Lets hope all the overseas students go home. They are using Australia. They are actually abusing our system. I would bet that most of them don't care too much about the quality of the education they receive, they simple want something that gives them eligibility to apply and receive Australian residency. I have noted a huge explosion in the numbers of Indians in Melbourne over recent years. In my opinion they are nothing but trouble. Australia would do much better to ban foreign students and educate our own students. I have spoken with Indians on numerous occasions. They are some of the most racist people you will ever meet. Watch the problems grow as we allow these 3rd world people into our once great country.

I agree with Ozzie. I also think because the foreign student education programmes are such big business, education should having nothing to do with immigration. Once a student has finished their course of education they should be made to return to their own country and if they wish to immigrate to Australia they should then apply.

I also think that decisions about who comes to Australia on the immigration plan should be made by the Australian people and Australia should not be dictated to by monetary or overseas influences.

I want more Indian students to come over here. They are the best thing in Adelaide since sliced bread - which we only just got recently.

They add true cultural diversity, inject money in to the economy, and bring new entreprenurial ideas with them. As a former small business owner, I could not get enough Indian employees. They were hard workers and came up with brilliant IT and logistics management solutions. They also introduced me to great business contacts back in India.

Ozzie and Marie are time travellers from the 1950s and evince the kind of ignorance that reminds me of that old TV show The Sullivans.

Malcolm King is spot on in this article. However, in addition to his proposed advertising campaign to sell what is a major export product for Australia, a couple of other things need to happen.

Firstly, public transport needs to be made safe for all users. If that means employing transit police, then funds should be found. In particular, it sounds like Melbourne has real law and order problems that are getting worse.

Secondly, the linking of fee-paying education with residency visas must stop. Obviously, the relaxation of the rules in 2001 has led to the rise of shonky 'colleges' that are really back door immigration agencies pretending to be educational facilities.

Thirdly, Australian universities should provide accommodation specifically for fee-paying overseas students, the cost of which should be built into the fee structure.

As King suggests, the current situation is a mess, where overseas students are unsafe and unfairly targeted by Australian thugs and criminals. While claims of Australian racism have been exaggerated, the first couple of comments on this article indicate that it's still there, bubbling away just below the surface of acceptable discourse.

Cheryl, whatever way you put it a great number of these students are still trying to come in through the back door, that's why they come to study in Australia. In Sydney we already have and accepted massive cultural diversity and Sydney also has large amounts of money being injected into the economy through these students. But that doesn't mean we have to take them in as permant residents. That's what is called business.
I run a small business and have Indian employees. Remember we are talking about "students" here, not mature employees.
I'm not a time traveller just someone who who is trying to think what's good for Australia and not just myself.
By the way Cheryl my post name is MAREELORRAINE.

C J Morgan,
I believe its you that is the racist when you state "Australian thugs and criminals". If you in fact bothered to do some searching you would find that many of the bashings and assaults on Indians were in fact committed by recent immigrants. Its interesting how you label these people Australian thugs and criminals. The only thing that was reported was the bashing of Indians and you (without any investigation) immediately label these attackers as Australians just because it took place on Australian soil. Why do you do that? If you bothered to do some searching you would in fact find the majority of the attacks are from foreigners bringing their customs of violence here to Australia. Last year there was an uproar from the indian taxi drivers being assaulted. Of 12 attacks, 10 drivers reported that their attackers had dark skin. Of the Indian boy attacked on the train that caused the initial uproar this year, one of his attackers was in fact Indian. The origin of the others was kept secret ( although i'm sure you will assume they are Australian).
So I believe it is in fact you that is racist, without proof you immediately label the attackers "Australian thugs and criminals". You really should be ashamed of yourself for jumping to such conclusions.

Apols Mareelorraine,

Of course democracy needs to be a broad church with a diversity of opinions. I just don't agree with yours.

Back on message re the article, it seems clear to me that the Unis and Tafes didn't know what to do and the media reporting of assaults kept the fires burning - and then the two colleges (three now I think) closed.

I like the idea of a national Indian TV campaign.

CJ Morgan is right in that we need to disconnect the 'visa for residency' avenue. About one in 10 international students make application to stay. How many hairdressers and welfare helpers do we need?

