Hello Trav,

I gained from your early post a claim Hitler denounced Catholism in his youth. He was an alter boy.

I haven't read of table table in any history or seen reference to it in any TV documentary. However I did check the Internet and certainly saw secondary references to matters contrary to his historical verifiable remarks.

I see little reason why Hilter would have been a closet atheist. He admired the strength of the Jesuits and would have seen the Jews in opposition to Jesus. Of course, Jesus was not a Christian. However, he ministered to the Gentiles. He usually spoke is mind publicly.

Regarding one's memberships, all secular humanists I know do not below to Stalin's association, yet Christians, harsh Irish Priests, Ivan the Terrible, and the many, many mass murders we know throughout history do belong to The Chistrianity Association. Christians are necessarily affiliated with other Christians, who have committed horrific crimes.

From the little I know about Pol Pot, his main aim was to take civilzation back the year zero. Like the Christians, he was a mass killer of Muslims

I get a little tired of people saying Hitler was a Christian. He probably murdered more Christians than the Romans. As far as I know it is about 500,000 including Bonhoeffer.

Living dead, the difference between a citizen and a subject, is probably the baptismal font. Citizens are owned as slaves by a State, whereas a subject is a freeman under Almighty God. The Magna carta was enacted for Freemen, not slaves, and the New Testament Gospels make freemen, of erstwhile slaves. That is why I love Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second. They should print the Coronation Oath 1688 ( Imp) in the Constitution.

I am also getting a bit ticked off at the lumping of Continental European Christians, with the English Protestant Christians. The difference was that the English, except for a few episodes where the King was a closet Roman Catholic, had adopted the New Testament as their Constitution, from 1215, and as legislation from 1297 in the Magna Carta. The Protestant Christian concepts of individual freedom to both worship and go about their daily affairs free of molestation by the State, were central features of their system of government.

When a State gets Judges and Magistrates like Hitler did, Stalin did, Mao did, and Mugabe has, and Australia has since 1953, then it is on the slope to totalitarianism. The humanity guaranteed by the United States Constitution, is reflected in the institution of universal jury trial. It was a total breakdown of Christian democracy, in Ireland that allowed so many kids to be molested and assaulted. This happened in a republic remember.

The Irish and Italians had a healthy disrespect for Priests. That was how they survived and it was only the hatred for England that fuelled the Roman Catholic domination of Ireland. Now the English are gone, Irish literature reflects the diminishment of the Church. The Roman Catholic Church were the leaders of the push for independence. However their Priests don’t breed and have families. A family man is regarded by the Protestant Christians as essential for pastorship. Humanity demands that authority be judged.

St. Peter- the Vatican Unbeliever says this:

"The humanity guaranteed by the United States Constitution, is reflected in the institution of universal jury trial. It was a total breakdown of Christian democracy, in Ireland that allowed so many kids to be molested and assaulted. This happened in a republic remember".

Perhaps St. Peter has not heard about the prisoners of this nation-state, which has no Sovereign to guide it, and the total breakdown of the Magna Carta he holds so dear? No sign of a jury trial for these but maybe that's because they are Muslims, and so 'deserve' whatever the Xtians can throw at them?

Just as Hilary has a tendency to 'mis-spoke', St. Peter the Unbeliever may have a tendency to 'mis-hear'.

And then there is the Furphy below that line, concerning Eire and the Six Counties,that great British colonial outpost, where rampant ignorance courtesy of the Vatican, and a total lack of secular schools until just this year, plus a little oppression from the head of the English Protestant Church St. Peter so adores, ensured Europe retained a peasant class well into the late 20th century.

Freed from the shackles of Roman ignorance by the equally out-of-control forces of pure capitalism, not to mention massive subsidies from England and the EU, and a helping hand from the magic of tax-rorting, this sorry dot-in-the-Atlantic looked, briefly, as if it were entering the modern Western world at last.

Maybe the whole of Ireland could become a prison camp for holding all the Vatican's priests in a 21st century rebirthing of an Irish national purpose?

I'm not sure the revelations of typical priestly behaviour in Ireland has anything to do with it being a republic though, another Furphy of monarchists keen to keep God's messengers in place. It has more to do with monopoly power and the unquestioning nature of 'faith'.

PtB

I asked you and others who share your religion a question, that you haven't had the courtesy to reply.

So I will ask again, but rephrase it a little.

Do you regard all nonChristians as the "walking dead" as Sellick claims we are?

If so, why?

Fractelle...it's far worse than you have imagnined for the 'walking dead'.

Only 100,000 will make it to Heaven, so even amongst Xtians there will be a great deal of sifting-and-sorting, while Sells and St. Peter are selected into the Heavenly boot camp and others, equally pious faith driven souls, will be told to step into the eternal flames along with the rest of the world's sinners.

Rough justice you may say.... but it is already too late. The quota must have been reached by now, just with all those Hillsongsters in Sydney and Brisbane, never mind Family Jensen's flock, or the Pell Pilgrims, or John Howard's favourites, the Brethren.

Naturally, all of St. Mary's of Brisbane will be walking candles... at least light will not be a problem 'down there'.

Ah, the scattergun approach to discussion, PtB.

>>I get a little tired of people saying Hitler was a Christian<<

It may be tiring for you, but it is true.

Trav made a brave attempt to divert attention to this unpalatable (for Christians) fact by referring us to "Table Talk".

It is far from being a reliable record, unfortunately. Martin Bormann was in charge of the documents, and is on record as saying "Any transcript which is not quite apposite will be re-checked by me"

Bormann was virulently anti-Catholic.

It is clear, though, that Hitler disliked the organized church. But he adored Jesus, to the point of insisting that he was not Jewish, but Aryan.

"...it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul... the Galilean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression." Table Talk p.76

Cute.

>>Citizens are owned as slaves by a State, whereas a subject is a freeman under Almighty God.<<

That could work equally well the other way around, you know. "Subjects are owned as slaves by a State, whereas a citizen is a freeman under Almighty God." Which tells us something about its relevance.

>>I am also getting a bit ticked off at the lumping of Continental European Christians, with the English Protestant Christians.The difference was that the English, except for a few episodes where the King was a closet Roman Catholic, had adopted the New Testament as their Constitution, from 1215, and as legislation from 1297 in the Magna Carta <<

PtB, check your facts.

First of all, when Magna Carta was signed, England was Catholic.

And remained so for another 237 years

Furthermore, the "New Testament" was never adopted as England's Constitution. There never has been a written Constitution.

And the New Testament has never been "adopted as legislation" in England.

We have had this discussion on numerous occasions before, and you have never provided any justification for your position.

Not once.