The Forum > Article Comments > Decline of American civilisation: are the dark ages coming? > Comments
Decline of American civilisation: are the dark ages coming? : Comments
By Rob Denehy, published 5/8/2009Trends in American culture, education and communications may be creating a perfect storm of ignorance.
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Posted by Brisbob, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 9:31:53 AM
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On a different but related note ... I am getting increasingly concerned by the intrusion of television into public spaces.
There is virtually no public indoor venue left where you can conduct your business or relaxation without the intrusion of one or more large TV screens - with or without the sound on. The list is long and growing: gyms, sporting clubrooms, banks, medical waiting rooms, hotels, restaurants, shopping malls, eateries, hairdressers, clothing outlets, service stations, government buildings, post offices and so on ... I often find myself in the bizarre situation of standing in a queue with one or more TV screens on around me, all with the sound off, but with an added soundtrack of piped music playing overhead (totally unrelated to the TV) and often another soundtrack of piped music competing from the mall outside the venue. And if that's not enough, there are people in the queue playing their ipods and I am forced to hear yet another thumping soundtrack of music emanating from their earphones. What's going on? Why has peace and quiet become public enemy number 1? Posted by SJF, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 10:00:01 AM
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Yes. There are many books etc which describe and chronicle this decline into a dark age. One I particularly like even has the words dark ages in the title.
http://www.morrisberman.com Although the process has been a long time coming, the author points to the Reagan years as to the point in time when the rot really started to become big time. Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 10:13:13 AM
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This dumbing down of everything in the USA was predicted by Alexis De Tocqueville in his classic Democracy in America.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 12:47:50 PM
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Rob I think you're looking at your fellow Americans as if all they do is watch TV and read newspapers, they don't anymore, and you haven't seemed to notice what they are doing.
There is so much available information now in the US and such a range of interests that most Americans are deep in other areas due to access to good information. They are not less intelligent, they are just not doing what older observers expect, they are simply too busy, not too dumb. Americans still rule the world and will continue to do so. Their innovation and drive is unchallenged by the rest of the world, who I do realize still sneer at them out of what .. jealousy? Posted by rpg, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 1:14:42 PM
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Had to spend much time waiting in hospital recently, waiting rooms are now dominated by large screen TV's, which had me searching out the few available magazines to flick through. Now, I would not have a problem if the screens were showing re-runs of the Glasshouse, or Dexter (which would be somehow appropriate given I was covered in blood) but it was crappy soapy stuff interspersed with commercials, or was that crappy soapy commercials interspersed with stuff. Whatever, I had a fractured skull in need of stitches and SILENCE.
If I want to dumb myself down I will do so on my terms, by falling and smashing my head just recently, but at least I wasn't being coerced into buying stuff I don't drink, eat or wear. Its that same conundrum of having a Macca's at the Children's hospital - whatha? I am not sure if the coming ages are dark, but they are certainly going to be very dim. Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 1:43:04 PM
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Isn't the ultimate example of what he's talking about that grotesque farce involving tormentors Jackie O and Kyle Sandilands and the young girl humiliated when stapped to a lie detector by her lunatic mother, into revealing her rape as a twelve year old?
Posted by paul walter, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 2:26:51 PM
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If the historian Caroll Quigley is to believed, civilizations fall, when those in power act to protect the status quo, after a period of troubles. I guess "not" letting the Banks collapse is an example in recent times. Albeit, we seemed have escaped this time. Yet, after several iterations of Corporate Socialism, the powerful protecting themselves, might not work.
That said, the West has two centres (Huntington), so we are well placed to meet challenges. The West and especially the US has been very innovative since the Enlightenment. If China or India are to take our place, then collectivism and deference to authority will need to put aside. Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 3:29:55 PM
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“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.”
Hesiod 700BC Posted by Kenny, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 5:15:28 PM
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I have a request to onliners.
Do they know of any culture which values learning? We read so much about "dumbing down" but I wonder whether the young people of to-day are any different from yesteryear. It's just that we know so much more about their lifestyles etc. Incidentally, life can be "examined" in many places; all that is required is some uninterrupted thought! Posted by Seneca, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 5:25:00 PM
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God's hand of blessing has been progressively lifting from the USA for some time. The Judeo-Christian ethic like here in Aussie has been eroded and replaced with godless humanistic dogma. Now we are seeing the fruit of the stupidity of turning from God. Can't say it wasn't foretold in the Scriptures. The infiltration of the godless humanistic high priests into the media has helped dumb down society. Calling the fantasy of evolution science is one example of Americas stupidity. The next fatal mistake they will make is to stop their friendship with Israel.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 5:28:35 PM
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I must apologise in advance for allowing Runner to side-track me, but reality must be allowed to prevail. The reason why the world is in such a mess at the moment is precisely because of the way the US of A has allowed itself to be seduced by the Zionists in Israel. Unless Obama gets Israel to treat the Palestinians with some dignity, we will continue to have 9/11's one way or another.
