Davidf:

You say "Theists with knowledge of the suffering inflicted by zealous evangelism also abhor it." Well, not quite - it depends on what you mean by zealous evangelism.

The history of forced conversions, under the unity of church and state, is an indelible stain on humanity - like the crimes of all totalitarian belief systems. It belies man's understanding and internalization of the VERY MESSAGE of Christ. Luther's antisemitism is vile. As a contemporary, evangelical Christian (though certainly not of the "Religious Right") I don't own that history. Christians are enjoined to be salt and light, to give savour and set a desirable example to the world. Conversion by the sword absolutely misses the point.

Zealous evangelism by Billy Graham or Peter Jensen or William Booth cannot be compared with past violence, or present-day jihadism in Islam.

Lithuania, Europe’s last pagan state, was converted to Christianity in 1386, almost 400 years after Kievan Rus’, when to keep the Teutonic Knights at bay, Lithuanian Grand Duke Jagiello and Polish Queen Jadwiga wed, creating a monarchial union beginning the Jagiellonian Era of Polish history. Before then, the Lithuanian-Russian state was a benign coexistence of paganism and Christianity.

At the time, three quarters of Lithuania's population was Russian. After the Mongols destroyed Kievan Rus' in 1237-40, Russian principalities predominated in Lithuania and the Lithuanians keenly borrowed from the culture of Kievan Rus’. Lithuanian princes preserved Russian customs and adopted the Orthodox religion, they married Russians, gave their children Russian names and often spoke Russian at home. Lithuanian princes spoke of themselves as the heads of a Lithuanian and Russian Principality, and Russian princes coexisted with Lithuanian princes in appanages under the Lithuanian Grand Prince. This is why the Lithuanian-Russian state was a real rival to Moscow as the candidate to re-gather the Russian people, and remained so until the Union of Lublin (1569) fused not just the thrones but the countries of Lithuania and Poland, imposing monolithic Polish Catholicism upon the Orthodox population.

This is a quirk of history, and doesn't really prove much. Nero (pagan) persecuted Christians viciously.

Not a single Christian poster here has clearly, succinctly and unambiguously stated:

That Peter Sellick regularly denigrates non-Christians,

nor

that non-Christians are as human and humane as Christians.

Now I'm not expecting anything like the above from Runner, however a phrase from the last line in Relda's (apparently) moderate post does indicate a certain sense of superiority of her Christian beliefs over that of others.

<<< God is in everything and everything is in God ...... give(n) embellishment from a Christian viewpoint. >>>

The above, perhaps, goes partway to answering Pelican's question as to whether we need a god or gods to be human. If "god is in everything" then s/he/it is present in us all irrespective of our individual beliefs. Which obliquely contradicts Sellick.

BUT

Then Relda goes and spoils it all by saying something specious like 'the Christian viewpoint giving embellishment' - unlike any other religion or philosophy, apparently.

OK, I accept that Christians believe their religion is the bee's knees of religions, but millions of other people don't and we get tetchy when told we are lacking in value or virtue for not being Christian. And, personally, I find the tacit support of Sellick's extreme views frankly hypocritical.

How do we define human being?
1. As the creators of the gods or god, old gods new gods, bad gods or worst gods! It is not easy to create a god, exept if you create a primative one!
2. As the animal which thinks first, plans first and after acts.
3. As the champion of all species on planet earth!
4. As the conquer of planet earth
5. As the only hope to save the live beigns of planet earth!
6. As the only live beign which can jump in his past and dream his future, who understand his present as a continues pass from his past to his fiture!
7. As the only live beign of the earth which can make deep changes (genetic engineering)on him self and his environment
8. As the crazy animal which is a permanent threat for him self and the whole life on planet earth.
9. As the explorer and colonist of the space!
10. As an arrogant animal which need a good leson but he did not find yet his teacher!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

LOL "God cannot be three persons in one"... couldn't read any more after that I had tears in my eye's and my belly hurt.

Fractelle and anyone else:

Every person is born with the potential to be fully human and humane.

I think Sells is implying this when he writes of seeing “the image of God in each human being”.

I admit that his writing is not always as clear as I would like. However, my reading of this article (and some others) is that he believes the “hard rationalists” who attack religion and faith per se apparently don’t realise that their philosophical standpoint is at odds with their real life. He is pointing out that on the one hand, like all human beings they love, they care, they imagine, they enjoy beauty, they hope; yet on the other hand they de-value all this subjective life by their demand that only logical empiricism leads to truth, understanding and improvement in the world.

By the way Fractelle, what do you understand by the word “embellish”? To me it means something like “to enrich with adornments”. I think Relda was simply saying that Paul Tillich would agree with the Vedic belief and express it in the language of the Christian tradition. I wouldn't call that "specious".

Ho Hum

It is a political move to award the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Tony Blair. But for the non-politicians one should not begrudge their receiving the medal.

"Collins's work in his highly active lab demonstrates that research emphasis, which is devoted to finding the genes that contribute to adult-onset, Type 2 diabetes."

"On July 8, 2009 President Barack Obama nominated him to the position of Director of the National Institutes of Health."

He probably did not receive a Nobel prize because he is a strong advocate of Christianity.