I'm very surprised that in all these posts there has been no mention of American imperialism.
I was just a couple of years too young to be personally involved in Vietnam, but I do vividly remember the teachings of my very pacifistic modern history teacher. Rightly or wrongly, the message was that America was not even slightly interested in Democracy in Vietnam, after all as SJF mentions, Eisenhower himself admitted Ho Chi Minh had the support of about 80% of the population.
America -then and now- fought for Capitalism, and to hell with national sovereignty. Diem was a dedicated asshole, and the yanks knew it.
At least in WW2, the Nazis and the Japanese at that time, were genuinely hateable savages, egregiously inhumane, so there was some moral justification for war.
I mean no disrespect to any diggers from any war; I have been proud to call mates several vets from Nam and from WW2.
None of them were too fussed on war, either.

Grim
My friend can you tell me your state? Do you remember your advise for democrats? I did! I want you more active arount there! You are good with litle bit strange ideas for a democrat but you are good!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

blairbar

‘Can you provide one example, SJF, of a government in Australia supporting a particular war being voted out and replaced by a new government opposing the war?’

Ahhh. Trick question!

Of course I can’t provide ‘one example’ of what you ask … for the simple reason that there has never been a time when the Australian electorate had a CHOICE between a government that supported a particular war and an opposition that didn’t.

There has never been a time when both the government and oppostion has been at odds about our involvement in a war. The Australian political establishment does not directly rely on the electorate for its survival. It relies on the media and big business to endorse its policies in the eyes of the electorate. If any government or opposition ever dared to oppose a war, especially on moral grounds, it would be hung out to dry.

Also, like you, I have the usual quota of war dead and injured in my family as well. The difference is that I don’t collapse in a moral-crisis heap at the thought that the hell they went through was not for the sake of a morally just cause.

Grim

‘I'm very surprised that in all these posts there has been no mention of American imperialism.’

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but the reason I don’t focus on American imperialism is because it doesn’t differ from any other form of imperialism. We’ve had thousands of years of empires raping and pillaging perfectly good cultures, and leaving a highly unstable political vacuum in their wake, either because these cultures have resources the empire needs or because they are strategically in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In this respect, Vietnam and the Transvaal are no different from Afghanistan or Iraq.

Time for me to finish my contribution to this thread.
"There has never been a time when both the government and oppostion has been at odds about our involvement in a war." I wonder why.
"If any government or opposition ever dared to oppose a war, especially on moral grounds, it would be hung out to dry." By whom?
I am sorry but for all its flaws I prefer governments in this country to be formed via the ballot box and reformed according to the democratic process. The fact is that the electorate in this country through their elected members had opportunities to withdraw our involvement in numerous wars but never did.
"The difference is that I don’t collapse in a moral-crisis heap at the thought that the hell they went through was not for the sake of a morally just cause."
Those persons who voluntarily enlisted acted on the basis of their moral beliefs. I have not made any comments re the morality or immorality of Australia's involvement in its various wars. I have merely commented on the different levels of popular support.

BARNEY MORGAN or is it FRANCIS the typing MULES thanks for the suggestions.

Well i picked one up a couple of times, weighed approx 4kg and was backed up by 30 amazing olympic sprinting heroes. Our elite sporting heroes have nothing on these little warriors. It certainly adds a whole new meaning to the 100 metre sprint.

I must say i pledged allegiance to the queen once and that pledge made no mention about oxymorons and mules.

Now morgan or should i say FRANCIS in your short sighted eyes what constitutes a good look for the ADF. I would be very interested to know after reading so many pathetic unintelligent posts.

SJF you stated "This is why we have to have an Anzac tradition, to create a network of romantic lies about soldiers defending our freedoms while depriving other countries of theirs."

Its clearly obvious you dont know s@#t from clay as to the roll our ADF is currently playing around the world. Our ADF doesnt just go and fight wars it conducts humanitarian work within the war zones with their hands tied behind their backs. They win the hearts and minds of the people.
The members of the ADF have time and time again won the battles, have won the hearts and minds of the people to have lost all their blood sweat and tears to the gutless politicians that run away with their tales between their legs. Then they return to read and listen to rubbish from individuals such as yourself.

Could you historians please do us all a favour and learn to read or at least have someone read the book to you.

I would have to agree with Blairbar and it appears we have both come to the same conclusion that its impossible to educate an idiot.

A soldiers five.

Duty First

One of the really disappointing things about OLO is the way it attracts people who wear as a badge of courage their inability to put a coherent argument together in a form of words which make sense.
I'm sure that there was a point in that rant AMAZED but it was lost on me.