I suspect that the author is doing a dis-service to the youth of his country, as not all of them are "twittering" their brains off, even though it might sometimes seem like that to him. By electing an alternate government, it might well be that they are actually starting to take a greater interest in politics so that the pro-Israeli debacle is reversed. Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 8:26:21 PM
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*and don't let Rupert Murdoch buy all of your newspapers!*
Don't worry about Rupert. He's spent his life accumulating newspapers, only to now discover that the world has changed and they are losing money bigtime! The author makes the mistake of thinking that your average American was smart in the first place. Not so, for anyone who has been there, knows its a land of contradictions. America is the most religious of Western countries, hardly a sign of intelligence. The deep south can be a fairly primitive place, quite different to the North. America's strength is as a place of innovation and its not just Americans involved. Silicon Valley attracts the best brains from China, India, Australia, just about everywhere. Bring them together with venture capital and the result is huge potential. Few other places like this exist, anywhere on our planet. Rupert got done over by a couple of university students, who pioneered Google. Venture Capital backed them and the world has become their oyster. So far he does not know yet how to deal with the new reality. That kind of innovation is America's strength, not the intelligence of your average American. Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 10:04:20 PM
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Let's say that you went out in 1650s Britain to poll everyone's opinions on, say, the monarchy. Most of them wouldn't have been able to write, so you would have had to write them down. When you got to the Welsh and Scottish borders you would have to hire translators to convert what they told you into English. Up in the Highlands you would probably find a few people who had never even heard of the monarchy. But after four or five years you would have accumulated a goodly sample of opinions. And the vast majority of them would be mindless repetitions of the views of local authority figures. Just like today, but much worse. Which is why nobody in power ever bothered to listen to them back then.
But they're listening now. Because what HAS changed today is that the kind of people who were formerly kept quiet and out of sight are now participating; going online, sending emails, joining groups, writing comments, blogging, recording and videoing. And in the process they are getting smarter. In the fifteen years that I've been online there has been a slow but steady increase in the level of understanding and debate in most online fora. Given examples of reason and logic most people will learn from them and respond likewise (though there are always a few exceptions). The world's not getting dumber; it's just that the underclass is getting louder -- and smarter. Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 10:27:13 PM
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Jon J.
You make a strong point on the modern day apprceiation of debate. Olde Endland would have had to put down revolts with likes of William Wallace. In China the Mandate from Heaven was every few centuries taken by peasant revolutions. So long as the People speak and Powers listen, it is good. Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 6 August 2009 4:11:42 PM
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Why is it that whenever I ask a question online I never get an answer?
Repeat: Does anyone know of a contemporary culture other than Chinese which values learning? Posted by Seneca, Thursday, 6 August 2009 5:03:47 PM
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The decline of USA is inevitable
Afterall, the one time Anglo-Saxon majority, on whose values the wealth of the nation was built, are no longer the “majority”. However, don’t expect it any time soon, the fall of the British Empire started when those upstart colonists took it to themselves to deny King George his taxes and dumped the tea into Boston harbor. Yet it took another 150 years for the British Empire to finally expire. I would fully and reasonably expect the USA to present as a far more resilient society than the vestiges of a geographically fragmented colonial Empire. Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 6 August 2009 5:44:54 PM
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"In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present eduction conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds, and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk.
We shall not try to make these people, or any of their children, into philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen – of whom we have an ample supply. The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way." – John D. Rockefeller General Education Board (1906) Specifically - when devising the current US Education system, he also said he wanted a "Nation of Workers, not a Nation of Thinkers". The world is now reaping the benefits of that philosophy. Posted by wobbles, Friday, 7 August 2009 3:46:38 PM
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Seneca, for insight as to a plausible answer to your question, can I commend Fractelle's ealier posting?
Posted by paul walter, Saturday, 8 August 2009 5:39:54 PM
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Col Rouge: << The decline of USA is inevitable
Afterall, the one time Anglo-Saxon majority, on whose values the wealth of the nation was built, are no longer the “majority”. >> Wow Col - that's a blatantly racist statement, even for you. But you know that, don't you? Look at Col, everybody. Posted by CJ Morgan, Saturday, 8 August 2009 6:16:43 PM
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Paul Monk was interviewed by Geraldine Googue on her Breakfast Show on ABC1 Radio National on 8 August 2009. Monk became fascinated by the history of western civilization while he has at university and he remained so all his life. His most recent book is: The West in a Nutshell: Foundations, Fragilities, Futures. Monk told Geraldine Doogue that he retired from full-time work at the age of 38 in order to write, to reflect and to do research. He took a special interest, among his many interests, in the 16th century essayist Michel de Montaigne. Montaigne also retired at the age of 38 and is often regarded as the first essayist in European civilization. I took a special interest in Monk and his comments about Montaigne because: (a) I too, like Monk, acquired a fascination with the history of ideas and western civilization while I was at university(1963-1967) and (b) I too retired early, although not as early as either of these two writers and essayists. I was 58 and it was 2003 before I could give up both full and part-time work and devote myself to reading, independent research and writing—sometimes essays and often prose and poetry in other genres. -Ron Price with thanks to Paul Monk on ABC1, 8 August 2009.
Posted by Bahaichap, Monday, 10 August 2009 11:13:36 AM
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If he ever learns how to make a quid or a dollar from the internet, and he's working on it it have no doubt, then may God help us all! There'll be no refuge!