I think the itnernational student market grew too fast, and dare I say it, even some of the big unis turned a blind eye.

I think some of these issues should be seperated.

Law and Order is breaking down in Melbourne and Sydney and the reason there is more known about the Indian students is because it was reported in the Indian press. Our own press being too happy to take the ALP press releases as "investigative journalism" and leave it at that. Of course there's always a chance to embarass the opposition and that's way more important than questioning the current government's performance, isn't it?

The behaviour of thugs, Australian or not, in the cities is in complete disregard to the law and does not discriminate. the Indians are hot items right now so the press see some bad news and have jumped onto it. It's not as if there is suddenly a breakdown in Law and Order, it's been breaking down for some time, since the courts tend to forgive not punish.

Public Transport is a joke in the big cities and not safe at all, nor will it be when the government outsources security to various agencies who all subcontract to the lowest bidder.

The governments in Victoria and NSW have bled money off to various social programs and now there is not enough policing, no surprise. We have a way to deal with this, we vote them out at the next election. Unless they trade it off for something else of course, like no dams, or art in the parks or of course taxes on the rich.

The breakdown in services is our own fault for allowing the governments to manipulate the basic agenda of what a government is supposed to do, and don't get me started on supply of water and electricity!

Spin Doctor King ignores the worst evil:the corruption of universities who refuse to fail full fee paying overseas sudents, however bad their English. Leslie

I studied in Australia during 2003-05 and returned to India after finishing my studies. At that time there was no violence on Indians in Melbourne through i observed that some sort of ignorance exists in Australians about Indians, but that cannot be termed as racism. When i was a student majority of the Indian students were attending universities studying IT, Electronics, Engineering, Accountacy, Business etc. Now overwhelming majority goes to colleges to study cooking, hair dressing and hospitality. If they come back with a cooking diploma from unkown college in an alien country, will they get job in India?. No way, their diploma certificates are not even recognised in India. This is nothing but an immigration scam. I chose Australia because i wanted to specialise in VLSI design and i had positive opinion about Australia like it's a developed country and i will have ample opportunities like in the US. I returned because i found out in Australia that semiconductor industry is non existent in Australia and India is a land of opportunities as i can get the job i wanted i.e. designing microchips. I had an option of getting Australian permanant residency and do some odd jobs but i don't wanted to. If you have skills you can survive anywhere but if you do cooking diploma you have remain in Australia at any cost.

Whatever is going on it needs to be transparent, to the Australian electorate and to fee paying customers that come here for their education/residence dupe. I don't recall a political party descibing a policy which allows foreigners to buy their way into the country via an education pretence. Oh yeah they tell you all about the money, x billion dollars in foreign education injected into the Australian economy, but they won't tell us about the trade-off, that in many cases the students are effectively buying residence. Do we want these residents, are they the best for Australia, do we get to have a say? In seems also a large portion of the money is going to these rank second tier education providers, come to Australia and learn how to cook, how to wait tables, pass a multiple-choice IT exam. Anyone who's visited a developing world nation such as India will appreciate how great the incentive is to take advantage of residency opportunities to the first world, even middle class living is still decrepit compared to living in Australia's more lowly suburbs. With a billion people in India it doesn't take many of them to create a long willing line of pay per residence applicants, now call me Pauline Hanson if you wish but our 20 million can very easily be swamped when you leave these taps open long enough.

So I'm the racist here?

ozzie: << If you bothered to do some searching you would in fact find the majority of the attacks are from foreigners bringing their customs of violence here to Australia. Last year there was an uproar from the indian taxi drivers being assaulted. Of 12 attacks, 10 drivers reported that their attackers had dark skin. >>

If you bothered to provide some kind of evidence for this claim I might believe you. I've seen this claim made at various blogs, but strangely nobody's provided a link to a reputable source for verification.

Besides which, you seem to think that immigrants and people with "dark skin" aren't Australian. I've said that I think that the claims of racism are exaggerated - it doesn't matter what the ethnicity of the attackers is, the fact is that Indian students have reportedly been attacked at disproportionate rates and it's Australian residents and/or citizens who are apparently doing it, regardless of their ethnic background or skin colour.

Leslie - do you have any evidence of "universities who refuse to fail full fee paying overseas sudents, however bad their English"? If that is occurring it certainly should be stopped, but again I suspect that this is simply apocryphal scuttlebutt circulated by racist Australian underachievers.

