades and that there were conflicts between the iconoclasts and those whom did not wish to have Jesus depicted in art. As a result, we had the usual blood-shed and the destruction of art.

The Bible teaches love your enemies and don’t judge others. Good values, for sure. Many significant teachings which are attributed to Jesus have high worth for secular humanists and embittered religionists. I truly wonder what Jesus would have thought about the Pauline-Constantinian aberration which grew-up in his name.

Oliver,
The “ Pauline-Constantinian aberration which grew-up in his name” was as much a reaction against asceticism as atrocity and injustice. Paul was a zealous advocate of ‘evangelical’ freedom and was in opposition to all legal bondage and anxious asceticism. His one marriage of the clergy was ‘the rule’, not-withstanding his personal and relative preference for celibacy.

It should be remembered that in the company of his disciples, of both sexes, with family and friends, in Cana and Bethany, dining with publicans and sinners, Jesus had social intercourse with all classes of people. His poverty and celibacy have nothing to do with asceticism, but represent an ideal uniqueness and absolutely peculiar relation to the church. Paul, despite his faults, embodied this spirit and was not secluded.

I think one needs to reflect, it is not monasticism, as such, which has proved a blessing to the church and the world; for the monasticism of India, which for three thousand years has pushed the practice of mortification to all the excesses of delirium, has never saved a single ‘soul’, nor produced a single benefit to the race – one could well argue it is from within the spirit of Christianity, that proved a blessing to any form of monasticism; while separated from it, it degenerated and became at fruitful source of ‘evil’.

Indifference for the family life, the civil and military service of the state, and all public practical operations turned the channels of religion from the world into the desert, hastening the decline of Egypt, Syria, Palestine, and the whole Roman empire. It nourished religious fanaticism, often raised storms of popular agitation, and rushed passionately into the controversies of theological parties generally, it is true, on the side of orthodoxy, but often, in favor of heresy, and especially in behalf of the crudest superstition

Dear Oliver,

I purely reacted to your statement (and did not want you to get away with it): “What Christians need to learn is compassion and understanding not only for themselves but towards others. We should love our fellow humans and embrace peaceful diversity.” Love thy neighbour? They have been doing that, and as for understanding, can be a bit trying but nonetheless they try. All very empty feel good sentiment – you must feel very fluffy inside, Oliver. It cannot be a one way street. Do not preach to the Christians (especially liberal) please. I find you confusing. Hadiths of intolerance of non-muslims does not help things. Yes, I have become a bit of a raving ranter, but just getting tired of misguided platitudes of appeasement.
It seems you are not living in today and I am, and that is why we clash. I reacted to the misogyny issue because it appears you condone my points regarding the plight of women living under totalitarianism - you have completely lost me. And no, there seems to be various nun orders, Mary MacKillop for eg. who may have had some challenges with the hierarchy, but still overcame and operated autonomously, like other orders of today. A female pope, yes, would be unique, but with my experience working under most female managers, give me the males, oops! Queen Elizabeth for eg was unique; Margaret Thatcher, Sarah Patin – no way. Angela Merkel, she seems to be doing fine. Rigaberta Manchu looks like she is in the race for presidency in Guatemala, last I read – a nobel prize winner for human rights who I met briefly – she comes across as sincere and genuine and without neurosis. Whatever!

.. Cont’d

Oliver,

this is now becoming a rather private dialogue. Apologies. But Oliver and I have done this before in another article or two where the posts have been flogged to death and have found ourselves in the dark bottom corners where no one else is listening, thank goodness, and come to dead ends. But I just have this propensity to react to mistruths and distortions. Oliver, I live in today and just want solutions – issues must be addressed, please do not overlook this. Pretensions of feelgood do not go anywhere. There is plenty of crap in the western and non western world, but freedom from oppression is my foremost prerogative. I do see Sellick’s point: “Monotheism is taken here (by the Media) as the one thing they have in common that allows us to sweep them up together as though they were slightly different versions of the same thing.” And this is the reason why I am arguing with you. Sellick: “The declaration that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are monotheistic blurs a crucial distinction between them. While Christianity and Judaism share central tenants about God, Islam is quite different. At the risk of misrepresenting Islam, I think it is right to say that while Judaism and Christianity emphasise God as Presence, the God of Islam is more a distant lawmaker.” This is the relevant point, lawmaker of ideology. Sellick: “This assumption also allows the persecutors of “religion” to drop them all in the same rubbish bin.” Yes, you’ve been missing the point, Oliver. Sellick : “In true monotheism, such as I think Islam is, a transcendent God gives his law and the response of the people is simply to obey that law. God does not take the side of humanity, he does not accompany them.” True, I’m afraid the laws of Islam seem simply inhumane.

Appeasement only encourages the problem. It's not respect that's being demonstrated, but fawning. Other religions have enough maturity and security to ignore slights. In an advanced society we don't need to restrict the right to freedom of speech and expression.