TR...[QUOTE...putting out distractions..<<If you take the view that an omnipotent God..(somehow) manipulates DNA directly then you have to to explain Congenital Blindness, Beta thalassaemia, Klinefelter Syndrome, Prader-Willi Syndrome, Tay-Sachs Syndrome, and Neurofibromatosis.>>

COUNTER ARGUMENT..clearly your delusions extend to non life making life...please make this small achievment before claiming science delusion..as science fact...are any of these malformation/error/sports and proof of evolution of genus...or species specific

such a clever man such as you...shoul/could/can might...lol..name this first life once and for all...would will/could..can//'lol/..no doudt validate..at least one of these evolutions into new genus

[funny how all the 'evolutionist faithfull/nuttersbelievers not priest[nor scientisyt...yet hold their words holy...lol..claim are all intra genus..where/as..like mutates into like...not evolves out of species into new genus...

name a complete evolution..[beginning..one species.genus.. to end..neo[new] genus new species..its simply NEVER HAPPEND..but you claim millions..prove JUST ONE]

dont claim science..has answers sonny...state them..stop ya speculation..present your fact...there is none..

you lot traded a living god sustaining..all life..for dead science wrought from lies and deceptions...and new science high priests that say trust science...take our poisen..let us do your math..we will prove things next year...lol

<<For God to overlook these DNA cock-ups>>>...science method rejoices in these so caled cockup...its that one experiment that goes wroing that has a higher teaching..than the 999 that were the same[but you got no science mind..thus swallow the dork's gibberish speculations]...buy the books but dontr comprehend them so quote themn to be clever in faith...smart aAARESES...LIKE DUMB SHEEP...FOLLOWING THE DORK-IN[GOD HEAD]

your presumptions..are revealing your own hopeless delusion....<<..''you would have to say that he is ither an incomptent genetic engineer''>>>..i will presume..either a genetic engeneer has to be an idiot...yet only an idiot would disqualify gene engeneering ability..as proof of not-impotance...lol..<<''(and therefore not omnipotent'')>>

<<or sadistic..(and therefore not merciful or benevolent)>>>

you believers in science should wisper ypur faith in science...see its the same mindless idocracy in a lab coat...not a black dress...with the same sharlitons running the same book sales to the faithfull and mind-dull.

For the last few centuries, after the humilation of the church following the trial of Gallileo, the church has been forced to give up control over scientific research.

However, the church's power still enabled it to claim authority over the spiritual and moral areas of human endeavour. This enabled it to continue to flex its muscles and interfere in the lives of believers and non believers alike, by controlling funding etc:

- Stem cell research
- Reproductive research
- Contraception / sex education
- Termination of unwanted pregnancies

Dawkins is one of the first scientists to openly break this unwritten truce, and claim that the churches claim to moral authority is flawed and illogical, and that humanity is perfectly capable of finding its own ethical compass without the church's corrosive influence.

The reason that his views have been so actively opposed is because the church can see that the athiests and agnostics who have in the past been content to accept the status quo, have now seen that they don't have to. The church sees its future as junior partner in society, which is tolerated rather than referred to.

Copernicus and Galileo were men of their times and influenced of course by prevailing thought. Of course they stepped outside the bounds of logic to bolster support for their theories. The prevailing view at the time was that the Earth stood still and all the objects in the sky orbited the earth. Copernicus and Galileo produced an alternative theory because a sun-centered solar system was more mathematically appealing and explained more observations than an Earth-centered one. Even though the scientific method had not been fully promulgated then, Copernicus and Galileo used three key planks: observation; hypothesis development that explained observations; and predictions arising from the hypothesis that could be tested. Included with this were cultural hangovers – as should be expected.

The scientific method has served mankind well in explaining the universe around them for a couple of hundred years. It will continue to do so into the future. The continual testing of predictions will refine hypotheses to more and more accurately reflect the real world rather than the imagined one. One day humans will understand that they are not at the center of any universe except in their own imagination.

This is after all the point of Dawkin's writings.

Note that neither runner nor OUG made any attempt to answer TR's question, and responded with abuse and condemnation instead.

That, in a nutshell, is why we're a secular nation. "Believe what I say, without evidence, or you'll go to hell" can't compete with a body of reliable, demonstrated knowledge.

And we can all play the tiny question game, OUG. Tell me what Jesus Christ ate for lunch on November 14, 23AD. Obviously, if you can't provide that simple detail, Christ didn't exist and your religion is a lie.

Inherited (genetic) diseases are a 'Clear evidence of sin'??

Runner, I didn't know you believed in Larmarckism. If moral conduct conveys genetic inheritence then you may as well admit that a giraffe stretching its neck to reach the top of trees also conveys genetic inheritence and increases the length of the neck for future generations of giraffe. I really think you should pick up a text book on Mendelian genetics.

As for the Devil causing diseases like Tay-Sachs disease, well that is just plain laughable. You would have to argue that the Devil is also a genetic engineer like God and able to directly manipulate DNA. Also, implicating the Devil doesn't make God any less culpable. Being both omnipotent and merciful he could easily overide the Devils handy-work in order to alleviate human suffering. Because God does nothing we can only assume that he is sadistic like the Devil, or not omnipotent after all.

It is not necessary to explain inherited (genetic) diseases by evoking sin, the Devil, or the monotheistic God. I'm sure Dawkins would agree.

It really doesnt matter what atheists agnostics and theists have to say about God. There is only one reality. God just keeps coming into being, developing, becoming.Evolution is only just one manifestation. God didnt make the world.He cant make anything.He is everything. Every thing that went wrong and goes wrong in evolution, every war, every act of goodness are but developments that go on all the time. Dawkins's denial, and that of every atheist or whoever is merely the single aspect of God's introspection or self-awareness. The so-called Big Bang if ever there was one or not was notthe beginnimng of it all. Such temporat concepts are the assessments of finite cognitive exercises. When the planetary system implodes as it must the transformation goes on in other spheres. Constellations are being born and dying all the time ....as can be seen by radio telescopes at any observatory. It's like the various cells ofthe human body dying and being replaced. It's all a process.
I can understaand humans talking about God using language that is symbolical, metaphorical metaphysical mathematical and scientific...how else can we ever talk about somethingso vital about our reality. Language was never devised to contain God. God can only ever be experienced...in love,hate,fear or whatever..
Process theology has been criticised as being too abstract and reducing God to merely energy or evolutionary processes. Whatr else can God be? I actually hate the use of the word "GOD"...it has caused enough death and destruction.

socratease