Sudhir

You made some excellent points with your post.

If Australia continues to simply export raw materials and close manufacturing as it has been, I am not at all surprised to find that there is more employment for IT, Scientists and similar professionals in India which has been making huge inroads into future technologies.

Australia could do so as well; invest in sustainable technology, scientific research as well as IT. There was a time when our Universities stood for something more than profit.

Good Luck for the future.

Interesting comments.

I finally watched a recorded episode of the Indian students' plight on Insight.

I was actually embarassed by what has happended and should have known more about the issues after years of wondering what these colleges were about as I observed many foreign students outside so-called city colleges.

Australia needs to lift its game. Students coming here just for residency is a joke, govt's relying on such dodgy unregulated industry is a joke, and the treatment of foreign students in terms of accommodation and other services is a joke.

C Morgan,
I apologize as my statement about the 12 taxi drivers was incorrect. I have checked the reference from the Sun Herald dated 3/6/09 titled "We're not the racists" in which it clearly states that "of the 12 attacks on taxi drivers between May 8 and August 12...... in EVERY case the victims told police their attackers were AFRICAN and ALL but 2 of the victims were INDIAN."
So I was wrong, I said 10 of the 12 attacks were from dark skinned individuals, whereas it was infact ALL 12.
If you have any evidence to dispute this I would be interested.
Also in the same article it states clearly that a pakistani Uni student Mukul Khanna describes how many of his friends have been attacked " mostly NOT by locals but by people who themselves are of foreign origin."
Also in the same article another student Tanveer X who was bashed in January describes " 4 black men ....hit me with a stick.....I want action against those AFRICAN guys."
Also you have stated that "it doesn't matter what the ethnicity of the attackers is" but you do feel it is important what the ethnicity of the victims is "the fact is that Indian students have reportedly been attacked at disproportionate rates." Why does it matter what the ethnicity is of the victims, if it does not matter what the ethnicity is of the attackers? why? You want to identify one but not the other. Surely if one ethnic group is being disproportionately targeted we want to know, and likewise if one ethnic group is disproportionately doing most of the attacks we want to know.
You have also identified the victims as Indians yet the attackers you say are apparently Australian residents and /or citizens regardless of their ethnic background. Can I ask why you assume that the victims are not residents &/or citizens yet you assume that the attackers are citizens &/or residents. Do you have any proof to back up your assumption? Could I not equally assume that many of the victims are Australians of indian origin?

ozzie, you're quite correct that it would be relevant if the attacks against Indian students were all perpetrated by the same ethnic minority of Australian citizens or residents, but unfortunately we'll have to take your word for it in the absence of a link to the report. I don't suppose you have one? I searched the Sun-Herald website to no avail, and I haven't seen any verifiable information that supports your claims - but there's plenty of hysterical factoids floating around the wingnut blogs.

Why have I identified the victims as Indian students? Because that's what the article's about, you racist dimwit.

You didn't search very far did you. I told you it was in the Sun Herald and I told you the exact name of the article. Have you ever heard of a little thing called Google. If you had bothered to lift your fingers and type in Sun Herald and then the name of the article, then the VERY FIRST result is the article I am talking about. I thought I had made it easy for you, I even gave you the date as well. Not only are you a racist but you are also thick, really THICK. So go ahead and check the article. Then please give me an article that supports what you have said.
You still have not said why you wish to identify the ethnicity of the victims but not the attackers. Please also give me references that show me articles to support the rest of your statements.
I also apologize again, as I would have made it easier for you if I'd known you were that thick.

Actually ozzie, I can't find it either, so you're blowing it out of where the sun don't shine.

The article was about an international PR problem when government and unis failed to address a problem of alleged racists attacks and then fraud by some private providers.

Try keep within coeee digger of the basic premise of the story.

I can tell by your vocab and tone that you wrap yourself pretty tight in the Australia flag. You might have even been to Gallipoli or possibly even as far as the corner shop. You might even get choked up at the Dawn Service, but when the going gets tough maaaate, you'll be long gone.

Dear Cheryl,

Interesting reading in the article ozzie talks about. Those search terms he states worked for me and appears first on my search result. Reading half way down the article clearly describes how the men involved were all of African decent. Maybe our immigration laws do need to be looked at. I never knew this.

