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The Forum > Article Comments > The Vatican is not serious about abortion > Comments

The Vatican is not serious about abortion : Comments

By Max Wallace, published 20/8/2009

The Catholic Church has no intention of placing sanctions against parliamentarians who vote for legislation of which they disapprove.

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george, you seem to be suggesting that the catholic church is somehow divorced from politics. i'd suggest that e.g. some latin american and north american people would be very surprised to hear this. i take this to be the point of the article.

and they may not be the norm, but there is no shortage of catholic bishops who do directly seek to dictate to politicians, and catholic voters, on the voting on moral matters. is it unreasonable to question the inconsistency of the level and the content of such dictating?
Posted by bushbasher, Saturday, 22 August 2009 12:09:44 PM
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Sancho,
Thank you for the term “dissembling”. I shall add it to the zoo of sins (like “intellectual gymnastics“, “condescension“, “sophistry“, etc.) I am accused of when trying to argue a point beyond the level of e.g. runner.

Sancho, bushbasher,
All I tried - and apparently failed - was to explain that

morals and politics are not the same things, and though you can have morals without politics, you cannot have politics without morals,

by pointing to similar interrelations, like

science and philosophy (of science) are not the same thing and though you can do science without philosophy, you cannot do philosophy (of science) without knowing somenthing about science,

or like

mathematics and physics are not the same thing and though you can do (pure) mathematics without physics, you cannot do physics without mathematics.

In what extent and how this applies to particular political, philosophical or physical situations respectively is a not an easy question to answer, and the Catholic Church is not the only one who has to tackle it.

As to your more or less standard list of accusations against the Catholic Church - some of them fully justified, some of them justified to a point, some based on misunderstandings, some pure fabrications - these are different topics and even if I wanted - or felt qualified - to address them, I do not think it could be done objectively in the few words one has on this OLO
Posted by George, Saturday, 22 August 2009 9:37:22 PM
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Apologies for this delayed response.

Alan A: what you describe in your post is gift deductible status. This is distinct from tax-exempt status which any religious organisation in Australia is entitled to, if they satisfy the Tax Office's criteria for eligibility. All mainstream religions in Australia are now multi-billionaires mostly because of their tax-exempt status which even extends to tax-exempt profits from their investments and commercial businesses. I discuss this at length in my book, The Purple Economy. For a quick read, suggest you google my 'Render Unto Caesar' from The Australian last year.

Suzeonline: common law decisions allow abortion in Australia but it does not follow that abortion is legal in all circumstances. Victoria has just decriminalized abortion. A campaign is under way for NSW to follow suit. In QLD, a young woman and her partner have recently been arrested, charged and will face court for obtaining an RU-486 like drug from overseas to facilitate an abortion.

Max
Posted by anzsa, Sunday, 23 August 2009 11:32:33 AM
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George, you can add "dissembling" to whatever grouping of catchwords you please. That won't make it less apposite.

The question is simple: does the RCC represent the inviolable will of God, or is it an agnostic organisation which is entirely flexible with doctrine when it comes to protecting its corporate image?

You're dissembling by trying to turn the question into something broad and nebulous that can be dealt a vague answer - an answer which lets the Church off the hook for not censuring Catholic politicians and scientists who fail to oppose abortion provisions, but validates merciless punishment of the weak and powerless, like 9-year-old rape victims.

Would you care to have a stab at the real question, or just acknowledge that the Vatican is a den of hypocrites interested in nothing but their own interests?
Posted by Sancho, Sunday, 23 August 2009 2:24:13 PM
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Anzsa, I believe the decision to prosecute the couple in Queensland for buying the drug RU-486 is more to do with the importation of drugs not ordered by Doctors than the actual abortion issue itself.

If we had more liberal abortion laws all over this country, then these young people and others like them would not have to resort to unlawful activities to secure an abortion.

If the Catholic church did not try to force its religion-based morals on Politicians and the government, there would be more readily available contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and more readily available abortions.

Alternatively we could go back to the 'good old days' when Church decisions governed the Parliament and women resorted to back-yard abortions and died horrible deaths along with the baby.
Posted by suzeonline, Sunday, 23 August 2009 2:46:36 PM
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george, yes you're attempting to distinguish morals from politics. but it would be more convincing if you dealt less with metaphors and more with the actuality of the catholic church's muddy and intertwined dealings with morals and politics. it would also be a way to substantiate your suggestions of the author's hypocrisy.
Posted by bushbasher, Sunday, 23 August 2009 7:39:54 PM
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