>> He is pointing out that on the one hand, like all human beings they love, they care, they imagine, they enjoy beauty, they hope; yet on the other hand they de-value all this subjective life by their demand that only logical empiricism leads to truth, understanding and improvement in the world. <<

That's a false premise. Logical empiricism DOES lead to truth, understanding and improvement in the physical world. That's why only Sellick, runnner, and the Taliban are fighting for a return to the ignorance of the Dark Ages.

Where are the people claiming that love and beauty can only be appreciated through scientific observation? They don't exist.

Religion provides institutionalised comfort against the fear of death and uncertainty, but every claim the bible makes about the physical world has been proven wrong. Sellick is afraid that it will continue to demonstrate the falsehood of his beliefs, leaving him nowhere to hide. His reaction is to claim a Christian monopoly on the non-physical and intangible and denounce everyone who disagrees as subhuman.

Imagine what it means for Sellick if he's wrong. Imagine that atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, and new-age spiritualists feel the same depth and profundity that hardline Christians do. It leaves him with nothing. No serious contention for a young, flat earth, no geocentric universe, and no claim that Christians experience a deeper spritual life than anyone else.

Sellick is barricaded in the last tiny refuge available to the superstitious, while the real world bashes at the door. This article is a last, desperate attempt to justify remaining locked in a comfortable intellectual ghetto.

Glorfindel wrote: "Christians are enjoined to be salt and light, to give savour and set a desirable example to the world."

Dear Glorfindel,

Some Jews interpret the Chosen People idea to mean they are chosen to set an example for others.

I really think it is arrogant for anyone to think they are good enough to set an example to others. If you think you are, then you are guilty of the sins of self-righteousness and excessive pride.

Non-Christians may be living a more righteous life than Christians.

Non-Jews may be living a more righteous life than Jews.

Do the best you can, and let others do likewise.

Try to be as righteous as you can be and curb your arrogance.

snake: "Why do people consider atheists as also being 'faith based'?"

Let R be the set of faith-based-belief system i.e.

R = {islam,judaism,buddhism,...}

the empty set is a member of R, i.e. { } is a subset of R

so it must follow that atheism is a member of R, ie a faith-based system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set

Steph puts it very clearly in her blog.
http://stephiblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/atheist-faith/

If you do not want to have anything to do with faith-based belief system, be an agnostic

DOCTRINES are the real problem. The belief that our God and the story of our God is the right one. Why is it that if people want to believe in some kind of spiritual power in the Universe (God),that they don't just leave it at that?

This business of our group knows the truth and yours doesn't,because our holy men recorded history this way is just so typical of human schoolyard behaviour. Dispense with the holy men, the priests,the imans,the Popes. The Pope is just a silly old duffer,and yet you see all these stupid people who don't know the first thing about the man treating him like he's God himself. He's is nothing like a God in any way shape or form. No man on this earth is anything like a God if such an entity does exist so stop giving them the power to rule your lives.

They are no better than the witch doctors which I see are resurfacing again in their more primitive guise in some tribes in New Guinea and still exist in cultures in different parts of the world. They might wear modern robes today and be more modern in their schooling but they are one and the same. The more mankind thinks things have changed the more they stay the same. Just wearing a different disguise that's all.

Mark Twain said that "Faith is believing what you know ain't so".

Science flies you to the Moon but Religion flies you into buildings.

Perhaps a human being is somebody who is less inclined to see things as they really are, but more as how they think they should be.

A human being is a walking talking member of the human race, and is both a spiritual and a physical being. The spiritual spark in the carbon unit that we call a human, is what sets us apart from lower forms of life. Our spirituality makes us love and hate, worship God, or money, be fond of our children or violently disagree with them, but it is passion that makes us human.

As a society passion is essential, and anger is necessary. Unless something makes a person angry, it will be tolerated, and some things are intolerable. Sometimes as in the former Soviet Union, a philosophy is imposed that treats humans as chattels, and those that disagree are murdered, but it is still passion, and man’s inhumanity to man, is as much part of being human as compassion and love.

There has been an eternal war between love and hate, that the scientists have tried to define, and assisted one side to take out its vengeance on another but man’s humanity continues to break through. In man I include the females of the human race, though they often hate more and are more passionate in many ways than the men are.

There is an electricity that emanates from a human being, that creates a bond between two humans and when it fuses then there is a natural progression towards procreation. This passion is harnessed and directed by Christianity, and the collective prayers of a mass of people can be an enormous force for good. The internal God, the image of our maker in whom we are created, is what makes us human, and when that spark is extinguished, we cease to be.

The spiritual side of mankind is essential to humanity and defies science. Mind over matter is the defining characteristic of a human. Some people are able to harness that enormous power of the Holy Spirit, and it is what makes us free. When two or three come together, the Holy Spirit descends, and that is why a Court without a jury, cannot be a Constitutional court