PS Cheryl I used the search terms-

Sun herald we're not the racists

and it was first on the list.

regards, Giao

Thanks Giao, what's the link?

Cheryl - ozzie's talking about an article that appeared in the Melbourne Herald-Sun, rather than the Sydney Sun-Herald. Unsurprisingly, it's a classic beat-up by that paragon of objective Australian reprtage, Andrew Bolt.

The link is http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25578055-5000117,00.html . Of course, ozzie could simply have posted the link rather than playing silly games. Clearly, ozzie wants to divert this discussion into the kind of racist free-for-all that characterises the commentary on the odious Bolt's articles.

On topic, I think it's obviously racist Australians like Ozzie (and Bolt) who give us all a bad name internationally, and bring our national character and flag into disrepute. They are just as bad in that respect as are the thugs responsible for the attacks on Indian students.

I wonder if ozzie (and indeed GIAO) have any sensible comments to make about Malcolm King's article? At this stage, it doesn't look like either of them has actually bothered to read it.

As other posters have pointed out, the entire higher education sector in Australia has essentially become one giant immigration racket, with our universities being shamelessly used as visa factories for foreign students lured here solely by the promise of permanent residency upon graduation.

As Dr. Peter Wilkinson wrote in his eye-opening book “The Howard Legacy: Displacement of Traditional Australia from the Professional and Managerial Classes” (Independent Australian Publications, 2007) Australia’s universities “market themselves as providing education but they know, and certainly their prospective applicants know, that they are marketing permanent residency visas.”

Wilkinson notes how the universities are effectively discriminating against Australian students by lowering the standard for full fee-paying foreign students, who can then apply for a visa on the basis of the conceded pass.

Not only do young Australians lose out, but Australia as a whole also suffers. We degrade the quality of our domestic degrees and hand out permanent residency to foreigners who lack the skills to be of any real benefit to the Australian economy. This cash-for-visa scam also provides an almost clear pathway to Australian citizenship, thus diminishing its value and meaning.

If the Federal Government wants to restore the shattered reputation of Australia's higher education sector, it needs to take some responsibility and clean up the mess it has created through its own education and immigration policies. Australian universities should not have to depend on full fee-paying foreigners for income, admission requirements and educational standards should not be lowered simply to put "bums on seats", and a degree from an Australian university should not be a ticket to permanent residency.

Indian students in this country are nothing but trouble and they are laughing at us. They use our fee paying education system as a guaranteed way to a PR visa. I have studied for 6 years with many Indian students who's only intention is to cheat and lie their way through a course, get a master's degree, get a PR visa then SATURATE whatever industry they target (mostly I.T.) with hopelessly unqualified retards.
Why do they get a freaking PR visa for doing 2 years study here? They have just been sold a service - that is all. If I buy a Japanese car for $30,000, does that give me the right to live and work in Japan?
Indians students, please go somewhere else. I do not want you here. I go into the city (Melbourne) and the sight of THOUSANDS of you make me want to PUKE :( You have all ruined my beautiful city.
Call me racist but it was people like my parents, that Cheryl is so fondly reminded of in ‘The Sullivans’ that built this great county. Not a lot of Pay-For-Stay trash.

Cheryl. "Actually ozzie, I can't find it either, so you're blowing it out of where the sun don't shine."
You know why that is Cheryl? It is because the wonderful Indian IT and logistics employees you have did not set the locale to Australia on your computer and you get U.S. results in your search.

Quick tip, ozzie: refusing to provide a link to your claimed evidence (because you know it's Andrew Bolt rubbish) and creating an obvious sock-puppet account (gday_mate) to manufacture fake agreement with yourself screams "I don't believe what I'm saying".

Sancho, quick tip: Please provide your evidence that I am a "sock-puppet account" when you post these accusations.
This really is a poor argument Sancho. You could easily post this to every forum on the internet when an arument does not sway your way.
What, you find it impossible to believe that two people in a country of 20 million can have similar opinions? I am not ozzi.
What, because two people are patriotic, any post made is really "an obvious sock-puppet account (gday_mate) to manufacture fake agreement with yourself..." - I am not ozzi.