I've always liked the idea of a carbon tax. If we have to pay for the carbon cost of shipping goods that we could easily make ourselves, our manufacturing sector will revive and we will become much more self reliant as a nation. We may also learn to buy less, throw out less and insist on manufactured goods being repairable and durable, as they used to be. There is tremendous irony in our profligate, consume-til-you-kill-the-planet ways in the face of inevitable shortages, when compared to the thrift of our forebears in the face of plenty. The culprits? Entities such as the godforsaken Productivity Commission, even organisations such as the Australian Consumers Association, which see lower prices as the ultimate goal. If only the major political parties weren't the puppets of big business and big polluters we might see sensible measures such as a carbon tax.

If you want to get a handle on the carbon cost of shipping goods between countries, ponder this: container ships use heavy petroleum sludge as their fuel except when they are entering and leaving port. This sludge spews out the equivalent of 350,000 cars per ship per day.

Gas is never mentioned much in the emissions debate. Why not transition to gas for domestic housing and small scale industry. Gas may not be able to provide 100% energy needs in the home but for the heaviest user - hot water - gas is cleaner.

Match this with renewable energy sources - geothermal, solarthermal, wind etc should go some way to reducing emissions.

ETS will not do much to actually reduce emissions and acts only to shift money around.

There still may be the need for some coal generated electricity but emissions would be greatly reduced.

You said it all in the first line. Our emmisions are tiny. Why do you think the previous government refussed to sign up.

Now if we reduce our emmissions by 30%, that's only .0003 of the worlds emmissions.

Meanwhile, the countries that havn't signed up will have a field day with their unfair advantage in the world's market place.

I tend to agree that it's just another 'money grabbing' exercise.

A carbon tax is just another excuse for big government to involve itself in redirecting what would have previously been your personal discretionary income choices.

The idea that government, equipped with its legions of public service “jobs-for-life” morons, will find better solutions to “individual discretion” is a complete farce in the making.

Ultimately a carbon tax remains as I have often said

“Socialism by Stealth”

I am just surprised so many dummies are signing up for it, instead of resisting it.

Desmond “I vote for a carbon tax on individuals. Fuel hungry cars, oversized houses. They all add up to abuse of fossil fuels. The atmosphere needs cleaning up no matter what the concerns.”

Individuals = income tax
Fuel hungry cars = fuel excise tax
Oversized houses = council rates and stamp duty and land tax

In UK when they cleaned up Londons "Pea Soup Fog" they did it by banning coal fires and it did not need any taxation to do that ...

So we have taxes which suit your suggestions already..

carbon tax is just a new opportunity to rob you of your personal discretionary choices.

Effective environment solutions are what work and they do not need "Taxes" to get them implemented, just some "thinking politicians" and "thinking bureaucrats".

However such thinking would result in just more oxymorons.

I just spent some time with someone senior from the Dept of Climate Change at a conference.

We have no idea out here in the ordinary world of just how pervasive and all encompassing this is going to be. There will be a huge force of people who can enter every workplace to audit everything and interview people to discover the full extent of "Carbon Pollution" so they can levy charges. (rub hands together and snigger here AGW types, it's all going to plan!)

There will be infrastructure to fine, prosecute and investigate the community. Jobs are being created for investigators and "Secret Police", you might consider being an informer, oh silly me, of course you will be. The ALP do have a mandate to do this don't they? (52% of the vote)

The person I was with was dismissive of the business community and said they "knew" they were going to be "difficult" and so the DOCC was tooling up to deal with "the bastards". Great, there will immediately be adversarial action once this goes through, and they will have the right to enter any workplace and interview anyone. Anyone who says differently to anyone else what they think the carbon output is of that business is subject to investigation and prosecution. All interviews will be recorded and can and will be used in prosecutions as well as for historical tracking as will seized documents.

I know ALP voters and AGW types are happy about this, you've finally got your precious government going into action with a police state. (yay, at last they cry, all the AGW clubs can become informer cells!)

This has less to do with reducing pollution than it has with control and raising taxes, they are soooo looking forward to getting out there and getting the boot into those nasty employers and industries.

The rest of you will be monitored, they will have the right to monitor homes as well as businesses, you'll be begging for the Australia Card after this comes into play.

Class war anyone?

I am totally in favour of an AU card. With every conceivable statistic on it.
I have nothing to hide from anybody. I would like someone to give me an example of something that is so sacred that they cannot share.

People that make a mess should clean it up.
Pollution is another form of graffiti.
My car runs on gas, thats the best i can do at the moment.
I have 6 solar panels on the roof which is supplying 30% of my power.
Solar h/w with gas back up.
Unless you clean up your own act, you can't stand over anybody else